BETHEL'S BIG SECRET

[Witness]

20 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

If the publications were indeed concealed, why is it the Archives exist, which is actually known to JWs? 

JWs in general?  NO!!  They don't all know about it!  They blindly follow their leaders advice to stay away from anything that is not approved by the GB!  

This was posted by a JW, for JWs:

To My Beloved Brothers and Sisters. New Light is here!

I wanted to share something quite profound with you, penned by our own founder and published in the Watchtower before it was called "The Watchtower". He was so right about this point! I've included the first paragraph for context, but I would really like your opinions on the second paragraph especially. I tried to pick points that would warrant highlighting, but I found that the whole paragraph would then be colored and it would be moot. The whole thing is important, then as it is now and will be into the future. This is the truth about New Light. Much peace and love to you all.

During (these last few) years, the Lord has been leading us, his people, in a very remarkable manner: As we look backward we can see that our pathway has been as "a shining light... shining more and more." It has been progressive, bringing us strength with "meat in due season." It has caused us to grow both in grace and knowledge and this growth, taken in connection with the fact that we are not obliged to look back and now call darkness what was then called by some of the brethren, "a great flood of light," is the very strongest grounds for confidence that the same Lord who then supplied us light from the word, is still providing of the same kind. We say then, "cast not away your confidence" in our Leader, "the great shepherd of the sheep."

If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now: But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New light" never extinguishes older "light," but adds to it. If you were lighting up a building containing seven gas jets you would not extinguish one every time you lighted another, but would add one light to another and they would be in harmony and thus give increase of light: So is it with the light of truth; the true increase is by adding to, not by substituting one for another.

1881 Zion's Watch Tower https://archive.org/details/1881ZionsWatchTower/page/n49/mode/2up

The above source is an archive site, a safe and public library featuring much of the last century's print works, free of charge. It includes much of our old publications, even well beyond what we can access through JW.ORG What a treasure trove, don't you think?

Obviously, the intention here is to help his brothers and sisters use some critical thinking skills. But, If every JW knew about the Archive, why would this JW NEED to assure his brothers and sister that it was available...and that it is safe?  This is the same man who was surprised at finding out that there is an inaccessible database already on the JW website.  Still, many will not go to the Archive out of fear.  I've been there, I've been in that situation.  You haven't been a JW to understand this.  Why can't you just accept it?  I presented the video with no written personal opinion.  I posted it for anyone to see and form their own opinion.  They can accept it as fact, or reject it.  You, on the other hand, pick it apart and blame me for what you find is inaccurate...as if I was the one who produced it. 

  

[Space Merchant]

@Witness Please answer the 3 questions directly, for what you attested is irrelevant from what is being asked. The 3 questions were mentioned for a reason, in a way, these are zeroing questions. Asked in a way to prevent deviation, done so on purpose for that reason.

I will quote them, answer accordingly -

NOTE - Some have linked several Archives on here before, and or cited some, it is already known that I have done to same in our first debate, therefore, answer accordingly, as you stated, 1 John 4:1 is being used here, respect that verse.

34 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

@Witness I made this separate from the other response because you evaded this numerous times with remarks and claims.

Were the Bible Students racist in the early 1900s as the YouTuber attested to with his bias opinion in his first example - Yes or No.

If the publications were indeed concealed, why is it the Archives exist, which is actually known to JWs? 

Why claim JWs do not know about publications in the Archives when numerous times they/ even by example, present  or cite it (i.e. some of JWI's remarks, Anna, etc. even Bible Students, Reslight), even on this forum, as is with the examples mentioned on other forums and YouTubers who are JW?

1 John 4:1 is being used in regards to you.

This are direct questions, I suggest you not use remarks to dance around them, otherwise, it would simply expose you to everyone here of you attempting to push misinformation, as you have done many times before.

 

Also the irony, you said the publication were concealed, yet you linked an Archive, the same one I cited. Jehovah's Witnesses do know about this, you saying they don't, is misinformation that is misleading.

 

9 minutes ago, Witness said:

1881 Zion's Watch Tower https://archive.org/details/1881ZionsWatchTower/page/n49/mode/2up

 

 

 

[Witness]

33 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Do you remember, I told you that, It's still there under the 4Woman blog? And if they made any "revisions" or "adjustment" to reflect something differently, they haven't. Yet, the blogger Pearl Doxsey and her husband are still members of that forum. Therefore, that still stands as indicated. That's 6 years of deception.

Care to continue with your false presentation?

I'M still a member of that forum.  So?  I already told you it is accessed from the blog.  Where's the deception?  It hasn't been used for how long?  Check and see.  No "revisions" or "adjustments" have been made, as the Wt is so adept at doing.  

Care to end your false presentation?  My goodness.  

[Witness]

1 minute ago, Space Merchant said:

Please answer the 3 questions directly,

No.  I chose the one I cared to answer.  You have such a habit of ordering people around.  

[Space Merchant]

36 minutes ago, Witness said:

No.  I chose the one I cared to answer.  You have such a habit of ordering people around.  

Then you just confirmed the video in question is misleading. And Zeroing produced the results, you using a false witness, big mistake if you dodged zeroing questions which was asked out of respect for 1 John 4:1. The verse has nothing to do with ordering, if questions are raised, it is because of what you engineered by design, by your hand, yours alone.

 

Were the Bible Students racist in the early 1900s as the YouTuber attested to with his bias opinion in his first example - Yes or No.

The answer to that is simply No, mainly if anyone is aware of the history. The Bible Students were not Racist as the video attested to in the first example.

If the publications were indeed concealed, why is it the Archives exist, which is actually known to JWs? 

The answer to that is Archives do exist, majority of Jehovah's Witnesses and others know they exist, therefore the claims of concealment from someone with a bias opinion is an example of bearing a false witness. As a side note, JWs only concern is their publications being twisted to obscure whatever it is they are saying, hence their stance of avoidance of apostate material; those disgruntled of their faith.

Why claim JWs do not know about publications in the Archives when numerous times they/ even by example, present  or cite it (i.e. some of JWI's remarks, Anna, etc. even Bible Students, Reslight), even on this forum, as is with the examples mentioned on other forums and YouTubers who are JW?

The answer to that is simply, the claim made by you [Witness] was incorrect, these Archives JWs know about,  these archives DO exist, some of them linked and or cited these archives, and just recently you yourself just linked one, hence why I added it to my quote.

You exposed yourself with the below despite the fact I cited this originally where you attest something else to defend misleading information.

  

43 minutes ago, Witness said:

The above source is an archive site, a safe and public library featuring much of the last century's print works, free of charge.

 

Claim these do not exist of which is unknown to JWs, but free to say the following above....

JWI, Anna and the others are aware these, example, the information on Tulsa, which JWI is aware of, as are those in the source who has this information, likewise with Reslight, who has an abundance of Bible Student and CTR information, granted, as I told you in 2018, this guy has 50+ worth of research and sources on CTR.

Verdict, the YouTuber video, which was used by you, is 100% based on bias opinion of his own experience, nothing of the sort is deemed factual therefore, the challenge here, even by means of Allen himself who also called it out, and James, shows this to be the case.

 

As a side note, I am sure that you are, as mentioned, among the older ones here, hence you felt the need to give your history before recently, even in regards to the Catholicism backing. The fact you lack critical thinking when it comes to historical accounts that indirectly impact Bible Students, is quite jarring, to alluded to the thought the events of the 1900s seems to be untrue, is quite sad. In respects, children today know that history of events of that Era.

That being said, next time when you are using misleading sources, and lies, perhaps do so in a way that people cannot discern said sources.

You said it best...

On 1/28/2022 at 11:56 PM, Witness said:

"An honest witness tells the truth

but a false witness tells lies."  Prov 12:17

 

As @Dmitarsaid in that thread in that regard; apply what you are saying, do not go around it because you willfully feel the need to do so. ExJW or not, your downfall here was misinformation.

That said, once 1 John 4:1 (a critical verse) is used against you and you go around that, kind of worse than telling lies, it shows that your spirit, as an alleged chosen one of God, is a tainted spirit.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Go repent. Because this time around you will need it, for you engineered your own branding, so to speak.

[Dmitar]

41 minutes ago, Witness said:

I'M still a member of that forum.  So?  I already told you it is accessed from the blog.  Where's the deception?  It hasn't been used for how long?  Check and see.  No "revisions" or "adjustments" have been made, as the Wt is so adept at doing.  

Care to end your false presentation?  My goodness.  

That you keep contradicting yourself with your own proof. At some point, you really need to start making sense, really!

[Dmitar]

9 hours ago, Witness said:

881 Zion's Watch Tower https://archive.org/details/1881ZionsWatchTower/page/n49/mode/2up

The above source is an archive site, a safe and public library featuring much of the last century's print works, free of charge. It includes much of our old publications, even well beyond what we can access through JW.ORG What a treasure trove, don't you think?

There are thousands of libraries across the world. Some printed literature is PUBLIC domain. In the USA, anything before 1923 is considered public domain. What does old publications have to do with printed material that isn't considered public domain?

What secrecy is there with copyright material. With the correct permission, you can access copyright material. That doesn't mean if an institution has a library with copyright material, you are free to distribute it.

Just because YOU personally infringe on the Watchtower's COPYRIGHT material doesn't mean others have the right to follow your unethical Christian conduct.

Try doing that with the Vatican Library, and the Vatican police will arrest you on the spot. Many institution libraries are there for research, such as the U.N. Library,

Yet, none of that has anything to do with your unchristian quest. 

If we, cannot be as we would, we must be as we can: -- The ark to the dove was like a prison, a place of restraint, and not according to her kind, which was to fly abroad; yet, finding no rest, rather than she will perish, she returneth to the same again. It may teach us this, that better is a mischief than an inconvenience, if we cannot as we would, we must as we can. I speak it against all heathenish and unchristian like impatience. The heathens, rather than they would serve, they would kill themselves. And many in these days, rather than they will suffer what God imposeth, will do what God detesteth. Let it not be so. If we cannot be abroad and at liberty, because God's judgment against sin hath taken away our footing in such or such sort, whilst it shall please Him let us be content; return, as the clove did, to the place appointed, and thank Him for mercy even in that, that yet there we live, and are not destroyed as others have been.

(Bishop Babington.)

 

[Dmitar]

By thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 12:37
ALL our words are taken by the Lord as an index of our hearts. If our words are rebellious, or disloyal, or frivolous, or flippant, or unkind, unthankful, unholy or impure, the heart is judged accordingly, on the principle that, "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."... That as imperfect beings we may always be perfect in word and deed is not possible. Despite our best endeavors we will sometimes err in word as well as in deed, yet the perfect mastery of our words and ways is the thing to be sought by vigilant and faithful effort.

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

The answer to that is Archives do exist, majority of Jehovah's Witnesses and others know they exist, therefore the claims of concealment from someone with a bias opinion is an example of bearing a false witness.

For a man who demands facts, you use a lot of "bias" opinions.  

Again and for the last time, I did not post the video because of the racial aspect, but to show JWs that a separate login is available for a select few, providing access the database of Wt. publications.   If you don't think this is "news" to JWs, then read the comments under the video to see the reaction of those people who are, or once was, a JW.

 

10 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Go repent. Because this time around you will need it, for you engineered your own branding, so to speak.

 It looks to me that you are quite guilty of applying this yourself. 

This coverup is intentional by the Wt., to lock away their faulty teachings from the public and from the general population of JWs, which shows the necessary hiding of their sins.  This was my focus.  I have nothing to repent because of it.  

The GB are modern day Pharisees, cleaning the outside of the cup - the face of their website that the population sees -  but inside, are full of "greed and evil".  (Luke 11:39)  The history of the publications shows them as false prophets, false teachers, prophesying/teaching "delusions of their own mind".  Jer 23:26 

 

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

21 minutes ago, Witness said:

For a man who demands facts, you use a lot of "bias" opinions.  

Unfortunately nothing I said was an bias opinion (in all responses on this thread) with facts already mention, i.e. giving personal responses, stating I think this or that.

I find it funny you say this but you do not know the difference between a fact and an opinion, the very reason I I gave you the legitimate definition:

20 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

There is a difference between The Facts and An Opinion. Some people may think, you included, they are quite similar, but actually, a fact and an opinion are very different ideas, for facts can be verified whereas opinions cannot.

• Facts  - are a statement(s) that can be proven true or false.

 

• Opinions  - are expressions of a person's feelings that cannot be proven. Opinions can attempt to rely on some information deem factual, with inclusion of emotion, however it can be used in a basis based on this notation, which can sometimes be a means to deliberately mislead others. Therefore, it is important to be aware of the whatever it is someone or something is professing, even when it comes to the choice of language and conveyance of said proclamation.

 

Example: You said you think JWs adhere to the Democratic Party, that is, an opinion (your opinion, which is unverified). A fact is evidence that says otherwise. Likewise with this former JW of Bethel.

Your spirit is tainted, and you exposed yourself as such, as is your inability to critical think for yourself, and your lacking of legitimate history.

Take Scriptural advice and repent for adhering to a false witness, let alone choosing to dance with the Devil, the resister, only when it benefits you.

If you wish to embarrass yourself even more - be my guest, tainted one. You are only making it worse for yourself and you give @Dmitar a reason to refute you.

 

22 minutes ago, Witness said:

It looks to me that you are quite guilty of applying this yourself. 

Sure... But unlike you, I do not use misleading information and proclaim it as truth.

"An honest witness tells the truth

but a false witness tells lies."  Prov 12:17

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

14 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Can you give me an example where Bible Students rejected people because of the color of their skin? How about Jehovah's Witnesses?

No, i can't. On the other hand, I don’t even need to confirm things that belong to the behaviors of the human species. The behavior of the human species in general confirms that these and many other things burden human relationships.
Also, JW publications and other verbal topics that can be heard at JW meetings confirm that some JW members have trouble overcoming negative feelings towards others. Among other things, these are national and racial and social differences that create divisions within some assemblies.
I come from a region and a time when people of many nationalities of the former Yugoslavia belonged to the same assemblies. I also visited the so-called "Yugoslav" assemblies outside the SFRY (Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia), which had great tensions after the break-up of Yugoslavia in 1991. So I kind of know what I'm talking about.
If this was the case in this part of Europe, why would racial and segregation issues not have a greater impact on the lives of JW assemblies in America? And not only in the "period of segregation" in the years mentioned in the comments, but also today?

Proof? Do some scientific research and you will get official data. Which will be able to be challenged because some will not want to believe in them.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Again and for the last time, I did not post the video because of the racial aspect, but to show JWs that a separate login is available for a select few, providing access the database of Wt. publications.

SM has a special mill that requires water to go uphill so it can run.