Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?

[bruceq]

On 8/19/2017 at 10:01 AM, JW Insider said:

 

 

Bruceq refers to the sins of Babylon the Great, which obviously refers to the current problems of the city council in the town of Babylon, New York.

What Is Babylon the Great?

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The BibleÂ’s answer

Babylon the Great, described in the book of Revelation, is the world’s collective body of false religions, which God rejects. * (Revelation 14:8;17:5; 18:21) Although those religions differ in many respects, in one way or another they all lead people away from the worship of the true God, Jehovah.—Deuteronomy 4:35.

Keys to identifying Babylon the Great

1. Babylon the Great is a symbol. The Bible describes her as “a woman” and a “great prostitute,” having a name that is “a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great.’” (Revelation 17:1, 3, 5) The book of Revelation is presented “in signs,” so it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is a symbol, not a literal woman. (Revelation 1:1) In addition, she “sits on many waters,” which represent “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.” (Revelation 17:1, 15) A literal woman could not do that.

2. Babylon the Great represents an international entity. She is called “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” (Revelation 17:18) Thus, she has international scope and influence.

3. Babylon the Great is a religious entity, not a political or commercial one. Ancient Babylon was a profoundly religious city, known for its use of spiritistic “spells” and “sorceries.” (Isaiah 47:1,12, 13; Jeremiah 50:1, 2, 38) In fact, false religion in opposition to the true God, Jehovah, was practiced there. (Genesis 10:8, 9; 11:2-4, 8) The rulers of Babylon arrogantly exalted themselves above Jehovah and his worship. (Isaiah 14:4, 13, 14; Daniel 5:2-4, 23) Likewise, Babylon the Great is known for her “spiritistic practices.” That shows her to be a religious organization.—Revelation 18:23.

   Babylon the Great cannot be a political entity, because “the kings of the earth” mourn her destruction. (Revelation 17:1, 2; 18:9) Neither is she a commercial power, because the Bible distinguishes her from “the merchants of the earth.”—Revelation 18:11, 15.

4. 

    

   Stela of Babylonian King Nabonidus with symbols of the triad of gods Sin, Ishtar, and Shamash

Babylon the Great fits the profile of false religion. Rather than teaching people how to draw closer to the true God, Jehovah, false religion actually leads them to worship other gods. The Bible calls this “spiritual prostitution.” (Leviticus 20:6; Exodus 34:15, 16) Beliefs such as the Trinity and the immortality of the soul and practices such as the use of images in worship date back to ancient Babylon and continue to permeate false religion. These religions also blend their worship with love for the world. The Bible refers to this form of unfaithfulness as spiritual adultery.—James 4:4.

False religion’s wealth and showy display of it match the picture that the Bible paints of Babylon the Great, who is “clothed in purple and scarlet” and “adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls.” (Revelation 17:4) Babylon the Great is the source of “the disgusting things of the earth,” or the teachings and actions that actually dishonor God. (Revelation 17:5) The members of false religion are the “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues” who support Babylon the Great.—Revelation 17:15.

Babylon the Great is responsible for the deaths “of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.” (Revelation 18:24) Throughout history, false religion has not only fomented wars and fueled acts of terrorism but has also failed to teach people the truth about Jehovah, the God of love. (1 John 4:8) This failure has contributed to much bloodshed. For good reason, those who want to please God must “get out of her,” separating themselves from false religion.—Revelation 18:4;2 Corinthians 6:14-17.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/babylon-the-great/

[bruceq]

 

^21  "In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved". Luke 10:21.

 

" but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame";  1 Cor. 1:27.

 

Gotta love the foolishness of Jehovah's Witnesses and their Governing Body to give us Jehovah's "revealed" interpretation rather than Christendom's haughty teachers and internet bloggers who promote and agree with them. 

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402015202

 

Hydrogen and Oxygen are both flammable. But when you put them together H2O then they can put fire out = UNITY.

1 Cor. 1:10 and Ps. 133, Rev. 7:17.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/respect-jehovahs-authority/#?insight[search_id]=2e3e97e6-1b34-49fb-bf32-013cebc18ec1&insight[search_result_index]=2

 

 

[bruceq]

52 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

 But I disagree that we, (in representing and promoting the Watchtower's doctrines), should so slavishly put faith in the secular date 539/8 as if it is some holy grail that stands by itself.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=539 b.c.e.

I would rather "PROMOTE"  the "foolish" Governing Body to feed us than you and Christendom's "wise" scholars. Why do you continue to promote the teachings of Babylon the Great? 1 Cor. 1:24-31.

You were suppose to "get OUT of her my people" not go BACK to her my people. Rev. 18:4.

"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you+and be submissive,+ for they are keeping watch over you* as those who will render an account,+ so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." Heb. 13:17.

What is LOYALTY? Loyalty is not being married to your wife {Jehovah's Witness} and looking at the prettier smarter girl and having a "passion for her" {obsession with the teachings of Christendom being promoted here}. I think Jehovah wants EXCLUSIVE devotion and that includes the TRUE faith. Matt. 5:28 {Already committed disloyalty in your HEART}. 

[JW Insider]

1 minute ago, bruceq said:

I was just appointed a Ministerial Servant so I am not as experienced and as smart as you but I know what Loyalty is.

Congratulations, seriously!!

[bruceq]

1 minute ago, JW Insider said:

Congratulations, seriously!!

Yes What is LOYALTY? Loyalty is not being married to your wife {Jehovah's Witness} and looking at the prettier smarter girl and having a "passion for her" {obsession with the teachings of Christendom being promoted here}. I think Jehovah wants EXCLUSIVE devotion and that includes the TRUE faith. Matt. 5:28 {Already committed disloyalty in your HEART}. 

[JW Insider]

17 minutes ago, bruceq said:

What is LOYALTY? Loyalty is not being married to your wife {Jehovah's Witness} and looking at the prettier smarter girl and having a "passion for her" {obsession with the teachings of Christendom being promoted here}. I think Jehovah wants EXCLUSIVE devotion and that includes the TRUE faith. Matt. 5:28 {Already committed disloyalty in your HEART}. 

Quote

 

*** w02 8/15 p. 4-6 To Whom Should You Be Loyal? ***
UNQUESTIONING loyalty to one’s country is seen by many as their paramount obligation. Others would rephrase Stephen Decatur’s words, ‘My religion, may she always be right; but my religion, right or wrong.’ . . .  But as I progressively grew in knowledge of Bible truth, the choice became an obvious one for me. I could not turn my back on Jehovah.
“Choosing to be loyal to Jehovah rather than to religious traditions does not mean that I am being disloyal to my family. I endeavor to show them by my words and actions that I understand how they feel. But if I am not loyal to Jehovah, then I may prevent my family from coming to know him, and that would be a real act of disloyalty.” . . .
Since Jehovah is our Creator, loyalty to him rightly takes precedence over all other claims to our loyalty. (Revelation 4:11) However, to prevent loyalty to God from mutating into a fanatic and destructive force, it must be molded by accurate knowledge. The Bible exhorts us: “Be made new in the force actuating your mind, and . . . put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true . . . loyalty.” (Ephesians 4:23, 24) The famous man who wrote those inspired words had the courage to question the loyalties with which he was raised. His examination led to a beneficial transformation.

 

 

[bruceq]

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 

You can quote from the Watchtower all you want just as you can give flowers to your wife but : Loyalty is not being married to your wife {Jehovah's Witness} and looking at the prettier smarter girl and having a "passion for her" {obsession with the teachings of Christendom being promoted here}. I think Jehovah wants EXCLUSIVE devotion and that includes the TRUE faith and not promoting the teachings and chronologies of Babylon the Great. Matt. 5:28 {Already committed disloyalty in your HEART}. 

You have also stated several times that the Governing Body displays "scholastic dishonesty" a saying apostates often claim against them. That is looking at it from a physical perspective not a spiritual one. JESUS is in control of the organization not any humans. This is his people and the celestial chariot is governed by holy spirit therefore it is Jesus you are maligning as "dishonest" IF this is the true religion. Eph. 5:23. Ezekiel chp. 1

"Now we speak wisdom among those who are mature,+ but not the wisdom of this system of things*... ⁸  It is this wisdom that none of the rulers of this system of things* came to know,+...¹⁰  For it is to us God has revealed them+ through his spirit,+ for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God.+¹¹  For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God except the spirit of God. ¹²  Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit that is from God,+ so that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God.¹³  These things we also speak, not with words taught by human wisdom,+ but with those taught by the spirit,+ as we explain*spiritual matters with spiritual words.¹⁴  But a physical man does not accept* the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually." 1 Cor 2: 1-16. Col. 2:8; John 16:13; Rom. 11:33 !!!

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/which-religion-is-true/

[JW Insider]

13 minutes ago, bruceq said:

I think Jehovah wants EXCLUSIVE devotion and that includes the TRUE faith.

There you have it!

[bruceq]

On 8/19/2017 at 10:01 AM, JW Insider said:

 

And I could even defend my special interpretation

From where do you get "your" special interpretation? 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, bruceq said:

BTW when you said you receive "special interpretation" where does it come from? God himself speak to you? Or perhaps angels? Or just from websites from Christendom? 

I don't know who you have me confused with, but the reason I never said anything like that is because I do not receive special interpretation. When the Watchtower has made such a claim for itself I believe it is referring to the fact that prayerful and serious consideration of the meaning of the Scritpures is the basis for doctrine, not that they are claiming any kind of "inspiration." You might find that the Watchtower has made some less careful claims in the past, even claiming that it was angels or other spirit creatures that have produced these "flashes of light" in his Temple since 1918. It is indicated that these "flashes of light" have the exact same effect as "inspiration" but they are not called "inspiration." Rutherford, as you probably know, promoted the doctrines as coming directly through angels because he claimed that the holy spirit was no longer available as of 1918.

[bruceq]

24 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I don't know who you have me confused with, but the reason I never said anything like that is because I do not receive special interpretation. When the Watchtower has made such a claim for itself I believe it is referring to the fact that prayerful and serious consideration of the meaning of the Scritpures is the basis for doctrine, not that they are claiming any kind of "inspiration." You might find that the Watchtower has made some less careful claims in the past, even claiming that it is angels or other spirit creatures that have produced "flashes of light" in his Temple since 1918 that have the exact same effect as "inspiration." Rutherford, as you probably know, promoted the doctrines as coming directly through angels because he claimed that the holy spirit was no longer available.

 Â On 8/19/2017 at 10:01 AM, JW Insider said:

 

And I could even defend my special interpretation

LOL Your entire post was about your special interpretation of things that contradict Jehovah's Witnesses. And you now deny it. 

So you get it from "angels" , Christendom or just all by yourself - your own Captain?

Do you agree with Jehovah's Witnesses that the Gentile Times ended in 1914?

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/#?insight[search_id]=e8ddb295-889f-4ee3-ac9d-d25140623b74&insight[search_result_index]=5

[JW Insider]

22 hours ago, bruceq said:

From where do you get "your" special interpretation? 

You did not include the context, and I can see why. This comes across as just as dishonest, although I'll assume you might not have realized this.

[edited to replace some earlier assumptions] I never claimed to get any special interpretations. In fact, I was talking about YOUR special interpretations. I'll assume you didn't understand this. I was referring to the ridiculous kinds of special interpretations that YOU defend when you pick the most unlikely meaning of each word to fit an interpretation. You claimed that we should defend the most unlikely meanings, because our interpretation SHOULD be the most unlikley, while Christendom accepts the most likely meaning. That's why I said "SUPPOSE" that I used  the same ridiculous logic in order to MISunderstand what you were saying.

So, back to the question you pretended to ask:

The context was how you @bruceq, could be misinterpreted if someone were to take your words and act as if some of the most unlikely meanings of your words

On 8/19/2017 at 10:01 AM, JW Insider said:

What this topic was about was how using unlikely definitions of certain words has contributed to the interpretation. 

Here's an example. Suppose you tell me the following phrase, . . . [edited out to avoid confusion] . . .

. . .  So I therefore interpret your phrase to mean the following: [ridiculous interpretation edited out]

And I could even defend my [ridiculous] special interpretation [created in this ridiculous way] by pointing out that the "correct" interpretation must always be the least likely because persons in Christendom would have more likely understood it to mean exactly what you intended.

So, to recap, you made a statement: . . . And I said that if I took the words in it and forced unlikely meanings on them that this would force a misinterpretation. You had also argued that if Christendom doesn't agree with an interpretation that it must therefore be right, which is also ridiculous on its own. So I asked you to imagine (I used the word "suppose") that I found a way to make your words mean something ridiculous. So I was also saying that [if I were using bruceq's logic], I could even defend my special interpretation, because I'm sure I could find persons in Christendom who understood it correctly, therefore they must be wrong and this unlikely interpretation would be right, according to your way of thinking.

So I showed you what a ridiculous mistake I would be making if I used the methods you had just defended to defend this "special interpretation" of your meaning based on definitions of words were that were not only unlikely, they were ridiculous.

I apologize that my previous assumptions here, made it appear that you were purposefully dishonest. Even if they weren't purposeful, your assumptions, after taking those words out of context, still appear to be dishonest, so I'm just suggesting that you look at context more carefully.