Babylon Will Rise Again

[TrueTomHarley]

What do you do when you spy the woman of wickedness trying to climb out of the ephah jar? (Zech 5:7)

You grab the brazen hussy by the scruff the neck and boot her back down into the jar from where she came. (taking care in these volatile times that you do not get accused of harassment) Then you summon the two with wings to ship her back to Babylon.

Maybe it was a reminder to the Jews who had just come from there to check their own ephah jars - or even their shoes, lest they had tracked something in. 

Incidentally, present at our meeting was an Iraqi man who has responded to the Arabic group. The actual  Babylon means something to him, unlike to anyone else. He says it is the site of a festival each year, with music and food. Also that there is the slogan everyone knows: 'Babylon will rise again.'

[TrueTomHarley]

On Facebook, one of my countless friends said: "Hussein's rebuilt Babylon was smashed to bits in the first gulf war. A Syrian brother told me the local Iranian word on the street was basically "Why did they bomb Disneyland?"

[Witness]

On 12/18/2017 at 7:13 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

What do you do when you spy the woman of wickedness trying to climb out of the ephah jar? (Zech 5:7)

You grab the brazen hussy by the scruff the neck and boot her back down into the jar from where she came. (taking care in these volatile times that you do not get accused of harassment) Then you summon the two with wings to ship her back to Babylon.

Ahhh, the “woman of wickedness” is not one person as you would like to believe, or is someone I think you believe I may intimately know.   I can tell you (but know you don’t want to hear from me) that the “woman of wickedness” is a promise just as all covenants are represented by a “woman” in the Bible. There is the “mother” covenant of death and the “mother” covenant of life.  Isa 28:15; Gal 4:22-28  These promises formulate within the heart of an individual.  It is the residing spirit of the heart and not well detected on the outside.  Matt 23:27,28; Rev 18:2; Isa 34:15  This covenant is the result of the curse written on the flying scroll.

“I will send out the curse,” says the Lord of hosts;
“It shall enter the house of the thief (John 10:1,9,10)
And the house of the one who swears falsely by My name. (“Jehovah’s organization”/Isa 43:10)
It shall remain in the midst of his house
And consume it, with its timber and stones.” Zech 5:4 (Prov 2:10-22)

The “ephah” that the woman sits in is a measurement of grain.  Grain symbolizes spiritual “food”.  John 6:51,57; 12:23,24  Interestingly, an ephah is “a dry measure of quantity, equal to 3 seahs”  - “a measure of flour or grain”.  Three “measurements” of spiritual food – a full ephah – are found coming from “out of the mouth of the dragon (1) out of the mouth of the beast (2) and out of the mouth of the false prophet (3).  For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty”.  Rev 13:14

These are not kings found in the political system of the world, but anointed ones.  Rev 1:5,6; 1 Cor 4:8; Rev 5:10; 10:11  These are whom God has a case against.  Isa 41:21-29

KJV  - “And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance (as “seen”) through all the earth.  (“the truth”)

w13 11/15 pp. 21-25   “Through his organization, Jehovah provides an abundance of spiritual food to the whole association of brothers worldwide.”

 ^“And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.  And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.”  Zech 5:7,8

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me,^[a] “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot (false prophet Rev 13:11) who sits on many waters, ² with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.  The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.  And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.  Rev 17:3-6

 ^“Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison  and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. ⁹ They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast (organization) and the false prophet (harlot) are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  Rev 19:7-10

“Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?  And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.” Zech 5:10,11 

Rev 22:3 - And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 

Rev 18:4-8

 

[The Librarian]

@tromboneck  At least in the JW section of this .ORG website I try to keep people from being rude.

Please stick to addressing people's statements rather than attacking the person.

If you don't like someone's lengthy response then just simply state why you disagree, ignore them or add your better explanation. 

oh.. BY THE WAY..... "Heck" is a euphemism.  We are not allowed to use foul language. 

 

The Catholics or the Jewish in their categories are always watching ..... they might have different viewpoints on matters as well.

Don't expect everyone to walk away with the same understanding as you might have.

[TrueTomHarley]

17 minutes ago, tromboneck said:

"heck"...foul language? What planet are you on? What is it an euphemism for? Please?!

Hecko, Trom. Nice hearing from you.

[The Librarian]

@tromboneck 

 

[Witness]

On 12/21/2017 at 6:29 PM, tromboneck said:

who the heck are you? that was explained in last week's Watchtower and we have no need of your lengthy comment. Our WT study conductor would have cut you off after 30 seconds of non-sensical hogwash! Right TTH?

I truly didn’t know there was a Watchtower on this subject.

The article states:  “Usually, only one side of a scroll was used, so this scroll clearly contains a weighty and serious message.”

Is literal “stealing” from a clothing boutique weighty enough for such a vision? 

“Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who steal My words every one from his neighbor. ¹ Behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who use their tongues and say, ‘He says.’ ³² Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the Lord.  Jer 23:30-32

The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food. W/17/2

From the article:

However, the vision also reminded the Jews of their responsibility to maintain the purity of their worship. Wickedness cannot and will not be allowed to creep into and dwell among Jehovah’s people. After we have been brought into the protective and loving care of God’s clean organization, we have the responsibility to help maintain it.  Are we moved to keep our “house” clean? Wickedness in any form does not belong in our spiritual paradise.

I do hope you can see the whitewash.

Russian Ban   2 Chron 16:7-9

Hidden Pedophiles   Isa 1:17

Lawsuits   Rom 13:2-5

Expectations of full obedience without question   Acts 5:29

Disfellowshipping anointed and all who cannot accept the reckless lies, and “killed” for turning to Christ.    John 16:2; Rev 13:15; Rom 14:4; 1 John 2:3-6

This is what the Lord Almighty says:

“Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
    they fill you with false hopes.
They speak visions from their own minds,
    not from the mouth of the Lord.
¹⁷ They keep saying to those who despise me,
    ‘The Lord says: You will have peace.’
And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts
    they say, ‘No harm will come to you.’
¹⁸ But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord
    to see or to hear his word?
    Who has listened and heard his word?

See, the storm of the Lord
    will burst out in wrath,
a whirlwind swirling down
    on the heads of the wicked.
²⁰ The anger of the Lord will not turn back
    until he fully accomplishes
    the purposes of his heart.
In days to come
    you will understand it clearly.
²¹ I did not send these prophets,
    yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
    yet they have prophesied.
²² But if they had stood in my council,
    they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
    and from their evil deeds. Jer 23:16-22

 

[TrueTomHarley]

13 hours ago, Witness said:

The article states:  “Usually, only one side of a scroll was used, so this scroll clearly contains a weighty and serious message.”

Is literal “stealing” from a clothing boutique weighty enough for such a vision? 

Seemingly no. But within context, yes.

First of all, the scroll of Zechariah specifically condemns stealing - it is a full 50% of its message. You would think that a person who quotes more scriptures than every other commenter combined would have noted this.

This is too much - it really is. One wonders if Witness herself does not steal from boutiques, for she declares trivial and irrelevant the actual message of the scroll. Instead, she applies it to the theocratic organization that does not recognize her authority.

The context of the paragraph, which merely follows the lead of the Bible - offering a practical example of theft that young people especially will identify with - is the spiritual paradise that Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy. It does not take much to destroy a paradise. One sicko inserted one razor blade in one apple and the celebration of Halloween changed forever.

At the Regional Convention I can drop my wallet and be reasonably certain it will turn up at the lost and found. Can I do that outside of the spiritual paradise? There is a reasonable chance that the wallet will come back to me. But with the money within it? Unlikely. It may happen. But I will not hold my breath.

Teaching not to steal at a very mundane level is the very stuff of Christianity. It is what makes all the rest of it work. I both admire the GB (and also suspect they are naive) in that they teach what needs to be taught without regard for self-appointed experts who will invariably seize upon their material and try to beat them over the head with it. They need better PR. Or maybe they don't. Maybe it is just me who thinks they do. Jesus didn't seem too concerned about PR, either. 

 

[Witness]

On 12/23/2017 at 8:04 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Seemingly no. But within context, yes.

First of all, the scroll of Zechariah specifically condemns stealing - it is a full 50% of its message. You would think that a person who quotes more scriptures than every other commenter combined would have noted this.

This is too much - it really is. One wonders if Witness herself does not steal from boutiques, for she declares trivial and irrelevant the actual message of the scroll. Instead, she applies it to the theocratic organization that does not recognize her authority.

The context of the paragraph, which merely follows the lead of the Bible - offering a practical example of theft that young people especially will identify with - is the spiritual paradise that Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy. It does not take much to destroy a paradise. One sicko inserted one razor blade in one apple and the celebration of Halloween changed forever.

At the Regional Convention I can drop my wallet and be reasonably certain it will turn up at the lost and found. Can I do that outside of the spiritual paradise? There is a reasonable chance that the wallet will come back to me. But with the money within it? Unlikely. It may happen. But I will not hold my breath.

Teaching not to steal at a very mundane level is the very stuff of Christianity. It is what makes all the rest of it work. I both admire the GB (and also suspect they are naive) in that they teach what needs to be taught without regard for self-appointed experts who will invariably seize upon their material and try to beat them over the head with it. They need better PR. Or maybe they don't. Maybe it is just me who thinks they do. Jesus didn't seem too concerned about PR, either. 

 

I am no more a boutique thief than you are, Tom; but surely you know, where there are hidden pedophiles, there are also hidden thieves; and I am not speaking of the visitors at the conventions.  1 John 5:19   Yet, there are various types of thievery.  God’s laws were written on both sides of the tablets of ten commandments. Exod 32:15 The flying scroll, was written on both sides, signifying that the nation of Israel was breaking more laws that just thieving and lying. 

 ^“This message from the Lord came to Zechariah again:  “This is what the Lord of the Heavenly Armies says: ‘Administer true justice, and show gracious love and mercy toward each other.  You are not to wrong the widow, orphans, the foreigner, or the poor, and you are not to plan evil against each other.  Zech 7:8-10

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, and yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.”  Matt 23:23

Hidden Pedophiles   Isa 1:17

Lawsuits and resistance to follow court orders Rom 13:2-5

Expectations of full obedience without question   Acts 5:29

Disfellowshipping - on the grounds of rejecting man’s doctrines, an organization/idol, and for speaking up in the name of Jesus.  All of these result from The GB’s “leaven”, corrupting the Word of God.  Matt 16:11,12  An “evil slave” uses its muscle to squelch the anointed ones.  Matt 24;48-51  I wish so much, that you and every JW cared to see this.  

“But they refused to pay attention, turned their backs, and stopped listening. They made their hearts hard like a diamond, to keep from obeying the Law and the messages that the Lord of the Heavenly Armies sent by his Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, just as when I cried out and they would not listen, so also they will cry out, and I will not listen,’ says the Lord of the Heavenly Armies.  ‘I will scatter them to all of the nations, which they have not known.’”  Zech 7:11-13

Haggai, who was prophesying at the same time as Zechariah, addressed the rebuilding of the temple as did Zechariah, and can mirror the situation with God’s priesthood/Temple today. (1 Cor 3:16,17)  It lies in ruins. They are not used, but kept quiet by the elders and the GB. They are admonished not to gather together.  HOW can ANYONE make regulations such as these, against God’s appointed priests, unless they foster evil and autocratic intentions within their heart? Prov 6:12-15

Do you really think a pawn of Satan would appear evil?  2 Cor 4:4; 11:14,15; Rev 13:1,2,5-8,11,12,14,15

 Malachi declared that the priests of his day were guilty of “thieving”: 

“Ever since the time of your ancestors, you have turned away from my decrees and haven’t kept them. Return to me and I’ll return to you,” says the Lord of the Heavenly Armies. “But you ask, ‘How will we return?’  “Will a person rob God? Yet you are robbing me! But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’ “By the tithe and the offering. 

You are cursed under the curse—the entire nation—because you are robbing me!  Mal 3:7-9

You’ve seen me say this, the anointed priesthood has been usurped by
“Gentiles” – the elder body - causing the “daily sacrifices”/tithes and offerings of the priests to be nonexistent. Matt 24;14; Rev 11:1,2  This desecration, abomination standing in the Temple, is robbing God. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 13:15 ) Anointed ones give praise regulated by the GB/unfit Steward; and it is to “Jehovah and his organization”. It is an undeniable fact that the Governing Body relies on “Helpers” and a writing department, to produce Wt’s unhealthy “spiritual food”, instead of those appointed by Christ.   Amos 8:11; Matt 24:7

The GB, the elder body, even the anointed priests who allow their backs to be bent under such regulations are all guilty of robbing God.  Not only are JWs who condone this, “thieves” by allowing sacrifices of praise to be given to an idol, but they are the victims of thieves who bury the spiritual gifts given to each anointed one, for the building up of the anointed Body of Christ, and for the distribution of spiritual food.  Luke 16:3; 10-13; 1 Cor 12:4-7

God’s “House” is taught to be almost every earthly building owned by the Watchtower, which is a great lie. His only “House” is the Temple built upon the Body of Christ.  Eph 2:20-22  Yet, this “house” robs God of the “daily sacrifice”, of worship due only to Him and not to be shared with an earthly organization. Isa 40:25  They “buy and sell” spiritual commerce strictly approved through the Harlot/GB.  John 2:14-17; Rev 13:14-17

“The Lord of Armies says this: These people say: The time has not come for the house of the Lord to be rebuilt.”  The word of the Lord came through the prophet Haggai: ⁴ “Is it a time for you yourselves to live in your paneled houses, while this house (the Temple) lies in ruins?” Haggai 1:4

How many Wt. lies and acts of theft would you like me to whittle away at?  While JWs believe that the organization is a “spiritual paradise” it is the “ephah” where God’s curse lies.  It was set on its “base” close to a hundred years ago.  “Base” carries the meaning, “pedestal” and can imply idolatry.  The false prophet “gives breath” (spirit-directed) to the Beast in Revelation, which expects dedication and acknowledgement of reverence.  Rev 13:15 ‘Who is like the Beast?’ (a spiritual paradise/”Jehovah’s organization”/”the truth”)  ‘Who can wage war with it?’ Rev 13:3,4  This Wild Beast that has been put on a pedestal is the composite “man of lawlessness” (incorporated elder body) which has overrun the Temple/priesthood.  2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2; Rev 13:18

Can an organization receive the breath of God’s spirit (spirit-directed) when its leaders admit they are not inspired by God? (1 Cor 2:12)  How would Christ “promise” ANY food if not through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit within the anointed one?  John 14:26  Or does this “spirit-directed” organization just exude knowledge and truth through its walls?

The “restoration” of the Temple is occurring, by each anointed “living stone” who listens to Christ’s call to buy “refined gold” and leave the woman covenant/promise of death.  Rev 18:4-8; Rev 3:17-21; Dan 8:11-14

Do a search on the Wt. website for Matt 17:11 and see what you find.  The GB teaches nothing about the reason “Elijah” comes, and who arrives in the form of the symbolic “two witnesses”/anointed ones of Revelation - “killed” by the Beast/organization. Rev 13:15; 11:3-5,7,8  They have lost everything to follow Christ and submit to refinement and purging of Wt’s sins.  Matt 16:24  By responding to this cleansing, these “living stones” of the Temple are “restored”.   Matt 17:1-3; Zech 4:11-14; 6-10; Dan 9:24  And they are the ones Christ uses through the “breath of his mouth” to expose the deep, spiritual sins hidden within Watchtower’s walls.  Luke 8:17,18 

“But who will survive the day when he comes? Or who can stand when he appears? Because he’s like a refiner’s fire and a launderer’s soap, ³ he will sit refining and purifying silver, purifying the descendants of Levi, refining them like gold and silver. Then they’ll bring a righteous offering to the Lord.  Then the offering to the Lord by Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable as it was in the past, even as in former years.  Mal 3:2-4

The GB is not naïve.  They have entered this covenant of death by buying into Satan’s offer of riches and prominence.  You label me as a “self-appointed expert”, indicating I have no authority to challenge their prominence.  1 Cor 4:8  Christ presents each anointed one with the obligation to uphold his truth and he expects each one to listen to his direction; even more so, if the appointed ‘house steward’ fails to serve “proper food at the proper time”.  1 Cor 4:1,2; 1 Pet 4:10;    No, the GB is the ringleader of a band of thieves. 

Why are you not asking, what authority do they have to judge their fellow servants? Because they have absolutely none, only self-appointed superiority.  Luke 22:24-27; Rom 14:4; Isa 65:5; 66:5; John 16:2; Mark 13:9 

How many acts of theft and lies would you like me to list coming from the “spiritual paradise”?  I have yet to touch on the false prophetic lies that have lead God’s people astray.  2 Thess 2:1-12; Micah 3:5-7 

Then he said to me, “This is the curse that goes out over the face of the whole land. For everyone who steals shall be cleaned out according to what is on one side, and everyone who swears falsely shall be cleaned out according to what is on the other side.  Zech 5:3

 

 

[Witness]

On 12/23/2017 at 9:10 AM, Nana Fofana said:

A recent book on religion in the United States notes: “Christian leaders have regularly revised their teachings to match the beliefs and opinions gaining support among their members and in the larger society.” If those of the Governing Body allow God’s Word rather than popular opinion to guide their decisions, who is really leading God’s people today?   W/17/2

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of the bones of the dead and every kind of impurity.  In the same way, on the outside you seem righteous to people, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.  Matt 23:27,28

 

[Space Merchant]

It makes you think you know, sorry if I get a bit of off topic. There has been a lot of talk about Religion, a lot of UN stuff, and a lot of Religious unity things in the light of October 2017's reformation.

What is going on in Jerusalem now, US Evangelicals inside the White House wanted this, disregarding the chaos going on in the Holy City as if nothing is happening there.There has been unnecessary deaths, a lot of them that the news isn't talking about.

[TrueTomHarley]

10 hours ago, Witness said:

It is an undeniable fact that the Governing Body relies on “Helpers” and a writing department, to produce Wt’s unhealthy “spiritual food”, instead of those appointed by Christ. 

A snitch at Bethel told me 47 of those Helpers were caught shoplifting from boutiques last month and that was the reason for the article.

Also, CNBC has reported, or should have, that over 6000 boutiques went out of business last year due to customer theft. It is a crisis rivaling the one of opioids. A spokesman for the industry said: "If only more religious organizations would talk about how the flying scroll of Zechariah condemns stealing instead of trying to spin it in airheaded ways."