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'I Do Not Know Why We Persecute Jehovah's Witnesses,' Putin Says

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At a December 11. 2018 meeting with the Council on Civil Society Development and Human Rights, one council member, Ekaterina Shulman, addressed President Putin: “There is a list of organizations, for which there is information that they are involved in terrorism and extremism. There are 489 of them, and 404 of them are Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

Pressing her luck, she continued: “Here I will take a sinister pause. There could be an abundance of claims against Jehovah’s Witnesses—they don’t allow blood transfusion, don’t send children to hospitals, [ed: not a charge that I have heard before] but they definitely are not calling for violence or committing it.”

Putin’s response was: “We should treat the representatives of all religions in the same way – this is true, but still, it is also necessary to take into account the country and the society in which we live. True, this does not mean at all that we should include representatives of religious communities in some destructive, or even in terrorist organizations. Of course, this is complete nonsense, you need to carefully deal with it. Here I agree with you.”

Later in the meeting, Putin returned to the topic and added: “Jehovah’s Witnesses are Christians, too. I don’t quite understand why they are persecuted. So this should be looked into. This must be done.” The Washington Post and Time picked up on the story the next day, the Post saying that he “has pledged to look into the reported persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

Now, what to make of this?

Yaroslav Sivulski, the press secretary for JWs in Russia, stated: “We have noted the president’s reaction with surprise. If he knows about the whole situation, then probably his reaction could change something. We hope that he will give instructions to have the matter examined and something may happen. Though, knowing the realities of our country, there is not much optimism.” Okay, so they’re not breaking out the champagne just yet.

The online community of Jehovah’s Witnesses was a cynical bunch, by and large, with many thinking Putin was just being slippery. In fact, since translating from Russian to English poses challenges, one brother understood him to say: “Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them,” as though he was searching for more effective ways to do it.

Hmm. Did he say "I really do not understand how to persecute them" or "I really do not understand how they are persecuted"? It is the six-million-dollar question. It is a little like the Twilight Zone episode in which the earthlings were relieved to find the alien's handbook "To Serve Man." ‘Ahh, it means their intentions are good,’ and they breathed easily, but at the show’s end they discovered to their discomfort that it was a cookbook.

I tend to take President Putin’s remarks at face value. There is no reason that he has to say what he does, even expanding it to ‘Jehovah’s Witness are also Christians.’ When his Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, who was also among the officials that Witnesses contacted via a letter campaign launched in hopes of averting the ban, was asked a similar question last year, he could not have answered more harshly than he did. I think Putin is being genuine, at last waking up to something that he has barely paid attention to. Maybe it is like the hinge squeaking in the background somewhere that he has long noticed and it is now driving him nuts. Perhaps he will even pick up his WD-40, go lubricate it himself, and subsequently vent his wrath upon whoever allowed such idiocy to take center stage and paint his country before all the world as a nation of goons--in the spirit of Ahasuerus avenging Haman.

A president is a busy guy. It is popularly sold that anything that goes down in a country will have his fingerprints all over it, but this is seldom so for matters of ‘low priority.’ Of course, this is not low priority for us, but it can hardly be otherwise for him. At a subsequent news conference, he spoke to the danger of nuclear war, which he hopes the West does not get to cavalier about: “The danger of the situation escalating is being downplayed,” he said, adding that the lowering of thresholds for nuclear capability “could really lead us to catastrophe.”. If he loses sleep at night, it is not over the travails of a small religion. It is over the thought of the world going up in flames.

Western media excoriates him, but we should not let the propaganda of one king mold our view of the other. I was very careful, in writing the book, Dear Mr. Putin – Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia, not to do that. In the event it was ever read by anyone that mattered, I did not want to sabotage it by being disrespectful or accusing.

It wasn’t that hard to do—for example, by spotlighting the two, likely three, times that Russia, not the United States, saved the world from certain nuclear war. Lieutenant Colonel Petrov spotted an incoming missile from the U.S, judged it a malfunction, and against orders, did not relay the report to the excitable Kremlin. Second-in-command Vasili Arkhipov refused to sign-off with his two fellow officers to launch a nuclear attack during the Cuban missile crisis—the decision had to be unanimous. Nikita Khrushchev arguably brought that crisis to a close with his last-minute telegram to President Kennedy.

However, in refraining from criticizing Putin personally, I was not just being expedient. I honestly came to feel it not likely that he was one of the instigators. I admit that feeling wavered in view of the abuses of the last few months, with Witnesses physically accosted by police, but now it intensifies. Promisingly, he is not cut from the same cloth as many in high government. He was not born to privilege in the ruling class. He started from the ground up, as a regular office worker, and lived with his parents during the early days of his working life. He thus probably retains a feel for the interests of the ‘common man’ that his co-rulers do not. In the end, it hardly matters, because ‘the heart of a king is as streams of water’ in Jehovah’s hands. But it helps if it is neither ice cubes nor steam to begin with.

He didn’t have to say it, is the point. He could have issued some boiler-plate beatitude of how ‘the situation is serious and we continue to monitor it closely.’ He certainly didn’t have to say that Witnesses are Christian too, thus showing that he will not be bullied by ones who insist they are not. His statement makes it much harder for Russia to thumb its nose at any upcoming ECHR verdict, indicating that he has no intention of doing that. How can his words not ease the pressure on Jehovah’s Witnesses in that country? After all, if you were a Russian cop, would YOU beat a brother up after what he just said?

Still, he is conscious of the majority. How much freedom of worship will be restored remains to be seen, since he observes that with 90% of the country being of a certain religious orientation, one cannot throw everything overboard so as to please the "sects." It is enough not to persecute them, which he seems inclined not to do. Maybe the brothers will have to tip-toe around for a while, and it will not necessarily be a bad thing for our people to focus on being discreet. That has long been the direction of theocratic training, anyhow. If Putin truly had evil intent, however, he would not have returned to the topic to say that he doesn’t really understand why Jehovah’s Witnesses are persecuted. Now let’s see how well he holds up as the more devious ones labor to remind him. We will see whose resolve prevails. Probably, Brother Sivulsky has it just right: he is surprised and cautiously optimistic.

In some respects, it may prove a replay, with hopefully different outcome, of the situation with Pilate judging Jesus. Pilate knew he was being set up. He knew he was innocent. He worked rather hard to free him—that much is clear by reading any one of the gospel accounts, and the conclusion is inescapable by combining them. But the scoundrels were so insistent, even hinting that to release Jesus would be treasonous, that he eventually caved. After all, it wasn’t his prime concern. He had a province to run. He tried to do the right thing. That’s how it is with many today. They try to do the right thing, but they only try so hard. When the going gets rough, they opt for expediency.

The Russian Orthodox Church has insisted that it did not instigate the ban and I am inclined to believe them. That is not to say that prominent ones did not squeal with delight, like kids on Christmas morning, or that some instigators did not have Church connections. But the villainy stems from an anti-cult movement, with French connections, that is active in many lands. Conditions in Russia were ripe, that’s all, just like they were ripe for Communism 100 years ago, which was also imported from abroad.

Writing Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia took the better part of a year. There were few publicly available online sources that I did not read during this time, save only for those that were repetitive. The most telling report was one by Joshua Gill, a religion writer, revealing

    Hello guest!
.

“The Russian Supreme Court’s July 17 ban on the Jehovah’s Witnesses was the result of a decades long conspiracy funded by the French government, blessed by the Russian Orthodox Church, and sanctioned by the Putin administration…The latest phase of that plan first garnered international attention with Russian authorities’ arrest of a Danish citizen.” That would be Dennis Christensen, arrested May 25, 2017 for conducting a congregation meeting after the ban had gone into effect, and still in prison at this time of writing, (December 2018) his case only recently coming to trial.

Gill spotlights the role of Alexander Dvorkin, the Russian Ministry’s Expert Council for Conducting State Religious-Studies. That Council exists so as “to investigate religions that deviate from Russian Orthodox teaching and to recommend actions against those religions to the state.” They have recommended taking strong action on non-majority faiths. Mr. Dvorkin is also vice president of the European Federation of Research and Information Centers on Sectarianism (FECRIS), a French NGO dedicated to identifying as a “sect/cult or a guru the organization or the individual which misuses beliefs and behavioral techniques for his own benefit.” It is an organization fully funded by the French government, and it may be remembered that that government tried to eliminate Jehovah’s Witnesses by imposing a 60% tax on their activities in 1998. The tax was steadfastly appealed by Jehovah’s Witnesses until it was struck down by the European Court of Human Rights fourteen years later.

The Daily Caller article reveals the depth of Dvokin’s misinformation and dislike of Jehovah’s Witnesses. “Their adepts recruit failed university enrollees, and people on vacation as well; they have a wide range of psychological influence, especially on the unstable minds of adolescents and youths,” he says of them and the Hare Krishnas. He has encouraged the public to “take part in the fight against sects, file complaints and collect raw data so that the local authorities can react quickly.” In a 2009 documentary called ‘Emergency Investigation: Jehovah’s Witnesses,’ he compared Witnesses to drug dealers. The Journal for the Study of Beliefs and Worldviews attributes instances of public violence against Russian Witness members to that documentary, just as the violence visiting Kingdom Halls in Washington State is similarly stoked by the inflammatory use of the C-word.

It is impossible not to call to mind religious enemies of early times who instigated the violence against the original Christians, as related in Acts. Jehovah’s Witnesses, the foremost example among others, are more dangerous than Satanists, Dvorkin says, because they “conceal evil under the guise of good.” Counterintuitively, the Satanist Church of Moscow was not among the handful of groups he singled out. It had not been labeled extremist. It had also come out in enthusiastic support of the Witness ban in Russia.

Mine was the minority view among the Witnesses I spoke with. “You are a better Christian than I am,” one said. “You always expect the best from people. I don't believe a word a politician says.” Note that his distrust is of “a politician,” not of Putin specifically, though he hardly sings his praises. One could even say that it is a sign of being “insular”—they are all the same to him. Having said that, there are no end of non-Witnesses who feel the same way about politicians, and they long have, the writer Mark Twain even saying that politicians must be changed as frequently as a diaper—and for the same reason.

It is true that I try to think the best of people. Am I a “better Christian” in this instance? Or just a dumber one? Time will tell.

The Ebook is free:  Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia 

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I think something was lost in translation ... which is an art and a science... NOT just a science.

" 'I Do Not Know Why We Persecute Jehovah's Witnesses,' Putin Says "

He may have used the word "prosecute", or something else, if he said anything similar to that at all.

Yesterday I predicted that he would rescue Jehovah's Witnesses before 2020, for the sole reason that he thinks like an adult.

That's my best guess, based on my perception of how Russians think, and how adults think ... nothing more.

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@TrueTomHarley The 777 Crew was on this recently, so was Radio Europe. Ironically enough, some who brought this news up were using WoA's video from May 2.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. It's persecuted. Also I remember showing you that Russian Hit List Website that was targeting political heroes (to keep people at bay before Putin's election), hackers, and religious folk that includes JWs. I am confirming today that as of recently 5-6 days ago that website had been taken down.

As we speak, Cyrill must be fuming mad right now, he is already uneasy with Ukrainian Christians as of recent also.

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8 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

HOW DO YOU KNOW ... Putin used the word "persecuted", if you did not see a video of him saying it .... AND .... competently speak and understand both Russian and English?

How do I know that the sun is hot unless I go up there and touch it?

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:
9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

HOW DO YOU KNOW ... Putin used the word "persecuted", if you did not see a video of him saying it .... AND .... competently speak and understand both Russian and English?

How do I know that the sun is hot unless I go up there and touch it?

As usual, TTH ... when you cannot honestly answer a fair question, you resort to a "cutsey" statement that is completely irrelevant, for the specific purpose of diverting attention from the fact that you do not WANT to answer the question, as it would divulge you lack of previous analysis.

The question remains ... and is still valid.

HOW DO YOU KNOW ... Putin used the word "persecuted", if you did not see a video of him saying it .... AND .... competently speak and understand both Russian and English?

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Because not everyone in the world is a moron.

Chivchalov reports that it is all over Russian news sources, Bro Sivulski said what he said, TASS commented on it. Time and the WaPo & others picked up on it

Surely somewhere in that august body there must be someone who knows how to translate.

After all, when Jimmy Carter said he loved the people of Poland & his translator said that he lusted for them, the blooper was caught immediately.

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Coincidence is not the same as Causality.

.... and I doubt that Jimmy Carter truly loves the people of Poland .....

and now.... time for a review of what we have learned .....

1.) QUESTION: " HOW DO YOU KNOW ... Putin used the word "persecuted", if you did not see a video of him saying it .... AND .... competently speak and understand both Russian and English?"

2.) FIRST ANSWER: " How do I know that the sun is hot unless I go up there and touch it?"

3.) SECOND ANSWER: " Because not everyone in the world is a moron,"

.... AND TO TOP IT OFF ..... you still have not answered the question, which has a VERY simple two word answer.

 

 

 

"I don't."

 

 

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23 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

QUESTION: " HOW DO YOU KNOW ... Putin used the word "persecuted", if you did not see a video of him saying it .... AND .... competently speak and understand both Russian and English

How do I know that you are an actual person and not a malfunctioning bot in desperate need of repair?

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3 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Same answer: 

 
 
 

Okay, just so you know that I am taking your remarks seriously and treating you fairly:

I took your observations to the Worldwide Council of Lofty Ones. When they heard it was you, they didn't want to touch it, but I told them, probably capturing only the spirit of what you might say, not the exact words: "Even a blind transgendered astronaut lands on Pluto once in a while."

At my insistence they examined everything spoken and they concluded that you were right!!! There had been mistranslating. It was not "persecuting" That much was correct. But every other word had been mistranslated and Putin had actually been discussing an episode of Green Acres in which Arnold the Pig feels unjustly put upon.

Now, do you mind? I've got things to do. Do you have any idea the psychiatrist bills I'm running up because of you?

I mean, nobody should look at anything per your "reasoning."  Every second here spent by anyone on anything here or anywhere else is wasted time.

("Ahh...now ve are getting somewhere," my shrink tells me.)

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2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

As usual, TTH ... when you cannot honestly answer a fair question, you resort to a "cutsey" statement that is completely irrelevant, for the specific purpose of diverting attention from the fact that you do not WANT to answer the question, as it would divulge you lack of previous analysis.

The question remains ... and is still valid.

HOW DO YOU KNOW ... Putin used the word "persecuted", if you did not see a video of him saying it .... AND .... competently speak and understand both Russian and English?

Usually when it is people like the TASS, who were pretty much among those the Duma does not like, them attesting to Putin's words is actually correct. They also alluded back to 2016 whereas want Putin had been vocal about Christians and preaching, to which, to those in the Christian world, see as concerning.

Even my sources confirmed this as a truth since they are living in Russia themselves. Not to mention TASS and others had used a video produced by WoA that was uploaded May 2 of last year.

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@TrueTomHarley Now the next thing that is concerning is the Russian Orthodox Church. Should they cry about something to the Kremlin, the Kremlin will act upon what they are being asked. Surely should something go down, the RoC will pop up again to make it difficult for some people.

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Don't criticize person who is Critical Thinker :))))) ..... but you can criticize WT  as much you wish. WT speculative doctrinal thinking has purpose: to collect and keep members who will support Corporation with money and free labor.  

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6 hours ago, Outta Here said:

    Hello guest!

There, you big hillbilly @James Thomas Rook Jr.  Start translating:

Мы сегодня простились с Людмилой Михайловной Алексеевой. Думаю, каждый из вас со мной согласится в том, что это был светлый, мужественный и сильный человек. Она отстаивала справедливость так, как ей подсказывала совесть. И многие годы Людмила Михайловна участвовала в работе нашего Совета, была в этом кругу среди нас, очень многое сделала, для того чтобы Совет стал

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8 hours ago, Outta Here said:

    Hello guest!

The relevant portion is translated through bing as follows. I don't speak Russian, but can just about read it phonetically. After letting Bing and then Google translate, Google did a very good job overall, but this one portion appears to be better in Bing, but only for this one particular sentence that I've marked in red below.

------------------

V. Putin: Thank you.

With regard to the first of your stories about this African students got to see, of course, nonsense kakaja‑to. From what you are telling, it's just kakaja‑to nonsense.

And, of course, need to do what you suggest, to analyze the enforcement practice. And, if necessary, make adjustments to the kakie‑to.

B. Ryakhovskiy: For this girl to me now turned to the European Court of Justice, I have continued to ...

Putin: I don't know what denomination it belongs, she is Christian, but there are also a lot of directions. Jehovah's witnesses, too, Christians are being persecuted, I also do not really understand. So we just need to analyze, it is necessary to do so. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.

The Russian language original is 95% down into the page that @Outta Here provided above.

В.Ряховский: По этой девушке ко мне сейчас обратились, для того чтобы я продолжал в Европейский Суд…

В.Путин: Я не знаю, к какой конфессии она принадлежит, она христианка, но там тоже много направлений. Свидетели Иеговы тоже христиане, за что их преследовать, я тоже не очень понимаю. Поэтому надо просто проанализировать, надо это сделать. Я переговорю с Вячеславом Михайловичем, и попробуем это сделать.

The key word here is преследовать, which oddly enough can mean basically "chase" and therefore it can mean both prosecute and persecute. Formally you should to add a phrase that means "judicially" or "by trial" (i.e. преследовать + в судебном порядке, or преследовать + по суду ) and it means prosecute. Without these additions, I think it really should mean persecute, especially if used with a religion or minority in the context. Therefore, it SHOULD mean persecute here, but I suspect this translation could legally be challenged as just a less formal way of meaning "prosecute." 

In fact, if you just go to translate.bing.com and type in преследовать, you will get the following, which includes both prosecute and persecute without the formal additions:

Translations of  "преследовать"
VERB
haunt преследовать, логово, мучить, обитать
pursue преследовать, проводить, осуществлять, добиваться, стремиться, следуем
chase чейз, погони, преследовать, преследование, догнать, гоняться, гоньбы
prosecute преследовать, судебного преследования, обвинить, наказывать, уголовное преследование, сажать, осудить
persecute преследовать
harass преследовать, беспокоить, изводить, домогаться, докучать, запугивания
stalk стебель, преследовать, ножке, черенок, плодоножки, стеблю, палочка
obsessing преследовать, одержимы, увлеченно
© 2018 Microsoft

------------------

For reference, I have also added Google's translation of larger portions of the context below. Both for the original question about JWs, and the context of the later discussion where Putin evidently brings up JWs on his own, even if the particular case (of the African med student "missionary" studying in Russia) was not a JW:

-----------the rest of this post is Google's translation of excerpts from the link that Outta Here provided: ----------

There is also a list, for example, of organizations that also have information that they are involved in extremism and terrorism. There are 489 of them, 404 of them are Jehovah's Witnesses. I will make here an ominous pause. Many, perhaps, there are claims to Jehovah's Witnesses - they don’t transfuse blood, don’t send children to the hospital - but they certainly don’t call for violence and don’t carry it out.

So 404 of 489 - this is it. That’s how many terrorist organizations we have in the Russian Federation. Thus, I would like to express the hope that the anti-extremist legislation will, let's say, be moderated in accordance with the requirements of society and in accordance with the real level of crime.

Because everyone has more or less understood that these searches for pictures on social networks and the initiation of cases on this issue - this does not contribute to strengthening anything, it does not correspond to any state interests, it does not prevent any terrorist acts.

As we can see, when, unfortunately, this kind of thing happens, these are people who did not follow these lists, who did not come into the view of law enforcement agencies, because, of course, they do not post pictures on VKontakte, they do not communicate among themselves in open communities. They coordinate their actions completely differently.

Thank.

V.Putin: Thank you very much.

Ekaterina Mikhailovna, I am very pleased that the questions, rather sharp questions, were raised precisely by you - an employee of the Institute of Social Sciences under the President of the Russian Federation.

E.Shulman: Yes, I am now twice under the President of the Russian Federation, both at the place of work and in social activities.

V.Putin: See, everything is the same.

And they require careful consideration, all the questions you raised.

Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses. Probably, we can, and even should at some point, be much more liberal to representatives of various religious sects, but we should not forget that our society does not consist solely of religious sects. 90 percent of the citizens of the Russian Federation, or so, consider themselves Orthodox Christians. We have three more practically traditional our religions, which the state provides assistance. We should treat the representatives of all religions in the same way - this is true, but nevertheless it is also necessary to take into account the country and the society in which we live. True, this does not mean at all that we should include representatives of religious communities in some destructive ones, not even in terrorist organizations. Of course, this is complete nonsense, you need to carefully deal with it, here I agree with you.

You always return me to the case of Ponomarev, he is probably a truly respected person. But the judge, when he made the decision, do you think I knew that he was making the decision? Of course not. But when a judge makes such decisions, he does not proceed from merit or from something else. If it were a simple citizen who few people know, even the question would not be raised. The law is the same for everyone. To close relatives could be released at parting, at the funeral, there is no other case in the law. The judge is guided by these direct instructions of the text of the law itself, that's all. There is nothing like that, there is no ambush here, there is no political motive.

About unauthorized rallies. Let's still come back to this and see. You yourself mentioned, said about Paris. See, there are victims already affected. The fight is mainly in the center of the capital, and a state of emergency has been declared because of this. How many pogroms there are, burnt cars, shops, the losses are not only in the state, but also in people who have nothing to do with the state, they are enormous. And all this time - like a match, and everything started.

This does not mean at all that we should not analyze our own life and not look after the law that is in place in our country. But still, we must understand the world we live in. Liberal approach to an unauthorized rally. The hard answer from the state what? Water cannons, gas, batons, hundreds of delays - hundreds, can you imagine? Don't we know that? More recently, there have been heavy events in which the Constitution of the Russian Federation was adopted in force, in conditions of growing civil war, in fact, civil war! Crowds of people with weapons ran across Moscow, stormed the Ostankino, crawled along some kind of underground facilities, communications. Regular units of the Russian army were brought into Moscow, internal troops were involved, and they still fired at each other, not understanding what was happening. Chaos! Carefully need to treat this very. Although, of course, it is necessary to analyze the conditions in which we live and the rules that govern our life, including its side, which you mentioned.

Please, I beg you.

---------------- skipping to the area near the end where Putin brings up JWs on his own---------------

If the damage was mitigated, repaid, and the antisocial act is not so serious there.

A.Sokurov: It is the New Year and Christmas amnesty.

Vladimir Putin: Let's think, we have Christmas every year. We must carefully approach this.

It is necessary to finish already. I promised, otherwise I will work until three in the morning.

Here it is, that's all. Please, I beg you.

V. Ryakhovsky: Vladimir Vladimirovich, thank you very much.

To be honest, this is the first time in six years, the turn has reached me.

I have two questions, I will try to short, saving time.

In July 2016, a federal law was passed under the title “On the adoption of additional measures to counter terrorism”, the so-called “Spring Act” among the people.

This law amended the law on freedom of conscience. The Law on Freedom of Conscience was supplemented by a chapter on missionary activity. The definition of missionary activity is given, the procedure for its conduct is established, to the extent that, in order for a person to speak about his convictions, he must be delegated by a religious organization and have a standard document.

The Code of Administrative Offenses introduced Article 5.26 on establishing liability. A year and a half has passed, and I would very much like to ask the initiators of this law: has the goal, which was set by the authors, been achieved? According to this law, at least one extremist was held accountable?

Nevertheless, law enforcement agencies initiated and brought to court more than 600 administrative cases involving representatives of various religious denominations, with the possible exception of one - the most widespread. These things are as unbelievable as imagination can probably be.

Here is just one vivid example: Nizhny Novgorod, a student, a citizen of an African country, a sixth-year student at a medical university, is a little more than a month from state examinations. She gives an interview to one of the Internet channels, talks about herself, about her family, about her childhood, about how she has been a believer since childhood, a Christian, and in Russia she also comes to church, and all this helps her in her studies .

Two administrative cases are brought against her. The first is for violating the rules of missionary activity, she is fined, the second is for violating the goals of staying in the Russian Federation. She arrived on a missionary visa, and here she says something about her convictions. And she is appointed in the second case a fine and expulsion from the Russian Federation. Fortunately, the appellate station probably had enough intelligence: they didn’t cancel these decrees, but they postponed her expulsion until they received the diploma, in just a few months.

Interestingly, the basis of these cases was the expert opinion, which saw in this video hidden appeals, hidden missionary activity.

That is, you understand what's the matter? Hidden. There are no obvious signs of missionary activity. And why are they not? Yes, because it is hidden, and because of this, she was brought to justice.

I can bring a lot of such things, because this is part of my professional interests. The Constitution has a stable notion: when the freedom of conscience is revealed, it is said about the right to impart one’s beliefs. This measure, this rule of law appears, to put it mildly, simply manifestly excessive, it does not contribute to the harmonization of interfaith relations, but, on the contrary, leads to imbalance and violation of the constitutional rights of citizens.

Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we kindly ask you to instruct the Supreme Court to simply summarize the practice. And then there are so many accumulated of these cases that you can just draw caricatures. It just comes to ridiculous! I just brought one thing, but in fact there are a lot of them. And to raise the question of generalizing this practice on 5.26 with respect to religious organizations, and in general, probably, raise the question of the expediency, to what extent is such regulation justified. There is the concept of "spreading religious beliefs." Why else to introduce the concept of "missionary activity"?

The second question is completely irrelevant to this. Literally the day before, I had a meeting with several businessmen who responded to your May invitation to return to the Russian Federation after the years of emigration on the so-called Titov list.

And indeed, it was precisely by believing your word and not doubting your innocence, because those behind whom there was something, I think, would not even come at your invitation. And the fact that several people have already returned to their homeland in the hope that, while at home, they will be able to recover and protect their good name.

And one of the first defendants in the so-called Titov list, who returned to Russia after 13 years of forced emigration in London, became a businessman from Yekaterinburg Sergey Kapchuk. I met him. You should have seen his eyes after he arrived. Just burning, shining - he came home, he came, believing your call and believing that here is true today, unlike those years when he left, justice.

But, alas, he encountered today the same methods of investigation from which he had once escaped. He was automatically charged since 2005. After reading the materials of the case, as he explained to me, the corruption scheme in the government of the Sverdlovsk region, in which it was used, simply became clear.

They filed applications for the interrogation of specific people, heads of individual industries, confrontations - all of this consequence closes his eyes today, and, as we understood, is ready to bring the case to court, to hang up some conditional or slightly lax sentence, order to forget this thing.

But he did not come for this. He did not come to be given a conditional sentence, not to be released under an amnesty, but to prove that he was innocent.

Therefore, Vladimir Vladimirovich, kindly requested. The first is to give the General Prosecutor's Office to take over the cases of Sergei Kapchuk, and similar cases for the people who came, returned to Russia, to take control. And to you, of course, such a request, to still follow the fate of these people not until they returned, but in general, before the completion of their work.

This case has a public outcry today. Why? Because others, those who still remain abroad today, they are closely watching the result of this business. This will be an example for them, as an urge to return to Russia too. And, fulfilling the request of Kapchuk, I just wanted to give you a short appeal from him.

Thank you very much.

V.Putin: Thank you.

As for your first story about this African student, you need to look, of course, some sort of nonsense. From what you tell, it's just some kind of nonsense.

And you need, of course, to do what you propose - to conduct an analysis of law enforcement practice. And if necessary, make some adjustments.

V.Ryakhovsky: According to this girl, they now appealed to me, so that I would continue to the European Court ...

V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.

K. Kabanov: Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich.

Dear Colleagues!

You know, I actually, probably, in my 14 years of work, every time I hear that we have two problems: law enforcement agencies and bad laws.

In fact, in the framework of the instructions you gave last time, Vladimir Vladimirovich, we dealt with the history of the criminalization of the teenage environment. But, as we were taught at previous duty stations, we must look deep into, look, study . . . . 

 

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4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how to persecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it.

I still, in my own mind, assuming that I know the mind of Russian thinking ... especially of a man who used to be the head of the Soviet KGB, and also presumably knowing how adults in such positions think, do NOT believe that he used the word "persecute".  I believe this was in the mind of the translator, or the algorithm of the translation computer program,  ... NOT V. Putin.

Unless I can talk to someone who has the original video or transcript, in Russian, and who is conversational in BOTH Russian and English ... and I can get an equally qualified second opinion ... It is my belief and conjecture that the word he used is "prosecute".

Here is the general idea of  how I believe the thoughts actually were spoken:

" V.Putin: I don’t know to which confession she belongs, she is Christian, but there are also many directions. Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how it is (meaning "why?") we prosecute them. Therefore, you just need to analyze, you need to do it. I will talk with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich, and try to do it."

If there is ANYBODY that knows HOW to persecute AND prosecute someone ... it is the former head of the KGB.

Translation is an art, as well as a science, and there are some artists that put out poor work, and scientists that plow your aircraft into a cornfield, and some computer programs that, like the HAL9000, do not take into consideration all aspects of a problem.

Deactivating Hal 9000 HD (COMPLETE).mp4

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Like @@James Thomas Rook Jr., I cannot think that a politician as wiley and experienced as Mr Putin would use the word "persecute" in connection with his own government's activity.  As suggested above, the word "prosecute" makes far more sense and indeed a statement as quoted: 

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Jehovah's Witnesses are also Christians, for which I do not really understand how it is (meaning "why?") we prosecute them.

is no less an indictment on the persecution (intended use) of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russis and is really more credible.

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5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

do NOT believe that he used the word "persecute".  I believe this was in the mind of the translator, or the algorithm of the translation computer program,  ... 

It’s possible.

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:
prosecute преследовать, судебного преследования, обвинить, наказывать, уголовное преследование, сажать, осудить
persecute преследовать
harass  

Why doesn’t JWI stay in his ivory egghead tower? He has caused the unthinkable to happen...that my nemesis should become a bastion of truth.

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14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I still, in my own mind, assuming that I know the mind of Russian thinking ... especially of a man who used to be the head of the Soviet KGB, and also presumably knowing how adults in such positions think, do NOT believe that he used the word "persecute".  I believe this was in the mind of the translator, or the algorithm of the translation computer program,  ... NOT V. Putin.

JTR: I agree with you here. If you look at the entire meeting, the word "prosecute" was used in the translation a few of the other times, even in similar contexts. Judicial prosecution was already the topic here in nearly every case discussed, but the overall topic is a wider context than the auto-translator AI looks at. The fact that the name of a minority was used in the sentence, "Jehovah's Witnesses," and that the word "Christians" was in the immediate context, this is what probably triggered the translation, "persecute" instead of "prosecute."

Of course, this is still a very important admission as @Outta Here has said, and it's in line with what you were thinking about Putin being the one to get it straightened out, if it reaches to a high enough priority. There were several interesting admissions in the meeting, and Putin comes across as very professional, careful, knowledgeable and "wiley." He is just defensive enough to protect himself from various questionable decisions by judges, admits problems with some laws, understands some of the PR issues with the rest of the world, etc. But he also doesn't commit to overturn questionable actions, and doesn't want to give in too much, to avoid the impression, for example, that future amnesty can be counted on, based on past or current amnesty. 

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Even an inverted barley flapjack soaks up the syrup sometimes. 

Because it was @James Thomas Rook Jr., I followed the normal course of wisdom and asked him what had he been smoking.

But now it seems more likely that Putin did indeed say “prosecute,” a term familiar to his world, and not “persecute,” a term not.

 It probably amounts to the same thing. What, is he suggesting that they should be rounded up and detained without prosecution? 

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It probably amounts to the same thing. What, is he suggesting that they should be rounded up and detained without prosecution? 

No, TTH, it probably does NOT amount to the same thing.  The two words have nuances that make them completely different ... which is what this WHOLE CONVERSATION has been about.

Words have intonation, flavor, nuance, and emotional indexes, depending on culture, context, and time and circumstance of usage.

Soft words in one language are hard words in another.  The same word used in street slang, an Elder's meeting, and in a court of law will be quite different, due to "environmental" factors, and common usage.

Once again, you are trying to soften and justify that you are wrong.

.... And as to your question ... if you don't understand the answer intuitively, an explanation is beyond the amount of work I want to devote to an answer.

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14 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

if you don't understand the answer intuitively, an explanation is beyond the amount of work I want to devote to an answer.

What do you think? Do his words indicate he’s about to ratchet up the pressure?

No insults, please. (Be like me.) Tell me what you think.

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What do you think? Do his words indicate he’s about to ratchet up the pressure?

No insults, please. (Be like me.) Tell me what you think.

If my understanding of the Russian Mind ... and Putin's mind is correct, he is going to reverse the prosecution of Jehovahs'a Witnesses, before 2020, as I stated two days ago on another thread.

He thinks like an adult, when all around him, on BOTH sides, everyone else is thinking like petulant children.

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. The only obstacle is the Duma and the Russian Orthodox Church. The RoC are like children, if they cry about something, Putin will take action directly and or indirectly. You play Pokemon Go in a Church, the Kremlin will somehow get involved. You like poetry and the FSB don't like it, well, they'll come for you. Like the Bible or like to crack jokes? In Russia, jokes crack you, and your Bible will be taken and or used as a means to take you down. Want to save your home? The Duma will prevent you from doing that and will get the RU police involved and most likely push you and your sign to the ground and then arrest you. We need not start with singing. And yin Chechnya, you have to be vigilant - or else.

 

The jokes may be something to laugh at, but when the Russians triad are serious, they'll do something to you.

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Getting 8 million people to write the same set of letters is not as impressive to him as it seems to us, because it only proves that the very thing he doesn't want in a Russian religion, exists to the nth degree in our religion: that everyone follows orders from the same HQ outside of Russia.

 

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If my understanding of the Russian Mind ... and Putin's mind is correct, he is going to reverse the prosecution of Jehovahs'a Witnesses, before 2020, as I stated two days ago on another thread.

He thinks like an adult, when all around him, on BOTH sides, everyone else is thinking like petulant children.

I rest my case.

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5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The RoC are like children, if they cry about something, Putin will take action directly and or indirectly.

Bible principles everywhere, even in satan's world :))) 

“So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[

    Hello guest!
] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,

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10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Getting 8 million people to write the same set of letters is not as impressive to him as it seems to us, because it only proves that the very thing he doesn't want in a Russian religion, exists to the nth degree in our religion: that everyone follows orders from the same HQ outside of Russia.

Yes, but one will never be able to hide this. It will be the same as trying to hide other things about us that the general world finds unpopular. Detractors will always be bringing it up & then we are in the position of trying to downplay or even deny it.

No. We are what we are. And it is a good thing, not a bad thing, so that we should not skulk around as though it were not so. It is enough to convey the impression that the first thing we do in any land is ask the “king” what are his rules for maintaining public order, and then we follow them. We convey truthfully that we have unity & that it is no threat to him.

Having said that, the next writing campaign will feature photos of all the GB eating borscht so that it will be clear that Western JWs take their marching orders from Russia & not the other way around.

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@TrueTomHarley Well stuff like this will be difficult because you have several groups under the Kremlin before anything reaches the top. It is like a game, in some sense, whereas Putin is all the way on level 100 and you are trying to get through the other 99 levels to reach him. The only reason there was some difficulty last time because A, you had the Russians dealing with Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev, you had several other protesting going on also, for instance, the Alexei Navalny Heroes (who ended up being FSB'd via a face recognition website), and a list of other things, and what took place in Chechnya. and B would be you had faith opposition and atheist who caught on who wrote to Russia themselves.

So consider that a struggle that is embedded in several of these, said levels.

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On 12/22/2018 at 8:51 PM, JW Insider said:

The relevant portion is translated through bing as follows. I don't speak Russian, but can just about read it phonetically 

I asked Chivchalov about this. (he the one who covered trial & appeal in a steady stream of tweets) Putin said persecute, he said, not prosecute.

So I emailed your Bing list of verbs. He said: “Yes, persecute can be close to prosecute in Russian in a narrow sense of legal prosecution. For example, "судебное преследование" will be "prosecution." But Putin didn't say that. He said "persecution" in the general sense.”

You hear that, you big @James Thomas Rook Jr.? He said persecute.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You hear that, you big @James Thomas Rook Jr.? He said persecute.

That is why in my original objection, I said I would need TWO (or more) competent Russian speakers .... It's like going to a Doctor and when he tells you something you suspect is not right, and you mention that you will need a second opinion.

He responds thoughtfully and says ... "OK ... you are also ugly."

If he was a Russian Orthodox Priest, I would assume he said "persecute".

In my considered opinion, the President of the Russian Federation would NEVER use that word, as it carries the connotation of being arbitrary and capricious, petulant and evil.

For those and previously explained specific reasons .... I reject that he used the word "persecute".

It is obvious that he never read a single letter of the 6 million or so sent him by Jehovah's witnesses, (although he probably enjoyed the $56,000,000 dollars the Brotherhood via the Universal Postal Union gave him for NOT delivering them), so perhaps if you would write him ONE single letter, via the Russian Embassy in Washington, DC, he or the embassy will answer.

After all .... it's YOUR topic, and YOUR thread.

Be a sport .... do the homework to its conclusion.

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Be a sport .... do the homework to its conclusion.

Speaking to the Russian citizen who was most active in reporting events as they unfolded will be accepted as ‘doing my homework’ in all minds but yours. (if it can be called that, in view of such stubbornness)

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I said I would need TWO (or more) competent Russian speakers ....

Is that like the two witness rule? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

really, just kidding. It was just too tempting to pass up. .

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25 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

really, just kidding. It was just too tempting to pass up. .

My first appreciative comment ever towards Shiwiii - a milestone.

Some things are indeed too tempting to pass up.

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@TrueTomHarley One thing for certain. If the faith group in question having recreational time at a beach only to be stalked and taken by FSB affiliates to be held and interrogated, that is persecution. If a Russian professor is telling his students to target a girl because of her faith, sending underlings to speak of her even slander her, that is persecution. If religious folk is being targeted using the same tech the FSB used for Alexei Navalny Heroes, with the focus of reporting, calling, and confronting, that in of itself is persecution.

The irony of it all, some Russians have been vocal about the twisting of Yarovaya law, but must of that was swept under the rug, or in this case, tossed out of the 10th floor of an apartment building, down into the bushes whereas no one would think to find it.

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It may sound inhumane for some, but why should one wonder, questioning that one nation (Russia) wants to have its dominant religion and culture above others. If that is the reason what is happening there.


Actually, JW should understand that situation more than the Russians themselves. The JW accept the reality that there was one nation (Jews) in the past. It was not an "ordinary" people, but God's chosen people, which became a nation. There were laws in that nation. The most important law was to worship only a Jewish god. Every other form of religion brought death to a child, a woman, a man, or a family who served another god.


Today, we supposedly live in a different time, so-called advanced time. In which we can have and live different and even opposite views, beliefs. The WT supports a "struggle, fight" for equality and freedom for everyone to believe and speak and freely adore their god. Every JW member of the church also believes in such a "democratic" right. But, the JW member forgets a very uncomfortable fact. His present freedom to practice his religion is not a product of the Jewish god of the Bible, but of "secular" laws.


In the "future JW world" there will not be place for freedom of religion and worship. Any deviation from the "true" JW religion will be in the 3P formula, = prosecuted, persecuted and punished.

Does JW members not see how they alone generate same kind of 3P formula for decades?! How? By their rules and laws about disfellowshiping, shunning, ignoring, avoiding of those JW who changed their views on doctrinal matters and Bible interpretations of WT !!  JW members have own "little Russia" inside boarders of their Spiritual Paradise. :))

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      Dieu Jehovah qui à fait à tout les formes de vie et en tout ce qu'Il a créé. 
      Regardons la création de YHWH, 
      SA CRÉATION EST SI PRÉCISE QU'ELLE EST COORDONNÉE COMME UNE HORLOGE.
      Soyons précis dans nos actions, nos paroles et nos pensées car tout ce que nous faisons à une empreinte sur la vie de nous même et des autres 
      Suivre les paroles de son livre Saint, nous donne des conseilles judicieux à nous même et aux autres car il nous faut la maitrise de nous même en chaque fruits de l'esprit et en connaitre sa valeur si puissante, avant de pouvoir l'enseigner avec qualité au brebis perdu et s'entraider les uns les autres dans un but commun, réjouir le coeur de notre Créateur tout puissant. Le SAINT SAINT SAINT (Rév 4:8 c)
      C'EST AINSI DE RECEVOIR DE NOTRE DIEU, SA BONTÉ DE COEUR.
      Parvenons ensemble à revêtir la personnalité nouvelle. Ainsi nous refléterons les qualités exemplaires, d'un serviteur de Jéhovah. 
      L'ouverture de notre d'esprit est salutaire car tout nos actions en c'est vertues viennent de YHWH.
      Le salut appartient à Jéhovah et par se fait recevoir les bénédictions accorder par Dieu, à tous ces serviteurs fidèles.(Ps 3: 8)
      AGISSONS AINSI cela montrera que nous suivons les pas de l'homme le plus grand de tout les temps qui est le Oint  
      de notre Dieu, Jésus Christ.
      La bienveillance de Jésus Christ fut extraordinaire son humilité et sa compassion, dévoila la beauté de sa personne.  ( Ph 2:1-11)
      Sans relâche, il témoignait de tout coeur par ces beaux discours sans se glorifié mais en glorifiant son Père et en son Saint Nom, à la nation qu'il voulait sauvé, les humains de la terre entière par l'Amour infini de notre Dieu.
      Les paroles qu'il utilisait était toujours précisent pour trouver les brebis égarés dans les témoignages aux le pied des montagnes, dans les synagogues, dans les rues et de portes en portes. IL FUT UN ENSEIGNANT EXTRAORDINAIRE POUR CES DISCIPLES ET TOUT CES PRÉDICATEURS DE LA FOI POUR L'ANNONCEMENT DU ROYAUME PROMIS.
      Tout ce qu'il utilisa venu de son Père.
      Comme ce passage qui révèla que tout fut enseigné avant sa venu.
      "Je ne fais rien de ma propre initiative.
      Tout ce que je vous dit en ce moment, viens de mon Père, son Dieu, notre Dieu. JEHOVAH"
      Faisons comme lui, suivons ses pas sans relâche avec  fermeté, obéissance et intégrité. 
      ACQUIÈRE LA PATIENCE.
      NOUS SOMMES TOUS DES ENFANTS DE DIEU ET YHWH EST PATIENT AVEC NOUS.
      La patience est prendre attention envers tous ceux que nous voulons intimement PURIFIER ET ENSEIGNER AVEC QUALITÉ
      Entrer en relation avec les autres mais avant tout, prendre le temps de devenir à l'élite de soi avant de pouvoir
      Donner des conseilles à ceux que nous voulons aider car YHWH LE FIT PENDANT DES MILLIARDS D'ANNÉES
      AVANT NOUS ET BIEN AVANT QUE TOUTE CETTE CRÉATION PHYSIQUE SOIT CRÉÉ.
      YHWH MÉDITA PENDANT DES MILLIARDS ANNÉES AVANT DE CRÉER SON FILS SA PREMIÈRE CREATION ET TOUT CE QUI EN SUIVIT.
      Maîtriser la patience nous donne ĺa chance de vivre en notoriété avec les lois de YHWH ET AINSI COMPLÉTER L'ÉQUILIBRE 
      QUE NOTRE DIEU VEUX QUE NOUS FASSIONS POUR  NOUS MÊME ENVERS JEHOVAH ET EN SUIVANT LES PAS DE JESUS SON OINT, SA PREMIÈRE CRÉATION. ENSEIGNONS LA VOIE DU SALUT DE NOTRE DIEU, À NOTRE PROCHAIN, D'UN COEUR COMPLET.
      SOYONS PATIENT ENVERS AUTRUI COMME JÉHOVAH L'EST POUR NOUS TOUS , SERVITEUR DE JEHOVAH
      La patience est prendre attention à l'autre et de donner du temps à nos amis et à ceux que nous voulons partager la connaissance exacte de notre Dieu.
      Jéhovah est patient avec nous et nous savons que chacun de nous avons des qualités et des défauts et que nous allons pas à la même vitesse, dans les changements que Jéhovah nous dicte le chemin, QU'IL NOUS A DONNÉ QUAND NOUS AVONS CHOISIS DE DEVENIR SON SERVITEUR ,PAR NOTRE BAPTÊME.
      La patience est une vertue dure à atteindre et elle nous aie primordiale et très importante POUR NOTRE VIE ET À CELLE DES AUTRES.
      C'EST POUR CELA QUE NOUS DEVONS AGIR SANS JUGER LES AUTRES ET DONNER LE TEMPS AVEC BIENVEILLANCE À S'ENTRAIDER ENSEMBLE POUR MAITRISER NOTRE VIE AVEC PATIENCE. L'AMOUR ET L'UNITÉ EST LA CLÉ (Jean 13 :34)
      Nous sommes tous important pour Jéhovah et il nous donne à tous, la chance de faire les actions nécessaires en son temps pour réjouir Son Coeur.
      Ainsi une vertue extraordinaire que peu de gens ont connu dans une vie, qui est la Paix véritable.
      COMMENT ACQUÉRIR LA PAIX véritable et par dessus tout en acquérir la vertue?
      LA PREMIÈRE QUALITÉ POUR ATTEINDRE LA PAIX EST L'OBÉISSANCE AUX LOIS DE YHWH.
      Vivre avec intégrité aux norme de YHWH nous donne un sentier éclairé, qui nous apporte à voir clair dans nos agissements et cela en conformité
      Avec les lois de la nature que Jéhovah a instauré dans son univers élégant . Jéhovah nous a donné un livre comment devenir maître de notre vie en se laissant diriger par sa parole.
      La bonté de coeur que nous apportons aux autres et que leurs réussites dans les conseilles que nous avons puisé dans la parole de Dieu, nous réjouis le coeur et par le même fait, nous donne de la paix, car ce que nous avons suivit porta fruit à ceux qui les ont accepté de plein coeur, en plongeant sans hésitation à les mettre en pratiques dans leur vie comme nous avons agis de la même manière en les inculquant dans notre vie. Par notre exemple, ils ont excellé et acquis de beau résultat dans leur vie et par nous même et bien par la même voie que nous avons empruntés en se laissant diriger par notre Dieu que par la patience nous avons intégré en nous la vertue de la paix par la lecture de sa parole, la bible. La paix s'obtiens par la connaissance de la vérité de Dieu et cela en faisant les actions nécessaire sans hésitation au modèle DES PAS DE NOTRE GUIDE SPIRITUEL, celle de JÉSUS CHRIST. La paix s'obtiens même dans les pires souffrances que Jésus à vécu dans le passé. Nombre de personnes qui ont laissé leur ancienne vie vers l'unique chemin de la vie éternelle et qu'ils ont dû accepté de grave souffrance jusqu'à leur mort pour trouver la paix sans fin. N'oublions pas que la souffrance est comme une tempête turbulente et dévastatrice mais gardons en mémoire que celui qui n'à pas peur de perde son Âme pour sa foi vivra vraiment pour toujours. Une tempête ne dure jamais longtemps et la paix que Jehovah nous offre de vivre en paix et cela pour toujours, pour l'éternité à celui qui sans relâche ne renonce pas d'aller de l'avant, c'est ainsi  que l'on trouvera la joie véritable.
      Comme dit le dictons : Après la pluie, c'est le beau temps. 
      Alors que devons nous faire pour atteindre la paix?
      Laissons nous diriger par notre guide sauveur, Jésus Christ, que par son obéissance de donner sa vie pour tout les juste de la terre, il ouvra le chemin de la liberté éternelle À CELUI QUI SE LAISSE DIRIGER PAR SON ENSEIGNEMENT VENANT DE SON PÈRE, LE SAINT SAINT SAINT. (Rev: 4: 8 )(Ep 1: 4)
      Fixons solidement nos regard sur la parole de notre Créateur avec des actions véritables qui réjouis le coeur de notre Dieu et ainsi nous sentirons en nous même dans cette période ardu proche de la fin, une paix véritable aux fond de notre coeur et qui se manifestera car Jéhovah protège et donne force à ses fidèle enfants de la foi. Trouvons ainsi une nouvelle vertue en notre être: La Joie.
      TROUVONS LE CHEMIN DE LA JOIE PAR LA PAIX VÉRITABLE
      Comment pouvons nous acquérir la Joie véritable dans ce monde remplis de désordre?
      Celui qui plonge les regards dans la loi parfaite, celle de la liberté, et qui y persiste, [...] qui fait l’œuvre, sera heureux en la faisant. ” — Jacques 1:25.
      Heureux ceux qui sont intègres dans leur voie. 
      LA LUMIÈRE PAR LA CONNAISSANCE NOUS DONNE DE LA JOIE.
      "Ceux qui marchent dans la loi de Jéhovah".
      Heureux ceux qui observent ses rappels.
      De tout Coeur, ils le recherche sans relâche."Psaume 119 : 
      Nôtres modèle de foi qui est venu sur la terre par Son Père, Jésus a affronté chaque étape de sa vie,
      Avec une ténacité exemplaire, sans relâche jusqu'à sa mort sacrificielle pour l'Amour de notre Dieu YHWH 
      Cela ne fut pas facile de garder sa foi en voyant le monde ainsi depuis sa jeunesse.
      Voir les actions du méchant son regard, celui des yeux, Jésus a vu des images réelles du mal.
      Il ressentait comme nous tous  les désirs puissants de notre être qui peut nous faire succomber.
      Il n'y étaient pas aveuglé, il entendait,, il ressentait, il était constamment attaqué par un ennemi terrifiant.
      cela était réelle, il vivait notre vie.
      Jésus voyait de l'avant, sans renoncer, il avançait, dans le chemin, qui lui était destiné.
      Ce chemin lui appartenait, il devait le faire pour l'Amour de son Père envers tout les justes de la terre.
      Il l'a fait par la joie de faire la volonté de son Dieu, son Père. Notre Dieu, Jehovah.
      Nous avons connu la vie ( la voie ) par notre choix de servir Dieu  
      Par notre coeur grand ouvert dans un sens unique
      De celle de la justice du Royaume De Dieu.
      D'obéir de tout notre coeur à celui de l'Amour de YHWH
      QUE NOTRE VOLONTÉ EST DE CRAINDRE NOTRE CRÉATEUR. (Ps 112:1) (Ps 111:10)
      ÊTRE INTÈGRE EN TOUTES ACTIONS D'UNE MANIÈRE JUSTE. (Ps26:1)
      AINSI:
      Ils et Elles (vierge avisée) ne font plus partie de ce monde, car notre joie, est dans ce que nous accomplissons par notre volonté pour servir notre Dieu, Jéhovah. (MT 25:1 - 13)
      La Parole de Dieu nous partage, nous dicte la voie tracée, resserrée, qui nous mène au paradis.
      Notre espérance volontaire à servir et d'aimer notre Dieu Jehovah de tout notre coeur, de tout notre être, de tout notre âme, de tout notre esprit et tout notre force vitale (souffle de vie) (Mt22:37) (Deut 6:5)
      Notre Amour:
      Ce manifeste par nos chants.
      En exaltant son Nom dans notre ministère , 
      En annoncant son Nom et son royaume et sa justice. (Mt 24:14) (Mt 28:19:20)(Mt 6:33)
      Semons les graines de vérité, par ce fruit de l'esprit qui nourris la joie..
      La joie est de se purifier devant Jéhovah et devant son Roi, Jésus Christ.
      D'une manière juste,  qui se manifeste par les actions véritable venant du coeur
      qui reflète les exigences des normes de la justice de Dieu,
      Celle qui reflète les qualités de l'armure de la foi que NOUS  avons minitiueusement consu EN nous, EN SE LAISSANT GUIDER PAR LES PAROLES DE NOTRE DIEU TRANSMIT PAR SON FILS, qui nous donnera la joie de connaître pour toujours, l'Amour de YHWH.
      Maîtriser la joie est manié la bible comme une épée à deux tranchant, Semer les graines de vérités aux coeur de nos futur fidèles 
      Qui recherche toutes les connaissances de vérité de sa Sainte Parole. 
      Comme nous même, avant toute choses, devant  notre Dieu Jéhovah.
      Avoir le désir de le faire avec joie, par un coeur complet, pour le Bien.
      Comme Dieu enseigne le Bien.
      C'est notre purification intérieur qui reflète notre lumière extérieur. (Mt 5 : 14)
      Qui brillera dans l'obscurité, dans les périodes DE TOUT LES JOURS ET CELA JUSQU'À  la fin DE CE SYSTÈME DE CHOSES.
      Elle distingue une vibration d'ouverture de la vérité par ce qui est vraiment bon et vrai, en nous.
      Nous devons avoir la foi pour trouver la joie, car cela donne de la force et du courage
      contre les peurs qui sont attachés à nous, en nous.
      Par la connaissance de la bible, nous puissions s'alléger de nos peurs et s'élever par la foi et la bienveillance 
      Ainsi Bondir, sans redescendre,
      accomplir notre destiné, notre but que nous nous avons fixé dans notre coeur dans un sens unique, De faire la volonté de notre Créateur. 
      LE TRAVAIL PERSONNEL, le plus important de notre vie.
      Accomplir le chemin que Jéhovah nous a donné, le faire dans la joie.
      Recevoir la lumiere d'Amour de la vie Éternel PAR NOTRE DIEU CRÉATEUR TRANSMIT PAR SON OINT Jésus Christ.
      La joie apporte à ne pas renoncer et faire briller notre lumière telle 
      Une vierge avisée, qui garde en son coeur la connaissance du salut et qui travaille fort à garder sa lumière pure jusqu'aux jours de la grande guerre d' Harmaguédon. (Mt 25:1-13)
      Les serviteurs de Jéhovah fortifie leur joie par la demande de la connaissance ultime, par la prière, la lecture de la connaissance parfaite et de la méditation.
      Restons fidèle en toutes actions à la justice de Dieu
      Obéissons par l'humilité et le véritable Amour, celui qui vient de notre coeur et tout notre ensemble créé.
      La vertue de la Joie s'acquière en nous même, elle devient la protection contre toutes épreuves
      Nous devons et devront surmonter,  comme à l'exemple de Jésus Christ,  accomplir notre vie dans la pureté.
      Nous sommes des serviteurs de Jéhovah
      Notre maitrise de soi, que nous maîtrisons par des nos actions justes répéter aux jours le jours,
      pas à pas,  
      Égrandir notre foi, nous allègeant et nous libèrant des désirs mauvais, de ce système de choses.
      Notre joie grandit par la libération du filet destiné aux méchants, que nous étions destinés (Ps 9:15,16)
      Depuis notre naissance et que la parole de la vérité, nous apprenons à dénouer
      Les noeuds qui nous emprisonnent et qui nous empêche de gravir vers la liberté promise.
      Soyons patient et continuons à trouvé les clefs à chaques noeufs qui nous retiennent à ce monde et continuons 
      À se détacher de la tristesse de ce monde et demander de la joie à notre Dieu pour vibrer et s'aider 
      À se libérer de nos liens.
      La joie est ne jamais renoncer et garder les yeux fixés vers le But  de l'espérance de la promesse de YHWH.
      L'AMOUR LE FRUIT DE L'ESPRIT QUI NOUS GARDE EN VIE.
      TROUVONS LES GESTES QUI MANIFESTE L'AMOUR DE DIEU PAR NOUS MÊME. 
      (1cor 13 :4 à 8a)
      L'amour est patient et bon. L'amour n'est pas jaloux, il ne se vante pas, ne se gonfle pas d'orgueil.
      N'agit pas de façon inconvenante,  ne cherche pas ses propres intérêts, ne s'irrite pas.
      Il ne tient pas compte du mal subi. Il ne se réjouit pas de l'injustice, mais se réjouit avec la vérité.
      Il supporte tout, croit tout, endure tout.
      L'amour ne disparaît jamais.
      L’Amour est ce sentiment ineffable de la Paix et du Bonheur
      Qui emplit notre cœur et tout notre être.
      L’énergie d’Amour est la seule, l’unique,
      Celui qui nous lie à notre cœur conscient, à notre cœur confiant, à notre cœur relié à celui de Dieu par Jésus Christ. (Ps 25: 1, 2)
      C’est lui qui nous a créé tel que nous sommes, qui nourrit nos cellules à la sagesse parfaite, qui nous gardera en vie pour toujours.
      QUI nous fait vibrer au diapason de la Beauté Infinie de la Vérité parfaite (Ps 19: 7).
      Cet Amour Infini est en nous et nous élève sur tous les plans, dans toutes les dimensions de notre vie.
      Apprenons à recevoir ; ouvrons notre cœur.
      Apprenons à donner ; ouvrons notre cœur.
      Apprenons à faire circuler cette lumière de nos cœurs d’âmes vers les autres cœurs d’âmes QUE NOUS RECHERCHONS DANS TOUT LES TERRITOIRES AVANT SA VENU ULTIME celui de la fin de ce système de chose méchant.
      La seule beauté de vivre est l’Amour
      La seule beauté d’être est l’Amour
      La seule beauté de partager est l’Amour
      La seule beauté de grandir et d’évoluer est l’Amour
      L’Amour et l'unité sont le fondement de la création réelle et concrète de l’Univers DE TOUT CE QUI EXISTE DU VISIBLE À L'INVISIBLE.
      Croyons qu’à une seule Vérité ; celle de l’Amour de YHWH.
      Les enseignements de YHWH sont des clés pour notre intellect si prégnant, des berceuses à notre ego pour que le chemin apparaisse, libre de tous les obstacles.
      En nous est un Univers Infini,
      En nous est l’Amour Infini.
      Notre monde intérieur crée notre monde extérieur
      Notre maître intérieur est le reflet de celui qui nous parle, Jésus Christ, par son Père ( JEHOVAH YHWH )
      ALLONS en nous pour l’interroger (Ps 26 :2, 3)
      ALLONS vers Lui pour savoir reconnaître ce qui nous convient
      FAISONS LUI confiance car sans la confiance l'Amour n'existe pas. Laissons nous guider comme un enfant de Dieu.
      Notre vérité est en l'Unique vérité de l'Amour de Jehovah
      Notre Amour nous le partageons avec tous en unions avec notre Dieu et son Oint.
      Chacun de nous évolue à son rythme.
      Chacun de nous décide en toute conscience de suivre pas à pas ce chemin, car nous sommes libre et responsable de nos choix. ( Ps 25: 12)
      Nous sommes des Êtres merveilleux capables de créer et d’expérimenter pour le bien de tous. Nous pouvons tous aussi bien créer les difficultés dans notre vie, que des choses merveilleuses qui nous ressemblent à l'image de Dieu.
      Sachons partager notre temps en apprentissage et en application ; l’apprentissage passe par l’intellect et l’intégration au niveau du cœur et se réalise par les applications dans la vie de tous les jours.
      Il n’y a pas de personne « meilleure » qu’une autre.
      C’est nous-même ou entre nous que nous installons différents niveaux d’amour car tout est à l'intérieur de nous.
      Apprenons simplement à être "Qui nous sommes".
      Apprenons à devenir Qui nous sommes par Amour et dans l’Amour, des bontés de coeur de notre Dieu YHWH.
      Et si nous ne savons comment faire, ouvrons notre cœur vers l’intérieur par la prière et la méditation, en nous acceptant tel que nous sommes, en nous aimant tel que nous sommes en nous laissant guider par les pas de Jésus Christ notre Roi Sauveur.
      Soyons comme des enfants de Dieu
      Le vrai Amour est l'amour Inconditionnel agapè, celui qui fut créé par la Sagesse universel qui fut transmit par son Oint Jésus Christ notre Roi.
      Celle qui vient de Dieu et qui se manifeste par son Esprit Saint que nous recevons quand nous sommes des enfants aimés de Jéhovah.
      Que notre amour ce lie par notre volonté de servir à jamais le Dieu d'Amour qui créa toute choses et dont sa promesse est de vivre pour toujours
      Dans un univers parfait remplis de joie, de paix et d'une santé parfaite ( Révélation 21 : 3, 4)
      Louons YHWH JEHOVAH pour toujours.
      Gloire à notre Créateur Tout Puissant Eternel  YHWH, Gloire à son fils Jésus Christ, le Roi des Roi et de son Esprit Saint.
      JESUS  À DIT: Il y a six principes pour réussir sa vie OUI  SEPT PRINCIPES, LES VOICI:
       
      LA MAÎTRISE DE SOI
      GALATES 5:19à21 et 22 à 23 )
      1 Laissez l’argent à la place qui lui revient
      “ L’amour de l’argent est une racine de toutes sortes de choses mauvaises, et en aspirant à cet amour quelques-uns se sont [...] transpercés partout de bien des douleurs. ” (1 Timothée 6:10). 
      2 Cultivez la générosité
      “ Il y a plus de bonheur à donner qu’à recevoir. ” (Actes 20:35)
      3 Pardonnez volontiers
      “ Continuez [...] à vous pardonner volontiers les uns aux autres, si quelqu’un a un sujet de plainte contre un autre. Tout comme Jéhovah vous a pardonné volontiers, vous aussi faites de même. ” (Colossiens 3:13)
       4 Observez les normes divines
      “ Le commandement de Jéhovah est pur, faisant briller les yeux. ” (Psaume 19:8). 
      5 Faites preuve d’un amour désintéressé
      “ L’amour bâtit. ” (1 Corinthiens 8:1). 
      6 Soyez conscient de votre “ pauvreté spirituelle ”
      “ Heureux ceux qui sont conscients de leur pauvreté spirituelle. ” (Matthieu 5:3)
      ▪ Ayez une crainte salutaire de Dieu. “ La crainte de Jéhovah est le début de la sagesse. ” — Proverbes 9:10.
      ▪ Choisissez judicieusement vos amis. “ Qui marche avec les sages deviendra sage, mais qui a des relations avec les stupides s’en trouvera mal. ” — Proverbes 13:20.
      ▪ Rejetez les excès. “ Ivrogne et glouton tomberont dans la pauvreté. ” — Proverbes 23:21.
      ▪ Ne cherchez pas à vous venger. “ Ne rendez à personne le mal pour le mal. ” — Romains 12:17.
      ▪ Soyez travailleur. “ Si quelqu’un ne veut pas travailler, qu’il ne mange pas non plus. ” — 2 Thessaloniciens 3:10.
      ▪ Appliquez la Règle d’or. “ Tout ce que vous voulez que les hommes fassent pour vous, de même vous aussi, vous devez le faire pour eux. ” — Matthieu 7:12.
      ▪ Maîtrisez votre langue. “ Celui qui veut aimer la vie et voir des jours heureux, qu’il garde sa langue de ce qui est mauvais. ” — 1 Pierre 3:10.
      Accomplir et maîtriser ceci, c'est découvrir les plus beau secrets de l'univers de Jéhovah. 

      ERIC OUELLET
       


      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Bonjour pour tout ceux qui veulent être avec nous, pour être ensemble en cette soirée mémorable.
      Voici le lien pour avoir accès au mémorial de la commémoration de la mort de JÉSUS CHRIST.
       
      Ce cadeau si grand que Dieu à démontrer son amour INFINI pour tout les humains de la terre.
      Celui qui nous a démontré la personnalité de Dieu par ses actions envers tous.
      Les paroles de Mathieu, Marc, Luc, Jean et tout les autres livres de la bible démontre qu'il fut la Parole vivante et en action pour nous montrer l'exemple à suivre c'est pas.
      Nous sommes heureux que tous puissent participer à cela en direct en téléchargeant ce vidéo.
      Pour la mémoire de notre Sauveur JÉSUS CHRIST gardons ensemble le respect de L'Amour de Dieu pour démontrer votre respect envers le Fils le plus grand modèle de foi et de pureté que la terre a porté autrefois.
      Sa beauté intérieur peut jaïllir en nous en respectant ensemble de se recueillir et participer ce soir au REPAS du Seigneur JÉSUS CHRIST qui fut approuvé par Dieu.
      Au plaisir d'être avec nous avec coeur et joie.
      Bonne soirée 
      19:30 est le début de ce recueillement important.
      Nous sommes le 14 NISAN depuis 18:00, honorons ce que notre Roi Jésus à demandé.
      Bonne soirée à tous.
       
       
       
      https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=share&prefer=content&applanguage=F&locale=fr&item=pub-mo-tk20r_42_VIDEO&docid=1011214
      · 1 reply
    • Eric Ouellet

      https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=share&prefer=content&applanguage=F&locale=fr&item=pub-mo-tk20r_42_VIDEO&docid=1011214
      · 0 replies
    • Michael Krewson

      Did you all see Jared Kushner tell the states that the stockpile was "our"?  As in the Federal governments. Incredible.
      · 0 replies
    • admin

      Day X of quarantine

      · 0 replies
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