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[TrueTomHarley]

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

After reading your text, my conclusion would be that all are brainwashed no matter are they 24/7 or 2/2. You are sure how students are deceived because mount of hours in class, but i will say that WT education program is much effective because they have same result (brainwashed) with only 4 hours a week :))))))))))))))     

I think you interpret holding a different opinion as yourself as being 'brainwashed. At 2/2 with total 4 hours per week, all the rest of the time carrying on as normal? You're joking!

 

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"How could anybody be so stupid? No"

Yes. If you claim you were brainwashed at only 4 hours per week, you only testify to how stupid and helpless you think you are. Why not just say you changed your mind, reassessed your goals? I have done that. Everyone has. People change their minds. There is no shame in saying that. But if you carry on that the only reason you could have reversed a decision you made is that you were brainwashed - surely that is pathetic.

Look, I didn't say they were brainwashed in college. I said college splendidly meets one classic criteria of brainwashing: separate the victim from all that is familiar. Ones who later come to regret their college time seldom say they are brainwashed, despite that 24/7 criteria. How much more ridiculous to say it happened with 4 hours per week.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

2 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How much more ridiculous to say it happened with 4 hours per week.

College does not propose that education there is vital to 1.) please the Almighty God, and  2.) if you don't, you DIE.

A BIG carrot, and a BIG stick ....... works better.

Of course, SOME brainwashing is necessary and good, and some INTENDS to be but fails along the way .. and some is evil.

Infinite Variety.

[b4ucuhear]

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The context was use of the Internet.

Nice catch JWI, I didn't see that. "Sign that boy up."

IRONY: the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of it's literal (intended) meaning; a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory impulses; an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been expected.                               INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY: characterized by a biased, dishonest attitude ie. relevant facts and information are purposely omitted when such things may contradict one's hypothesis; facts are presented in a biased manner and twisted to give misleading impressions to to support one view over another. 

The "irony" here is that intellectual dishonesty was used to support the contention that the original quote was intellectually dishonest. It is noteworthy and fair to note that Srecko did acknowledge his error. Not so great was still trying to spin it into a negative right after...

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

after we make you you safe you will be saved

 

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"We are not inspired, we can err in instructional and doctrinal matters ...."   

That is a point well worth considering, especially when the GB start making predictions of things that haven't happened yet. It's fair enough when they admit that "this is our understanding at this time, but that could change." It's another thing entirely when they present uninspired predictions as fact and become dogmatic about it. That plays right into the hands of those who quote Deuteronomy to make the "false prophet" accusation. With what seems to be an almost 100% failure rate, I would say: "it's time to lose the crystal ball guys." True we have said in the past that "prophecy is best understood after it has happened," but really, we don't even get that right, making changes to our understanding even a century later. If it was Jehovah's will that we go "beyond the things written" and start predicting details of how things will work out, he would have given us a miraculous ability to see the future as he had with his prophets in the past. Our mandate is to preach the good news of the kingdom, teach and make disciples. We can commend our brothers on the GB for overseeing and accomplishing this great task. But please, enough already with the predictions. It makes it hard to defend our position as doing a prophetic work with a straight face - especially with the dismal track record we have established and the selective definition of a prophet opposers would like to impose on us. 

[TrueTomHarley]

The annual meeting entertained briefly the notion that angels, too, may have played a role in the building - I think they said in legal and safety issues, for example.

That was a novel thought - angels participating! With only minor imagination, one can imagine the following heavenly scene, in the spirit of that conference to fool Ahab:

Brother Wingedwarrior strode into the room and asked for his daily assignment. The other angels looked strangely relieved, but the one in charge looked sheepish.

Finally, he said: "Brother, your assignment today is to monitor @James Thomas Rook Jr." (give me artistic licence here. I admit this is a stretch)

"Aw, C'mon!!" Wingedwarrior cried in disgust, throwing his clipboard on the table so violently that it spilled the coffee urn, splashing angels nearby, even soaking their wings, which are not supposed to get wet. It was an accident, but since angels are perfect, several in the room looked at him suspiciously. "Why me? You guys  have it in for me!"

"Look, brother, you know how it is. We drew lots. It fell on you."

"Well, it's a dumb system, anyway, named after some loser who didn't know enough to get out of Gay City! I'm not going to let it dictate my life!"

"See here, Brother WW, we all must make sacrifices. Of course, you'd rather work with someone appreciative - we all would - but many assignments in God's service are lowly - and some are downright disgusting. As you know, James bought that huge warehouse in Mt. Moron, New York, and he has converted it into a graphics studio. We hear he plans 400 releases in the upcoming year. Someone has to watch him. Just look at the idiot stuff he has displayed. It's hard to believe he is an adult:

12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

These are my favorites ... if you disregard the "Tight Pants Tony" comedy.

 

 

 

"Think of the love you'll be showing to God. Think of the love for your brothers. Think of the love for those creatures below whom the Word likes," the head angel continued smoothly.

If they lay the 'love' stuff on long enough, they can get you to do anything. At last, Brother WW grumbled:

"Alright, alright, I'll do it. Where is a hard hat?"

"Ha ha! Brother WW, you are too funny. We are spirit creatures and we have no need of har..."

"LOOK, YOU ASSIGNED ME TO MONITOR JTR!!!! NOW, WHERE IS A HARDHAT?!!!!"

For one brief moment, the head angel seemed taken aback. Presently he murmured: "We'll look about. They may be one kicking around here somewhere."

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

If it ever comes to pass that I take up ALL the room living rent free in your head, TTH .... your head and face will morph to look like MINE!

You didn't need all that hair, anyway!

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

People change their minds. There is no shame in saying that.

But if you carry on that the only reason you could have reversed a decision you made is that you were brainwashed - surely that is pathetic.

I agree, there is no shame to change minds. I show you that i feel no shame for my change  

Only reason? No. :))))))

Every of us can be brainwashed (deceived - in this religion matter)  and claim how that it is not case with him, and not able to see that in fact it is the case :))))))) Will lunatic ever confess that he is crazy? ahahahaha

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of it's literal (intended) meaning

Using written and spoken words is not always easy to express one's thoughts. Not even between people who speak the same language. In the lexicon of each nation there are synonyms and antonyms. There are single and multiple words. There are metaphors and metonymy. There are homonyms, homographs and homophones. And much more.

In order for the two speakers ( interlocutors) to be able to understand one another, much has to be in common when using the same language. Both must know exactly how to convey the thought. Both must know one meaning or more meaning of the same word and how to use it in particular kontext. Both must know how to understand the thought. And the thought behind the word. Both must know why there is a misunderstanding and how to resolve the misunderstanding. The problem of interpretation of what is written or pronounced certainly exists in mutual communication.

 One example of this is WT's practice of turning the blame on the 1975 teachings and interpretation on the followers. A similar thing happens with some other instructions. Not only with so called "prophecies", or GB wishes that their interpretation on Bible text looks like "prophecies", thinking (process of thinking) which should to be advanced and sees things that will just happen (around the corner :)))). 

6 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

intellectual dishonesty was used to support

I will continue on "dishonesty" with this example, and there is much more. Everyone knows how starting the topic of "the cross" in the Reasoning book. I will copy/paste  this part from Reasoning book; 

Reasoning from the Scriptures, page 89, Cross, JWorg library;

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux(from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

BUT GO TO ORIGINAL TEXT and see dropped text. WT put dots (...) instead text.

The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek speaking countries.

Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole and this always reminded the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment a transverse piece of wood was commonly added; not, however, always even than..... The following text continues, describing the types of crosses and the ways in which the convicts were murdered...,others extending their arms on a patibulum. There can be no doubt, however, that the latter sort was the more common and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood. But this does not itself determine the precise form of the cross; .... The following text continues by describing 3 types of crosses.  —Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376

 

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

note that Srecko did acknowledge his error. Not so great was still trying to spin it into a negative right after...

"after we make you you safe you will be saved"

Thanks Hear. In this example i show simply and plain that hearer of somebody talk can interpret his words as he, the listener understand it. And that understanding or interpretation must not be wrong in my case, as you suggest (if i understand you correctly ). In fact all message about apostate and internet give me conclusion that i am rightly interpreting all elements of his speech, talk on TV and that is - context, words, meaning, message, nonverbal speech,  gestures, mimics, facial expressions, tone of voice and word choice. 

I am stupid, but not too much :)))))))))      

[TrueTomHarley]

On 10/7/2017 at 3:58 AM, INTREPID TRAVELLER said:

I also endured Detention in Military prison for 14 months Srecko - I don't regret the experience because I also learned a lot about myself and about others while in prison. 

But we found out later that brothers are allowed to take alternative service now ......"New Light" . 

This is an organization that enjoys having people being persecuted because it "markets" their goals ~ 

If someone from the 1950's was resurrected and began to complain how science had taken advantage of him - depriving him of a flat screen color TV whereas it hypocritically bestowed them upon later generations, would you say he had a valid point?

Time marches on. New things come to light. Positions evolve. It happens everywhere. It is not a plot to work you over.

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I will continue on "dishonesty" with this example, and there is much more. Everyone knows how starting the topic of "the cross" in the Reasoning book. I will copy/paste  this part from Reasoning book; 

Seven years ago an evangelical preacher researched and published the truth about the cross. It was a sensation. ABC went on and on about the article. If Jehovah's Witnesses had said it (as they have) the article would not line the bottom of their birdcage. It matters little what is said - what matters is who says it.

http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/11/did-jesus-die-on-a-cross.html

 

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

There are metaphors and metonymy. There are homonyms, homographs and homophones. And much more.

When I mentioned this to Brother Madonia from the old country, he exclaimed: "Onomatopoeia!"

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

38 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Seven years ago an evangelical preacher researched and published the truth about the cross. It was a sensation. ABC went on and on about the article. If Jehovah's Witnesses had said it (as they have) the article would not line the bottom of their birdcage. It matters little what is said - what matters is who says it.

It is a crying shame that we whose core theology is true and wholesome have lost ALL credibility because of the 85% drivel that surrounds it.

If we had not surrounded TRUTH in a swaddling cloth of drivel and fantasy, we would not have to spend 25 man-years knocking on doors to get ONE convert who will stay his whole life.

We would not have to spend billions of hours knocking on THEIR doors .... a billion of them would be knocking on OURS.

[Srecko Sostar]

13 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It matters little what is said - what matters is who says it.

Yes Tom and in this issue you exercise this method on me. I gave you real example supported with evidence. But no, you turn, spin that and told that it is not matter because i said that :))))

In fact WT said incorrect "story" in Reasoning book and left impression on readers how this conclusion about stake is done by "worldly" writer.  Who have salts in head will see.  

Next thing. Cross or torture stake, both looks paganic, and have source in pagan customs and symbolism. Both looks like penis. So if you think you win it is far from that. Religious people who advocates this or that version must first accept main thing about symbols and objects inside customs and traditions they have in own religion - to not worship nothing and nobody but God. So, you as JW not worship cross, but in the same time members and  Society using also idolatry symbols that must not have been, originated in old pagan religion. But WT creating own modern paganism started with watchtower drawing (picture) on magazines and memos, flags with JWorg logo and others. Not to mentioned rejected crown and cross in the beginning published magazines.  So please why giving lessons to others while in same time doing the same blasphemy?