BETHEL'S BIG SECRET

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

No, the false narrative of the video as indicated by @Witness is secrets. People know the Vatican has a library, that's no secret. People know the Watchtower has a library, that's no secret. If you are talking about "access" then it becomes a different topic. Something you fail to understand.

Now, the access, that woeful fool is talking about when it comes to the Bible Students can be found all over the internet and if you ask the Bible Student Association, they will arrange, to have it forwarded to you. You can even subscribe to some Bible Student monthly magazines and books they offer. Modern books and magazines, that is. Stuff with New Light.

The video talks about the public part of the JW library and the part that is not publicly available. Is that clear to you? It is clear to me.
The video also talks about “access” to publications (I add; any kind, not just magazines). And we commented on that as well.

So the theme of the video, for me, is not cramped and limited only with WT magazines written 100 or more years ago.

Does every JW have access to correspondence between HQ and assemblies, and the so-called BOE Letters? Does every JW have access to the so-called Shepherd book? And so on, and so forth.

I know they doesn't. And you know that too. Then what are we talking about? We’re talking about “secret” parts of the library (archives are next level) , and also so called "confidential" documentation that is of JW public interest. (I don’t include CSA data here, or excluded JW persons and their “sins”, that’s another topic). I am talking about records and publications that include the actions of the corporation, technical and religious administration, doctrinal twists, etc. that affects every day life of members/followers.

If the average JW members does not have access to, say, the Shepherd book, and if the vast majority of them do not know that the book exists, then the meaning of the terms "public" and "secret" has changed.

[Pudgy]

Completely ignoring the previous post, as has been fully established previously is safe to do (… the expression “… Physician, heal thyself” comes to mind …..), you have to realize that the topic “BETHEL’S BIG SECRET” is a “National Inquirer” headline properly characterized as clickbait, and nothing more.

Similar to when checking out your basket of groceries, and you see the Inquirer headline “Elvis’ Love Child Found In Watermelon!”.

As a canine cartoon character myself I have access to information as to why information various corporations have should NOT BE shared with all the employees, and honesty and transparency is NOT always the best policy.

The following is a recent meeting of the eight members of the WTB&TS Corporation’s Governing Body which illustrates that point.

The names have been changed to protect the guilty.

[Dmitar]

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The video talks about the public part of the JW library and the part that is not publicly available. Is that clear to you? It is clear to me.

That's because it's not necessary, since the Bible Students have their own library. You are making something out of nothing. If you want you look up something from the Bible Student library, TALK to them. It’s that simple. Just because that woeful fool indicates there is additional access for Elders for "research" doesn't mean anything. A Witness still has ACCESS if they wish through other means, if it's that important to them. However, what would be the point if there is a clear difference in doctrine?

Just keep in mind, bad actors butcher that literature, regardless if it comes from so-called witnesses and former witnesses just looking for an excuse.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If the average JW members does not have access to, say, the Shepherd book, and if the vast majority of them do not know that the book exists, then the meaning of the terms "public" and "secret" has changed.

Does this mean, every member in the congregation should be an Elder, a shepherd to the flock? Then what was the purpose of the apostles?  What was the purpose of the first century elder-ship? 

Now, what that woeful fool is talking about, the 4th stage of information, @JW Insider can tell you about the necessary changes made because of typos or if someone in the writing department made a mistake in grammar. What are his kind of people always harping about here to people like me, grammatical errors. 

Do they do that to anyone else? NO! Yet, you have everyone making grammatical errors, even from the most thoughtful book writer or blogger here.

The difference back then to now is REPRINTS if there were that many kinds of mistakes.  Now it's done electronically. What's the big deal about that? What's so secret about it? 

That UK (Ben Foard) Loyd Evans wannabe just touches on, on the kind of nonsense other apostates touch on, nothing meaningful.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

13 hours ago, Dmitar said:

That's because it's not necessary, since the Bible Students have their own library.

First of all, this is about JW and their library, not BS and theirs.

Second, the two different religions have in fact a common part of history that they accept as their own and inalienable part, with which they want to boast and be proud that it belongs only to them.

Thirdly, I am convinced that today's IBSA, according to what I saw on their website, refuse to consider the published publication, which was created under Rutherford's leadership, as their spiritual heritage. The Croatian IBSA website has a WT magazine only for the period from 1912-1916.

Given that most of the BS membership continued to resist Rutherford and that at least 3/4 of the members had left by 1931, it is also acceptable that Rutherford's opponents organized and printed their "spiritual food" in parallel, which did not go through "official" WT channel.

I would conclude with the opinion, that the IBSA library and the WT library differ with regard to many or even all publications from that period. Eg, IBSA probably did not have a WT magazine after 1916, 1917 or 1918 for the simple reason that, for them, it is apostate literature that does not promote Russell's teachings, but Rutherford's.

On the other hand, today's WT has no interest for possibility that their members dealing with such old literature for several reasons:
-because old editions promote Russell's teachings,
-because old editions promote outdated Rutherford teachings,
-because the "old light" (regardless of all the esteemed deceased presidents of the WT) has been thrown into the basement of the past because it has become false religious teachings

Yes, Bible Students (regardless no matter which department / schism they belong to) they have their own library and not the one from JW. 

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

First of all, this is about JW and their library, not BS and theirs.

Then what's the point of your argument with that woeful fools evidence? Just because the Watchtower holds what was once a publishing house for Bible Students means nothing.

You're grasping at straws.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Second, the two different religions have in fact a common part of history that they accept as their own and inalienable part, with which they want to boast and be proud that it belongs only to them.

That's correct. Keep the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses separate from your arguments, just like that fool didn't. Once again, if you have a problem with the Bible Student doctrine, TALK TO THEM!!

"It is often stated that the Bible Students became Jehovah's Witnesses. And yet, this can misleading since the Bible Students still exist apart from the Jehovah's Witnesses. Further, the majority of Bible Students did not accept Rutherford's "Jehovah's visible organization" dogma."

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Thirdly, I am convinced that today's IBSA, according to what I saw on their website, refuse to consider the published publication, which was created under Rutherford's leadership, as their spiritual heritage. The Croatian IBSA website has a WT magazine only for the period from 1912-1916.

The Bible Student Association has different and independent factions. Some still hold the doctrine of Pastor Russell, while others have made many changes. Some even align themselves with the advent movement, while Pastor Russell didn't. Yes, Pastor Russell was intrigued with what the Adventist message was trying to convey, but he made up his own mind. He "rejected" the advent movement out right.

That’s the crust of the Watchtower. What Pastor Russell represented, not the association.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Given that most of the BS membership continued to resist Rutherford and that at least 3/4 of the members had left by 1931, it is also acceptable that Rutherford's opponents organized and printed their "spiritual food" in parallel, which did not go through "official" WT channel.

This would be incorrect. A separation from doctrine started while Pastor Russell was still alive. However, when it comes to the Bible Students Association, not following Rutherford, that would be correct.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I would conclude with the opinion, that the IBSA library and the WT library differ with regard to many or even all publications from that period. Eg, IBSA probably did not have a WT magazine after 1916, 1917 or 1918 for the simple reason that, for them, it is apostate literature that does not promote Russell's teachings, but Rutherford's.

The bible Student library tracks the same past information, minus the Rutherford era. However, their Library continues by independent associations. Some stopped applying information since 2009, but whoever publishes their own material is current til 2022.

VOL. I. March, 1918

A Letter to International Bible Students

The following pages are a facsimile of a circular letter circulated in March, 1918

OUR DEARLY BELOVED BRETHREN:

________________

 

VOL. VIII. February 15, 1925 No. 4

 REVIEW OF DEVELOPMENTS AND PROSPECTS AMONGST THE JEWS

PROVIDENCE PUSHING THE JEWS TO PALESTINE

THE Jewish question (the restoration of Israel to the promised land) will ever hold the keenest interest of all those who know how prominent a place this subject is given in Old Testament prophecy, especially as the revival of the land of Palestine and the return of the Jews thither are closely identified in prophecy with the close of this Age and the setting up of the Messianic Kingdom. (Luke 21:24, 29, 30.)

________________________

News and Views

A global analysis of government restrictions toward religion finds that the number of countries with “high” or “very high” levels of government restrictions rose slightly in 2019. The analysis from the Pew Research Center, which included 198 countries, also found that government harassment of religious groups — where government officials single out a religious group with the intent of making religious practice more difficult — took place in nearly all countries. None of the world’s 25 most populous countries experienced large changes in government restrictions or social hostility scores. — RNS, 9/30/2021

The below comment would not necessarily be correct. The best reason is, it's outdated for our time.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

On the other hand, today's WT has no interest for possibility that their members dealing with such old literature for several reasons:
-because old editions promote Russell's teachings,
-because old editions promote outdated Rutherford teachings,
-because the "old light" (regardless of all the esteemed deceased presidents of the WT) has been thrown into the basement of the past because it has become false religious teachings

[Dmitar]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yes, Bible Students (regardless no matter which department / schism they belong to) they have their own library and not the one from JW. 

Yes, glad you finally came to that realization.

[Space Merchant]

On 2/20/2022 at 1:40 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

n all those parts with which I commented on the video, I believe that I am right and in that way I agree with the accuracy of the points made in the video. Since I did not comment on the video until the end of what is left, I now refrain from expressing an opinion on the rest.

Your opinions are unverified. You are free to speak your peace when it comes to opinions, however, opinions that are deemed bias can mislead, something of which you and @Witness need to learn, remember, not wise to play cards at the table of demons just because.

On 2/20/2022 at 1:40 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

It is clear to me that the main theme of the video is in a question; who has access to which part of the information (text, images, video) and how much information within the official applications of WTJWorg, which is the owner and provider of published materials, can be accessed under certain conditions.

The note of the Archives was merely opinion based, nothing more, therefore, it isn't a big secret granted the level of public domains and infrastructure have the Archives. Just because the WT has something those in the IT field call it, K.O.C. to some level, does not deem this to be a hidden database, more so, as mentioned, how available these archives have prior to the jump from CD/DVD to App/Website. It is also noted that JW.org was originally Watchtower.com to a degree, and granted it mirrored the CD/DVDs, prior to the Archives, the publications could be found there.

On 2/20/2022 at 2:03 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Come on, you and SM, don't pretend to be too smart.

No one is pretending to be smart.

You do not need to be smart to read a History Book about Racial Tension or the Holocaust.

That being said, if you can read a publication of your former faith from JW.org, you can read an elementary level/Entry-Level History Book about said events.

Moreover, these are noted facts, nothing more. Facts are can't be refuted when it is used to dismantle falsehood.

[Space Merchant]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:01 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Dmitar i SM, they have prejudices against anyone who comes from the JW milieu and is no longer a member of them. For two of them, ex-JW are liars. 

This has nothing to do with prejudices. This has everything to do with someone, claiming a false witness as a truth.

No one is going to believe that Bible Students were racist, as is, no one is going to believe that somehow Jehovah's Witnesses is what caused Hitler to go down the path that was on prior to the concentration camps, nor will anyone believe that the camps were specifically made for JWs and them alone, as the video attests to. The Archive publication does NOT even give that idea as this EXJW claims. No one is going to believe Archives are 100% hidden.

 

Therefore all things of which you and @Witness proclaimed is a defense against a false witness. Even down the road, you defeated yourself with the article on Tulsa whereas the video stated otherwise, likewise for Witness who posted an Archived link.

The former EXJW did indeed lie, and the fact that the people who called him out and was technically banned from the YouTube channel also shows.

The both of you have no case here.

[Space Merchant]

On 2/20/2022 at 12:30 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I never even watched the video as I don't bother to watch any of them. There are lots of points within the 20 pages that i would just love to discuss, but most of it has been discussed many times before.  

One thing I have noticed though is, lots of things mentioned here were never taught to me when i was a JW, and I was a JW for a long time. And also some things that were taught are now shown to be totally untrue, or no longer believed. 

Yeah just do not watch the video at all, granted it is already a misleading bias piece. There were points made via bias opinion concerning several examples about race, archives, the Holocaust, etc, and in the video itself all points were incorrect as an attempt to mislead. An example is in regards to the EXJW stating Hitler started first and built the camps for JWS only and went after the Jews later. That makes no sense, and I can see why people got banned from the YouTube channel.

That being said, always do the research for anything and everything for the facts. What you see here is both @Srecko Sostar and @Witness once again, defending something false. As I told them, no one is asking them to agree with Jehovah's Witnesses, but they were asked to use critical thinking to do the research to not get duped by the falsehood, yet they hold an agenda to defend the video to the point they contradicted themselves effectively putting them in err; the refutation ended on pages 10 and 11, but it seems at this point, @Witness and @Srecko Sostar is beating a dead horse.

Regarding the issue about Racial Tension, @JW Insider and I mentioned it before. The reason JWs are pinned to the events of 1921 was due to the fact Pastor Rutherford at the time was either about to give a sermon/talk or it took place already, but the events of Sarah Page pretty much caused a lot of blood and death in Tulsa, which indirectly effected Bible Students in that part of the United States. 

That said our countries are no different, the US has it's Racial issues at the time, and I am sure the UK did also, as with others.

[Space Merchant]

On 2/20/2022 at 10:28 AM, Witness said:

SM, never a JW, never a member of the organization, went down his own road following his own agenda.  That's fine, but he pushed it on myself and Srecko; seemingly diverting guilt on us, instead of guilting the organization for their spiritual cult-like tactics, and their inability to teach truth in Jesus Christ.   

Totally irrelevant. You are not part of the UN but you speak as if you know it, not one stated otherwise... You do have to be a JW to know the events of Tulsa and the Holocaust. Unless, you want to tell us why the camps were specifically made for JWs, then be my guest.

Both of you were wrong since page 10 so I do not see why you are continuing when you protected a false witness.

That being said, the fact you adhered to the verse in question from the last thread paints you as a taint. You should be using your time to cleanse thyself.

 

[Space Merchant]

@Equivocation That is essentially it. The debate ended on page 10. The case is closed, what transpired later is simply an infectious disease that has no host.

That being said, in regards to Example 1, it was already confirmed, even with Reslight.

Glad you pointed out that comments made by the EXJW, the same comments ignored by the taint and the sinner.

[Dmitar]

This question should be answered by credible people, regardless how others feel. The truth from darkness must be brought to light.

Therefore, if anyone here is done, there is no need to further their post. Those personal opinions about the debate are also bias.

@Srecko Sostar

Here is an example on how the Bible Students were made to think. Hence, studying of scripture as Bible Students. They were articulate on how they should understand the Bible. They left no stone unturned in order to get the best understanding, since Pastor Russell had started from scratch.

Now in the example below, if I hadn’t included the answer to the question posed, it would be very hard to find what the question is referring to, STAGES.

Now, what’s the difference between Creation and Science?

 Modern society really doesn’t have the mindset for religion anymore, much less do research. Jehovah’s Witnesses included. How would this deep thinking be relevant to modern man that has an attention span of less than 5 minutes?

 

 

 MILLENNIAL

DAWN

SERIES VI

STUDY I

THE NEW CREATION

Question:

(1)What is signified by the opening sentence of the Bible, "In the beginning God created," etc.?  And are there other beginnings recognized in the Bible?  If so, what?

 When in Genesis we read, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth," we are to remember that this beginning relates not to the universe, but merely to our planet. Then it was that "the morning stars sang together" and all the angelic sons of God "shouted for joy" – when the [F18] Lord laid the foundations of the earth and "made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness its swaddling band." (Job 38:4-11) But a still earlier beginning is mentioned in the Bible; a beginning before the creation of those angelic sons of God; as we read: "In the beginning was the Word [Logos], and the Logos was with the God and the Logos was a God: the same was in the beginning with the God. All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made." (John 1:1-3) (See Series V, Chap. 3.) Since Jehovah himself is from everlasting to everlasting, he had no beginning: the "Only Begotten" has the high distinction above all others of being "The beginning of the creation of God" – "first-born of every creature." (Rev. 3:14; Col. 1:15) Other beginnings came in turn as the various angelic orders were one by one created; and these beginnings were in the past, so that their hosts could shout for joy when our earth's creations, related in Genesis, had their beginning.

 Examining the Genesis expressions critically, we discern that a distinction is made between the creation of the heaven and the earth (verse 1) and the subsequent regulations, or ordering of these, and the further creations of vegetable and animal life. It is these subsequent operations that are described as the divine work of six epochal days. Verse 2 tells us that in the very beginning of the first day of that creative week the earth was – though without form (order), and void (empty) – waste, empty and dark. This important item should be distinctly noted. If recognized, it at once corroborates the testimony of geology thus far; and, as we shall be obliged to dispute the deductions of geologists on some points, it is well that we promptly acknowledge and dismiss whatever does not need to be contended for in defense of the Bible. The Bible does not say how long a period elapsed between the beginning when God created the heaven and the earth, and the beginning of the creative week used in perfecting it for man: nor do geologists agree [F19] amongst themselves as to the period of this interval – a few extremists indulge in wild speculations of millions of years.

What was science trying to understand?

________________

The superiority of the Genesis cosmogony to those of other peoples is generally admitted, but objection to it is taken in the name of modern science. The narrative conflicts, it is said, with both modern astronomy and modern geology; with the former, in regarding the  earth as the center of the universe, and with the latter in its picture of the order and stages of creation, and the time occupied in the work (for a full statement of these alleged discrepancies, see Dr. Driver's Genesis, Introduction).

What was being printed by the Zion Watchtower?

____________________

The first stage of the creative process is to be followed by the second, or finishing stage; the first is the animal, the second is the spiritual. And in the finishing stage the entire race is to be elevated to the glorious spiritual condition of our Lord Jesus, who is "the restored, perfected man" (pages 158, 165). They are to come forth from their graves unto the beginning of the spiritual stage of creation, and when they shall have passed through their probation, when the thousand years are finished, then they will have reached the same spiritual life as the elect: having attained to the possession of the divine nature they will live in the true sense, "the life that is life indeed" (pages 163, 275, 276). "Thus will be accomplished God's original purpose, to create a race of intelligent beings in his own image, divine, Godlike, as himself" (page 101). R1297 : page 57