Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's

[John 12.24to28]

2 hours ago, redHarmonioussparrow said:

• For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly. He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints. Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.

 

I like that quote, it's from Proverbs 2:6-9. I like what the verses before it say about where to find wisdom, how to acquire it...

 

"My son, if you accept my sayings And treasure up my commandments, By making your ear attentive to wisdom And inclining your heart to discernment; Moreover, if you call out for understanding And raise your voice for discernment; If you keep seeking for it as for silver, And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures; Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah, And you will find the knowledge of God." (Proverbs 2:1-5)

 

We can't just read the Bible to get wisdom. We have to beg Him for His spirit in order to understand it. Otherwise it's just an old book like any other old book. There are a lot of old books. We don't get the benefit of the wisdom in the Bible unless we ask Jehovah to give it to us along with His holy spirit. Otherwise the wisdom is just hidden. We could parrot the words and make "good comments" at meetings and give fancy talks, but it wouldn't be real. It'd be the same as that apocryphal book quoted below, "The Wisdom of Solomon". That book is not part of the Bible canon. It doesn't fit with the holy spirit. It's a fraud. But if somebody wasn't reading the Bible along with holy spirit, they might not know the difference.

 

2 hours ago, Fausto Hoover said:

Wisdom of Solomon

 3 But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and no torment will ever touch them. 2 In the eyes of the foolish they seemed to have died, and their departure was thought to be a Disaster, 3 and their going from us to be their destruction; but they are at peace. ⁴ For though in the sight of others they were punished, their hope is full of immortality. ⁵ Having been disciplined a little, they will receive great good, because God tested them and found them worthy of himself; ⁶ like gold in the furnace he tried them, and like a sacrificial burnt offering he accepted them. ⁷ In the time of their visitation they will shine forth, and will run like sparks through the stubble. ⁸ They will govern nations and rule over peoples, and the Lord will reign over them Forever. ⁹ Those who trust in him will understand truth, and the faithful will abide with him in love, because grace and mercy are upon his holy ones, and he watches over his elect.

 10 But the ungodly will be punished as their reasoning deserves, those who disregarded the righteous and rebelled against the Lord; 11 for those who despise wisdom and instruction are miserable. Their hope is vain, their labors are unprofitable, and their works are useless. 12 Their wives are foolish, and their children evil; 13 their off spring are accursed. For blessed is the barren woman who is undefiled, who has not entered into a sinful union; she will have fruit when God examines souls.

 

[John 12.24to28]

8 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Jesus forgave those ACTIVELY torturing him to death … those who had Not repented … because they “do not know what they are doing”.

That is why we should not be too hard on the Governing Body.

Not every soldier is John Rambo, or can be expected to be.

 

"John Rambo : [from the Director's Cut]  Go live your life 'cause you've got a good one.

Sarah : It's what I'm trying to do.

John Rambo : No, what you're trying to do is change what is.

Sarah : And what is?

John Rambo : That we're like animals! It's in the blood! It's natural! Peace? That's an accident! It's what is! When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing. When the killing stops in one place, it starts in another, but that's okay... 'cause you're killing for your country. But it ain't your country who asks you, it's a few men up top who want it. Old men start it, young men fight it, nobody wins, everybody in the middle dies... and nobody tells the truth! God's gonna make all that go away?

[pause] 

John Rambo : Don't waste your life, I did. Go home."

 

(quotes from Rambo 2008, imdb.com)

 

I don't know, @Pudgy - I haven't seen these movies since I was a kid (we had TV/movies on 24/7 when I was young, every genre - war/action/horror/spiritism/westerns/sci-fi/classics/musicals - I kind of did a 180 on that when I got to my 20's - now I don't hardly watch anything...) It seems that the John Rambo character was more like the Roman soldiers who didn't know what they were doing. But the GB sounds more like the "few men up top" Rambo was talking about here. "And nobody tells the truth".

 

They (the GB) claim to have special knowledge from God for understanding scripture better than everyone else, but they have grieved the holy spirit by disobeying clear Bible counsel. When we pray for holy spirit and then look at the Bible, we can tell the GB are making stuff up. The holy spirit is like having figurative night vision googles that magnify the light or see in infrared spectrum. John said the anointed ones have the spirit teaching them to understand the scriptures. I'm just some dumb person, but with Jehovah's help I can see clearly that the GB is making up so much stuff (although even atheists can see that) and Jehovah makes clear some other things that the GB has no clue about. If they were really "God's channel" and the holy spirit was helping them then they would know all these things that the holy spirit helps me understand. I'm just a nobody. I'm not some fancy Bible scholar. They should know more than I do if they're really some kind of "channel" thing. (They are not a "channel" - they are actually apostates.)

 

 

 

If Jehovah can make me understand stuff by means of His holy spirit, then He can make anybody understand. I'm low and not important. Jehovah is showing that He doesn't need some fancy governing body to reveal special truths to anybody. He can make a "nobody" understand. Even an "apostate" or somebody "disfellowshipped" or a "lowly woman".

 

As far as "not being to hard on the Governing Body" I don't think it's right when people say mean things about them just to be mean. But Jehovah does tell us to warn people. Jehovah is going to make an accounting with those men very soon. They are not standing in a very good place right now - Jehovah's really, really angry with them - His Word is clear. A lot of other people are going to be angry with them too when they find out all at once they've been lied to.  They'll find out all at once when Jesus pulls back the curtain and exposes their uncleanness, and that about some really important things, "they don't know diddly."

 

 

[Pudgy]

50 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

John Rambo : [from the Director's Cut]  Go live your life 'cause you've got a good one.

Sarah : It's what I'm trying to do.

John Rambo : No, what you're trying to do is change what is.

That would be my advice to you, Audrey.

You cannot stop a locomotive full of passengers determined to ride that train.

That makes them happy.

You make them unhappy.

Those that know, already know.

Besides if you ignore the crazy stuff, it will take you where you, and they, want to go. ( ! )

[John 12.24to28]

8 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

That would be my advice to you, Audrey.

You cannot stop a locomotive full of passengers determined to ride that train.

That makes them happy.

You make them unhappy.

Those that know, already know.

Besides if you ignore the crazy stuff, it will take you where you, and they, want to go. ( ! )

 

Oh, I know I make them unhappy. I'm not trying to make anybody unhappy. How would @Space Merchant put it? I have a "Commission" to fulfill.😁

 

Jeremiah kept getting harassed by the elders of his day, but Jehovah just made him keep telling the truth: "...when Pashʹhur released Jeremiah from the stocks, Jeremiah said to him: “Jehovah has named you, not Pashʹhur, but Terror All Around.  For this is what Jehovah says, ‘I will make you an object of terror to yourself and to all your friends, and they will fall by the sword of their enemies while your eyes are looking on; and I will give all Judah into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he will take them into exile in Babylon and put them to death by the sword.  And I will give all the wealth of this city, all its resources, all its precious things, and all the treasures of the kings of Judah into the hand of their enemies. And they will plunder them and seize them and take them to Babylon.  And as for you, Pashʹhur, and all who live in your house, you will go into captivity. You will go off to Babylon and die there, and you will be buried there with all your friends, because you have prophesied lies to them.’”

 

Jeremiah quit preaching lots of times, but Jehovah made it burn in him like a fire, and he couldn't hold it in. 

 

"You have fooled me, O Jehovah, and I was fooled. You used your strength against me, and you prevailed. I have become a laughingstock all day long; Everyone ridicules me.  For whenever I speak, I must cry out and proclaim, “Violence and destruction!”  For me the word of Jehovah has been the cause of insults and jeering all day long. So I said: “I am not going to make mention of him, And I will speak no more in his name.”  But in my heart it became like a burning fire shut up in my bones, And I was tired of holding it in; I could no longer endure it.  For I heard many evil rumors; Terror surrounded me.  “Denounce him; let us denounce him!” Every man wishing me peace was watching for my downfall: “Perhaps he will make a foolish mistake, And we can prevail and take our revenge against him.”  But Jehovah was with me like a fearsome warrior. That is why those persecuting me will stumble and will not prevail. They will be put to great shame, for they will not succeed. Their everlasting humiliation will not be forgotten. But you, O Jehovah of armies, are examining the righteous one; You see the innermost thoughts and the heart.  Let me see your vengeance on them, For to you I have committed my legal case.  Sing to Jehovah! Praise Jehovah! For he has rescued the poor one from the hand of evildoers."

 

I've told Jehovah "I quit!" more times than I can count. But it doesn't work. 😁 He is waaaaaay stronger than I am. That's why I know it's Jehovah's holy spirit and not my own strength, because whenever I quit and say "I can't do this anymore, Jehovah, I won't, please, you have to do it because I am so done, I can't..." and then He does really cool stuff every time. Jehovah's so cool.🤩😎☺️

 

 

 

 

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, Pudgy said:

Besides if you ignore the crazy stuff, it will take you where you, and they, want to go. ( ! )

 

How is it possible to "ignore the crazy stuff" when it's hurting people you love? It's not possible.

 

Their direction won't take anybody anywhere when the direction is against Jehovah. It's kind of like virtual reality - it might seem realistic for awhile that a person can "earn" salvation or holiness or something by how many magazines they place or KHs they build, but when Jesus comes it's going to be the Real reality.

 

"Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’  And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!" (Matthew 7:22,23)

 

There are right-hearted individuals in the organization, and Jesus is merciful. And when the direction is in harmony with God's Word, it is good. But the overall direction to treat worship as if it's a business is heinous. Elders are trained to act like business managers with flowcharts and accountability to HQ rather than to Jehovah. The Pharisees control the flock so they can control the funds for their own selfish gain. Jesus detested that kind of "worship". Especially in his Father's house.

[John 12.24to28]

27 minutes ago, Fausto Hoover said:

This also goes toward those refusing expulsion from the church.

https://www.victorious.org/pub/sin-persists-church-168

https://bible.org/seriespage/8-church-discipline-taking-sin-seriously-1-cor-51-13

 

I wasn't alive when Paul was in Corinth, but I have been alive the past few years and can share what I've experienced with "excommunication" and "disfellowshipping" in the local congregation.

 

Those "seven sins" listed on the first website posted there:

 

"(1) Immorality — adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, incest, rape, sexual impurity, etc.
(2) Greed — The desire to accumulate gain by base methods.
(3) Idolatry — Participation in occult practices.
(4) Drunkenness — Intoxication with alcohol.
(5) Extortion — Robbery, theft, stealing.
(6) Foul tongue — A railer, verbally abusive, reviling, slanderous, insulting, contentious, speech which causes injury or damage.
(7) Heretic — One who causes division by a party spirit, a self-willed opinion, or contentions over false or exotic doctrines."

 

I saw all of those things being practiced in my local congregation. Immorality, greed, idolatry, drunkenness, extortion, foul tongue, and heresy, being practiced by elders or elders wives or former elders. Not one of them was disfellowshipped, even though there was plenty of evidence, and at times the person admitted to the deed. The elders didn't care. The branch didn't care. The flock was hurt because these people were allowed to continue in their midst, but nobody did anything about it.

 

My kids and I are at the point where we are not welcome at the local Kingdom Hall because we told on some of those things that were going on. We were witnesses to the things and it was our obligation to report it and to warn others, since the deeds were still going on in some cases. My kids are baptized teenagers, and my son has been able to take the lead in our once-a-week family worship time for the past couple years. He also says the prayers before meals and before we read the Bible together every day. (We also watch prerecorded meetings twice a week too.)

 

For the year that my husband wasn't home per State order, our family worship was smooth. When my husband came home (which we are glad about) it was difficult for family worship and prayers, because part of the reason the domestic assault incident was precipitated in the first place was his anger that I had reported to the elder body what the COBE was doing, some of those bad things on that list. Anything that had to do with worship or prayer or reading the Bible was an issue for my husband, even though he was baptized and supposedly in good standing with the elders. At that point he hadn't repented about certain serious sins (some of the ones on that list there) and instead of Jehovah's spirit he had a spirit of rage and contention. It was impossible to do any kind of "worship" together with him. So my kids and would hide and do our worship in another part of the house where he wasn't around to get irritated. He would go to the Kingdom Hall and "worship" and we would worship Jehovah at home. We "disfellowshipped" him from our family worship because he kept disrupting it and turning it into an abuse session.

 

We have invited him back at other times since he's calmed down more, but he's not interested. My son says the prayer before dinner prior to when my husband comes in the room. We all eat together, but he doesn't join us for the prayer, or family worship. It's taken awhile to figure out how to get to this point, but it's peaceful for all of us now, as peaceful as possible, and gives evidence of Jehovah's approval. That's how we've done "disfellowshipping".

[John 12.24to28]

We didn't need a committee meeting of three elders in a secret back room. We just needed common sense and to pray to Jehovah and meditate on scriptural principles. It wasn't that hard once we figured out to not overcomplicate things.

[Pudgy]

In Jesus’ time he was aware of all the sins and shortcomings of the Jewish religious system, and ignored it unless directly confronted.

I am sure your zeal for Jehovah and righteous principles is the right way to go, but consider that Jesus and the Apostles were single men. 

Your FIRST responsibility is to your children.

Jehovah will not get all pouty and whine … or be sad. 

[John 12.24to28]

4 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

In Jesus’ time he was aware of all the sins and shortcomings of the Jewish religious system, and ignored it unless directly confronted.

I am sure your zeal for Jehovah and righteous principles is the right way to go, but consider that Jesus and the Apostles were single men. 

Your FIRST responsibility is to your children.

Jehovah will not get all pouty and whine … or be sad. 

 

Who do you think I was trying to protect? Who do you think the COBE was harassing?

[John 12.24to28]

He was after my kids. My husband was too distracted by the drink to notice. Even after my husband got arrested, the COBE and his wife tried to get custody of my kids. He wouldn't stop. Even now, he still sends them gifts.

[John 12.24to28]

Jehovah is the One who has protected us. 

[John 12.24to28]

At least by making it public, it scared him a bit and he backed off.