Census

[Matthew9969]

I have a question about the national census that's going on here in America. It's basically just counting the number of people in each state so the government will know how much funding each state will get based on the amount of people in that state. My jw mom said she isn't going to fill it out because jw's are no part of this nation.

Is this just a extreme personal view of hers, or do all jw's think this way about this subject, so no jw will be allowed to fill out a census form?

[Melinda Mills]

Why did you have to post it.  Just read Romans chapter 13 and see that Christians are supposed to cooperate with the Government where they live.  They are not uncooperative or ungovernable, they are spectacles to angels and men - in other words good examples.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

My jw mom said she isn't going to fill it out because jw's are no part of this nation.

Sadly, her viewpoint is fanatical. Perhaps one of the questions will be: What religion do you belong to. Then she may not deny the truth, give a testimony, and say she is a JW. :))

[Rozz]

Yes I agree with what others have said true we are no part of the world when it involves political issues. We model Jesus but we do pay taxes and receive services so the census is an official document to ensure the monies are distributed appropriately.  Yes we fill out the census it doesn’t conflict with worship. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

7 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

have a question about the national census that's going on here in America. It's basically just counting the number of people in each state so the government will know how much funding each state will get based on the amount of people in that state

Um, maybe the census is to see how many people per state to 'cull' using the virus. The government may be assessing the cost of keeping so many people alive.  Having read the 'political' info about China etc, it would not be so unbelievable for America to kill their own people. 

[Rozz]

Actually if the government wants us to take the count to figure information for the census,we comply. The  virus Is another situation if it’s a hidden agenda we have no control over that.  However we have choices whether to take the test, shot , we are very concerned about our health and well being.  Basically  we stand neutral. The government uses the currency to do illegal and legal things that’s not Christians concern. We look forward to Gods heavenly government in the very near future  that will serve righteous and justice for ppl that are rightly disposed. Until that time we remain obedient to the laws of the land as long as they don’t conflict with our God Jehovah

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Rozz said:

The government uses the currency to do illegal and legal things that’s not Christians concern.

 

8 hours ago, Rozz said:

Until that time we remain obedient to the laws of the land as long as they don’t conflict with our God Jehovah

It is interesting how we sometimes put ourselves in contradictory positions. WTJWorg is expert on this field, and successfully teaching members how to act in that manner. 

The best example is "human rights". WTJWorg and CCJW are so fast to go to Courts and going against "governments" when some law of some land limits actions of WT organization. This particular "human right" is of "Christians concern" but in other cases it seems how other things are not of "Christian concerns" (for example ecology, poverty, social problems of many kinds, etc). Social activity to make this life and this world to be better is not of "Christian concern" because, as WTJWorg explained, this World is "sinking ship" and why to rescue what will sink?   

On contrary, whole world from Adam and Eve time is "sinking ship", so it is interesting that God find interest and have concern to save this "sinking" World from ruin.

 

[Matthew9969]

17 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Um, maybe the census is to see how many people per state to 'cull' using the virus. The government may be assessing the cost of keeping so many people alive.  Having read the 'political' info about China etc, it would not be so unbelievable for America to kill their own people. 

The census is something the government does every 10 years. Somewhat similar to what the Israelites did in the old testament.

[John Houston]

Did not Joseph go,to,the city of his birth for a 'census at the time of Jesus' birth?

[Melinda Mills]

I agree with what is stated by Rozz above and will add some further research.

Christians pay taxes for services rendered by governmental authorities.

(Matthew 22:15-22) ¹⁵ Then the Pharisees went and conspired together in order to trap him in his speech. ¹⁶ So they sent their disciples to him, together with party followers of Herod, saying: “Teacher, we know you are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and you do not seek anyone’s favor, for you do not look at the outward appearance of people. ¹⁷ Tell us, then, what do you think? Is it lawful to pay head tax to Caesar or not?” ¹⁸ But Jesus, knowing their wickedness, said: “Why do you put me to the test, hypocrites? ¹⁹ Show me the tax coin.” They brought him a de·narʹi·us. ²⁰ He said to them: “Whose image and inscription is this?” ²¹ They said: “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” ²² When they heard that, they were amazed, and they left him and went away.

Cooperating with authorities re the census

 *** it-2 pp. 766-767 Registration ***

At the Time of Jesus’ Birth. Two registrations are mentioned in the Christian Greek Scriptures as taking place after Judea came under subjection to Rome. Such were not merely to ascertain population figures but, rather, were mainly for purposes of taxation and conscription of men for military service. Concerning the first of these we read: “Now in those days [c. 2 B.C.E.] a decree went forth from Caesar Augustus for all the inhabited earth to be registered; (this first registration took place when Quirinius was governor of Syria;) and all people went traveling to be registered, each one to his own city.” (Lu 2:1-3) This edict of the emperor proved providential, for it compelled Joseph and Mary to journey from the city of Nazareth to Bethlehem in spite of the fact that Mary was then heavy with child; thus Jesus was born in the city of David in fulfillment of prophecy.—Lu 2:4-7; Mic 5:2.  End Quote

 In accordance with Proverbs 21:1 God can use kings or those in authority to carry out his will as we see in Micah 5:2.  It was foretold 500 years before the birth of Jesus that he would be born in Bethlehem, although Mary and Joseph were from Nazareth. That verse says: (Proverbs 21:1) “A king’s heart is like streams of water in Jehovah’s hand. He directs it wherever He pleases.” God can use rulers who don’t fear him to carry out his will wittingly or unwittingly. Note that Joseph and Mary obeyed and undertook to travel many miles even though she was heavy with child. This meant a trip that, on present roads, covers a distance of about 150 km (93 mi) through hilly country. 

So we have two pre-Christian servants of God who saw the need to cooperate with the census. They had to travel, pay taxes and comply with the census.

Now this is Paul speaking to Christians (including Jews and proselytes who had become such) who by that time were no longer under the Law of Moses (the Law having being fulfilled by Christ’s death).

Romans 3: 24 So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ, so that we might be declared righteous through faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. 
 

 (Romans 13:1-14) “Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. ² Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. ³ For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; ⁴ for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword. It is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad. ⁵ There is therefore compelling reason for you to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of your conscience. ⁶ That is why you are also paying taxes; for they are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose. ⁷ Render to all their dues: to the one who calls for the tax, the tax; to the one who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to the one who calls for fear, such fear; to the one who calls for honor, such honor.”

Add to that the census which is of a similar nature to calling for the tax, calling for fear, or compliance, honour, etc.  We are in no position to look into their minds to see what they are using the taxes for or what they are going to achieve with the census.  It is their right to call for it if they wish.

 And that is all I am going to say about that.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Before anyone here sells anyone short, there is no right or wrong answer

 

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Scriptural point is, we obey all authorities, but when those authorities are just doing things the right things for the greater “good” of the people.

 

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

When government does a census, what is the government ideology behind that census taking?

 

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Therefore, it would be a personal choice if a person lives in a geographical area where government injustice is plainly seen. Does that make that person extreme? NO!

 

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Is it wrong to take a census? No, when it doesn’t undermine the will of God.

 

7 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Add to that the census which is of a similar nature to calling for the tax, calling for fear, or compliance, honour, etc.  We are in no position to look into their minds to see what they are using the taxes for or what they are going to achieve with the census.  It is their right to call for it if they wish.

 And that is all I am going to say about that.

CC for sure made interesting points on subject. But, because many of you are part of JW congregation, you are under pressure. From one side WTJWorg doctrine is about how members have to be complete "neutral" toward "worldly things" and to not even express personal opinions about secular subjects. Because that is not of your "concern", that is what belong to "worldly people". JW members don't want to be involved, nor intellectually neither physically in matters of this world. 

According to "official viewpoint" of WTJWorg, members are not allowed to participate in any "social improvement" or in any activity that is seen as "worldly activity" from perspective of JW doctrine and policy. On other side GB leadership  allowed participation of their own representatives in "worldly institution" aka OSCE and have some sort of political involvement and participation and contribution to this "old system of things" in "improving" political and civil freedoms. If we speaking about "human rights" or "civil rights" they are in fact "political rights", because secular governments create "politic /policy" which make it possible to have this and that "freedom" or "rights".

If JW members found his free will to agree or disagree with some movement of "secular authorities" (as CC recommended) than they are also entitled to agree and disagree with GB politics too. Because this both "authorities", one is "secular" and other is "spiritual" are in subject to same "supreme authority" of god, according to Bible interpretations. By obeying god instead/over "GB" or "secular government" JW people with own "free judgement" would/will be in better position to prove "neutrality" in next/greater sense of the meaning of that word - to be "independent" from influence of other people.   

[Matthew9969]

Here is some info if you die hard conspiracy theory governing body worshiping jw's. I dare you to research outside of the watchtower.

https://www.census.gov/library/video/2019/2020-census-what-is-the-census.html