BETHEL'S BIG SECRET

[Pudgy]

See .   100% predictable.

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

When the claim of the video was being misleading, you defended all the way through in which she stated to be a factual video. Your first contribution was in relation to the Archives, and later on the other examples.

In all those parts with which I commented on the video, I believe that I am right and in that way I agree with the accuracy of the points made in the video. Since I did not comment on the video until the end of what is left, I now refrain from expressing an opinion on the rest.
It is clear to me that the main theme of the video is in a question; who has access to which part of the information (text, images, video) and how much information within the official applications of WTJWorg, which is the owner and provider of published materials, can be accessed under certain conditions.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Actually, it did to secular authority.

But it’s not a break for every JW (including today’s GB) who claims to have their roots back to the 1st century. So the first president was Jesus Christ, followed by Peter as second? 

If it is not the same organization, why do the all Bethels around the world and HQ in USA have museums in which their (modern) history dates back to (starts from) the ZWTTS? Come on, you and SM, don't pretend to be too smart.

[Pudgy]

…..

….. All of us start out totally ignorant … and it’s often an uphill climb from there …..

[Equivocation]

So this thread in a Nutshell

After sitting down and reading through everything. 🍿

• @Witness hops in with a video and says something to the effect that this is absolute truth because the person who made the video is an EX-Jehovah's Witness who is also a Bethelite.

 

• @Space Merchant The guy who does not like falsehood or anything misleading points out the video is misleading, but purposely held back to see what @Witness will say.

 

• @Witness still holds own to her words and the video.

 

• @Srecko Sostar chimes in and then @Space Merchant opened the floodgates, refuting nearly every point made in that video which was actucally opinion based vs facts, which wraps around even that of history. Even about the events of the 1900-1930s, mainly about Tulsa. Some of what is said in the video @Witness didn't realize it until later.

 

• @Witness keeps saying the the opponent is defending the Watchtower or that he isn't a Jehovah's Witness, but due to what @Space Merchant said, the facts, from which I read, is not associated with JWs, but the history of which the JWs were indirectly involved in. @Space Merchant (who is black) checks @Witness and @Srecko Sostarabout Racism and Segregation; the history.

 

• @JW Insider is for some reason often mentioned by @Dmitar.

 

• Then @Srecko Sostar somehow points out doctrine, when both @Space Merchant and @Dmitar corrects stating the information follows the history of that specific point in time.

 

• @Dmitar chimes in to correct and collect and somehow @JW Insider is mentioned by a selected few. 

 

• @Pudgy For comic relief. 🐕‍🦺👍

 

• @Patiently waiting for Truth comes in for a hello and good bye.

 

• @Space Merchant literally gave point for point and now @Witness and @Srecko Sostar is on high defense because now the video went as stale as bread.

 

• @Space Merchant quotes the Ex-Bethelite "word for word" but @Witness and @Srecko Sostar ignores it while defending the lie.

 

• @Srecko Sostar defends the stance of the video, but owned himself with a Watchtower Article that refutes the claim of racism in the video.

 

• @Space Merchant knows that the defeated party lost the debate so he just idles to shoot down claims and insults.

 

• @Dmitar chimes in when a silly reponse is made.

 

• @Srecko Sostar punching at air at this point.

Lol reading through the comments, one thing for certain, I reminded of the situation in Germany once again.

 

ANYWAYS..........

Archives are nothing new, even as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I knew they existed because some Elders mentioned how they were able to get a hold of older publications, so I don't see it as a big secret. Plus we preach using newer publications anyways; archives may be used as call backs or for research, besides that, most of them are on a public domain online around the internet. This is like what some schools and hospitals do, they have records with current information and the rest is archived somewhere, for example a school can have information on a student from the 1980s, which isn't important to a student in the 2000s, or even for medical records, although personal, in some instances they can pull archived data. So I do not see the problem at all, nor do the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses take issue with this because everyone knows how long the faith was moving, and then some.

Then there is the point in the video where the Ex-Bethelite claims that Bible Students were racist because of Segregation. That is 100% unfounded. Due to customs and the situation back then, things were different so the idea now vs te past can't be coupled together. Even back then, a lot of people were not fans of Racism, in the Bible Student's case, they looked out for their brothers be it black or white in skin tone.

The second example about the Holocaust was kind of an odd one. It is unlikely that the camps were specifically made for Jehovah's Witnesses only, nor were they the first ones on Hitler's chop block. Hitler's anti-Semitism was laser focused on Jews. He, and his party considered the Jews as sub-human and a dangerous cancer that needs to be dealt with. Some believed that Hitler's view of the Jews was a result of his history in Vienna (1908-1913), at some point he came into contact with antisemitic ideas at an early age. The Roma and the Jehovah's Witnesses came later, both @Space Merchant and @Dmitar mentioned this to an effect, @Space Merchant pointed out from the Holocaust source of how they were attacked in those camps, in short, the Nazi's attempted to push the Witnesses to abandon their faith in Jehovah.

The last example regarding 1925 is essentially Rutherford's words being taken out of context, which is another can of worms. I think @JW Insider or someone else gave more insight about this, @Space Merchant even linked that disscussion.

All in all, if the video is indeed false and misleading, I do not see why there is such a strong push to defend it, in addition to that, the Debater purposely entrapped to expose some peeps. One thing for certain, what can be seen here in this thread shows that some EXJWs need a catching up to do with history.

I guess this thread will show the guests of why we take issue with Apostate media.

One thing I wanna point out about Tulsa, both the Latino and Asian communities in the past, were somewhat indirectly effected to, for back in those days, even going to the 1940s+, there was some discrimination against some people, likewise, with others.

[Equivocation]

5 hours ago, Pudgy said:

….. All of us start out totally ignorant … and it’s often an uphill climb from there …..

Then there are some who choose to remain ignorant, and attempt to bring anyone who has some knowledge down to their level only to fail.

This thread had me rolling when I read through everything lol

[Dmitar]

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But it’s not a break for every JW (including today’s GB) who claims to have their roots back to the 1st century. So the first president was Jesus Christ, followed by Peter as second? 

You need to clarify this remark.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If it is not the same organization, why do the all Bethels around the world and HQ in USA have museums in which their (modern) history dates back to (starts from) the ZWTTS? Come on, you and SM, don't pretend to be too smart.

When showing the public what advancements and changes have been made to return to the first century teachings of Christ, when it had been lost for millennia, it has nothing to do with being smart, it has to do with facts. That's the kind of intelligence you lack.

When you go into a museum of history, what will you find?

[Dmitar]

2 hours ago, Equivocation said:

The second example about the Holocaust was kind of an odd one. It is unlikely that the camps were specifically made for Jehovah's Witnesses only, nor were they the first ones on Hitler's chop block.

This would depend on how you view the phrase chop block. While the article in the 1935 golden age magazine was taken out of context, it does reference the "banning" of Rutherford's books.

"The German authorities have now banned the books of Judge Rutherford, the investigator, in Germany. They have been put on the black list and must not be published anymore in the German Reich."

If you continue to read further down, it also relates to the imprisonment of Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses.

PRISON FOR "INTERKATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS"
The Lower Court in Seesen [Germany] sentenced five persons, who were actively engaged for the prohibited
"Bible Students Association", to prison terms ranging from three to six months.

Reporting the imprisonment of eight of Jehovah's witnesses from Darmstadt another Cologne paper says truthfully, and should have said with bowed head: "The defendants refused to admit that there was anything criminal in their creed, since they wanted only to preach God's 'Vord and to serve mankind."

That's the purpose of being here. To set the record straight when ever possible. I'm sure you are aware, @Space Merchant deals with facts as I do.

[Witness]

4 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Then there are some who choose to remain ignorant, and attempt to bring anyone who has some knowledge down to their level only to fail.

The video is about concealment, the hiding of the history of teachings by your leaders, since its inception.  This could have been an easy access for JWs to peruse all publications, but it is guarded and only a select group can go there.  The fourth layer of your website gives access to all changes in doctrines over the years, for comparison reasons.  That too, is locked away from the average JW.  Instead, you receive what is called, “Beliefs Clarified”, most likely a shaved down version, not containing all changes.  Every one of these changes are lies, not clarifications of truth from Jesus Christ.  If one claims to teach truth, but hides what he has taught, has it ever been truth?  The massive database of publications that you cannot access because they are defunct, proves one thing - the production of "bad fruit".  Matt 7:15-20.  

"Therefore by their fruits you will know them." Matt 15:20  

Know who?  False teachers, false prophets prophesied by Jesus Christ to deceive the chosen ones - anointed, in the last days.  

“but test everything; hold fast what is good. ²² Abstain from every form of evil.”  1 Thess 5:21,22

It is impossible for JWs to do that, to test what their leaders have produced and make the choice to abstain from "bad fruit".  This is restricted on their own approved website -  to examine the entire production of "fruit" taught by the organization over the years.  Not one JW here, is expressing an opinion on this, except Dmitar, which tells me, that JWs -

…Are blind and “drunk” on their leaders' “wine”/teachings, and don’t care  (Isa 28:7-15; Jer 5:30,31; Rev 17:1-6)

…Are too uncomfortable to consider why they can’t view their organization’s publications at the touch of a finger, on the approved website for them to use;  which is cognitive dissonance.

…May have their opinion, may not even like it, but refuse to make waves.  Sure, they can go elsewhere to find old publications while at the same time their leaders warn them not to.  Are Wt leaders who do have access, better persons, stronger, smarter, more qualified somehow to study what the organization taught in the past?  It’s all about control of the masses. 

SM, never a JW, never a member of the organization, went down his own road following his own agenda.  That's fine, but he pushed it on myself and Srecko; seemingly diverting guilt on us, instead of guilting the organization for their spiritual cult-like tactics, and their inability to teach truth in Jesus Christ.   

But, what can one expect from a pushy guy, a "Preacher" of the “world”,  who seems to think he understands what it is to be a JW or an exJW.🙂

 

 

 

[Dmitar]

2 hours ago, Equivocation said:

• @Dmitar chimes in when a silly reponse is made.

 

Shouldn't anyone chime in when a silly response is made? Take a look at the last response you made about @Pudgy comment. What would be the difference in your mind?

2 hours ago, Equivocation said:

@Dmitar chimes in to correct and collect and somehow @JW Insider is mentioned by a selected few. 

I think @TrueTomHarley knows the reason why, I  adversely mention @JW Insider. I believe everyone here knows. 

However, the presentation above is good.

[Srecko Sostar]

27 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

When you go into a museum of history, what will you find?

Collections.

But HQ is museum for collections of own religious/company history. Not about USA or World history. Or about dinosaurs.

[Srecko Sostar]

33 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

When showing the public what advancements and changes have been made to return to the first century teachings of Christ, when it had been lost for millennia, it has nothing to do with being smart, it has to do with facts. That's the kind of intelligence you lack.

One of you (SM or you, or both) is objecting to me interfering with doctrines in speaking about history. So now we can still talk about doctrines throughout the history of the WT company? :))