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'I Do Not Know Why We Persecute Jehovah's Witnesses,' Putin Says


TrueTomHarley

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2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Getting 8 million people to write the same set of letters is not as impressive to him as it seems to us, because it only proves that the very thing he doesn't want in a Russian religion, exists to the nth degree in our religion: that everyone follows orders from the same HQ outside of Russia.

 

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If my understanding of the Russian Mind ... and Putin's mind is correct, he is going to reverse the prosecution of Jehovahs'a Witnesses, before 2020, as I stated two days ago on another thread.

He thinks like an adult, when all around him, on BOTH sides, everyone else is thinking like petulant children.

I rest my case.

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In Russian "преследовать" can be translated as "prosecute" or "persecute". Maybe it is better to ask the president what did he mean by saying this :D 

Just a little more longwinded opinion here. I think his tone and most of his words were intended to portray himself as someone who recognizes that there were and are human rights issues to take c

JTR: I agree with you here. If you look at the entire meeting, the word "prosecute" was used in the translation a few of the other times, even in similar contexts. Judicial prosecution was already the

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5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The RoC are like children, if they cry about something, Putin will take action directly and or indirectly.

Bible principles everywhere, even in satan's world :))) 

“So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,

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10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Getting 8 million people to write the same set of letters is not as impressive to him as it seems to us, because it only proves that the very thing he doesn't want in a Russian religion, exists to the nth degree in our religion: that everyone follows orders from the same HQ outside of Russia.

Yes, but one will never be able to hide this. It will be the same as trying to hide other things about us that the general world finds unpopular. Detractors will always be bringing it up & then we are in the position of trying to downplay or even deny it.

No. We are what we are. And it is a good thing, not a bad thing, so that we should not skulk around as though it were not so. It is enough to convey the impression that the first thing we do in any land is ask the “king” what are his rules for maintaining public order, and then we follow them. We convey truthfully that we have unity & that it is no threat to him.

Having said that, the next writing campaign will feature photos of all the GB eating borscht so that it will be clear that Western JWs take their marching orders from Russia & not the other way around.

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@TrueTomHarley Well stuff like this will be difficult because you have several groups under the Kremlin before anything reaches the top. It is like a game, in some sense, whereas Putin is all the way on level 100 and you are trying to get through the other 99 levels to reach him. The only reason there was some difficulty last time because A, you had the Russians dealing with Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev, you had several other protesting going on also, for instance, the Alexei Navalny Heroes (who ended up being FSB'd via a face recognition website), and a list of other things, and what took place in Chechnya. and B would be you had faith opposition and atheist who caught on who wrote to Russia themselves.

So consider that a struggle that is embedded in several of these, said levels.

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On 12/22/2018 at 8:51 PM, JW Insider said:

The relevant portion is translated through bing as follows. I don't speak Russian, but can just about read it phonetically 

I asked Chivchalov about this. (he the one who covered trial & appeal in a steady stream of tweets) Putin said persecute, he said, not prosecute.

So I emailed your Bing list of verbs. He said: “Yes, persecute can be close to prosecute in Russian in a narrow sense of legal prosecution. For example, "судебное преследование" will be "prosecution." But Putin didn't say that. He said "persecution" in the general sense.”

You hear that, you big @James Thomas Rook Jr.? He said persecute.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You hear that, you big @James Thomas Rook Jr.? He said persecute.

That is why in my original objection, I said I would need TWO (or more) competent Russian speakers .... It's like going to a Doctor and when he tells you something you suspect is not right, and you mention that you will need a second opinion.

He responds thoughtfully and says ... "OK ... you are also ugly."

If he was a Russian Orthodox Priest, I would assume he said "persecute".

In my considered opinion, the President of the Russian Federation would NEVER use that word, as it carries the connotation of being arbitrary and capricious, petulant and evil.

For those and previously explained specific reasons .... I reject that he used the word "persecute".

It is obvious that he never read a single letter of the 6 million or so sent him by Jehovah's witnesses, (although he probably enjoyed the $56,000,000 dollars the Brotherhood via the Universal Postal Union gave him for NOT delivering them), so perhaps if you would write him ONE single letter, via the Russian Embassy in Washington, DC, he or the embassy will answer.

After all .... it's YOUR topic, and YOUR thread.

Be a sport .... do the homework to its conclusion.

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Be a sport .... do the homework to its conclusion.

Speaking to the Russian citizen who was most active in reporting events as they unfolded will be accepted as ‘doing my homework’ in all minds but yours. (if it can be called that, in view of such stubbornness)

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@TrueTomHarley One thing for certain. If the faith group in question having recreational time at a beach only to be stalked and taken by FSB affiliates to be held and interrogated, that is persecution. If a Russian professor is telling his students to target a girl because of her faith, sending underlings to speak of her even slander her, that is persecution. If religious folk is being targeted using the same tech the FSB used for Alexei Navalny Heroes, with the focus of reporting, calling, and confronting, that in of itself is persecution.

The irony of it all, some Russians have been vocal about the twisting of Yarovaya law, but must of that was swept under the rug, or in this case, tossed out of the 10th floor of an apartment building, down into the bushes whereas no one would think to find it.

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It may sound inhumane for some, but why should one wonder, questioning that one nation (Russia) wants to have its dominant religion and culture above others. If that is the reason what is happening there.


Actually, JW should understand that situation more than the Russians themselves. The JW accept the reality that there was one nation (Jews) in the past. It was not an "ordinary" people, but God's chosen people, which became a nation. There were laws in that nation. The most important law was to worship only a Jewish god. Every other form of religion brought death to a child, a woman, a man, or a family who served another god.


Today, we supposedly live in a different time, so-called advanced time. In which we can have and live different and even opposite views, beliefs. The WT supports a "struggle, fight" for equality and freedom for everyone to believe and speak and freely adore their god. Every JW member of the church also believes in such a "democratic" right. But, the JW member forgets a very uncomfortable fact. His present freedom to practice his religion is not a product of the Jewish god of the Bible, but of "secular" laws.


In the "future JW world" there will not be place for freedom of religion and worship. Any deviation from the "true" JW religion will be in the 3P formula, = prosecuted, persecuted and punished.

Does JW members not see how they alone generate same kind of 3P formula for decades?! How? By their rules and laws about disfellowshiping, shunning, ignoring, avoiding of those JW who changed their views on doctrinal matters and Bible interpretations of WT !!  JW members have own "little Russia" inside boarders of their Spiritual Paradise. :))

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