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Not in my Congregation! - We are not called Pastors anyhow! - Be on the Watch! ~?? ?

Bible Speaks

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True. The last person at the Watch Tower Headquarters who was called Pastor, evidently never owned a car. The newspaper article starts out: Pastor Russell of the Peoples Pulpit Association today decla

...but does your car have lifting hooks on the roof so when you stop for a break at McDonald's for a hamburger, you can have a helicopter take you back to the Territory?

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WOW....  nice  big  'Ami - Cars' !!   Btw. -  some  of  our  Brothers  and  Sisters  also  driving  big  cars  and  their  bigger  kids  driving  their  own  cars !  Thats  so  in  many  congregations  here...   Only  in  poor  countries its  different.   But  also  in  Africa,  many  Brothers  driving  big  cars  I  saw.  So  I  not  really  understand  this  post ! :o9_9:D   Our  Pastors  driving  smaller  cars,  bec. not  earning  so  much  money,  thats  it :(  haha....

A  nice  car  TOM,    WOW...   I  like  it !   Bigger  cars  very  cosy !

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18 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

So  I  not  really  understand  this  post ! :o9_9:D   Our  Pastors  driving  smaller  cars,  bec. not  earning  so  much  money,  thats  it :(  haha..

The first photo is of a prosperity gospel church - there are many of them here - whereby the preacher and his family always make out financially very well indeed, thank you, though the flock is typically quite modest, or even poor. BibleSpeaks may have a specific church in mind, but I do not know that.

The next photo is from Ann being a smart-aleck. Judge Rutherford drove a nice car, too, she points out.

The next post is from BibleSpeaks, essentially saying: "OH YEAH?! Well, our guy deserved it because he was our guy!"

Then JWI adds some explanatory details and it is a wonder he does not go on for pages. 

Then follows a photo of me in a 56 Cadillac that is not mine. It belongs to a local businessman. He saw me looking it over. We got to chatting and he offered to take a picture of me in it. He bought the Cadillac from some mogul in Hollywood. It has apparently been in some movies but, for some reason, everyone is tight lipped about just which ones. 


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All  okay,  yes !   I  understand.....    Its  around  all  countries  little  different,  seems so.  Big  cars,  houses  etc.  is  not  all  -  in  poorer  countries  the  people  often  more  happy,  also  JW !   Importend  are other  things...  LOVE,  PEACE  a  bed,  clothes,  bread  and  water :)  All  others  is  little  LUXURY,  but  nice :x:D

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16 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

in  poorer  countries  the  people  often  more  happy,  also  JW !   Importend  are other  things...  LOVE,  PEACE  a  bed,  clothes,  bread  and  water :)  All  others  is  little  LUXURY,  but  nice :x:D

Many years ago a brother from an African branch spoke here. He was amazed at the material wealth. He went on and on about how brothers here even have "washing-up machines." And: "Not only do you have cars here but you have garages in which to put the cars. In Africa, four families would live in that garage!"

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40 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Then JWI adds some explanatory details and it is a wonder he does not go on for pages. 

There is still time!

I thought of the prosperity gospel churches too, and large "personality" mega-churches that highlight their evangelists and "faith healers" on television along with the audiences. However, I suspect that the person who made the original meme was aiming more at the hypocrisy inherent even in more typical church situations where the pastor is a couple of tax brackets higher than the congregation. Another form of clergy/laity distinction. It must seem exacerbated in those poorer neighborhoods with a church, two pawn shops and two liquor stores on every block. The churches in such neighborhoods often grow even with all the block-by-block competition, and the pastors therefore do well.

But I also noticed that Bible Speaks wanted to make it clear that this kind of thing does not happen in her congregation. But can it? She adds "Be on the watch" as if there might be some danger even among our own. But she also added "We are not called Pastors anyhow." This means, evidently, that the idea doesn't apply to us after all.

I take it for granted that most people here know that this is not really a problem among JWs. So is it something to watch out for? Ann shows that it has happened before. Rutherford kept a few houses for his personal use in several places around the world. He had more than one of these expensive cars, simultaneously during the great depression. His own "prosperity" gospel took advantage of the economic desires of his audience, but correctly turned them toward a more spiritual perspective. He had books and booklets and talks called Riches, Prosperity, and Prohibition is from the Devil? Oh wait, that last one didn't turn toward spirituality in the same was as the others, it just went ahead and "proved" that prohibition really was from the Devil. But money was clearly not the primary thing for either Russell or Rutherford. Both of them believed for much of their lives that the end was coming in a matter of years or often, even just a few months. Russell spent the Society's funds like crazy right up until October 1914. No reason to have anything left over. Rutherford didn't turn down the amenities, but he was clearly not driven by money, either.

It's always good to look at the possibilities even if we are really nothing like most of these churches that rake in millions for a feel-good and/or prosperity message that never seems to pan out for the average member. I mentioned the 125-foot yacht for the same reason that Ann mentioned the car. It's a bit thought-provoking about how easy it is to attach ourselves to material things without noticing the effect on onlookers. Watches, jewelry, vacations, chandeliers, cruises, yachts, and such can look like a showy display of one's means, even if that's not what one means.

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One of our elders bought a new Toyota SUV and it has all the doo-dads. Certain brothers are going gaga over it and all the things it can do.  Now - this is not me. I say: "look for a steering wheel and brakes. Whatever else it does nor does not have: get used to it."

So the brothers are slobbering over Frank's SUV and I climb aboard one Saturday morning and pretend to be one of them. "Frankie, does this car have a RADIO?" I ask, as though awestruck. 

But Frankie is cool and he plays along: "Naw, it doesn't have one of those."

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    • One issue with historian Flavius Josephus is that he suggests that the Royal Captain of the (Guard) can also be regarded as General Nebuzaradan. A confusion arises from Josephus' account of the captives mentioned in Jeremiah, as he claims that they were taken from Egypt instead of Babylon. Since Nebuchadnezzar was occupied in Rilah, he directed his generals to lay siege to Jerusalem. This could potentially account for the numerous dispatches that Nebuchadnezzar would have sent to the west, but the considerable distance to Borsippa still poses a challenge. As a result, the Babylonians managed to gain control of regions such as Aram (Syria), Ammon, and Moab. The only territories that remained were the coastal cities, where the Egyptians held sway. King Josiah decided to form an alliance with Babylon instead of being under Egyptian rule. So, that part of the territory was covered until King Josiah was defeated.  It's interesting how they started back then in 4129, but still end up with the same conclusion with Zedekiah's Defeat 3522 607 B.C. 3419 607 B.C. even though their AM is different.  
    • In the era of the Bible Students within the Watchtower, there were numerous beginnings. It is essential to bear in mind that each congregation functioned autonomously, granting the Elders the freedom to assert their own assertions and interpretations. Most people embraced the principles that Pastor Russell was trying to convey. You could argue that what you are experiencing now, they also experienced back then. The key difference is that unity was interpreted differently. Back then it had value where today there is none. To address your inquiry, while I cannot recall the exact details, it is believed to have been either 4129 or 4126. Some groups, however, adopted Ussher's 4004. It is worth mentioning that they have now discarded it and revised it to either 3954 or 3958, although I personally find little interest in this matter. I believe I encountered this information in the book titled "The Time is at Hand," though it may also be referenced in their convention report. Regardless, this is part of their compelling study series 3. Please take a moment to review and confirm the date. I am currently focused on Riblah. The Bible Students who firmly believe that Israel is the prophetic sign of Armageddon have made noteworthy adjustments to their chronology. They have included significant dates such as 1947/8 and 1967/8, as well as more recent dates. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that, according to their calculations, 2024 holds immense importance. The ongoing tension of Iran targeting Israel directly from its own territory amplifies the gravity of the situation. If their trajectory continues, the subsequent captivating event will occur in 2029, rather than as previously speculated, in 2034 by some.
    • Would it be too much to ask what was the bible students starting point of creation?
    • @JW Insider Your summary is irrelevant, as I do not make any assertions regarding BC/AD other than their usage by scholars and in history, as you yourself have also acknowledged on numerous occasions, thus rendering your point invalid and evasive. The Watchtower leverages external viewpoints, including secular evidence, to substantiate the accuracy of their chronological interpretations. There are numerous approaches to dating events. Personally, I explore various alternative methods that lead to the same conclusion as the Watchtower. However, the most captivating approach is to utilize secular chronology to arrive at the same outcome. By relying solely on secular chronology, the pattern still aligns, albeit with a distinct interpretation of the available data. Nevertheless, the ultimate result remains unchanged. This is why when you get upset, when you are proven wrong, you, Tom, and those with the authority to ban take action, because you like others cannot handle the truth. In this case, your infamous tablet VAT 4956 has become useless in this situation. I do agree with you on one thing: you are not an expert, just like COJ. However, I must admit that this foolish individual was not the first to debate the chronology with the Watchtower and abandon it based on personal beliefs. He simply happened to be the most recent one that's on record.
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