....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, Thinking said:

.but I guess this is a prime example of true brotherhood...we sort it out and fix it up..

Yes. Looking back on the thread, I see how easy the mistake was to make. Were the misunderstanding valid, you would be absolutely right to rebuke me. I would have done the same. I have at times. 

People don’t have time to read all this in depth. They see a seeming injustice and they jump on it. I do not always speak plainly, and I do sometimes speak too much. 

I would not say that it is only the brotherhood where such things can be sorted out—with both ready to make amends, both ready to walk things back, both ready to apologize without worry about saving face. But I can think of many settings in which such a misunderstanding would not be readily sorted out, and instead would serve as a wedge to trigger further arguments. 

For all the greater world speaks of “coming together,” they tend not to do it very often.

[Ann O'Maly]

On 8/20/2020 at 4:41 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Now the viewing of such pornography does not harm the child

I disagree - as do child abuse prevention agencies.

Quote

Some adults may justify their viewing of child sexual abuse material by saying to themselves or others that they would never behave sexually with a child in person or that there is no “real” child being harmed. However, survivors have described a difficulty in healing when their past abuse is continually being viewed by strangers, making it hard for them to reclaim that part of their life. You can remind an adult engaging in these abusive behaviors that it is illegal, that the images they’re viewing are crime scene photographs, and there is a real survivor being harmed from these images. - https://www.stopitnow.org/faq/is-viewing-child-pornography-child-sexual-abuse-material-child-sexual-abuse

Also see this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/protecting-children-sexual-abuse/202008/language-matters-child-pornography-no-longer

Now to JTR. We do not know the exact nature of the material or the circumstances leading to his (alleged) possession or viewing of it, and I'm not going to speculate. I will be most interested in the outcome of his future trial, whichever way it goes. I'm sure other members here feel the same. As he was a frequent poster here, that outcome should, imo, be shared on this forum just as his arrest was. There's nothing shameful about posting publicly available, factual information on a person we interacted with and which could help explain his cryptic message and sudden absence, @Thinking. The shame is in being arrested for that crime.

I just hope his family and the (alleged) victims are coping OK because this whole saga must be turning their worlds upside-down. Too often we focus on the accused and forget the other lives upended by this.

[Witness]

21 hours ago, Anna said:

It doesn't really matter does it? Are we to ignore good principles and advice just because they were not directly written to us? These are arrangements which help run things in an organized way in a congregation.

What’s more important to you -

God’s Temple arrangement of His priesthood – 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

Or, men’s organizational arrangement which “represents” God’s priesthood?

What do you think is more important to God?

"Have you not driven out the priests of the LORD, the sons of Aaron and the Levites, and made for yourselves priests like the peoples of [other] lands? Whoever comes to consecrate himself with a young bull and seven rams, even he may become a priest of [what are] no gods.”  2 Chron 13:9

Which arrangement is “holy”?

“If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.” 1 Cor 3:17

Since the elders “represent”, judge, spiritually “kill” anointed who speak up for Christ’s Body which is God’s Temple and is the house of His Spirit…

… who/what do you think this scripture is speaking about:

“who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.” 2 Thess 2:4

You see, it does matter to make the distinction between the "holy and the common", between God's arrangement of the Temple in Christ, and man's flawed, corrupt arrangement of an earthly organization. (Ezek 44:23)  

It matters, because in the last days, the "man of lawlessness" created by Satan, is so powerful, so deceitful, that JWs prefer not to know the truth about it.  They prefer their organized "priesthood" over God's anointed priesthood of His Temple.  I so wish you and all JWs, thirsted to know the truth. 

2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13:4,18

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

The shame is in being arrested for that crime.

 

3 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

We do not know the exact nature of the material or the circumstances leading to his (alleged) possession or viewing of it, and I'm not going to speculate

You don’t see a contradiction between your two statements above? Did it pain you to say ‘alleged?’  I think you are confusing justice with the French Revolution, where a denouncement in itself was enough to send one to the guillotine. 

 

3 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Too often we focus on the accused and forget the other lives upended by this.

Until we see a conviction, we cannot assume that there were any.

[Srecko Sostar]

9 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

4 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Too often we focus on the accused and forget the other lives upended by this.

Until we see a conviction, we cannot assume that there were any.

I believe Ann O'Maly's viewpoint is of general value, and it does not target particular, this one, case.   

[Ann O'Maly]

15 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You don’t see a contradiction between your two statements above?

How so?

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Did it pain you to say ‘alleged?’

Not at all.

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

 I think you are confusing justice with the French Revolution, where a denouncement in itself was enough to send one to the guillotine. 

Um ... what?

 

20 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Until we see a conviction, we cannot assume that there were any.

Are you assuming his family is breezing through this unaffected? That this situation will only impact their lives if he is convicted? What planet are you living on, Tom?

[Anna]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

8 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Too often we focus on the accused and forget the other lives upended by this.

Until we see a conviction, we cannot assume that there were any.

Sorry for butting in, but I think she meant JTR's family too. I am sure JTR getting arrested has had a negative impact on them (his wife etc.), regardless whether he is guilty or innocent.

edit: Ok, I just saw she explained it...

[Nathaniel Compton]

It seems Allen Smith called it in the past and was deleted for speaking up, as many do here about such behavior. The condemnation is strong unless a beloved friend becomes, involved.

https://bustedncmugshots.com/rook-james-thomas-mugshot-8-16-2020-424-pm-gaston-county-north-carolina/

I will not disparage his person other than to say, regardless if he is convicted or not, he can still “repent” in order to save his soul while contemplating his past actions should it end that way of being judged and sentenced by a government he imagined of.

Unfortunately, no one, be it a former member or a present one can defend an action coming from human imperfection. This is why God choose to put those words in scripture, because  those opposed to structured law be it from man’s law or God’s law, anyone can fall victim to Satan’s influence.

My heart goes out to his family with such a human trail.

 

§ 14-190.17. Second degree sexual exploitation of a minor.

(a) Offense. – A person commits the offense of second degree sexual exploitation of a minor if, knowing the character or content of the material, he: (1) Records, photographs, films, develops, or duplicates material that contains a visual representation of a minor engaged in sexual activity; or (2) Distributes, transports, exhibits, receives, sells, purchases, exchanges, or solicits material that contains a visual representation of a minor engaged in sexual activity. (b) Inference. – In a prosecution under this section, the trier of fact may infer that a participant in sexual activity whom material through its title, text, visual representations or otherwise represents or depicts as a minor is a minor. (c) Mistake of Age. – Mistake of age is not a defense to a prosecution under this section. (d) Punishment and Sentencing. – Violation of this section is a Class E felony. (1985, c. 703, s. 9; 1993, c. 539, s. 1197; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2008-117, s. 4; 2008-218, s. 3.)

§ 14-190.17A.  Third degree sexual exploitation of a minor.

(a)        Offense. - A person commits the offense of third degree sexual exploitation of a minor if, knowing the character or content of the material, he possesses material that contains a visual representation of a minor engaging in sexual activity.

(b)        Inference. - In a prosecution under this section, the trier of fact may infer that a participant in sexual activity whom material through its title, text, visual representations or otherwise represents or depicts as a minor is a minor.

(c)        Mistake of Age. - Mistake of age is not a defense to a prosecution under this section.

(d)       Punishment and Sentencing. - Violation of this section is a Class H felony.  (1989 (Reg. Sess., 1990), c. 1022, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 1198; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2008-117, s. 5; 2008-218, s. 4.)

 

Thus far, the State is charging him with 3 counts of sexual exploitation of pornographic material, not interaction with a physical child. The States argument is Child Porn.

If he gets a good lawyer since this is a criminal offense, he can get 3 years probation. However, he will need to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. This is the argument brought before the courts. How excessive is the punishment against the crime.

[Thinking]

21 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

I disagree - as do child abuse prevention agencies.

Also see this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/protecting-children-sexual-abuse/202008/language-matters-child-pornography-no-longer

Now to JTR. We do not know the exact nature of the material or the circumstances leading to his (alleged) possession or viewing of it, and I'm not going to speculate. I will be most interested in the outcome of his future trial, whichever way it goes. I'm sure other members here feel the same. As he was a frequent poster here, that outcome should, imo, be shared on this forum just as his arrest was. There's nothing shameful about posting publicly available, factual information on a person we interacted with and which could help explain his cryptic message and sudden absence, @Thinking. The shame is in being arrested for that crime.

I just hope his family and the (alleged) victims are coping OK because this whole saga must be turning their worlds upside-down. Too often we focus on the accused and forget the other lives upended by this.

I am not suddenly absent Anne and you have done much more than speculate. 
so let me be less cryptic for you.

You are In my opinion a shameful trouble maker with very little sense ........again you say the shame is being arrested for that crime .. again you have presumed he is guilty of that crime...more personal speculation on your part

It would have been much wiser to have perhaps spoken or shared this info privately with some one you could trust ..and waited to see the legal outcome of what you found on the Internet

Many people have been arrested for crimes....the shame comes when one is guilty of that crime.

The shame comes when one rushes with information that may or may not be true...And places it on a public forum ......a fool does that Anne

you started this whole saga and now you hope his family will be okay...you didn’t care a fig about his family when you posted up his mug shot and allegations ..so don’t pretend to now.

I am not participating in this public debacle because of the reasons I have clearly stated.

just for the record ..I am a she and not a he 

[Ann O'Maly]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

You are In my opinion a shameful trouble maker with very little sense

It seems to me you like to shoot the messenger.

Quote

... again you say the shame is being arrested for that crime .. again you have presumed he is guilty of that crime...more personal speculation on your part ...

... Many people have been arrested for crimes....the shame comes when one is guilty of that crime.

Guilty or innocent, do you not think it shameful to be arrested for sexual offenses?

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

The shame comes when one rushes with information that may or may not be true...And places it on a public forum ......a fool does that Anne

1. Do you not know this site at all?

2. The information I posted was true and already public.

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

you started this whole saga and now you hope his family will be okay...you didn’t care a fig about his family when you posted up his mug shot and allegations ..

I didn't post his mugshot and allegations. I posted an embedded link to the inmate page that only signed-in members of the forum could access. 

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

..so don’t pretend to now.

Now look who's speculating.

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

I am not participating in this public debacle because of the reasons I have clearly stated.

And yet you are and have been participating.

Edit to add: I was referring to JTR's cryptic message and sudden absence. I think you may have read too quickly, @Thinking.

[TrueTomHarley]

There are people who live to slander. 

Is there shame in an arrest? Not on the part of the one arrested until he/she is found guilty. If found innocent, the shame may even be on the accusers.

Is it not slander to take an accusation that would otherwise never go beyond some tiny community billboard and re-broadcast it to the whole world news media .org?

In Ann’s defense, she is hardly the first one to do this. It is the new standard of the world and has been for some time. An arrest is synonymous to a conviction in the new world of “journalism.” She can’t possibly have missed the point of the reference to the French Revolution in which a denouncement was enough to send one to the guillotine—she is not stupid.

[Thinking]

28 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

It seems to me you like to shoot the messenger.

Guilty or innocent, do you not think it shameful to be arrested for sexual offenses?

1. Do you not know this site at all?

2. The information I posted was true and already public.

I didn't post his mugshot and allegations. I posted an embedded link to the inmate page that only signed-in members of the forum could access. 

Now look who's speculating.

And yet you are and have been participating.

True I have come in some way to the defence of someone I was a bit fond off. Perhaps not defence but for him to be given the right of presumed innocent until found guilty. And thus participated in this to that degree. But there is really nothing more I can say on the matter. I’ve said what I have concerning a spiritual brother. Not sure you would comprehend the principles involved with that.

True I took the bait and opened that link that started this fiasco...more fool me and a lesson learned to a degree.

False that the info was true....yet to be proved

False a person should not be made to feel shamed if they are innocent of such charges...how on earth did you come to such a conclusion?