A Message to @AnnaNana

[Witness]

I’m being restricted from quoting and commenting on quotes, so I’m putting the full reply to SM:  

About charlatans, SM stated, “It seemed like you were saying otherwise when everyone knows the latter to be true.”

AnnaNana said:  “Anyone who claims to be currently serving as a human priest for Jehovah right now in this world is a charlatan, an imitation Christian, a fraud, just like the priests of Baal.”

She said this in connection with her comment that the “144,000” are not active priests yet.  She is talking primarily about the anointed in the Watchtower, as well as the anointed outside of the Watchtower.

Yes, there are “charlatans” out there, but I focus on those “charlatan” governing leaders and the counterfeit priesthood/elder body.  I’m sure she knows that.

 

SM – “Not sure with where you are going with this one because in the 1st century, we seen people like the Apostles, such as Paul choose people, teach and or had given them a role of some kind in the church.”

Okay, most of my answer is to pass along to all JWs.   I hope you can be patient with me.  Consider the history of the priesthood in Israel.  These priests, along with the prophets who came along to remind them of the law, and warn them of their sins…the priests were chosen to serve the people by teaching them the law, by offering sacrifices on behalf of the nation; basically they were a spiritual conduit between God and the people. (Exod 28:29; Num 18:1,5)   They were God’s “witnesses”. (Isa 43:10)   No one could replace a priest without dreadful consequences.  The chosen priesthood is a gift from God. ( Num 18:7) 

Isa 43:10 - “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
    “and My servant whom I have chosen,

1 Pet 2:5 – “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession….”

They are witnesses to the word of God and Christ. And this priesthood is a permanent, perpetual lineage.  (Num 25:10-11) 

The physical temple is gone, the spiritual temple has replaced it. (John 2:19)   A new priesthood takes the place of the old arrangement.  It is to be just as active as the ancient priesthood; and for Anna’s sake again, there are no scriptures that say these priests must wait to serve as a priest until the Kingdom. (1 Pet 2:5,9; Rom 15:16)  That is a Watchtower doctrine only.  This temple built upon chosen people, is the Body of Christ.

 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

“But the temple he had spoken of, was his body”.  John 2:19,22

Regardless of what people believe, the temple has always had a priesthood where not even a king of Israel could take over their duties (2 Chron 26:16-21).  The spiritual Temple built on Christ’s body, does not include those who are not chosen priests.  When Christ came, we slid right into the spiritual concept of “temple”, leaving the physical concept behind.  He was busy setting the foundation on his apostles and the word of all the prophets. (Eph 2:20)  From there, more priests were added to this “structure”, (Eph 2:21) giving their sacrifices of praise to God and the Father, and teaching as all priests are to do – the instructions of the law in Christ. (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 13:15)

 It is a Temple built with “living stones” – people, anointed - just as the early priesthood was anointed with oil. (Num 3:3)  But this “oil” today, is symbolic for Holy Spirit, and is supernaturally poured into the heart, the very soul of the anointed who is chosen as a priest/king. (1 Cor 1:21-22; Rom 5:5; Rev 5:9-10)  Today, usually only they witness this.  I am not saying someone else might be present during the anointing, but by the experiences I’ve heard, it is between God and the individual.  So, how do we know who is the faithful anointed one that Jesus sends in his name? (John 15:16; 13:20)  By their teachings that “LAST”, teachings that would not be replaced continually with another fabricated story.  They are in harmony with scriptures, not including ANY doctrine of men. (John 15:1-4; Matt 7:15-20).  

Since this Temple is more sacred than the earlier temple, (Heb 7:7; 9:23) which had its regulations where no foreigner, no Gentile could enter the sanctuary, (Ezek 44:6-9), then we must realize that no spiritual “foreigner”, no “Gentile” other than an anointed priest of spiritual “Israel,” is allowed to “enter” and act as a priest. (2 Chron 13:9; 1 Cor 3:16-17) The apostles would have chosen anointed ones to serve the people in the capacity of teaching or the gifts of the spirit in Romans 12 and 1 Corinthians 12. Why? Because otherwise, it would have been “Gentiles” entering the spiritual Temple and taking over the duties of chosen priests. We see how severe the punishment was against all that transgressed God’s laws about the early temple and priesthood. And God promises the same will happen to those who transgress the Temple built on the body of His Son.  (2 Thess 2:3,4,8; 1 Cor 3:17)

Num 13:10 - "So you shall appoint Aaron and his sons that they may keep their priesthood, but the layman who comes near shall be put to death."

 The apostles, knowing that they are part of the sacred Temple/ body of Christ, and they taught this to all anointed at the time, would not have transgressed God’s laws in Christ, by allowing anyone to act in the capacity as themselves, as a priest.  It would have been an act of blasphemy against Christ himself, and an act against God’s chosen “possession”.

 The elder body today, has taken the place of the anointed ones.  Actually, they have driven out the priesthood, and stand in their place.  (Ezek 34:21-22; Mark 13:14)   It is like “foreigners” entering the early temple, taking over the duties of the priests, and offering sacrifices instead of the priests; just as Jeroboam set up for his golden calf worship. And the elder counterfeit priests serve the organization, while the Temple and its holy priesthood, is ignored.   

“After this thing Jeroboam did not turn from his evil way, but made priests for the high places again from among all the people. Any who would, he ordained to be priests of the high places. 34 And this thing became sin to the house of Jeroboam, so as to cut it off and to destroy it from the face of the earth.” 2 Kings 13:33-34

If you’ll notice, the anointed are only mentioned as a group that exist as a “JW” along with all JWs; meaning, that they don’t exist as the priests that should practice their priesthood as God expects.  No one has faith in the words of Christ to help them determine by his teachings, whom he has sent bearing “good fruit” that “lasts”.  (Matt 7:15-20; John 15:1-4,16)  Because they cannot physically witness a spiritual anointing, the choice God makes to serve Him, and refuse the guidance in Christ’s words to examine “fruit”/teachings, they decide to choose their own priesthood.  The elder body is expected to receive honor and praise.  The anointed are told to be HUMBLE, QUIET AND OBEDIENT to the counterfeit priesthood that rules over them. (Rom 14:4; 1 Cor 6:2-4; Rev 13:1,5-7,15-17)

-------

SM:  “Not sure with where you are going with this one because in the 1st century, we seen people like the Apostles, such as Paul choose people, teach and or had given them a role of some kind in the church.”

In the case of Matthias, he wasn’t Jesus’ choice to serve as an apostle. They cast lots and the lot fell on an individual that the disciples presumed was God’s choice.    It is clear that Paul was personally chosen by Jesus to be an apostle. (1 Cor 9:1) All the previous apostles were also personally chosen by Jesus, to be the foundation of this spiritual Temple/house. (Eph 2:20-22) Paul even spoke of the foundation. (1 Cor 3:10-11) There was no man or group of men who chose the 12 in the beginning; only Jesus Christ called them, and he called Paul as well.  

 “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.”  John 15:16

Ignatius and Polycarp are not in the scriptures.  I don’t know the circumstance.

SM:  “Further details from the Greek text even suggests that around those days, especially Paul's there was the hierarchical pattern of the Early Christian Church was mainly governed by Apostles and the Elders, etc. with designated functions/roles in an organized fashion, in this case, organization of Christians in purpose and efforts, as the Bible puts it, orderly.”

 

The “hierarchical” pattern that you speak of, is to be viewed spiritually.  The temple has “organization”, yes, it is outlined for us through the various gifts given to the anointed in 1 Cor 12 and Romans 12; Ephesians 4.  It is God’s pattern which cannot be imitated or changed by men, according to a specific branch of Christendom.  Basically, it is set “in stone”, the chief cornerstone, Jesus Christ. (1 Pet 2:6; Rev 21:22-24, 14; Eph 2:20-22)

 

SM – “Can you give an example of how chosen silence their own if they all communicate with each other? Plus that statement is a parallel between you and @Kosonen, who he himself knew he is chosen.”

 

Consider firstly that this is a global organization.  Anointed are scattered throughout the world, under the submission of “Gentile” “shepherds” appointed by men. Picture Jerusalem, after the temple was destroyed by the Roman army.  The stones were thrown down and scattered. Today, not one living stone is left upon a living stone, because they are warned not to bond together and study God’s word under Jesus Christ. (Ezek 34:1-6; Luke 21:6; 1 Pet 2:5; Dan 8:12,23)

Quote:

 In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study. (Gal 1:15-17) Such efforts would cause divisions within the congregation and work against the holy spirit, which promotes peace and unity.—Read Romans 16:17,18  W16/1/22

These words threaten the anointed, and blaspheme the Holy Spirit poured into their heart – as well as slandering the spiritual Temple/dwelling of God. (1 Cor 3:16)  Can you imagine anyone telling you that you cannot have your own Bible study with a group of people that you relate to?  The GB/anointed priests meet together and talk scripture, I am guessing anyway (or, is it all business?)  So, why is it that their “brothers” must not do so? (1 John 4:20)  Truly this is “beating” their fellow slaves in Christ. (Matt 24:48-51)  Jesus taught his disciples to wash each other’s feet, to serve the needs of each other, and to have love for one another. The anointed in charge have no love for anyone but themselves. Obviously, all fleshly needs of the GB are meet, while possibly an anointed one in Africa, along with all JWs in that country struggling to make ends meet, are ignored.  Building Ramapo takes precedence over caring for their anointed brothers as well as JWs as a whole.  

“We honor Christian elders when we show respect for their position and follow their direction.”  W17/3/8

What is their position?

 "Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not. Why? Because, through his holy spirit, Jehovah has appointed the older men to their positions." 

There are possibly 20,000 anointed ones if they are genuine, within an organization of 8 million.  They are both men and women.  That reduces the percentage of possible anointed within the elder body, well under a half of a percent. This leaves a handful of anointed on the elder body.

How does God approve of these men? Through an anointing?  No, by using qualifications applying to the Temple priesthood.

“These older men meet the requirements that are set out in God’s Word, which is a product of God’s spirit.”  

And elder pedophiles are shuffled between congregations.  They certainly don’t meet any requirements in God’s word.  Besides, elders are no longer just “older men”, but those barely hitting 20 years old.  

“ Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!” 

Yes, JWs must open their mouths and swallow down lies about both the fake priesthood AND the priesthood chosen by God. The authority of the GB and elders, must not be challenged.  

These anointed are never called on by the GB for opinions. If they can fly missionaries all across the world, they can certainly call in the anointed to consult with; yet, their letters of concern go unheeded.  If this organization was blessed by God, Holy Spirit would draw all anointed ones together, under Jesus, to serve as a unified priesthood, which would cause TRUTH to soar. (Rom 8:16; John 15:4; 1 John 2:20,27)  Just as the nation of Israel was blessed when they obeyed the law of God by listening to the priests, JWs would be blessed as well; not with failed doctrine, but with true nourishing food from Jesus and his under priests. (John 16:13)  Instead, false teachings rear their ugly head regularly.  This is not a sign of God placing His name on the organization.  It is a preposterous thought.  Why would he neglect His firstborn Son and His dwelling place in the hearts of the anointed, for an organization full of riches and child abuse?  

We have a governing body that has come into power with not only a history of false teachings stacked up on their table, but they continue to create more, and keep serving them up through their elder priesthood.  (Matt 24:48-51) They are not as benign of a group of men as you would like to believe. Teaching falsehoods to the people as a priest is blasphemy. (Mal 2:1-3)

 “For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. 8 But you have turned aside from the way. You have caused many to stumble by your instruction. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi, says the Lord of hosts, 9 and so I make you despised and abased before all the people, inasmuch as you do not keep my ways but show partiality in your instruction.”  Mal 2:7-9

Ignoring the spiritual Temple of “living stones” and choosing instead, to teach and exalt a manmade organization, is idolatry. (Rom 1:25)  Replacing God’s chosen priesthood with men chosen by men, is an abomination.  (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-2)

But it has worked for now.  It has convinced JWs that this organization is their way to paradise.  I mean, SM, do you believe an organization is mankind’s way to paradise? I should hope not. Remember, the Wt baptism includes dedication to an organization.  Jesus never demanded that to be the case.  

“And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation” W 81/11/15 p.21

 They ignore those anointed who actually could teach in truth, if their hearts were inclined to stand up solely, for Christ.  Picture the anointed shoved in a corner, while the elders are placed in the limelight.  (Mal 2:7; Isa 30:19-22)  These men are called shepherds, who love prominence, titles, privileges; while ignoring the needs of the sheep. When Jesus was serving breakfast on the shore of the lake, feeding his disciples, he kept quizzing Peter, “do you love me?”  “FEED MY SHEEP”.

He chose them, to actively feed the people the laws of God in Christ – spiritual, lasting food/fruit, which has always been the job of the priesthood. (Mal 2:7; Matt 7:15-20)  But the elder “shepherds” as a whole, are too busy feeding their pompous ego, their lust for power and privilege status, while disregarding God’s spiritual Temple and dwelling of Holy Spirit.  The physical organization is an idol that rivals God, and “makes war against the saints”, chosen sanctuary Temple of God. (Rev 13:1,2,5-7,4)

2 Thess 2:1-12 -  Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 1914

 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

There is only one earthly organization that houses the genuine anointed, and there is only one organization that has a massive elder body that has taken the place/”sits” in the Temple of God, as counterfeit priests.   

 

“Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior.”

What wicked persuasion!   This argument is to keep the anointed in check and let the “anointed” GB rule as false prophets/ false teachers that they are.  How on earth do they, who readily acknowledge that they are NOT INSPIRED BY HOLY SPIRIT, know what wisdom from Holy Spirit God has put into the OTHER hearts of the anointed?  This admittance of not having Holy Spirit, shows up their lies as coming from another spirit.  (2 Cor 11:3-5,13-15,20; 1 Tim 4:1)

Were the anointed apostles not given Holy Spirit to understand the mysteries of God?  Were they not also prophets?  (1 Cor 4:1; Eph 2:20-22)  Uninspired men would have no knowledge of what inspiration by Holy Spirit is all about.  

Implying that the anointed have nothing special to offer, guarantees that the “Gentile” elder body hold their secure power over ‘worthless’ anointed ones. Dan 11:36 

 

Zech 2:6-13; Rev 18:4-8

 

 

[Moise Racette]

12 minutes ago, Witness said:

She said this in connection with her comment that the “144,000” are not active priests yet.  She is talking primarily about the anointed in the Watchtower, as well as the anointed outside of the Watchtower.

How does either of these two charlatan posters know who God has appointed as anointed?

[Guest]

"Hate what is bad, love what is good." I love how you hate what is bad, @Witness!☺️

 

Keep being patient, Dear @Witness. The "Gentile Times", as people like to call them, haven't ended yet. Jesus has had to wait, and so do we. When Jesus takes the throne, then all the false shepherds will be removed. It's soon. When it's Jesus' time, the organization will be cleansed, and then the 144,000 will all go home together. It's not time for Jesus' bride to rule as kings and serve as priests yet. We are ministers and ambassadors of the covenant and sharing the sacred secret but it is not time for any follower of Christ to be a king or a priest. We must be obedient.

 

The "temple of God" referenced in the verse about the lawless one is not the spiritual temple, just like talking about the tabernacle or the temple in Moses day was not the spiritual temple. The context shows which temple the writer was talking about. Since we are a spiritual nation, it's not possible for a man or group of men to physically "sit" in us.

 

The "temple of God" that the lawless one sits in is a physical temple, because they are physical men. They don't understand the other things. It's a physical temple, which is another word for "a place where people worship."

 

What do you think the ruler of this world is going to attack when the UN gets power? He is a physical-minded ruler. He is going to attack the physical things. Bethel. Kingdom Halls. Properties.

 

Jesus knows where all the sheep are. The angels of the congregations know where all the sheep are. The sheep are marked for survival. The rest, not so much.

 

"Leave behind even your outer garment."

 

Jehovah always tells the finale from the beginning. It's been in the Book for years.

 

Praise Jehovah for his undeserved kindness and mercy. 

[Moise Racette]

20 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

"Hate what is bad, love what is good." I love how you hate what is bad, @Witness!

Yes! Hate people, just like Jesus taught, Oh! Wait, that's an apostate ideology to be unchristian. 😂

[Guest]

"You yourself are saying it."

 

🌷

Jehovah is paying attention. He is cleaning His Name people.

"At that time those who fear Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. 

And a book of remembrance was written before him for those fearing Jehovah and for those meditating on his name. 

“And they will be mine,” says Jehovah of armies, “in the day when I produce a special property. I will show them compassion, just as a man shows compassion to his son who serves him.  

And you will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving him."

 

Jehovah knows those who belong to Him, and He will protect those ones during the tribulation ahead.

 

"Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob as his helper, 

Whose hope is in Jehovah his God, 

The Maker of heaven and earth, 

Of the sea, and of all that is in them, 

The One who always remains faithful,

The One securing justice for those defrauded, 

The One giving bread to the hungry.  

Jehovah is releasing the prisoners. 

Jehovah is opening the eyes of the blind; 

Jehovah is raising up those bowed down; 

Jehovah loves the righteous.  

Jehovah is protecting the foreign residents; 

He sustains the fatherless child and the widow, 

But he thwarts the plans of the wicked.  

Jehovah will be King forever, 

Your God, O Zion, for generation after generation.  

Praise Jah!"

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I’m being restricted from quoting and commenting on quotes, so I’m putting the full reply to SM:  

About charlatans, SM stated, “It seemed like you were saying otherwise when everyone knows the latter to be true.”

AnnaNana said:  “Anyone who claims to be currently serving as a human priest for Jehovah right now in this world is a charlatan, an imitation Christian, a fraud, just like the priests of Baal.”

I seen Anna's comment, but what you said deems otherwise concerning what a charlatan is even in context. This was directed to this statement [Witness - You're saying that anyone who claims to serve as a priest right now is a charlatan.]

Charlatans are known by what fruit they bear that isn't core, be it close or in attempt.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

SM – “Not sure with where you are going with this one because in the 1st century, we seen people like the Apostles, such as Paul choose people, teach and or had given them a role of some kind in the church.”

Okay, most of my answer is to pass along to all JWs.   I hope you can be patient with me.  Consider the history of the priesthood in Israel.  These priests, along with the prophets who came along to remind them of the law, and warn them of their sins…the priests were chosen to serve the people by teaching them the law, by offering sacrifices on behalf of the nation; basically they were a spiritual conduit between God and the people. (Exod 28:29; Num 18:1,5)   They were God’s “witnesses”. (Isa 43:10)   No one could replace a priest without dreadful consequences.  The chosen priesthood is a gift from God. ( Num 18:7) 

this is beyond Jehovah's Witnesses, it is already common knowledge of how the church processes are, how it operated, as is the choosing of people regarding roles, be it they are among the chosen or not. We cannot go about to change what God puts in place concerning order. This isn't the first time we had this discussion. charlatans, can and will overwrite such unfortunate.

That is also why the point was made, when in the Greek text we see how people have such roles, to push that point further, this was the case in ancient Israel. Those verses you mentioned, if one draws context, they'll see this too.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

If you’ll notice, the anointed are only mentioned as a group that exist as a “JW” along with all JWs; meaning, that they don’t exist as the priests that should practice their priesthood as God expects.  No one has faith in the words of Christ to help them determine by his teachings, whom he has sent bearing “good fruit” that “lasts”.  (Matt 7:15-20; John 15:1-4,16)  Because they cannot physically witness a spiritual anointing, the choice God makes to serve Him, and refuse the guidance in Christ’s words to examine “fruit”/teachings, they decide to choose their own priesthood.  The elder body is expected to receive honor and praise.  The anointed are told to be HUMBLE, QUIET AND OBEDIENT to the counterfeit priesthood that rules over them. (Rom 14:4; 1 Cor 6:2-4; Rev 13:1,5-7,15-17)

Jehovah's Witnesses as is anyone who knows about the Firstfruits, recognize those chosen existed before that of pastor Russell himself, beyond most. There is a reason why they speak of Pentecost 33 A.D. with seriousness, even vocally at times within their own community. To a degree they do believe people prior when Bible Students or JWs didn't exist, were among the chosen, but in truth, God picks such persons of the nation. They also know there is but a few left.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

SM:  “Not sure with where you are going with this one because in the 1st century, we seen people like the Apostles, such as Paul choose people, teach and or had given them a role of some kind in the church.”

In the case of Matthias, he wasn’t Jesus’ choice to serve as an apostle. They cast lots and the lot fell on an individual that the disciples presumed was God’s choice.    It is clear that Paul was personally chosen by Jesus to be an apostle. (1 Cor 9:1) All the previous apostles were also personally chosen by Jesus, to be the foundation of this spiritual Temple/house. (Eph 2:20-22) Paul even spoke of the foundation. (1 Cor 3:10-11) There was no man or group of men who chose the 12 in the beginning; only Jesus Christ called them, and he called Paul as well.  

So you are discrediting Matthias, who is a known Firstfruit?

True Christians recognize that Matthias had been a follower of the Christ throughout, the first 3 in a half years of his ministry, he knew who Jesus is and what he had done in that time span. The 70 disciples around that time, he was most likely among them, sent by the Christ to preach the gospel. We no one can forget of ow he was selected by the very people Jesus entrusted the Church too.

His history is common knowledge, we should not forget or discredit one of the chosen. Like i said, people take Pentecost 33 A.D. seriously, as is the commission command given.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

“You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.”  John 15:16

Ignatius and Polycarp are not in the scriptures.  I don’t know the circumstance.

It would be wise to look into the students of the apostles. there is no doubt that they were similar to that of Timothy, Titus, Clement, etc. In their time, they defended the core teachings even in the face of death and perhaps took up more serious opposition than those of old, not from leader of the Jews, but those with an ideology that is outlandish to the true church. they may not be chosen, but they are 100% Christians, stones of the spiritual house, to ignore brothers of old is highly questionable on your part, mainly Polycarp, for his actions, you'd probably be reading from a different bible today, let alone believing something entirely different if he was snuffed out early.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

The “hierarchical” pattern that you speak of, is to be viewed spiritually.  The temple has “organization”, yes, it is outlined for us through the various gifts given to the anointed in 1 Cor 12 and Romans 12; Ephesians 4.  It is God’s pattern which cannot be imitated or changed by men, according to a specific branch of Christendom.  Basically, it is set “in stone”, the chief cornerstone, Jesus Christ. (1 Pet 2:6; Rev 21:22-24, 14; Eph 2:20-22)

You make the claim that what was explained isn't spiritual or biblical based, when it indeed was. The hierarchical structure was of God, professed by  some, even Paul. to say otherwise, you'd have to prove it, but that is neigh impossible, mainly due to the fact Jesus entrusted the church to the apostles.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

SM – “Can you give an example of how chosen silence their own if they all communicate with each other? Plus that statement is a parallel between you and @Kosonen, who he himself knew he is chosen.”

 

Consider firstly that this is a global organization.  Anointed are scattered throughout the world, under the submission of “Gentile” “shepherds” appointed by men. Picture Jerusalem, after the temple was destroyed by the Roman army.  The stones were thrown down and scattered. Today, not one living stone is left upon a living stone, because they are warned not to bond together and study God’s word under Jesus Christ. (Ezek 34:1-6; Luke 21:6; 1 Pet 2:5; Dan 8:12,23)

@Kosonen communicated with you before. This person was looking for chosen ones within and outside of the JW faith.

What is confusing is prior you didn't see Christians, chosen and the non chosen as not an organized people.... But now, you do? Elaborate.

 

As for the rest, you took all of those articles out of context... Again. If anyone were to read them vs what you said, they'll see the context of the article itself. What you state here would yield no type of sense if the article in question says something different. Now only this was recently done here with an 1895 article, you tried this before.

It would be wise to read first rather than hold on to a quote whereas a paragraph before or after said quote says otherwise. In example, the last quote you did, you were not aware of the wholly organizations being the Boy's Brigade or the APA that the pastor/watchtower was talking about.

I see you mentioned child abuse again, which is totally unrelated to what is being discussed here, and you are quoting this to a person who actually fights child abuse for a very long time now, vocal about it here. As I say time and time again, child abuse is everywhere, no one is immune to it, the real way to combat it is via education and solutions, the very ones even some EXJW called for but your people shut it down. Child abuse is contagious to the point even EXJW and those who support them were found out to abuse kids themselves while at the same time going after JWs for the same issue, one in particular who possibly went to overseas to deal with more than just women there (Srecko was silent when I asked him that), another defended an abuser because of her appearance, another who is affiliated with an man who nearly became an abuser on YouTube, but was reinstated on the platform, the list goes on.

To even mention this here is technically weaponizing abuse, something I was critical about to John Butler about. Going further, no EXJW even truly cares about aiding children because for years now they never even applied what CSA prevention states, nor do they come to a grounded discussion about the issue, luckily, there are some who actually speak with JWs on a neutral ground about how to help, and solutions were brought for the betterment of a community. It be best to keep it in it's own thread because if that continues, I will start attesting to things I found out about EXJWs within the 300 days I was out.

Like I said, this is something I take seriously, never sling such around loosely like that.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Yes, JWs must open their mouths and swallow down lies about both the fake priesthood AND the priesthood chosen by God. The authority of the GB and elders, must not be challenged.  

You have to be specific on lies. The whole 11914, 925, 1975 and UN status, etc. has been debunked, even when put in challenge. I remember asking I believe Srecko to prove the JWFacts claim of JWs saying the world will be destroyed in 1975, nothing came up. Likewise with 1914, or 1925 granted the book can be read for context. As for the UN, no charter or registration signature exist. Because of these notions by disgruntled EXJWs, being used as pawns by Trinitarians, pulled an Deus Ex on JWs, so people would believe the notions until they research it. this brings me back to the middle aged man who made a video about 1975 only to be terminated by force by EXJWs, as is with the Warwick situation back in 2017, an abuse survivor and Ex-bible Student stopped the meet up at the park. Some even became finical pieces for some known EXJWs such as Gonzalez. Therefore, you have a situation: JWs, reformed EXJWs vs disgruntled JWS. The base is dying out, so that is why they are chancing Washington DC, not realizing they are the pawns.

In all honesty, anyone can read up on this things. @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp has her points, some religious leaders tend to be out of touch, but surely in such things like this, you can be justified as an enemy by any onlooker who reads for context. It also relates to inspired prophets vs non inspired prophets too, which can determine false prophets.

Speaking of Trinitarians, a lot of your people gave in to Francis Chen, even when given the warning. Pastor Chen was supporting both the Pope who is the front for the UN's conquest for peace concerning religion.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

There is only one earthly organization that houses the genuine anointed, and there is only one organization that has a massive elder body that has taken the place/”sits” in the Temple of God, as counterfeit priests.   

So which is it? God has an organization now, or not? statements made here, differ from before.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

How on earth do they, who readily acknowledge that they are NOT INSPIRED BY HOLY SPIRIT, know what wisdom from Holy Spirit God has put into the OTHER hearts of the anointed?  This admittance of not having Holy Spirit, shows up their lies as coming from another spirit. 

They're regulars. Regular Christians, even chosen, are non inspired prophets who can be guided by the holy spirit when they ask for it. No one on earth is an inspired prophet with miraculous gifts of the spirit. Plus, we have the Holy Good Book itself, completed.

You have to prove the lies if they deviated from core teachings. So far when it is JWs and reformed JWs vs disgruntled EXJWs, the first group is correct.

That being said, please read those articles in full. If you quote them and give your own commentary, it can easily be countered when someone finds and reads the articles themselves online somewhere.

Like I said, anyone is free to agree or disagree with Jehovah's Witnesses, but it is unwise to use misinformation and falsehood to prove a case. After all these years, people have found counters, as is the truth in context.

 

[Space Merchant]

@Moise Racette People should always read for context no matter what. this is why when it comes to these articles, no one should simply rely on a quote when the article says otherwise. This is a common problem many people succumb to, mainly when it is tabloids, or big situation, like the proxy war in Ukraine or a China Balloon hovering around Montana.

The articles cited, I read a few, tends to go in a different path than what is being said here.

Misinformation can go a long way often times, creates problems and cause others to believe the lie. The first casualty of War is always the Truth.

Also to @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp's credit, we have to hate what is bad, we always should not be weaponizing what is bad because not only to causes problems, evidently it draws in problematic people into various communities, and faith groups.

[Moise Racette]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

People should always read for context no matter what. this is why when it comes to these articles, no one should simply rely on a quote when the article says otherwise. This is a common problem many people succumb to, mainly when it is tabloids, or big situation, like the proxy war in Ukraine or a China Balloon hovering around Montana.

The articles cited, I read a few, tends to go in a different path than what is being said here.

Misinformation can go a long way often times, creates problems and cause others to believe the lie. The first casualty of War is always the Truth.

Very true, especially when old English is expressed. Pastor Russell observations are difficult to understand if people don't tie in all his articles into a proper perspective. 

[Moise Racette]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Also to @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp's credit, we have to hate what is bad

When it comes to people's actions and behavior, then yes. When, it comes to hating people as a Christian, then no! When it comes to hating people under the guidance of scripture, it's anti-christian. That is what these apostates are striving for. For people to hate the Watchtower and its members as though they have the authority to condemn God's people by God's authority and representation. An abomination!!!

[Guest]

I did not personally live through 1914, 1925, 1974 or 1975, but there were three eyewitness accounts of life experiences in and around those times at Bethel that prove to be quite eye-opening.

 

I do not agree with all the conclusions or life philosophies or doctrines of these authors, and I recommend skipping or skimming certain parts that may offend. It is best not to linger on negative material, but sometimes we have to be aware of the ugly truth in order to hate what is bad and turn away from it. (If you know there is a wolf in sheeps clothing then you can stay away from it.)

 

A.H. Macmillan, "Faith On the March"

Ray Franz, "Crisis of Conscience"

Keith Casarona, "New Boy"

 

Macmillan talks about some of the details of issues surrounding time period at Bethel after Russell died and some of the issues going on with the change of leadership. He lived through that time at Bethel.

 

Franz goes into more detail and provides copies of documentation, various letters to and from the branch, quotes from talks given, photos of letters to and from the governing body, personal files, from his time on the governing body and before and after.

 

Casarona gives a heart-rending perspective on how the day-to-day operation at Bethel crushes little sheep and destroys their faith, as well as his family's experience during those decades. 

 

(All three publications are available free online. Macmillan's book is on archive. org, Franz's book is on friendsofrayfranz .org, and Casarona's book is available chapter by chapter posted on Reddit.)

 

Again, I do not necessarily agree with the conclusions of these authors or recommend certain styles of speech or conduct as may be discussed within these books, however the three witnesses together give powerful evidence of the lack of Jehovah's holy spirit on certain doctrines, practices, or teachings within the organization.

 

It is undeniable that there is much wonderful, beautiful fruitage from the organization. But it is also undeniable that there is much bad, horrible, rotten fruitage too. Jesus said this would be so. There is wheat, and there are weeds. Recognizing these things gives us faith that we are near the time recorded in the Bible for the wickedness to be removed from the organization:

 

"When the wicked sprout like weeds 

And all the wrongdoers flourish, 

It is that they may be annihilated forever."

 

Praise Jehovah.

[Moise Racette]

28 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

I did not personally live through 1914, 1925, 1974 or 1975, but there were three eyewitness accounts of life experiences in and around those times at Bethel that prove to be quite eye-opening.

I'm sure they were eye-opening to gullible people. I don't give credence to any Bethel member since there was a lot of cleansing at the house, and a good portion of them turned out not just to be apostates, but fools. There are one or two here that follow that pattern.

But, if you weren't around 1974 or 1975, then there's nothing this poster could have personally experienced while some of us did.

I still have connections to 1 old bible student.

35 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

Franz goes into more detail and provides copies of documentation, various letters to and from the branch, quotes from talks given, photos of letters to and from the governing body, personal files, from his time on the governing body and before and after.

Your reference to old apostate news is nothing new. If it's just hitting this poster's interest, it's too late. I personally knew Bro Raymond Franz and his uncle Fred. It grieves me to know Ray lost his soul because he listened to apostate nonsense with chronology. The same abomination that is seen here.

43 minutes ago, Audrey Kennedy-Tripp said:

It is undeniable that there is much wonderful, beautiful fruitage from the organization. But it is also undeniable that there is much bad, horrible, rotten fruitage too. Jesus said this would be so.

If this poster understands the nature of imperfection humanity has, which Jesus disciples were part of that imperfection, then this poster should understand, judgment is not an option since no one controls free will, or is this poster claiming to be perfect just like Jesus?

[Guest]

I do not agree with all of Ray's conclusions and ideas, just like I do not agree with all of Keith's conclusions and ideas or Macmillan's. I am just presenting them as evidence regarding the 1914, 1925, 1974, 1975 issues.

 

A.H. Macmillan never left the organization. He was arrested with Rutherford and also in prison during that time. He gives eyewitness accounts of that time period.

 

Ray Franz's book shares photographs of actual correspondence from men who never left the organization, men like Albert Schroeder, Lyman Swingle, Fred Franz, Nathan Knorr, and Theodore Jaracz.

 

Keith and his parents lived through some of those time periods and he describes how some who stayed in the organization and who didn't felt about those time periods.

 

As regards the coming and going of set dates when the Kingdom was predicted by the Bible Students and later Jehovah's Witnesses to "come", it all boils down to the same sin: disregarding Jesus' clear direction that no man would know the day or hour the Kingdom was to begin. Therefore those men who were trying to predict it opened themselves to "inspired utterances" that were not holy, and they became mouthpieces for the wicked one, seeds of the Devil.

 

It doesn't mean they were bad men or trying to mislead anybody. But they were used to spread an unholy teaching.

 

They were also used to spread truths. To the degree they understood and embraced truth, they could share truth. But to the degree they were sullied by false teaching, they spread that false teaching.

 

A person with COVID might walk around passing out flowers, but it's not just flowers he's passing out.

 

Jesus foretold the apostasy. He also foretold the solution. We will see Jesus fix things and clean the congregation.

 

Praise Jehovah.