Get your money back.

[Matthew9969]

There is a pretty popular church here that actually states, 'if your not blessed by tithing 10% or greater, in 6 months we'll refund your money. That sounds pretty horrible to me. What do you think?

[Pudgy]

2 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

There is a pretty popular church here that actually states, 'if your not blessed by tithing 10% or greater, in 6 months we'll refund your money. That sounds pretty horrible to me. What do you think?

….. Stereotypically …. It’s quite common.

 

[Witness]

On 2/4/2022 at 2:31 PM, Matthew9969 said:

There is a pretty popular church here that actually states, 'if your not blessed by tithing 10% or greater, in 6 months we'll refund your money. That sounds pretty horrible to me. What do you think?

At least they offer a refund, unlike the Watchtower 🙂.

ws17 July p. 5 - One way to prove ourselves faithful with our material things is by making donations to the worldwide preaching work that Jesus foretold would happen.

 Such examples show that God’s people are “faithful in what is least.” (Luke 16:10) They use their material things to benefit others. How do those friends of Jehovah feel about making such sacrifices? They are very happy knowing that when they are generous, they gain “true” riches in heaven.

Yes, such riches will ultimately fail, so do not lose the opportunity to use them to “make friends” in heaven. Whatever we do to advance the interests of Jehovah’s Kingdom makes us spiritually rich.

Miraculously, earthly money, investments and commodities transform into spiritual riches when given to  the Wt. This is their guarantee, if we take hold of the opportunity - no refunds available though. 

But, is it really true that one can “make friends in heaven” by donating to the organization?  Does it prove we are faithful to God?

 w09 10/15 p. 16 - A second way that those of the other sheep class can help Christ’s brothers is by financially supporting the preaching work. Jesus encouraged his followers to make friends for themselves by means of “the unrighteous riches.” (Luke 16:9) Not that we can buy friendship with Jesus or Jehovah.

Apparently it is not true!  It appears that if there is a desperate need for money, the Watchtower gives its readers a different slant.  This article is saying, we don’t necessarily need to give our material riches to the organization in order to have a “friendship”…I say a spiritual relationship, with the Father and the Son.  But 18 years after this last quote was written, obviously "new light" tells us that God will not make us spiritually rich unless we “make friends in heaven” through donations to the organization.   

What riches, could be considered “unrighteous”? 

 Jesus called them over and said to them, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions act as tyrants over them. ⁴³ But it is not so among you. On the contrary, whoever wants to become great among you will be your servant, ⁴⁴ and whoever wants to be first among you will be a slave to all.”  Mark 10:42-44

1 Cor 4:8 -  You are already full! You are already rich! You have begun to reign as kings without us -- and I wish you did reign, so that we could also reign with you!

Prov 18:12 - "Before destruction a man's heart is haughty, but humility comes before honor."

The “reign” of the GB over every JW, and the reign/rulership of the "Gentile" elder body especially over the anointed priesthood, is unrighteous.  Matt 24:48-51; Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2

Wasteful Steward

 

[Pudgy]

Unless you can give a solid example of something better, all your ruminations are an exercise in futility.

You need to give a SPECIFIC solid example of something better, with a name, an address, and ZIP Code…… And possibly a telephone contact number.

If you have this, I would be very very much interested in what you have to say, but if you do not have this, you’re wasting everyone’s time including your own and this is merely an exercise in futility.

Perhaps you should get a hobby.

Collecting torn corrugated cardboard would be more productive ……

[Pudgy]

Sometimes, people do the best they know how to do under very difficult circumstances and technically they’re doing everything wrong and in the wrong way. However, the fact remains that they are doing the best they know how to do and I suspect Jehovah God gives them credit for that.

Whether God does or he does not is often a matter of perception on our part and that in itself can be subject to great error.

I saw a movie last night that perfectly exemplifies a righteously inclined person doing the very best he knew how to do under impossible circumstances.

It was called “The Book Of Eli“ starring Denzel Washington, and although you may have some serious objections about the movie, no people or animals were harmed in the production of the movie . 

None.

For that perspective, I highly recommend seeing the movie. I deliberately avoided it for many years, but the ending makes the movie worthwhile.

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Unless you can give a solid example of something better, all your ruminations are an exercise in futility.

I’m guessing you must be referring to “unrighteous riches”.  When Jesus told his disciples, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees” (Matt 16:6), he wasn’t talking about literal bread; nor was he talking about literal seed falling on the roadway, in the rocks, in good soil in Matt 13:1-9

Every parable applies to a spiritual setting, and it is the same with unrighteous riches.  Jesus continually spoke against accumulating riches in this world, so why in this one circumstance of the “manager”/”steward” of Luke 16:1-12, (which the Wt quotes are referring to) would he condone it?  Wt. is earthly based. Of course they will only look at the elementary meaning of “riches”.  They love accumulating material possessions.  If they understood the message Jesus was making, they would sell their own possessions and give to every JW in need.  Matt 19:21.  There is only road in for the material riches they accumulate from its members; and in return these members receive spiritual nonsense.  (Matt 7:15-20)

In the Body of Christ, there are several gifts of Holy Spirit disbursed to each anointed one. (Eph 4:4-13) Holy Spirit is the gift of knowledge, of the wisdom of truth, which is compared to “fine gold”, and spiritual “food”.  (Prov 16:16; John 4:32; 6:35; 1 John 2:21; Rev 3:18)  One gift given is that of “manager”, a “steward” or “administrator” of the spiritual house of God. (1 Cor 12:28)  By effectively managing the disbursement of valuable knowledge, of “food”, gleaned from each member, all are well provided for.   This is a house of priests/kings built on the foundation of Jesus, the chief cornerstone, and the apostles.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22) They will be “rich”, as rulers under Jesus Christ, the King of kings, having the authority to supply truth (fine gold) to all in the Kingdom. (Mal 2:7; Rev 5:9,10; 1 Tim 6:15; Rev 19:16) The GB has placed themselves in the position of ruling over these kings, as if they are “already rich” with power and authority – 1 Cor 4:8.  Yet, they “squander” or “waste” what goods, what token of truth has been given to each household member. They refuse to ask any other anointed for the riches deposited in their heart at the anointing.  They are too haughty to “dig” for truth – to approach the anointed as a body for what spiritual token of truth was given them. (Luke 16:3; 2 Cor 1:22) They have not managed, or been faithful “with what belongs to another”.  Luke 16:10-12

 Jesus’ last statement after relating this parable should shed light on what he was talking about: 

“No servant can serve two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.” Luke 16:13

It should be clear that their vision is based on material riches and possessions.  The Wt. expects its members to donate their material goods to the org. The GB give their full devotion and attention to their accumulated wealth; what to build with it, and then tell JWs it is devoted to God?  Truthfully, they do not serve God by managing His spiritual house as a good steward which doesn’t take money; they serve their organization and manage their elder body/fake priesthood instead. It is from them, from a writing committee, that they “glean” their spiritual food to feed their hungry 8 million adherents. (Rom 1:25) 

It is such a warped concept but very common in the world of religion, but foreign to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Then the disciples came up and asked him, “Why are you speaking to them in parables?”

¹¹ He answered, “Because the secrets of the kingdom of heaven have been given for you to know, but it has not been given to them. ¹² For whoever has, more will be given to him, and he will have more than enough; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. ¹³ That is why I speak to them in parables, because looking they do not see, and hearing they do not listen or understand. Matt 13:10-14

 

 

[Dmitar]

19 minutes ago, Witness said:

I’m guessing you must be referring to “unrighteous riches”.  When Jesus told his disciples, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees” (Matt 16:6), he wasn’t talking about literal bread; nor was he talking about literal seed falling on the roadway, in the rocks, in good soil in Matt 13:1-9

Every parable applies to a spiritual setting, and it is the same.  Jesus continually spoke against accumulating riches in this world, so why in this one circumstance of the “manager”/” steward” of Luke 16:1-12, (which the Wt quotes are referring to) would he condone it?  Wt. is earthly based.

Now, try to look at it realistically from a sinful state of mind coming from humanity.

https://www.ripandscam.com/church-scam.php

Personally, I wonder if Joel Osteen will ever pay back the 10 million dollars he took to build his personal mansion in Texas. Not to mention all the expensive cars. 

[Pudgy]

Today’s DILBERT CARTOON perfectly illustrates the above two responses.

….. I have found that typically coincidental almost to the point of being spooky.

[Witness]

49 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Personally, I wonder if Joel Osteen will ever pay back the 10 million dollars he took to build his personal mansion in Texas. Not to mention all the expensive cars. 

I wonder if the Wt ever intends on refunding donations used for the building of branch facilities, that are later sold.  I’m sure we are talking about millions of dollars needed to build them.  We know they were sold at a profit; so by all rights, JWs who donated, could at least get their initial investment returned to them.  

I don’t see any difference in Osteen stealing money from his members and investing it wherever he chooses, than the Wt. coercing their members into donating everything from pennies to estates that translates into cash, and investing it in whatever they choose.   They are both worldly "organizations" under the guise of religion.  Although Watchtower does a better job of hiding the raw truth behind its existence.

 

[Pudgy]

Protests are useless …. The WTB&Ts is now TOTALLY controlled by their accountants and lawyers.

Nothing new …. This ALWAYS, without exception occurs when any religion starts accumulating Real Estate.

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

I wonder if the Wt ever intends on refunding donations used for the building of branch facilities, that are later sold.  I’m sure we are talking about millions of dollars needed to build them.  We know they were sold at a profit; so by all rights, JWs who donated, could at least get their initial investment returned to them.

If you understand how that institution uses its donations, then your lack of knowledge would give you the fact that that institution "recycles" all its donations. Therefore, that money is not wasted on luxury items like other Christian religions. 

4 hours ago, Witness said:

I don’t see any difference in Osteen stealing money from his members and investing it wherever he chooses, than the Wt. coercing their members into donating everything from pennies to estates that translates into cash, and investing it in whatever they choose.   They are both worldly "organizations" under the guise of religion.  Although Watchtower does a better job of hiding the raw truth behind its existence.

Hmm! I guess with this thought, you are saying that the widow in Mark 12:44 made a mistake, and Jesus was wrong. 

I think you are allowing the influence of a court jester @Pudgy and a woeful fool @Patiently waiting for Truth, to get into that lack of knowledge. Do you involve yourself with Peal Doxsey and the 4Woman bloggers with their finances?

You already hid how the 4woman bloggers hide their donations. Can you give me another example, like the Vatican? I guess with your take, all the Religious institutions regardless of their denomination and governments are worldly organization like the U.N.

[Pudgy]

I think Dimitar is trying to use flattery on me, but because from all outward appearances he has absolutely NO sense of humor, I suspect he would not recognize a cartoon canine court jester if it bit him on his butt cheeks.