It is good to remind oneself about humility

[Witness]

52 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

To walk in the depths of your understanding would not even involve getting the tops of my feet wet.

You should have paid better attention to the timelines of what you were reading, if you got that far.

Instead of insulting me, tell me scripturally where I'm wrong, and maybe we can have a respectful conversation.  

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Perhaps in small definable chunks, when I am not so tired.

... and it was not meant as an insult ... merely an evaluation, or a lamentation of how normally highly intelligent people of good conscience get sidetracked to the point of no return.

I do think you need to take what you know from Revelation, and make a chart on poster board, with a heavy marker, about the time lines of events forecast.

I am too tired to do it for you.

 

 

[Witness]

On 3/10/2020 at 7:54 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Perhaps in small definable chunks, when I am not so tired.

... and it was not meant as an insult ... merely an evaluation, or a lamentation of how normally highly intelligent people of good conscience get sidetracked to the point of no return.

I do think you need to take what you know from Revelation, and make a chart on poster board, with a heavy marker, about the time lines of events forecast.

I am too tired to do it for you.

 

 

No, I don't need to do that. I'm simply bringing out contradictory teachings of your leaders.    Christ's "thousand year reign" is finished.  We have the promise in 1 Cor 15:26 that the last enemy to be destroyed is death, at the end of Armageddon.  This is in harmony with the scripture that I put faith in; Rev 21:1-4.  I was never told as a JW that this promise would not be fulfilled until a thousand years later. I looked forward to its blessings on the other side of Armageddon. Those JWs I knew did also.  But, I see now, that by agreeing with the theory of once living in peace a thousand years into the paradise, Satan would then emerge to deceive a large number of people who would see death, God's promise in Rev 21 would be invalidated.  (Rev 20:7-10)

I choose to hold onto that promise.  Christ's reigning symbolic kingdom and its purpose is spoken of in Col 1:9-14.  

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I hope it works out well for you.

I will just wait and see what happens ... unless I am already safely dead.

[Kosonen]

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Satan would then emerge to deceive a large number of people who would see death, God's promise in Rev 21 would be invalidated.  (Rev 20:7-10)

Witness, look at what Revelation 7 says about what will happen after the great tribulation.

 

Revelation 7:14: And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation,+ and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.+ ¹⁵  That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne+ will spread his tent over them.+ ¹⁶  They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat,+ ¹⁷  because the Lamb,+ who is in the midst* of the throne, will shepherd them+ and will guide them to springs* of waters of life.+ And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

 

And Revelation 22:1 And he showed me a river of water of life,+ clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb+ ²  down the middle of its main street. On both sides of the river were trees of life producing 12 crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations.

[Witness]

On 3/12/2020 at 1:35 AM, Kosonen said:

Witness, look at what Revelation 7 says about what will happen after the great tribulation.

 

Revelation 7:14: And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation,+ and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.+ ¹⁵  That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne+ will spread his tent over them.+ ¹⁶  They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat,+ ¹⁷  because the Lamb,+ who is in the midst* of the throne, will shepherd them+ and will guide them to springs* of waters of life.+ And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

 

And Revelation 22:1 And he showed me a river of water of life,+ clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb+ ²  down the middle of its main street. On both sides of the river were trees of life producing 12 crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations.

Yes, and again these scriptures prove that Satan will not be "let loose" from the abyss one thousand years after Armageddon is finished, to mislead and gather people to "wage war" against Christ and his saints.  (Rev 13:7; 20:7-9)  That is already happening.

   Dan 7:9-27; Rev 20:11-15    

 

[Kosonen]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Yes, and again these scriptures prove that Satan will not be "let loose" from the abyss

Well, those scriptures do not deny that either. Maybe you remarked that those scriptures I cited do not mention death. 

I believe Jesus with the 144000 will have much to do to "force" every person to do go and refrain from sin. Unfortunately even many angels followed Satan. So many of the people who will be born during the 1000 years will not be better. As soon as Jesus and the 144000 stop watching and interfering, many will start to do bad things. 

I have 5 kids. And I am not so happy with their attitudes and I am not sure about their salvation. No matter how much they go to meetings or how much I try to teach them God's norms.

[Witness]

7 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Well, those scriptures do not deny that either. Maybe you remarked that those scriptures I cited do not mention death. 

I believe Jesus with the 144000 will have much to do to "force" every person to do go and refrain from sin. Unfortunately even many angels followed Satan. So many of the people who will be born during the 1000 years will not be better. As soon as Jesus and the 144000 stop watching and interfering, many will start to do bad things. 

I have 5 kids. And I am not so happy with their attitudes and I am not sure about their salvation. No matter how much they go to meetings or how much I try to teach them God's norms.

Dear Kosenen,

You are holding on to a Watchtower teaching.  Now is the day of judgment.  Not during a thousand years of "peace" that the WT teaches.  John 12:31

We are not judged twice.  Only once.  Jesus promises eternal life now.  This promise does not come with condition that we may lose it after Armageddon.  Eternity means just that.  Matt 7:24-27  It is received through our obedience to his teachings...now. John 17:2   If we conquer the evil one through our obedience to the Father and Jesus, during this lifetime, do we need to do it again?  1 John 2:14  What is the reason for the harvest that we know occurs during the last days? Matt 25:31-46

Do you know that other Christian churches have their own version of the "millennium" to happen after Armageddon.  Satan is twisting the pure promise of eternal that is given to the children of the Kingdom of God.  SATAN is the liar, not Jesus Christ and not the Father in Heaven.  What they promise, will come true.

 

 

 

[Kosonen]

36 minutes ago, Witness said:

You are holding on to a Watchtower teaching. 

Not really. But I believe the Bible. And it is true that true Christians, followers of Jesus will after being taken to heaven  never die. Revelation 20:6 is clear about it.

6  Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.

Apostle Paul knew about an earlier resurrection, that was more desirable. He wrote:

Philippians 3:10  My aim is to know him and the power of his resurrection and to share in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his, 11  to see if at all possible I may attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.

[Witness]

3 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Not really. But I believe the Bible. And it is true that true Christians, followers of Jesus will after being taken to heaven  never die. Revelation 20:6 is clear about it.

6  Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.

Apostle Paul knew about an earlier resurrection, that was more desirable. He wrote:

Philippians 3:10  My aim is to know him and the power of his resurrection and to share in his sufferings, submitting myself to a death like his, 11  to see if at all possible I may attain to the earlier resurrection from the dead.

Then I apologize if I am mistaken by thinking you believed in a thousand year reign of Christ after Armageddon.  

[Kosonen]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Then I apologize if I am mistaken by thinking you believed in a thousand year reign of Christ after Armageddon.  

Witness, I believe in a 1000 year reign of Jesus  Christ  and of the 144000. And those 144000 are happy to get immortality when they are taken to heaven. But those who survive the great tribulation and stay on earth will face a critical time when Satan is allowed to return to mislead  after the 1000 year reign of Jesus and the 144000 anointed.

But if you are worried about that time, why don't you put an extra effort in believing in Jesus and believing every thing he taught? Because Jesus promised such ones would be born from above and become God's children and become anointed and become kings to rule together  with him from heaven.

John 1:11  He came to his own home, but his own people did not accept him. 12  However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name. 13  And they were born, not from blood or from a fleshly will or from man’s will, but from God.

John 3:5 Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

Luke 22:28  “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29  and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Witness, I believe in a 1000 year reign of Jesus  Christ  and of the 144000. And those 144000 are happy to get immortality when they are taken to heaven. But those who survive the great tribulation and stay on earth will face a critical time when Satan is allowed to return to mislead  after the 1000 year reign of Jesus and the 144000 anointed.

You are saying that the faithful anointed will be safely reigning in heaven with Jesus Christ, while all on earth will face a "critical time" when Satan misleads them after they have enjoyed paradise for a thousand years.  

That is not what the scriptures say.  

Rev 20:7-9

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison  and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 They came up across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them." 

Not only are the "nations" deceived, but so are the "saints"  - the anointed of God - "Israel", who comprise "New Jerusalem".  IF, as you say, all of the anointed "144,000" are reigning in heaven then they would not be deceived and surrounded by "Gog and Magog".  

There are two instances in Revelation where these "kings of the earth", Jesus' kings, (Rev 1:5) are deceived, gathered and surrounded.   Rev 20:7-9 and Rev 16:14

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.  For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

¹⁵ “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”  Rev 16:13-15

Both Revelation 20 and 16 are describing the same event that develops after Satan is "let loose" from the abyss.  

Today, the anointed saints and nations of the whole world, are deceived, gathered and surrounded in the Watchtower organization, the Beast of Revelation 13:1 that blasphemes the saints, under the direction of a false prophet.  Rev 13:5-7,11,12,14-17

8 hours ago, Kosonen said:

But if you are worried about that time, why don't you put an extra effort in believing in Jesus and believing every thing he taught?

If you only knew how much "extra effort" I have taken to know Jesus Christ since leaving the organization.  He admonishes us to "keep our garments", our identity as pure from deceit, from falsehoods.  Rev 3:18 explains how to do that:

 ^"I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. "