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1 hour ago, AnnaNana said:

(Just out of curiosity, Moise, are you currently "serving" with the title of "elder"?)

Within God's true Org. There are many gifts afforded by God's Holy Spirit. This curiosity seems to equate that of @Space Merchant curiosity.

Why is everyone all of a sudden so curious, when my curiosity is none?

Rom. 12:6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, pin proportion to our faith;
Rom. 12:7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
Rom. 12:8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads,6 with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

 

1Cor. 12:4 ¶ Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;

1Pet. 4:10 As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace:

 

2Tim. 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved,3 a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

 

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Hello AnnaNana,  I can't seem to send you a private message,  so I'll place it here:   Hello AnnaNana, again I appreciate the scriptures that point to God's people as recipients of His

AnnaNana/Audrey said - "The context shows which temple the writer was talking about. Since we are a spiritual nation, it's not possible for a man or group of men to physically "sit" in us." Since

Audrey - "Interpretations belong to God. Jehovah doesn't give "visions" today. The Bible is complete. The Bible is its own interpreter." In the Temple body of Christ, we find prophets listed in t

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I value your gifts, the ones I can observe on here. You are zealous. You have endurance. You are engaging.

 

We all have potential to be God's children. The ransom is big enough.

 

(Just out of curiosity, Moise, are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses? I notice you never quote from the New World Translation. It is a superior translation, although I do also enjoy reading the J.B. Phillips translation and the Kingdom Interlinear and the Good News Bible and several others. The ASL NWT is great, and it is also fun reading in the pidgin languages. What translation do you keep quoting from ? I notice you never use the New World Translation, and it surprises me considering your many claims of loyalty to the organization. Just wondering.)

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27 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

I value your gifts, the ones I can observe on here. You are zealous. You have endurance. You are engaging.

When one obeys God's command, then God's reward is great. We all have the ability to be God's children, which is God's greatest love to mankind. However, one cannot be a child of God from darkness.

30 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

(Just out of curiosity, Moise, are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses? I notice you never quote from the New World Translation.

There is a saying about curiosity. I rarely use the NWT, since I have no willingness to abuse nor use God's name in vain. I find using God's name in arguments or debates, defiles God's sovereignty. A problem that even witnesses here have a problem with.

However, I agree the NWT is an excellent translation, even though there are witnesses here that believe the interlinear is not. They rather use outside sources, that have not kept up with new translation sources.

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On 1/30/2023 at 2:11 PM, AnnaNana said:

If Jehovah can heal the blind and the deaf and the lame, don't you think He can heal the organization?

Hi Anna, you say God can do anything; of course we know He can, and we look forward to what He has planned for us in the Kingdom.  But, He also says His word cannot be altered, (Deut 4:2; Prov 30:5-6; John 10:35), and the entire book of the Bible ends by saying,
 
  "I warn everyone who hears the word of the prophecy of the scroll: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll"  Rev 22:18-19
 
I hope you consider what you're proposing, because it reminds me a bit of Jesus' time in the wilderness, where Satan told him,  "If you are the Son of God", he said, "throw yourself down from here. For it is written: he will command his angels concerning you to guard your carefully they will lift you up in their hands so that you will not strike your foot against a stone." Luke 4:9-11
 
Claiming that God will heal the organization if He wants to, an organization built on the earth where Satan rules, and obviously influenced by the wickedness of Satan, requires scriptures that prove that this will happen.  Don't you think so?  You may not look at it this way, but it's as if you are taunting God to clean the organization, just as Satan taunted Jesus in the wilderness. And do you really expect a manmade organization to ever remain clean in God's eyes during this system under Satan's influence? Because we can't escape greed and dominance over others until the Kingdom arrives. So history will repeat itself after your idea of the organization being cleansed. (Job 14:4)
 
We already know that God can heal the blind, deaf and the lame, because scripture tells us these things. And this happens when people reach out to Him in repentance. But nowhere does it says that He will heal an organization built on money, investments, stocks, and real estate transactions.  His interest is the heart of all mankind, and scripture supports this.(1 Cor 4:5) Just type in "hearts" in biblegateway.com  and see how many scriptures appear.   None will appear for the word, "organization". God's focus is on people; it is people who put their focus on an organization.
 
  By putting the Wt. above His spiritual Temple in importance, it is as if you are treating the organization AS a temple, where His Spirit supposedly dwells.  Why call it "Jehovah's organization" if His Spirit does not reside within it, right?
God's word tells us this isn't so:
 
Acts 17:24,25,29 - "The God who made the world and all things in it, He, being Lord of heaven and earth, doesn't dwell in temples made with hands."
 
Has the organization been made with hands?
 
"He isn't served by men's hands as though He needed anything, seeing He himself gives to all life and breath and all things."
 
Is "Jehovah's organization" served by men's hands, for "Jehovah's" sake? 
Or rather, for men's sake?
 
"Since, then, we are God’s offspring, we shouldn’t think that the divine nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image fashioned by human art and imagination."
 
You are putting the divine nature of God into what men have built, by declaring the Wt is His organization. Actually, this is what the governing body has done. They claim that it is spirit directed- spirit breathed, which was prophesied to occur in the last days. (Rev 13:14-17). Yes, a false prophet breathes spirit into an organization/ Beast.  Any who do not respect that image as spirit directed, is spiritually killed - disfellowshipped.  Rev 13:15
 
This is a quote from the Watchtower 1990 11/1 p.26 - 
 
"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry - be it worshipful gestures towards an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or to an organization"
 
Of course, Watchtower does not practice truth when they speak it, and in this case, submits all JW's to idolatry.  Is that really what you want for God's people, who have come to believe today, that the only way to salvation is through the organization?  Isn't it only Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and life, which is what the apostles taught?  (John 14:6;Acts 4:12) Do you feel comfortable removing the only avenue of salvation that God has given us, and whom we must listen to,  and applying it to wood and stone?  (Isa 40:18-21)
 
Only a remnant, of the last anointed remnant, come out of the organization; a remnant that listens to the teachings of the Bible, and not to the wiles of men. (Rev 12:17; 1 Cor 15:23-24) Please think about this, Anna.  Read who it is that must flee in Revelation 18:4-8. You're right that Revelation concerns God's holy people, but you don't realize it is completely about God's holy people, not the United Nations, or the religions of the world. They do not claim that they are spirit inspired. (Rev 13:15) No false prophet (Rev 13:11-12) in Christendom has breathed spirit into the United Nations.  The anointed and all JWs, must come out of the false religion they are in presently.  It is another Babylon that God's saints are held captive in.  It is a repeat of what happened to God's people for their sins and idolatry in ancient Israel, but today it is on the spiritual level of grotesque deceit.  (Col 2:8; Rev 13:10; Matt 24:24,25; 1 Tim 4:1)
 
On 1/30/2023 at 2:11 PM, AnnaNana said:

Jesus didn't come to save perfect priesthoods. He came to save sinners. "Of these I am foremost."

Who said that the priesthood was perfect? You've presented a straw man argument!  Are you avoiding admitting that the priesthood is active, so instead you say, "Jesus didn't come to save perfect priesthoods"?
Anna, when we come out of the organization, we are all sinners after listening to and supporting false teachings and practicing idolatry to the organization. (Rev 3:15-20)  The messenger of the covenant comes to refine God's priesthood.  (Mal 3:1-4; Matt 17:11;1Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16)
 
I know I am being very strong with you, but it means our life.  And unlike the governing body who are most sure that they will reign in the heavens before Jesus make that decision at his return, (1 Cor 4:8) we wait for the Master to grant us our reward without blowing our horn, that we have already received it.  (Matt 25:19-30)
 
I think I read that you had mentioned Wormwood and some scriptures pertaining to it. Deut. Chapter 29 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2029&version=CSB
 Yes, the prophecy in Revelation 8:10-11 applies to the false prophets/ teachers/ GB, fallen anointed ones.
 The holy ones are compared to stars. (Gen 22:17; Dan 12:3; Phil 2:17)
 Wormwood, a fallen anointed star, is the beast/false prophet of Revelation 13:11; 19:20, that works signs and wonders on behalf of the organization, the Beast of Rev 13:1,2. This false prophet poisons the waters of truth by teaching doctrines of men.
The scriptures tell us what will happen to this " Jezebel" who makes the servants of Christ "eat meat sacrificed to idols". ( Rev 2:20) Just as the false prophet Jezebel was thrown out the window to her death, the Harlot/false prophet will be disfellowshipped - spiritually "killed" by the elder body/ organization, and thrown out. (Rev 13:15) Her sins will be found so great that not even the elder body will tolerate her any longer.  
 
In Revelation, there are various descriptions that imply the actions and personalities of the two beasts in Revelation, as the governing leaders and the organization.  (Rev 16:13-16)
 
 The elder body has grown in power over the years, and at the branch levels, it is somewhat independent.  There is an underlying current of disappointment with the GB. Easily, the elder body will remove the Harlot, but although God will put it in their hearts, it is not His plan to cleanse the organization, since scriptures tell us that there is only one hour, one symbolic hour for the organization to reign after that, before Jesus returns and destroys this man of lawlessness/Beast that has trampled down his anointed living stones of God's Temple.(2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)  It will be destroyed by the breath of his mouth, the word of God.  (Jer 23:29;  2 Thess 2:7-12)
Rev 17:12-18)
 
So the very organization that you are supporting, is the very organization that will be destroyed.  Loyalty to what men have built, defies pure loyalty that should be shown only to God and the Son.  We can't praise and show loyalty to the Father, and praise and show loyalty to an organization built by men, at the same time.  ( Matt 6:24; 22:37-40) 
 
1 Cor 3:11, 16-17 - "For no one can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Do you not know that you are a sanctuary of God and that the spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the sanctuary of God, God will destroy him, for the sanctuary of God is holy and that is what you are."
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Jehovah is not going to burn down the whole earth. He is going to evict those who hurt others and won't change.

 

Jehovah is not going to burn down his family arrangement, the congregation, the organization. He is going to evict those who hurt others and won't change.

 

"He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."

 

The lawless ones are standing in the organization. The scripture says Jesus will get rid of the lawless ones, not the organization.

 

"Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time.  True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way.  Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence."

 

Jesus' messages to the congregations in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 are clear. There are some individuals in the congregations who are doing fine. Others individuals need correction. Some individuals will be removed. Jesus does not say that he is going to destroy the organization. He says he is going to clean it.

 

Jehovah is a God of Love. He doesn't make the truth difficult so only some fancy priesthood can understand it. He makes it so lowly ones can understand it. Jehovah is not some horrible destructive person. That's what the Devil is. 

 

Why do you think He sent His Son? To Save What Was Lost. These sheep in the organization, most of them don't know their right hand from their left, just like in Ninevah. Remember how Jehovah felt when Jonah wanted Ninevah to be destroyed?

 

Why do you want the organization to be destroyed? True kings and priests protect the flock and aid the people, building them up and making atonement for them. We are not kings and priests yet. Jesus did not take any of us to heaven yet. But we must have hearts that love, courage to protect and defend, and mercy and compassion.

 

If Jesus is likened to a spiritual father who takes the place of Adam, then what is his bride to be likened to? What kind of mother would want to destroy her offspring? That is a detestable thing!

 

Jerusalem above is our mother, and we strive to imitate her. She is God's glory. Jehovah has been willing to go through the pain of watching all this suffering, watching the suffering of his Son, watching us, the whole world, for what? So He could destroy? No! So He could save.

 

You are much mistaken, Witness. Jehovah is Love. He made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. These children in the organization belong to Jesus. The true members of the bride view the children as their own. There is NO WAY any true "mother" would want them dead. (Remember the wisdom of Solomon, "cut the baby in two"...who was the real mother?)

 

You are much mistaken.

 

Jehovah Will Save His Name People. They will be cleansed, but He will not forsake His Loyal Ones. He Is Jehovah. Jehovah Will Be Glorified. He is the Father. Praise Jehovah!

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What is a Kingdom?

 

We say a kingdom is a type of government. But what is God's Kingdom? It's not like any human government.

 

In God's Kingdom, the word "Kingdom" can be replaced by the word "Family". The word for Jehovah as "King" can be replaced by the word "Father". 

 

In the pictures in the publications, the kings in the kingdom are all pictured sitting around far far away on thrones, and granted, there is a vision of that in Revelation. But that vision is not literal. It's showing an aspect of the kingdom. But what is the reality?

 

Parents don't sit around on a fancy chair all day. Jehovah doesn't sit around all day. He Works. Jesus said, "My Father keeps working until now." 

 

The kings and priests, the 144,000, are not to be like the "lords" of the nations, the ones who want to be "Benefactors." Jesus said we must be low. We must minister to others.

 

If we are low, we don't go around saying "they are trampling on me, the temple of Jehovah". Jesus didn't say that. If we are low, we just keep carrying on and working.

 

A mother gets up in the middle of the night to nurse and care for her child. She doesn't expect that child to kowtow to her and serve her. She works. The kings and priests in the Kingdom will be more like that mother and not like a worldly-style-sitting-up-high-looking-down-at-everybody "kingdom". 

 

Revelation shows that after Armageddon the kingdom comes down out of heaven to the earth. Ezekiel says the city on earth is called "Jehovah Himself Will Be There." Priests work among the people. Jehovah is not partial. The "kings" are only called kings because they are like older brothers, helping out the younger kids because that's what older brothers should do. They are called "kings" because they have an assignment and responsibility. Not because they are all concerned about some regal status, and not to lord it over anybody. The kings throw down their crowns because they recognize Jehovah is the Father.

 

Jehovah's Kingdom is not anything like Satan's kingdoms. Jehovah's Kingdom doesn't cause separations. It removes separations.

 

The anointed and the other sheep and the angels and Jesus and Jehovah are all going to interact in a close way. There will be no more divisions. Jehovah is removing the divisions. He is The Father.

 

We are a family.

 

Praise Jehovah.

 

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/90406-seeing-jehovah/

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4 hours ago, Witness said:

Claiming that God will heal the organization if He wants to, an organization built on the earth where Satan rules, and obviously influenced by the wickedness of Satan, requires scriptures that prove that this will happen. 

What this poster is saying, Jesus had no impact being on earth while Satan influence was around him to his disciples and the people willing to hear his message. Does that in any way make sense to the poster, since the poster just referenced when Satan spoke to Jesus and attempted to influence Jesus to give Satan homage just like you do to Pearl Doxsey.

So, to this poster, the first century churches should not be considered to be an example for people to model over.

I find this troubling since the poster professes to be Christian. 😬

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That is the best attribute. God is Love.💖

 

"The one sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit."

 

"Yes, Jehovah will give what is good,

And our land will yield its harvest."

 

"Be patient then, brothers, until the presence of the Lord. Look! The farmer keeps waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, exercising patience over it until the early rain and the late rain arrive. You too exercise patience; make your hearts firm, because the presence of the Lord has drawn close."

 

"Amen! Come, Lord Jesus."

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@AnnaNana You said, "some fancy priesthood"

Do you realize that you are mocking Jesus Christ himself, who is our High Priest? Please read Hebrews 3:1-6, which describes the house/ sanctuary/Temple that God is building.  
  You are mocking every anointed one since the first century.  You are mocking the apostles/priests, who are the foundation of the spiritual temple of God. (Eph 2:20-22) If you are anointed, you are also mocking yourself!
 
Read chapter 2 of Isaiah.  Where does the law go forth; out of an earthly organization, or out of Zion, which is  God'sTemple/dwelling?
 
And who comprised that Temple? Who have the laws of God written on their heart?  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17: Heb 8:10) 
Who are to preserve those laws?
 
 Unanointed elders?  
 
 
Read chapter 4 of Zechariah, where the two anointed stand by the Lord, as the spiritual Temple of God is being finished, with the last capstone put in place.  This doesn't indicate the refinement of an earthly organization, it indicates the refinement of the anointed remnant who LEAVE falsehoods, who submit to Jesus Christ, their High Priest. They have conquered the Beast with their testimony to truth, the Beast who has disfellowshipped them for that very testimony. (Rev 13:15; 11:7-8,11-12; 12:10-11;15:1-2) They have removed the idolatrous mark that JWs carry on their forehead and in their heart. (Rev 13:4,8,16)  That beast, (Rev 13:1-2) is your idle/organization, the fortress you want to rebuild. (Dan 11:36-37; Rom 1:25) 
 
The scriptures in Zech 4, reflect on Revelation 11:1-3, where the two symbolic witnesses are preaching in sackcloth, because the man of lawlessness, "Gentiles", are trampling the "holy city". 2 Thess 2:3-4
 
Again, the GB is not the man of lawlessness.  It is the unanointed elder body, they are the "Gentiles" ruling over the Temple priesthood.   They are trampling down the priesthood, those who have not received the seal of God on their forehead; that you supposedly, are part of as an anointed one, while also degrading its importance at the same time.  It is all happening in the organization. (Rev 9:1-4; 13:5-7)
 
The holy city is "New Jerusalem". (Gal 4:26)  Again, New Jerusalem is comprise of anointed priests, who as "living stones", are part of the Temple. (1 Pet 2:5,9)
In the last days when the man of lawlessness/elder body, "sits"/rules over these temple priests, the majority, like apparently yourself,  "love it that way".  (Dan 8:25; 9:27;11:31; Mark 13:14)
 
"An astonishing and horrible thing has happened in the land. The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule by their own authority; and my people love to have it so. What will you do in the end of it?"
Jer 5:30,31
 
The " mountainlike organization" that you want to see cleansed, is prophesied to fall. (Zech 4:6-7; Rev 8:8-9)  It is the rival against what God has built on the body of Christ!  It is a facade.  Wake up Anna! I see you preaching a different Jesus, (2 Cor 11:1-4, 13-14) and formulated a plan in your head that is not scripturally based.
 
"Those who work their land will have abundant food, but those who chase fantasies will have their fill of poverty" Prov 28:19
 
Your land is the soil of your spiritual heart. Have you set up an idol in your heart?  (Matt chapter 13). Each anointed heart is depicted as God's "land", His possession, His building. He molds us as priests to do His will, to work alongside his future children. 
 We were bought at a price, you don't become slaves of men and their earthly treasures. (1 Cor 3:9; 6:20; 7:23) We are fully, totally, slaves of God and 
and Jesus Christ only.
 
You say, that we follow no man or woman, but once you enter back into that organization, once the elder body has disfellowshipped the harlot/GB, you will be following men - the eighth king, that the symbolic 10 anointed kings relinquish their royal power over to.  You will once again, be their slave, even if it appears that you will be ruling with them, Rev 17:12-14.
(Gal 1:10)  For now, it appears you only want to follow yourself and your confused view of what God expects of his anointed ones, which you believe is to submit to a man-made rulership that has destroyed them, as well as the truth that they should be carrying in their heart. (Dan 11:9-12; 8:12)
 
"Those who trust in themselves are fools, but those who walk in wisdom are kept safe." Prov 28:26
 
 God refines and disciplines His anointed to serve His children in the future. This is a humble position, wouldn't you say so?  God chooses the humble ones to fulfill this role, not the arrogant as we see in the GB. (Isa 66:2; Zeph 3:12) This last remnant is under a test that Satan has put before them, and God allows it, as discipline, as refinement. (Luke 22:31; Rev 12:1-4) In order to gain victory, we shed the ideas of men, the organization, and submit fully to the rulership of the King of kings, Jesus Christ.
 
When we read Revelation 21, where New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven, and God will be with mankind, this is through the presence of Holy Spirit within the bride of Christ, the anointed priesthood - each heart - where God's Spirit dwells.  They will serve the needs of God, of Jesus Christ their husband, AND all of God's children in the Kingdom.  God in Spirit, will then dwell with mankind.   
(Gen 28:10-17; John 1:50-51; Rev 21:1-8)
 
If we truly love God and His Son, then we will submit to THEIR will, and not to our own.  
 
2 Thess 2:9-12 - "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serves a lie, and all the ways that we wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refuse to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth, but have delighted in wickedness"
 
The apostle Paul describes this event in the light of those who come as if they are from faithful anointed ones, and who proclaim the day of the Lord is here.   1914
Connect the dots, that is where the man of lawlessness that has trampled down the anointed ones, is found.  2 Thess 2:1-4
 
You said, God will destroy the man of lawlessness that you say is found in the organization, but He will not destroy the organization.  Revelation 13:18 shows that the "man of lawlessness"  IS the organization, the Beast that makes war with the saints, with God's holy Temple.  Rev 13:5-7
At the coming of Jesus Christ, it will be destroyed by the breath of his mouth; eternal condemnation by the word of God.  2 Thess 2:8; Rev 19:19-20
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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20 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

Within God's true Org. There are many gifts afforded by God's Holy Spirit. This curiosity seems to equate that of @Space Merchant curiosity.

Only in regards to @Dmitar, but that is about it.

 

19 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

There is a saying about curiosity. I rarely use the NWT, since I have no willingness to abuse nor use God's name in vain. I find using God's name in arguments or debates, defiles God's sovereignty. A problem that even witnesses here have a problem with.

However, I agree the NWT is an excellent translation, even though there are witnesses here that believe the interlinear is not. They rather use outside sources, that have not kept up with new translation sources.

Ironically enough, some consider it the best translation. But KJV-Onlyist, will not take that lightly, evidence of this for years.

I've always used the ESV, however, when it comes to Strong's and specific concordances, I do well to make the research compared to those that are unwilling to do so.

At the end of the day, it is early source vs later source. Early source always wins.

 

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Just type in "hearts" in biblegateway.com  and see how many scriptures appear.   None will appear for the word, "organization". God's focus is on people; it is people who put their focus on an organization.

Now quite, and you are being simplistic. In example, "The Golden [Moral] Rule" isn't in the text, but, it is based off of Matthew 7:12 contextually (this is known by everyone). Likewise, with the term "organization", however, what you did not realize is the suggestions, which equates "to do things orderly" - 1 Corinthians 14:39,40.

[39] Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. [40] But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Bible Gateway also has another tab concerning topics, even in this regard, Bible Gateway topics are often vocal on context.

That being said, words and some terms that do not appear in the Bible, often times has a verse or a passage based on it, with reason. Biblegateway makes it very clear, as is other similar websites with online bibles available.

Sidenote: other source - https://biblehub.com/topical/o/organization.htmhttps://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_2941.htm

An organization or being organized is noted as a body of people/persons with a particular purpose, especially a business, society, association, etc. Concerning Christians - Early Christians organized the church and collected the New Testament of the Bible. As different societies interact, they often bring about change in each other. They were organized as a local church apart from the local synagogue.

Christians operate in the church as a member of the body of the Christ. their purpose is to preach the gospel and of the Messianic Age, as is serve and worship The One True God, and they coordinate greatly in various tasks associated with the church. Although members of that body have roles, men, women and often times children operate accordingly, especially in a Biblical, principled and moral standpoint. So Christians, especially as a united and yoked grouped, are organized, as is, orderly. This predates pretty much all denominations, even JWs, for last I checked, the Didache that shed some light on church practices and operations existed before them, and everyone else.

Even outside of faith, anything that is a group collective where the number is large with the same purpose and goals in mind, it is organized, an organization.

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