Are JWs in America back on the 'door to door' work now ?

[Dmitar]

To the readers. What @Patiently waiting for Truth is selling to you here is fertilizer.

An account of a real Jehovah's Witness experience.

"I was baptized in 1966 so I was there in 1975 and it had absolutely no effect on me nor anyone in my very large family. The reason that it had no effect on 99.9% of Witnesses is because most were listening to what was really being said and not speculating. They were NOT saying that the end would come in 1975."

[Thinking]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

All of it, Dimitar. It’s all gone. Every verse of it I’ve separated. Not a syllable is left.

There. Happy?

Now please, shine your weird paranoid malignant presence that you would have us believe is Christianity whereas anyone can plainly see that you display by far the least Christlike personality of anyone here—please shine it on someone else.

I honestly don’t think he is…no witness would talk as he has and does but he does have a lot of info and good at chronology….I think he’s a plant to cause divisions ..and he’s very good at it,

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You made pure repetition from WT magazines. Nothing unknown to me.

So unknown yet you cannot produce any evidence to your claim.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Obviously you skipped some WTJWorg articles. AGAIN! :))) Here are quotes just from one WT study magazine. For "stellar mind" would be enough.

I didn't skip anything, this isn't the first time we've been through this. @Witness original posts was traced back to the 2018, 2019 and 2020. I even attest to the fact why is this brought back again after it was debunked.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Especially since the spiritually invigorating year 1919, the anointed remnant of Christ’s brothers fearlessly presented God’s judgments, powerful messages of calamity, to Christendom. ..............

Over the last seven decades, in conjunction with proclaiming the glorious hope of Jehovah’s incoming Kingdom, Jehovah’s Witnesses have spread around the world a veritable flood of denunciation and judgment...............

Have Jehovah’s Witnesses toned down God’s judgment? True, we live in an age when criticizing another religion is not considered the thing to do. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Witnesses’ publications are spelling out the same message of judgment for Christendom as always..................

Therefore, Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to visit the people of the nations with a message that stings the majority as an unpopular judgment but is happifying good news for a minority—the good news of God’s Kingdom

And what does this have to do with 1975 whereas both you and @Witness are willfully lying?

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Again. Manipulative construction and delusion projected onto the interlocutor. Sad.

Sure. Yet the thread in which both you and @Witness were exposed on this already, one of your own stated the camps were made for JWs and they were the primary target, which makes absolutely no sense.

You call it manipulation yet you were the one who attest to that notion, which evidence in the thread cited.

Do not play the fool, Srecko, for the both of you were brutally checked with facts about American History, as is Germany.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is a narrow conclusion without the possibility of seeing the message expressed through the illustration. Don't you see the "hidden message" in the comment?

There was no hidden message. Your past mannerism whenever you cannot attest to claim at random you will abruptly say or do something that makes no sense in order to throw someone off, that is referred to as a Red Herring Fallacy. In the countless debates and discussion I been through, something of this nature is easily discerned, likewise with Appeals to Motives, which you constantly do on a daily basis when you put yourself into a challenge.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Your computer (in other words, You) selectively refuses to display text that has the power to refute (your) uttered claims, so in order to be satisfied with its (own) “logic” it pretends to have nothing (in sight) but what it (you) wants to see.  

Another Appeal to Motive. Keep them coming, it further exposes the mentality who follows a man who lied to wife. Charming.

That being said, you are the last person to speak of logic here. You were shown to not be up there in critical thinking and you lack the ability to do research. You even confused a library with something unrelated, which makes no sense. You were also shown to defend Trinitarians not realizing they used you as a tool, like they did with @Witness. If @Cos was right about one thing, it is about some EXJW who cannot comprehend things, even history.

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Truthers do not lie.

We do not lie. And also do a lot of research in regards to a lot of things, even serious situations, other cases, some of our own suffered, but it does not stop us for seeking what truth is. even the best of us, likewise to our counterparts, the preppers.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Christians do not lie.

Christians are to produce a true witness, and call out a false witness. Clearly, you are using a narrative based on assumption and no evidence of which you claim can be found.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All Truthers are Christians.

Do you realize these are different things. Different communities.

Some Truthers are Christian, others are not Christian. Serena Shim was simply a Journalist, I am not a Journalist as with some of the rest.

Although Christians are to speak truth, the latter community goes beyond that. This is why when I make the difference between the aware and unaware, I make note to it.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All Christians are Truthers. 

Again missing 2 things together without know the latter. Not too long ago you attempted to use a definition without even knowing the history, therefore showing yourself to be ignorant. One thing for certain, they do have tabs on your community.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If you quote me, please quote entire comment, in context. Context explains all :))

Even if people quote you, you ignore your own words. Not too long ago we saw @Witness did the same thing.

Quote or to call back, is to better expose the narrative you are pushing. It also proves Kel to be right about what he said about EXJWs being totally lost, even damaged.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Don't you have sense for humor? and SM debate logic? 

Sure. At least some of us can produce facts and evidence, to know what is true and what is false.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I used the "generalization" model to show how wrong logic leads to wrong conclusions.

But you led yourself to wrong conclusions numerous times. 1900s, Glasgow, when you attacked God's Friend, Abraham, the claim you made that Chloe led the church in which @Witness didn't bother to correct you because of Pearl's narrative. Not acknowledgment of members of your community who were hit, no acknowledgment of the one you follow to have been with multiple women, possibly underaged.

The list goes on. You may just be as misguided as Witness at this point, the only difference is you are capable of speaking for yourself whereas she cannot, for Pearl speaks for her.

That being said, again, I encourage you, do the research and don't peddle falsehood as a truth, it is a disgusting thing, for you cannot be of God and dine with the Devil at his table, it makes no sense.

 

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I have no reasons of my own. I see falsehood or deception, I call it out, with facts/evidence if needed, nothing more.

Falsehood and deception?   If you indeed "call it out", you would question just why 1975 was a topic among the leadership of the Watchtower, since false prophets are described in Deut 18:20-22,  labeling the Wt's leaders as such, when all of the Armageddon dates failed.  You would question their continuous change in doctrine, when Jesus told his disciples to "produce fruit that would last". (John 15:16)  You would question why they push men's doctrine that contradicts the word of God, since Jesus blamed the Pharisees for teaching doctrine of men. (Mark 7:7)

 Instead, you take a topic and narrow down your focus onto one thing, letters of words that to you "prove" 1975 is...what, NOT a lie, NOT a false prediction?  Then, you call exjws, the liars because they know how the organization works.  You disregard the point that Watchtower danced around the topic every way they wanted, successfully misleading thousands to believe them - that Armageddon would arrive in 1975.  And then, when it didn't happen, the members receive the blame for the leadership's lies.  

That - the fact that the leaders are false prophets, and not following the teachings of Jesus Christ, is what you could "call out"; but instead, you seem to defend the leaders and their lies.   What sort of "Truther" Preacher are you?  

Here is a backward glance to 1975, which targets the year:

"In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man's existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility . It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.  Wt 3/15/1980  
 

Did they stress it as "only a possibility" one hundred percent of the time?  No.  They bolstered their lie, and then they downplayed their lie.   As I said, they danced around, back and forth:

"Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?...Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (km 5/1974, p. 3)

 'It also tells us that this millennium must be preceded immediately by the most destructive war in all human history. We can now see the political rulers... being gathered... for that War of all wars....' (Wt 7/1/1974)

Post 1975 - 

"It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." Wt 7/15/1976

Oh!  Now they are chastised for neglecting their homes and property that they were commended for selling, in order to pioneer.

Who "missed the point"?  Who had the "mistaken view"?  Well, who "published" the articles?  Who approved the articles? 

This religion is an organization built on lies from the beginning.  It's leaders are false prophets, according to the word of God.  If one looked into their Insight book under "prophets" it clearly proves that Wt  leaders are false prophets. So, I will continue to call them out for it, just as you are trying so hard to call me out as a liar.  

You, spin your wheels trying to take down people who realize this - people who lived it, lived the lie of 1975 and all the other failed dates, as well as their continuous need to change their "understanding".  Their biggest lie?   Hmmm.  1914  

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy[c] comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits[e] in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God."  2 Thess 2:1-4

 

  

Done now!

 

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

4 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Oh do be quiet SM. (That was being polite)

And Butler himself. Seems more of a sarcastic remark, no different from your other mannerism even as your last 2 tenures, as did the one when Admin got invovled.

4 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Show me exactly where I said the above about JWs. We all know it was promoted amongst JWs from the mid 1960's. Someone even showed a W/t magazine from around '67 which wrote about being in the 'last part of the last day', and then there was some mention of a JW Elder saying from the platform "Stay alive 'till 75".

 

1975 being the the start of God's Day was never promoted by them, therefore, the latter leaned on speculation.

Here are your receipts. The majority knows the context of 1975, but as pointed out, you and the others attested otherwise. As seen below:

  

On 7/9/2021 at 6:29 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes indeed. Didn't the Leaders of the Watchtower BLAME the CONGREGANTS  for 'getting it wrong about 1975' 

  

On 6/30/2021 at 9:39 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Perhaps you would say that to the Governing Body of the Watchtower / JW Org.  They are very keen on dates and especially giving false prophecy. 'the last part of the last day of last days' . 1941, 1975. Before the year 2000 et al.

On 5/22/2020 at 6:05 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

From 1966, statements in Jehovah's Witness publications raised strong expectations that Armageddon could arrive in 1975.

  

On 5/23/2020 at 1:57 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

@Space Merchant

i.e. said claim of yours stated that they said Armageddon would happen on 1975, but there was no claim made by them to suggest such, anywhere.

 

could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them." 

Watchtower 1968 Aug 15 p.494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

On 3/25/2020 at 10:53 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Didn't a similar thing happen in the early 1970's ? Didn't brothers/sisters sell their homes, live in their garages,  give up full time jobs, get into debt ,all because the GB / CCJW said that Armageddon around 1975 ? Whether 1975 was actually put in writing is not important because we all know it was more than a 'suggested' date. 

  

On 11/10/2020 at 3:52 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

C.C that is so lame.   .  Try harder than that. It doesn't matter what happened AFTER 1975. What matters is that the Leaders of the CCJW were WRONG. 

So the CCJW is built on a very flawed foundation with many mistakes and false promises. 

THAT IS NOT GOD'S FAULT, NOR IS IT CHRIST'S FAULT.  It is the  fault of MEN. The MEN that have led your religion.

On 10/12/2020 at 8:42 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Um, not exactly is it ?  What it is, is false teachings. Including 1914, in my opinion. The idea of Armageddon threatened many times. The 1960's false teachings about Armageddon and 1975 'Stay alive 'till 75'. 

  

On 7/28/2020 at 7:03 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I can seriously relate this to the Governing Body and the Watchtower / CCJW. 

falsely interpreting signs = Signs of the times of the end

making false predictions = The 1960's through 1975. And even now 'We are living in the Final part of the Final day'

  

On 6/6/2020 at 10:57 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

This would have been when they were teaching the 7,000 year Creative days. And the 6,000th year of God's Rest day.  And dare i say teaching 1975 as the coming Armageddon. 

 

There is more as your last tenure, 2Jah4me, as is John Butler.

The truth of the matter is, nowhere did they state the day is of that year, it was more inline with what they stated regarding human history, those who speculative saw differently, hence the claim of which @Witness and @Srecko Sostar is pushing as a truth.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I have a close relative who is a JW Elder and he knows that JWs WERE selling their houses and leaving their jobs, to preach full time.

This was because of a speculative narrative. It was already addressed that there were those who took context in what was said, and then there were those who assume otherwise, hence the action was taken. This was said several times in this thread.

The God's Day notion also breaks even further due to people still preaching, for it contradicts Matthew 24 and 25 concerning the end of the gospel work.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Just because the Leaders didn't print it in the Watchtower does not mean that they were not promoting it in other ways.

They never promoted 1975 was indeed the day, be it vocal or in whatever publication they had, your latter statement said otherwise when you attempt to show me an archived citation, which does not even suggest that.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But you, like all others, only believe what you want to believe, because it fits your agenda. 

This is a matter of truth, the only Agenda is pushing a narrative based on speculation to profess it as a truth, which is a problem. Funny you use that term yet you fell for an Alt-Right and a Leftist article meant to draw emotion and speculation.

The notion was leading more into the history of human existence, granted ALL Christians know the End is near concerning End Times, in this case, no one believed it to be 1975 expect those who speculate and spread information, thus reap the action, as to what was mentioned, even by you. Only to later be weaponized as a truth, when it is not.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And what 'community' exactly do you say I belong to ? 

You are of the EXJW community, are you not? Some of the things cited by you, even in the past, shows that, i.e. showing a book often pushed by said community that has outlandish views of your former faith, so outlandish that it is deem highly questionable, although you did not read; pushed it without knowing what it entails, you sided with @Srecko Sostar briefly prior to me calling out what was in it. To make the matter even worse, the author being in connection with the Kairos Movement, of which is everyone, even everyone here, to you, to me, Srecko, JWI, Witness, Dmitar, etc.

The community has a thing for pushing misinformation and half-truths, so much so even some among their own go against them. This is the same community that killed something in it's tracks which could benefit both JWs and EXJWs, related to what you are always talking about.

5 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Dimmy has one thing right. There is NO spirituality here. 

Yet you lack discernment to know who is telling the truth here. Christians should display that, for someone who changed their name to patiently seeking truth, you are not applying here, thus clouded judgment. 

That being said, learn to open your eyes next time around, and I say that politely, as I do with all misguided.

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Instead, you take a topic and narrow down your focus onto one thing, letters of words that to you "prove" 1975 is...what, NOT a lie, NOT a false prediction?  Then, you call exjws, the liars because they know how the organization works. 

In this case, you are a bunch of liars since you insist people see the complete picture while you ignore it. Now, in your case, you identify yourself as Christian while behaving like @TrueTomHarley. Then he complains how others are not acting like a Christian, while telling the visitor to ignore the truth about Present and Former Jehovah's Witnesses acting like a bunch of thugs to the truth.

[Space Merchant]

24 minutes ago, Witness said:

Falsehood and deception?

Yes. This is something I am highly against, and always say this, perhaps stronger than my disdain for those who came up from the 4th century thinking they are the original Christians.

25 minutes ago, Witness said:

 If you indeed "call it out", you would question just why 1975 was a topic among the leadership of the Watchtower, since false prophets are described in Deut 18:20-22,  labeling the Wt's leaders as such, when all of the Armageddon dates failed.

They never predicted 1975 to be God's Day, nor did they publish it. In the same citation @Srecko Sostarused, it even attested to that notion. He purposely didn't cite the full paragraph because it would defeat his narrative, as it did yours in the original post from where I quoted you.

1975 was never a date for God's Day, for it was, you'd have legitimate evidence.

Since it is unfounded, the claim is false.

27 minutes ago, Witness said:

Instead, you take a topic and narrow down your focus onto one thing, letters of words that to you "prove" 1975 is...what, NOT a lie, NOT a false prediction?

More so evidence of the notion of God's Day equating to 1975. You were asked this in your original post, then you were asked for that same notion, you never provided anything of the sort but simply gave me images pertaining to End Times and Human Existence.

If you truly speak truth, you'd realize what you were posting. More so, when there is speculation, you automatically assume it to be true not realizing the core problem. This is why when you utter the word "Truth" to link it with whatever you say, 1 John 4:1 is automatically used against you, and many times, you shown yourself to disrespect that verse from the Holy Bible itself.

The first time you ever posted the thread a while back, I did an ample amount of research, in between debates, I have talked to people who were well aware of happened that day, some of them even JWs, some even EXJWs who didn't believe the narrative you spin here.

31 minutes ago, Witness said:

You disregard the point that Watchtower danced around the topic every way they wanted, successfully misleading thousands to believe them - that Armageddon would arrive in 1975.  And then, when it didn't happen, the members receive the blame for the leadership's lies.  

Unfortunately I didn't. They spoke of End Times and Human existence, but never God's Day on 1975, this is why the claim of speculation was deem true, speculation causes people to take action. Because of it, it enabled even arguments and discussions between JWs who didn't believe 1975 to be the end, vs the ones that did, as did the actions they took assuming the end was legitimate when it was not.

Speculative narratives are nothing new. For one understands context, the other makes assumptions.

Sadly, no head pastor for the JWs around that time ever made the claim, likewise with whatever they wrote in those days. Some would bring up someone from your former faith known as Franz, but they take his words out of context, I believe @JW Insider made mention to that concerning what Allen had said a while back; hence where I pulled the quotation.

35 minutes ago, Witness said:

That - the fact that the leaders are false prophets, and not following the teachings of Jesus Christ, is what you could "call out"; but instead, you seem to defend the leaders and their lies.   What sort of "Truther" Preacher are you?  

It isn't about Defense, it is about the Truth in situations that is obscured by falsehood and deception, this notion of your former faith, fits this description.

Again, you bring up the Term Truther, yet you do not know what that entails.

Truthers hate falsehood and deception regardless of what it is, they do not lie misconceptions, some of them dig themselves so much into the Truth of what they find it reaps even that of consequence for some, to others, a rejoiceful situation which indirectly enables others to do good and remedy themselves.

I am as I am, as is being a defender of the gospel, so whenever it comes to dealing with falsehood, be it of the community or not, it will be refuted with facts and evidence.

39 minutes ago, Witness said:

Here is a backward glance to 1975, which targets the year:

"In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man's existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility . It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.  Wt 3/15/1980

It does not target the year to be God's Day, it cites it briefly in regards to eagerness and expectations made by some (which is true due to the following paragraphs), hence what was said earlier in the other pages concerning speculation. Further evidence as seen below in your citation:

[... commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.]

Speculation, as which can be seen they alluded to that concerning the latter citation.

It goes on to speak of the following concerning the effects of human errors vs one's faith in what God's promises.

51 minutes ago, Witness said:

Did they stress it as "only a possibility" one hundred percent of the time?  No.  They bolstered their lie, and then they downplayed their lie.   As I said, they danced around, back and forth:

If you read the connecting paragraphs, it mentioned the human error via speculation made by some. To simply read one paragraph from your source and not read the others, doesn't help you with your narrative.

Concerning human errors by those who made the assumption your source said the following:

[Nevertheless, there is no reason for us to be shaken in faith in God’s promises. Rather, as a consequence, we are all moved to make a closer examination of the Scriptures regarding this matter of a day of judgment. In doing so, we find that the important thing is not the date.]

Apparently your former faith was well aware of the moves made by those who assume 1975 to be the end, hence error vs God's promise.

54 minutes ago, Witness said:

"Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?...Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (km 5/1974, p. 3)

Unfortunately this has nothing to do with 1975 and God's Day. The citation was focused on preaching the gospel before God's Day, which is something known by all Christians concerning the Messianic Age. To be a minister, although JWs refer to it as pioneers. Granted the concluding remarks of that citation, it shows that your faith community had apparently an abundance of zeal when it came to gospel preaching, granted, preaching the gospel in those days was something looked upon as something good and honest. Ironically, it cites an important verses, of which you left out, 1 John 2:17.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Oh!  Now they are chastised for neglecting their homes and property that they were commended for selling, in order to pioneer.

To preach the gospel, therefore, the claim of them selling their houses because the JWs at the time said God's Day will happened, was indeed false. In fact, as mentioned, your whole source talks about ministering primarily.

Also if God's Day was 1975, preaching the gospel would not be done at all, hence Matthew 24 and 25. Granted the gospel is to spread, and for a time the gospel preaching would stop, and soon, God's Day. As we can see, in your source, their was zeal to become ministers. You were told this in your original thread.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Who "missed the point"?  Who had the "mistaken view"?  Well, who "published" the articles?  Who approved the articles? 

Well whomever it was they

• [A] Made reference to those who speculated, hence emphasis on human error vs God's promise.
• [B] The push for becoming ministers whereas there was a lot of zeal to preach the Messianic Age. This goes hand in hand with the Commission.

The end is near indeed, never that year in question.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

This religion is an organization built on lies from the beginning.  It's leaders are false prophets, according to the word of God.  If one looked into their Insight book under "prophets" it clearly proves that Wt  leaders are false prophets. So, I will continue to call them out for it, just as you are trying so hard to call me out as a liar.  

From the beginning? Not quite, the shortest answer to that is The Great Awakening otherwise known as the Christian Revival, and the history around that. Jehovah's Witnesses never existed around that time, it was a millenarian restorationist group known as Bible Students who were not as organized and were still looking into the early church themselves. They only became Jehovah's Witnesses around the 1930s, and, to correct you again, they were never Hitler's primary target.

That being said, you are a lair. I quoted you word for word, and you are doing the same thing as before. You lie many times as is mixing verses. Then again, you never speak for yourself, the one above you does.

Also outside of this banter, you were shown to not know what a prophet inspired and a prophet not inspired. So you are the last person to make this notion.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

You, spin your wheels trying to take down people who realize this - people who lived it, lived the lie of 1975 and all the other failed dates, as well as their continuous need to change their "understanding".

I talked to people who were around during that time, one of them still works for NASA, possibly retired by now. I had talked to others in the debating circle, as is the WXJW who were too afraid to make their view known to their own community, hence what happened to the YouTuber. I even seen people who gave their own experience despite not being part of the faith community at all. Several more, of whom I mentioned in the past prior to actually doing the research on that day.

And to them, they did have discussion with those who believed in speculation, hence they knew the truth about 1975, and evidently, call out the falsehood.

therefore, they never made the claim, nor did they publish it. This is why the speculation was denounced as human error of their own understanding.

That being said, when you been around, learning and doing research outside of the realm of debates, you find this.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

 'It also tells us that this millennium must be preceded immediately by the most destructive war in all human history. We can now see the political rulers... being gathered... for that War of all wars....' (Wt 7/1/1974)

And? War is Real. War is Hell. And speaking of war and politicians, there are things the majority may not be aware about concerning such, even JWs.

We had the The Portuguese Colonial War, The Cold War, Indo-Pak War, The bloodshed of Bangladesh, etc. To this day, some of that history is obscure, but those who seek truth, will expose it for the world to see, so that falsehood is put in it's place.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

"It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." Wt 7/15/1976

Mistaken view, hence speculation. Indeed, they missed the point.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Oh!  Now they are chastised for neglecting their homes and property that they were commended for selling, in order to pioneer.

You're mixing 2 notions together now.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Their biggest lie?   Hmmm.  1914  

Reslight will have a field day with this one. He stated the remarks made by EXJW to be false, his notion was used in one of your older articles, as it was with the Trinitarians.

That being said, you were also challenged on this too, and in those days it was not only the Bible Students who saw the year was associated with Jesus' Kingship, of which, in the past, you watered down.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy[c] comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits[e] in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God."  2 Thess 2:1-4

And yet no one uttered such or wrote such, but you claim otherwise. Therefore, you are using the Holy Book in vain.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Done now!

You are done, and what did you in was your original posts.

That being said, I say this to you again, do the research and use critical thinking, it is one thing to be a tool to your community, it is another to be one of the Mainstream.

Kel was right to say that EXJW who lack such, are lost.

[Dmitar]

5 hours ago, Thinking said:

I honestly don’t think he is…no witness would talk as he has and does

Does this mean you want me to behave like an apostate like you? NEVER!! I have more Christianity in my pinky than you do with your entire family.

[Dmitar]

1 minute ago, Space Merchant said:

I believe @JW Insider made mention to that concerning what Allen had said a while back; hence where I pulled the quotation.

Let's not twist the narrative. JWI conclusion was that Fred Franz promoted 1975 to the error presentation given here. Fred Franz himself told people NOT to speculate and put dates upon the arrival of the 6000 years of man's existence. That is recorded. Therefore, JWI was wrong to align himself with that former JW narrative of 1975.

What Brother Franz said was taken out of context. 

*** w66 10/15 p. 631 Rejoicing over “God’s Sons of Liberty” Spiritual Feast ***
‘What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?’ asked Brother Franz. ‘Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah’s witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.
 

To Jehovah's Witnesses. We've been living in the last days way before 1975. Now we are living in the last days even closer. So indeed, Time is short, Time is running out, no question about it. It is much the truth back then as it is today.

Therefore, Franz was answering a question from an intuitive young one.

*** w66 10/15 p. 631 Rejoicing over “God’s Sons of Liberty” Spiritual Feast ***
At the Baltimore assembly Brother Franz in his closing remarks made some interesting comments regarding the year 1975. He began casually by saying, “Just before I got on the platform a young man came to me and said, ‘Say, what does this 1975 mean? Does it mean this, that or any other thing?’” In part, Brother Franz went on to say: ‘You have noticed the chart [on pages 31-35 in the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God]. It shows that 6,000 years of human experience will end in 1975, about nine years from now. What does that mean? Does it mean that God’s rest day began 4026 B.C.E.? It could have. The Life Everlasting book does not say it did not. The book merely presents the chronology. You can accept it or reject it. If that is the case, what does that mean to us? [He went into some length showing the feasibility of the 4026 B.C.E. date as being the beginning of God’s rest day.]

What would God's rest represent, if it came in 1975? Does it mean after God's creation and God rested, is God still at rest? Giving Satan full control of humanity from way back then? Or does it mean after 1975, Satan gathered full control of humanity to cause more harm to it, as seen by historical events that we can now experience first hand with the war in Ukraine.
 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

one of your own stated the camps were made for JWs and they were the primary target,

Haha.

1) Boy who you talking about is not of my own. The fact that the author of the video you’re talking about has stopped being a JW doesn’t prove that all former JWs come together to be together. Conclusion; You making rumor and slender here on forum.

2) His statement is not my statement and I Never made agreement with such statement. Conclusion: Your memory failed. Or you doing this intentionally. You making rumors and slender, again.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

SM.

Are you bothered by my motives?

Are you claiming that you are not motivated by your motives?

:))

This human characteristic is inseparable from every man and is deep within him. There is nothing without it. There are two types of motives: Natural motives and Acquired (social) motives.

What makes you eat every day? I guess hunger and a strong desire to be satisfied. So you have a motive.

What makes you participate in this forum? To advocate your point of view and your logic, right. Is your point of view always true? This is for discussion. You are convinced that you know the truth. Who can confirm that you are right? You yourself, or maybe Dmitar or someone else participating in the discussion? Or WTJWorg? Or some history book, You Tube, or Your Truther Community?

So, do not accuse others of using motives as driving forces, because that is also your driving force.