Jump to content
The World News Media

Did Carnivores Exist Before the Flood of Noah's Day?


The Librarian

Recommended Posts


  • Views 12k
  • Replies 166
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

(bold mine) It explains that God can choose to see what he wants to see. In any case, even humans can predict a certain outcome based on certain behavior, how much more so a God who is a lot smarter t

blo·vi·ate /ˈblōvēˌāt/   verb  informal•US gerund or present participle: bloviating

I think everybody here is missing the point of Life, The Universe, and Everything. Yes, the WTB&TS is guilty of hundreds of sins over a hundred and more years, but the fact is that in a Unive

Posted Images

  • Member
5 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Is that not the topic of this thread, or have we moved on to another topic? You state, "at the time of their creation" as a point of reference.

You're right. But one topic cannot do without another. Trying to elaborate on the topic of animals and their diet before and after the Flood is difficult without trying to find out their original state, ie the relationship between all species of animals and the type of diet in the initial stage of existence. If I may remind you of my older comment on this (as well as on many other topics); We can only speculate. :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
6 hours ago, Dmitar said:
11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Let say this way. If we assumed that God expected Adam and Eve to do something in life, be it physical, intellectual, emotional or ideological/theoretical, then it cannot be under the burden of a “curse”.  Adam and Eve had to deal with the same “program of work” regardless of the change in their status before God. It is obvious that God made it difficult for them to carry out his own original plan. 

How does this square with the fact man was made perfect. Had man continued to be perfect in the Garden, how would they know what plants had illicit use? Then, there would be no such sinful placement upon man with such cursed ideology.

According to the WTJWorg interpretation, Adam and Eve along with their descendants lived long after their expulsion from Paradise. So they did not die the day they sinned. Various ideas about how long a biblical "day" lasts add to the confusion. We might speculate that their long life is a legacy of the remaining traces of “perfection”.

WTJWorg’s next idea is that Adam and Eve were aware of each of their actions. If so, then at the time of creation they already knew what to eat and what not. Or do you think that by being expelled from Paradise they became demented and forgot what could be eaten. :) 

It is difficult to understand God, especially after so many interpretations of him generated by religious leaders. :) 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

I think the information in the Scriptures is for a purpose and that purpose is not to tell us everything, but to tell us what we 'need' to know. 

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is difficult to understand God, especially after so many interpretations of him generated by religious leaders. :) 

I've stopped listening to 'religious leaders' and prefer to believe what God's word says about Him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

According to the WTJWorg interpretation, Adam and Eve along with their descendants lived long after their expulsion from Paradise.

I would you much rather you quote scripture and not some organization you have a problem with.

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If so, then at the time of creation they already knew what to eat and what not. Or do you think that by being expelled from Paradise they became demented and forgot what could be eaten.

How does this relate to scripture and carnivores, since Genesis is clear about the vegetation? Can we then think, God made faulty beings?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Coprolite

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  (Redirected from Corprolite)
 
 
Jump to navigation Jump to search
220px-Tyrannosaurus_rex_Coprolite_Poozeu
 
A large coprolite of a carnivorous dinosaur found in Harding County, South Dakota, USA. Photo courtesy of the Poozeum
220px-Precious_the_Coprolite_Courtesy_of
 
A large Miocene coprolite from South Carolina, USA.
220px-A_large_coprolite_%28fossilized_fe
 
A large coprolite (fossilized feces) from South Carolina, USA.
220px-Coprolites_with_Inclusions.jpg
 
Age: White River Oligocene; Location: Northwest Nebraska; Dimensions: Varies (25 mm X 20 mm); Weight: 8-10 g; Features: Many small inclusions and one has a complete toe bone from a small deer called a leptomeryx.

A coprolite (also known as a coprolith) is fossilized feces. Coprolites are classified as trace fossils as opposed to body fossils, as they give evidence for the animal's behaviour (in this case, diet) rather than morphology. The name is derived from the Greek words κόπρος (kopros, meaning "dung") and λίθος (lithos, meaning "stone"). They were first described by William Buckland in 1829. Prior to this they were known as "fossil fir cones" and "bezoar stones". They serve a valuable purpose in paleontology because they provide direct evidence of the predation and diet of extinct organisms.[1] Coprolites may range in size from a few millimetres to over 60 centimetres.

Coprolites, distinct from paleofeces, are fossilized animal dung. Like other fossils, coprolites have had much of their original composition replaced by mineral deposits such as silicates and calcium carbonates. Paleofeces, on the other hand, retain much of their original organic composition and can be reconstituted to determine their original chemical properties, though in practice the term coprolite is also used for ancient human faecal material in archaeological contexts.[2][3][4]

Initial discovery

British fossil hunter Mary Anning noticed as early as 1824 that "bezoar stones" were often found in the abdominal region of ichthyosaur skeletons found in the Lias formation at Lyme Regis.[5] She also noted that if such stones were broken open they often contained fossilized fish bones and scales as well as sometimes bones from smaller ichthyosaurs. It was these observations by Anning that led the geologist William Buckland to propose in 1829 that the stones were fossilized feces and name them coprolites. Buckland also suspected that the spiral markings on the fossils indicated that ichthyosaurs had spiral ridges in their intestines similar to those of modern sharks, and that some of these coprolites were black with ink from swallowed belemnites.[6]

Research value

By examining coprolites, paleontologists are able to find information about the diet of the animal (if bones or other food remains are present), such as whether it was a herbivore or a carnivore, and the taphonomy of the coprolites, although the producer is rarely identified unambiguously,[7] especially with more ancient examples.[8] In some instances, knowledge about the anatomy of animal digestive tracts can be helpful in assigning a coprolite to the animal that produced it, one example being the finding that the Triassic dinosauriform Silesaurus may have been an insectivore, a suggestion which was based on the beak-like jaws of the animal and the high density of beetle remains found in associated coprolites.[9] Further, coprolites can be analyzed for certain minerals that are known to exist in trace amounts in certain species of plant that can still be detected millions of years later.[10]

Conclusion by Pudgy the 2d Cartoon Dog

Animals have been herbivores, Omnivores and Carnivores since the very beginning, BILLIONS of years ago, or at the very least, many hundreds of millions of years ago, and there is HARD evidence to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that this is true ....

UNLESS, of course your neurons are agenda driven programmed to the contrary, or you are as deliberately and willfully stupid as ...uh... Coprolite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
13 hours ago, Dmitar said:

I would you much rather you quote scripture and not some organization you have a problem with.

Scriptures have their advantages, but they also have their disadvantages. It is not a book on natural sciences, geology, biology, zoology, etc. For many of the things we are discussing we will never find a biblical quote. Or do you think it's possible?
If possible, then let’s say, who in this JW Open Club can quote some biblical passage that supports the thesis of JW Christians that blood components and fractions are that what they are not, or that they are not what they are? 

Many have a problem with WTJWorg, not just me. Loyal members have a bigger problem, because they are inside and I am outside :)) The fact that we are in the JW Open Club and that we are developing various discussions under this platform shows that you are not quite right in that assessment.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Scriptures have their advantages, but they also have their disadvantages. It is not a book on natural sciences, geology, biology, zoology, etc. For many of the things we are discussing we will never find a biblical quote. Or do you think it's possible?

Since the topic seems to relate to a biblical event, you would think it's best looked at through the eyes of scripture. Archorolgy has a different approach. Therefore, scripture can be found. Perhaps not to anyone's satisfaction here, but it can be applied.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Many have a problem with WTJWorg, not just me. Loyal members have a bigger problem, because they are inside and I am outside :))

I don't consider anyone disparaging their own faith loyal. However, that would be for a different topic. I also don't see where it would make a difference on this topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
14 hours ago, Dmitar said:

@PudgyCan you explain, with your presentation, accidental digestion of a smaller animal inside dense vegetation by a larger animal?

I can do better than THAT!

Being a Cartoon Carnivore I can authoritatively state as an expert that Cartoon Herbivores such as artists' renditions of Cartoon Rabbits, that they can be caught in an elevated upside down box trap baited with a photograph of a carrot.

...... moral of the story is this:

.... silly questions may be legitimately answered with silly answers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
12 hours ago, Pudgy said:

.... silly questions may be legitimately answered with silly answers.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/when-herbivores-arent-poor-chicken-got-eaten-cow-180951115/#:~:text=Lal the cow’s behaviour might be motivated by,of behaviour that we’re only beginning to document.

Do cows ever eat meat? Herbivores eat plants and carnivores eat meat, and then there are a few oddball omnivores that eat both. Cows are probably the best-known ruminants (and have been witnessed eating birds). Yet even animals from this highly plant-specialized group will eat meat when given the chance.

The answer you seem to draw your remark from is with the word accidental. This just means, as you imply, low IQ when it comes to not understanding a simple question. However, I noticed you draw your strength from being rude and obnoxious. Is this a Jehovah Witness trait? Or have you recently be removed from that organization you adamantly disparage to a point, you don't care what people think of your organization. Is this your intent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
55 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Or have you recently be removed from that organization you adamantly disparage to a point, you don't care what people think of your organization. Is this your intent?

1. I don't think he liked the 'hpocritical discipline' of the JW Org's elders.

2. I think he may have had a problem which led to him being d/fed. 

3. I could be wrong on both counts above. :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...




  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."  It therefore follows, that every one of those who undertake to promote the good of their neighbours, ought to consider whether he has betaken himself to teaching rashly and out of rivalry to any; if his communication of the word is out of vainglory; if the the only reward he reaps is the salvation of those who hear, and if he speaks not in order to win favour: if so, he who speaks by writings escapes the reproach of mercenary motives. "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know," says the apostle, "nor a cloak of covetousness. God is witness. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."   (from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2) Divine promises 2. The manner of shunning, in the word escaping. There is a flying away required, and that quickly, as in the plague, or from a fire which hath almost burned us, or a flood that breaketh in upon us. We cannot soon enough escape from sin (Matt 3:7; Heb 6:18). No motion but flight becomes us in this case. Doctrine: That the great end and effect of the promises of the gospel is to make us partakers of the Divine nature. (from The Biblical Illustrator)  
    • Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."  
    • Nice little thread you’ve got going here, SciTech. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it.
    • It's truly disheartening when someone who is supposed to be a friend of the exclusive group resorts to using profanity in their comments, just like other members claiming to be witnesses. It's quite a ludicrous situation for the public to witness.  Yet, the "defense" of such a person, continues. 
    • No. However, I would appreciate if you do not reveal to all and sundry the secret meeting place of the closed club. (I do feel someone bad stomping on Sci’s little thread. But I see that has already happened.)
  • Members

    • jeffmor64

      jeffmor64 0

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
  • Recent Status Updates

    • lauleb  »  misette

      merci pour ton travail très utile. tu es une aide qui fortifie
      · 0 replies
    • Pamela Dunston  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hi, TB
      I would like to get the weekly meeting and watchtower materials  and the 2024 convention 
      Attend the 2024 Convention—“Declare the Good News!”
      notebook, I just recently got a new computer, If don't mind my brother to add me on and allow me access to our study again.
       
      Thank you, so much
      Sister Dunston
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24  »  DARLENE2022

      Hello, Darlene, I just love your name, I had a cousin named Darline, and had a classmate also named Darlene! It's a pleasure to know another Darlene! Especially a Spiritual Sister! There's some websites, Ministry Ideaz , JW Stuff.com, and Etsy that I use to order my yearly buttons for the Conventions! They always send me what I order, and their also Jehovah's Witnesses, that send us the merchandise we order!  You can check out these websites, and they might have what your looking for! I hope I have been helpful in assisting you, Darlene! Agape love, Shirley!😀
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      2024"Enter Into God's Rest" Circuit Assembly! 
      · 0 replies
    • Janice Lewis  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hello Twyla, when will the weekly study material be available. I am a member.
      Janice Lewis     lewisjanice84@gmail.com
      Thank you
      · 1 reply
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      159.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,685
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    josteiki
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.