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Do homosexual acts on the part of a married person constitute a Scriptural ground for divorce, freeing the innocent mate to remarry?


Srecko Sostar

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4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Does it really matter? It is garbage wherever it comes from, grandiose claims or not.

I agree, the adage  "truth is truth no matter who says it" works with the opposite too, rubbish is rubbish no matter who says it. Except what constitutes rubbish is sometimes subjective. As for it mattering...well it doesn't matter to me, but it may have made a difference to someone who was in that situation. I am not surprised to hear apostates make fun of us and say something along the lines of "well, as long as he had sex with a sheep his ex won't be scripturally free to re-marry". Thankfully we no longer make these kind of complicated speculisations ( a new word) on scriptures, as was illustrated by JTR with his cat parody, except for a few minor things (at least minor to me) which I won't mention right now, as it's just my opinion anyway.... maybe one can understand a little the trust issues some friends are battling with.....

4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Why worry about mistakes as if we didn't expect them? When we have the word of God?

Yes, exactly,  that was the point I was trying to make in the other thread, when I mentioned the video about 1975.

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This is why in my considerations, reasonings and arguments, I try to use scriptures as little as possible ... as in the movie "Deliverance" you can have "dueling banjos", in the movie "Theology", you

We'll probably have to stop a few people 'sodding pottage'!

I think you are right. Fred Franz wrote a 1969 article that got much of these concerns started over the definition of "porneia," and this article started a number of judicial issues which were typical

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6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

VERY real problem, therefore valuable as an awareness teaching tool for those who are not clueless.

I would think that those who are not clueless do not need this awareness teaching tool.

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

GB Member Stephen Lett declaring in 2015 that they were all "apostate lies"

He said us protecting pedophiles are apostate lies. Not that child abuse in JW organization does not exist. He never claimed child abuse is not real. Why would he? Better still, how could he? 

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3 hours ago, Anna said:

He said us protecting pedophiles are apostate lies. Not that child abuse in JW organization does not exist. He never claimed child abuse is not real. Why would he? Better still, how could he? 

If memory serves me, you are correct, Anna, and I stand corrected. 

He was talking about the Watchtower protecting pedophiles was "apostate lies!!".

I am going back to edit what I said with strikeouts, so my error is not hidden or  lost, and make a correction, as I understand it. 

However, with that correction, the ARC did in fact expose more than 5,000 cases where the Society did exactly that, and just as bad, or worse, as it is deliberate betrayal and treachery .... the Australian Branch Office and local  Elders threatened with disfellowshipping any who wanted to report to the police, and in an unknown number of cases actually did disfellowship those victims.

I do not have backup convenient to support that, but I am assuming that you know it's true, as it has been discussed for several years at GREAT length previously on the Archive.

In the United States the expression is "Tossing Grandmother under the bus!", to silence witnesses.

 

Greater safeguards are being put into place, by local Branch Offices to do the absolute minimum required by law, and this progress is being FORCED from the outside by secular authorities, and the reality and threats of innumerable lawsuits.  It is not righteousness and common sense, common decency, and a NATURAL conscience that is driving these changes., but a desire to protect the Org from hemorrhaging money.

The fact that they NEVER discuss what is going on and why with the rank and file Witnesses, to me, proves this.

It is a crying shame when the natural consciences of secular authorities have the moral high ground.

 

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14 hours ago, Anna said:

This evidently is one of the gaffes

:))))) just/only gaffe???

gaffe noun [ C ]

 UK  /ɡæf/ US  /ɡæf/

a remark or action that is a social mistake and not considered polite:

- I made a real gaffe - I called his new wife "Judy", which is the name of his ex-wife. -

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13 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

They revised the Bible translation to make it crystal clear

this is interesting. revised Bible text ? it can be, and it is very tricky when someone change text to adapt it to understanding in particular moment of time. 

WT made few revising on Bible text from first printing. How many problems will come in a future if some problem of past error on translation we can see now, today. And how many more problematic changes and interpretations that has been done according to bad translation are already here but we are not see it yet, maybe some other people saw before us :))  

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7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

He was talking about the Watchtower protecting pedophiles was "apostate lies!!".

Just little reminder. According to ARC reports, problems with pedophilia within WT in Australia started 50 years back. Similarly, it may be with Great Britain and US. Western countries and western democracies. :))) (In Russia WT have no problem with paedophilia, yet.) And WT as "good steward or FDS" records all cases and have all files about this issue. Do we not expect exactly this from "good steward"? That he care about "household", and have all files and documents about everything, from your 15 minutes field service to ....  

1. Now, when ARC asked Australian WT Branch to produce documents/files about all cases, it seems that they obey secular government and they done this.

2. Now, when California Court ordered US WT Headquarter to produce documents/files about peadophilia and all involved in this scandal, WT refused to do it, and they are stubborn in this unlawful, injustice and bad decision until today.

3. Now, WHO protecting pedophiles inside WT, inside JWrg and inside all sister corporation entities that is under WT Headquarter and under Board of Directors and under Shareholders Assembly?  

We have two answers on that. But only one is true. Guess which is true :)))

At least Australian WT has been more cooperative than their brothers in USA WT. Does this smells on rebellion, disunity, different interpretation on Bible text, more fear of "worldly people"....?   

 

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VIDEO - Richard Ashe, WT Supervisor. Yeah i heard this before, and his lawyer 1 Amendment cry for ::)  

And who told to Stephen Lett about "apostate" informations on paedophile cases that had become "driven lies" . Does he watching apostate YT channels, or somebody else doing that dirty job for him/them? hehe

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Just little reminder. According to ARC reports, problems with pedophilia within WT in Australia started 50 years back.

Actually, just a little reminder, problems with any sexual abuse, including child sexual abuse, in the whole wide world started with Satan. People just didn’t take any real records of child rape before 50 years ago. The same with adult rape. It was never addressed until quite recently with the 1988 movie the Accused. That movie brought the issue into the public limelight. As for third world countries, and Islamic states, rape victims, whether adult or children, are still battling to get justice and recognition.

Wikipedia: “In the 1980s, date or acquaintance rape first gained acknowledgment. Rape crisis centers were created to serve survivors of all forms of sexual violence during any phase of their healing process. Rape crisis centers and other community-based service providers continue to grow and serve their communities by providing direct services and prevention programming.”

and

“In 1986, Congress passed the Child Abuse Victims' Rights Act, giving children a civil claim in sexual abuse cases. The number of laws created in the 1980s and 1990s began to create greater prosecution and detection of child sexual abusers”.

Anne Hastings described these changes in attitudes towards child sexual abuse as "the beginning of one of history's largest social revolutions.

According to John Jay College of Criminal Justice professor B.J. Cling,

"By the early 21st century, the issue of child sexual abuse has become a legitimate focus of professional attention, while increasingly separated from second wave feminism...As child sexual abuse becomes absorbed into the larger field of interpersonal trauma studies, child sexual abuse studies and intervention strategies have become degendered and largely unaware of their political origins in modern feminism and other vibrant political movements of the 1970s. One may hope that unlike in the past, this rediscovery of child sexual abuse that began in the 70s will not again be followed by collective amnesia. The institutionalization of child maltreatment interventions in federally funded centers, national and international societies, and a host of research studies (in which the United States continues to lead the world) offers grounds for cautious optimism. Nevertheless, as Judith Herman argues cogently, 'The systematic study of psychological trauma...depends on the support of a political movement".

Not only Wikipedia articles but all others on this subject recognize that historically, sex crimes have not been addressed in any significant detail by secular authorities or courts of law until the recent decades, and are still not at their optimum effectiveness to this date, that’s why the recent government research into Child sexual abuse in various countries. One of the main reason for those investigations is to determine gaps in the government’s own policies and procedures, not just the policies and procedures in individual institutions.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for those who criticize the WT for the way they handled Child abuse in the past, to educate  themselves on how the rest of the world handled child abuse in the past.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse

 

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In Russia WT have no problem with paedophilia, yet.

Moscow Times 29/11/2017

"The number of children recognized as victims of pedophilia surged by 35.6 percent last year, children's ombudsman Pavel Astakhov said late Tuesday on Twitter.

That increase far outpaced the 7.2 percent rise in the total number of crimes against children, according to Astakhov, who did not provide an explanation for the upticks.

More than 95,400 children were registered as victims of crime last year, as compared with 89,000 the year before, Astakhov wrote, citing statistics by the Interior Ministry. Of the victims last year, more than 2,500 died, he said."

 

 

 

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