A Message to @AnnaNana

[Guest]

Interpretations belong to God. Jehovah doesn't give "visions" today. The Bible is complete. The Bible is its own interpreter. 

 

Jesus is our exemplar. He submitted to those in authority. He did not tell people to leave the Jewish faith, but he did tell them when to leave the city of Jerusalem because attack was imminent.

 

Jesus is head of the congregation. He didn't forsake it. These are the children, his inheritance. He won't forsake them. He will remove those who are hurting others and refuse to change.

 

The Bible is clear. So is creation. Jehovah is a god of organization. Those two witnesses, and His love for His holy name which is on His Name People, make it undeniable that Jehovah will not forsake His organization.

 

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. His way was love. His truth was that Jehovah is a Father who cares. His life exemplified both.

 

It would be neither loving nor fatherly to destroy an entire organization of sheep just because of some bad leaders and bad individuals and bad doctrines. It would be neither loving nor wise nor the pattern we know about Jehovah. It would be satanic. That's what those "visions" and "false inspired utterances" are leading to. They don't match the pattern of healthful teaching in the Bible.

 

Jehovah will not forsake His inheritance. He already wrote His name on it, and He will not remove it again. The ransom has been paid. Jesus precious blood is enough for them. 

 

You are much mistaken, @Witness. Jehovah's Witnesses belong to Jehovah. He is not forsaking them, and neither am I.

 

Jehovah is Loyal.

[Witness]

Audrey - "Interpretations belong to God. Jehovah doesn't give "visions" today. The Bible is complete. The Bible is its own interpreter."

In the Temple body of Christ, we find prophets listed in the foundation - Eph 2:20-22. Paul was a prophet, Peter was a prophet. I would imagine every one of the 12 apostles could have been prophets.   The Bible speaks of other prophets during that time as well.   Do you think prophecy stopped with them?  And if you think prophesy has ceased; no, prophecy has not ceased, otherwise knowledge would cease. 

 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will come to an end. 1 Cor 13:8-10

You said that Jesus sent you, and I'm guessing you mean to bear your message about the organization, that God intends to cleanse it.  How do you know this? If you didn't have a dream, or if you didn't have a vision, how do you know Jesus sent you?

Amos 3:7 - Indeed, the Lord God does nothing without revealing his counsel to his servants the prophets.

How did He reveal this councel to you, that the organization will be cleansed?

"Listen to what I say:
If there is a prophet among you from the Lord,
I make myself known to him in a vision;
I speak with him in a dream." Num 12:6

So by all rights, you should have had a dream or a vision from God, telling you to witness to JWs that the organization will be cleansed.

 "I will speak through the prophets and grant many visions; I will give parables through the prophets." Hos 12:6

Again, the only way you could get the message from God or from Jesus is through a vision or dream!

Unless this is a vision from your own mind.

"This is what the Lord of Armies says: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They are deluding you. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the Lord’s mouth." Jer 23:16

 

"And it will be in the last days, says God,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all people;
then your sons and your daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.
18 I will even pour out my Spirit
on my servants in those days, both men and women
and they will prophesy."  Acts 2:17-18

Rev 11:3 - will grant my two witnesses authority to prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.”

1Thess 5:20-21  - "Don’t despise prophecies, 21 but test all things. Hold on to what is good."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Moise Racette]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

The Wts' leadership spills spiritual blood every day through disfellowshipping.  Every day! Yet, condemnation will also come against them for causing the suicide of individuals, who were left without a loving shepherd. 

If this is the case for this poster, then what is the excuse for this poster spilling spiritual blood as a false prophet? Apostates don't document anyone committing suicide for being confused by apostate ideology, when there is. I believe, Bonnie and Clyde that was mentioned on this forum proves that.

Therefore, if this poster believes the Watchtower has blood in its hands, so does this poster. I will remind this obtuse poster about making such obtuse claims, and those that allow such comments!!

[Witness]

Audrey - "Jesus is head of the congregation. He didn't forsake it. These are the children, his inheritance. He won't forsake them. He will remove those who are hurting others and refuse to change."

When God's people were exiled to Babylon, and when it was time for them to leave, did He remove the wicked from Babylon, or did He remove the repentant ones from Babylon?

We have another Babylon, and we are told to "get out of her MY PEOPLE". Rev 18:4-8

If we can discern the man of lawlessness/ elder body ruling over the temple living stones, which is an abomination standing in the holy place, we must flee.  (Matt 24:15,16)

Anyone who loves God with their whole mind, heart and soul, would not tolerate falsehoods. They would not continue to sit with hypocrites. (Mark 12:33; Ps 26:4). They would not wait around thinking God will remove the wicked from something He never created. They would not still listen to false prophets, and remain under subjection to a counterfeit priesthood.  God's word tells us that WE must act.  We must show where our faith lies; is it with an organization, or is it with God?  

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2048%3A20%2CJeremiah%2049%3A30%2CJeremiah%2050%3A8%2CJeremiah%2050%3A28%2CMatthew%2024%3A15%2CMatthew%2024%3A16%2CRevelation%2018%3A4-8&version=CSB

 

 

 

 

 

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[Moise Racette]

19 minutes ago, Witness said:

Anyone who loves God with their whole mind, heart and soul, would not tolerate falsehoods. They would not continue to sit with hypocrites. (Mark 12:33; Ps 26:4).

Exactly why no one should tolerate this obtuse poster and Pearl Doxsey, unscriptural and unholy claims. 

[Space Merchant]

23 hours ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

I did not personally live through 1914, 1925, 1974 or 1975, but there were three eyewitness accounts of life experiences in and around those times at Bethel that prove to be quite eye-opening.

I would say outside of it too. Regarding 1914, there were alleged other groups who, although some no longer exist, who came to the same conclusion concerning Jesus. One person in particular I mentioned a while back, an aggressive Bible Student. He isn't so keen of JWs or other Bible students, but he'd speak truth about the Bible and events, although some of his research can be conflicting, others of his findings no longer exist and or is difficult to find.

But there were claims that these years mentioned by JWs attest to the world ending. Of course opponents would say otherwise, but when people actually look into the reasoning of those dates, they'll see what is true and what is false. This excludes regular onlookers because to them, they think all religious folks are nuts, but you really can't blame them because of the pastors they had to deal with.

The 1975 one is the interesting one because there was never a statement made that the world would end. some former JWs will rely on speculation to prove the claim, but anything they post about it, no mention of a direct statement whatsoever. There was one EXJW who say the same thing, but he accumulated enough insults and death threats to prevent him from posting anything, but sadly, his own kin who did not agree, got him terminated off of YouTube a while back. 1975 was also the one that caused somewhat of a division among the faith, for some assumed the world would end whereas others did not speculate as they did.

At the end of the day, imperfections allow people to lean on what they thing vs what is said, thus result in problems.

On 2/4/2023 at 6:11 AM, Moise Racette said:

When it comes to people's actions and behavior, then yes. When, it comes to hating people as a Christian, then no! When it comes to hating people under the guidance of scripture, it's anti-christian. That is what these apostates are striving for. For people to hate the Watchtower and its members as though they have the authority to condemn God's people by God's authority and representation. An abomination!!!

A lesson people should learn but refuse to do so.

[Space Merchant]

@Witness Ok, but regarding that 1895 article you cited, why did you say what you said concerning organization, but the article in question was talking about organizations of the world and how their organization differs from that of God's?

Everyone here understands lying is bad as is to use misconceptions as a truth, why does this differ with any article you quote when reading it paints a different story?

I see you are quoting from Bible Gateway again, did you read what the topic say on organization?

Remember, Christians are organized, an organization, be it chosen or not, they follow the same thing, concerning God's will and purpose, then you have the world organizations, who differ greatly from organized Christians who follow or at least make an attempt to follow what s core.

Both @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp and @Moise Racette know that Christians, since the 1st century, were an organized group, with the same goal in mind, as is follow the same command given to them by the Lord, Christ Jesus. This included the follower of Christ himself, Matthias.

[Guest]

Context and harmony with the rest of the Bible shows what Acts 2:14-21 means.

"Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place.  Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.  And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them,  and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak...

"But Peter stood up with the Eleven and spoke to them in a loud voice: “Men of Ju·deʹa and all you inhabitants of Jerusalem, let this be known to you and listen carefully to my words.  These people are, in fact, not drunk, as you suppose, for it is the third hour of the day.  On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel:  “And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams...

"God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.  Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear."

 

The disciples were fulfilling the prophecy from Joel. Jesus poured out holy spirit on them. Peter, moved by holy spirit, told the crowds that it was in fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about the last days of the Jewish system of things, the last days before Jerusalem would be destroyed as the center of true worship.

 

Later, Paul said such types of signs would cease. 

 

"Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease."

 

The context and the rest of scripture shows we should not expect such signs today, namely, people getting visions.

 

When Joel said, "in the last days," which "last days" did he mean?

 

There are many different "last days" in the Bible just like there are many different "appointed times". There are the "last days" of Jerusalem, and there are the "last days" of Babylon, and there are the "last days" before God destroyed the wicked in the days of Noah.

 

The expression "last days" in English has been tossed around as if only referring to two specific events, but the Bible wasn't written in English. "Last days" and "appointed times" and "in the days before the Flood" and so on have to be determined by the context.

 

Peter told us which "last days" Joel meant. The Bible is clear. The "last days" for visions was in the first century.

 

Why do some misunderstand and try to apply Joel's words regarding "visions" to today?

 

The wicked one is trying to mislead, if possible, even the holy ones by means of lying signs and wonders. The Bible is clear that there are no longer "visions". The words "prophecy" and "prophesy" can mean different things based on the context. To prophesy can also mean sharing what the Bible says about the future. It doesn't always mean getting some new vision. When in Revelation it says that the two witnesses prophecy, it is not talking about what is recorded in Joel or Acts. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. Paul said those gifts ceased.

 

The Bible is complete. "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,  so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

 

It is not only people like the women you are following who err in overlooking Paul's words. The also organization says there will be "new scrolls" during the 1,000 year reign, but that is not true. The Bible is complete. Those verses in Revelation 20 say:

 

"And I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. From before him the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.  And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. The dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.  And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds.  And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.  Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire."

 

There will not be "new scrolls" of the Bible according to this verse. The "new scrolls Bible teaching" is anti-Christ doctrine.

 

A "scroll" or "book" can be a book of prophecy or a book of records or a business transaction or the history of a king. The context and the rest of the Bible helps us see what it's talking about here. "Those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds" just means the record of what the people do. "The scroll of life" is what it says, the book of life. It's not about some new prophecy or new teaching. The Bible is already complete. During the 1000 year reign, the kings and priests and Jesus will be directly communicating with those on earth anyway, so there is no need for new scrollbooks of prophecy or guidelines. The Bible is complete.

 

Jehovah's Word says not to add to the Bible. 

 

"I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;  and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things that are written about in this scroll."

 

"The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” 

 

"May the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus be with the holy ones."

[Moise Racette]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Moise Racette know that Christians, since the 1st century, were an organized group, with the same goal in mind, as is follow the same command given to them by the Lord, Christ Jesus. This included the follower of Christ himself, Matthias.

True, but here's the difference: Mattias didn't tarnish nor change Christ's teachings to benefit himself. He obeyed God's word and laws just like the rest of the apostles.

Something the aforementioned posters @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp, and @Witness have failed to do as professed Christians.

[Moise Racette]

@Audrey Kennedy-Tripp posts are now laughable since that poster is prophesying while denying the conclusion of the gentile times. Contradiction after contradiction.

NIV 1 Cor 14:33
33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
 

[Guest]

When we are truly "moved by spirit" to do something today, what does it mean?

 

The fruitage of the spirit are "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,  mildness, self-control". When we are motivated by these things, we know we are moved by holy spirit.

 

Jesus said the holy spirit would help us understand the scriptures.

 

When we pray to Jehovah for holy spirit to understand the scriptures, then Jesus pours out that spirit.

 

If a person was to examine the scriptures for a selfish and harmful reason, like to look smarter than everyone else or to make harmful divisions and distinctions or fancy or something, then it is not holy spirit that is "helping" them. It is another spirit.

 

Jesus said his anointed followers would have the spirit to help them. He commanded his followers to shine the light, not to put it under a basket, but to share it with all in the house.

 

If Jesus allows us to understand something, we are under obligation to share it with others. Not out of a spirit of competition, but out of a spirit of love.

 

Someday, it won't be necessary to "share" these things, because they will be common knowledge.

 

"For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah 

As the waters cover the sea."

 

It is not only the anointed who will "see" Jehovah.

 

Jehovah wants everyone to know this.

 

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/90406-seeing-jehovah/

 

Praise Jehovah for His undeserved kindness and loyal love!

[Moise Racette]

31 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

When we are truly "moved by spirit" to do something today, what does it mean?

 

The fruitage of the spirit

True Christians expose spies within the Org. People that can't have the fruitage of the spirit by their own actions. Therefore, what spirit actually moves such a person? The spirit of darkness.