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JOHN BUTLER

RECLAIMED VOICES new letter to JW brothers and sisters.

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I'm a JW but not the common one anyways it does amazed me how we had 6 months of Australia Royal Child sex commission founded by the government to investigate all child abuse cases and nothing was published or was announced or made public of the outcome in the JW org. Shameful indeed. Is like nothing happened. And the worst was the answers given at the royal commission by the elders and one GB who had to give testimony. 

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36 minutes ago, Jay Iza said:

I'm a JW but not the common one anyways it does amazed me how we had 6 months of Australia Royal Child sex commission founded by the government to investigate all child abuse cases and nothing was published or was announced or made public of the outcome in the JW org. Shameful indeed. Is like nothing happened. And the worst was the answers given at the royal commission by the elders and one GB who had to give testimony. 

The Australian Royal commision is only one thing, and i think the investigation lasted 3 years.

Here in the UK we had the Charity Commision do a similar investigation with similar results.

And there is mention of the IICSA, ( Inquiry Into Child Sexual Abuse ),  doing a deeper investigation here in the UK.

In Canada the Superior Court of Quebec have been trying to file a, $66 million, lawsuit against the JW Org/Watchtower.

In the Netherlands a foundations known as 'Reclaimed Voices' are helping victims of sexual abuse within the JW Org.

In USA there have been so many court cases, fines, compensation paid by the JW Org, it is getting difficult to follow now.

Much of my information is out of date as it seems that news about these things is somehow being hidden from public view. 

There is so much information on Goggle about Child Abuse within the JW Org / Watchtower Soc, so much Pedophilia being reported, BUT go careful what you believe and research how old the news is as it does get confusing with so much to read. 

 

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John, have you gone to the police or social services about the child sexual molestation allegation you know of?

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4 minutes ago, Anna said:

Oh what massive lies the GB and their legal departments tell.

What they put in print does not match up with what they do in practice. 

Unless you want to believe that all the VICTIMS tell lies. 

But then you probably don't want the truth on this matter. 

Get it in your head, the GB didn't care. The victims were just collateral damage, expendable. 

The GB care now of course because the truth is made known and the GB and the JW org is suffering financially and losing face.. 

But what is most important is that God and His son have been brought low and made objects of insult. 
 

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4 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

What they put in print does not match up with what they do in practice. 

Well it's for everybody to see and check for themselves isn't it? I mean If I was a mother and my child told me someone from the congregation molested them, and I would go to the elders, I would expect things to go according to that "safeguarding policy". And if it didn't, I have that document to point to don't I?

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9 minutes ago, Anna said:

Well it's for everybody to see and check for themselves isn't it? I mean If I was a mother and my child told me someone from the congregation molested them, and I would go to the elders, I would expect things to go according to that "safeguarding policy". And if it didn't, I have that document to point to don't I?

Part of that document says that Children are not separated from their parents. 

Evidence given in at least one court case says that an Elder sexually assaulted a young girl when the Elder took the girl on the ministry in his pick up truck. This seemed to have happened more than once. 

In another case a  girl said she was sexually assaulted when an Elder was giving her a bible study. 

In both cases the Elder must have been alone with a child.  Your choice if you believe these victims or not. 

As you mention above you would have that document, but what if the Elders called your child or you a LIAR ?

Do you believe these victims or do you think they are all guided by Satan to tell lies against the GB and the ORG. 

You have to make a choice what you believe, then you have to stand by your choice of belief. That is what I did. 

 

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8 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Do you believe these victims or do you think they are all guided by Satan to tell lies against the GB and the ORG. 

I believe the victims, and yes, this did happen years ago.

 

9 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Evidence given in at least one court case says that an Elder sexually assaulted a young girl when the Elder took the girl on the ministry in his pick up truck.

This sounds like the Candace Conti case,, that happened in the 80's

10 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

In another case a  girl said she was sexually assaulted when an Elder was giving her a bible study. 

This also happened in the 80's

You live and learn. I can assure you this no longer happens. What has been happening in recent years is exactly as is written in the document, with the addition that now the child molester is made known to parents.

Why don't you test out the safe guarding policy yourself, instead of claiming that it is not being followed? Why don't you tell the elders of the accusation you have learned of? 

5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch
office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws.
(Romans 13:1)
Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s
Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or
there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation
of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the
other parent

 

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3 minutes ago, Anna said:

Why don't you test out the safe guarding policy yourself, instead of claiming that it is not being followed? Why don't you tell the elders of the accusation you have learned of? 

5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch
office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws.
(Romans 13:1)
Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s
Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or
there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation
of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the
other parent

Why cant the policy state to take it to the police first? 

Who is more trained to handle these types of situations? Elders/police? 

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2 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Why cant the policy state to take it to the police first? 

Who is more trained to handle these types of situations? Elders/police? 

10. Child abuse is a serious sin. If an alleged abuser is a member of the congregation, the elders
conduct a Scriptural investigation. This is a purely religious proceeding handled by elders according
to Scriptural instructions and is limited to the issue of membership as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
A
member of the congregation who is an unrepentant child abuser is expelled from the congregation and
is no longer considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 Corinthians 5:13) The elders’ handling of an
accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter
.—Romans

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4 minutes ago, Anna said:

I believe the victims, and yes, this did happen years ago.

 

This sounds like the Candace Conti case,, that happened in the 80's

This also happened in the 80's

You live and learn. I can assure you this no longer happens. What has been happening in recent years is exactly as is written in the document, with the addition that now the child molester is made known to parents.

Why don't you test out the safe guarding policy yourself, instead of claiming that it is not being followed? Why don't you tell the elders of the accusation you have learned of? 

5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch
office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws.
(Romans 13:1)
Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s
Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or
there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation
of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the
other parent

 

You really don't want to listen do you.

The Elders know about the situation. The Elders have the names of both parties concerned. I don't have the name of the victim.

Now if what you say is true, the Elders would have already informed the Police right ?  No, i don't think so. 

And i cannot talk to the accused or the Elders as I have left the org and not one of the 120 / 130 people will talk to me. 

Now i haven't told people not to talk to me, so it's their fault if I cannot warn them. I left the Org so that i could warn people, but those congregants have chosen of their own free will (because of fear of punishment) not to talk to me. So i no longer feel responsible. 

Nearly 12 pm here in England, so good night to you. 

 

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Anna,

So you are not going to give your answer, and instead regurgitate what the wt says.  

 

Did you notice that nothing is said of taking this "serious sin" to the police, when in fact it is a serious crime? 

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Should watch the Australian royal commission on child sex abuse within JWs victims which is available online and you will see first hand how our procedures and everything is handle within the organization, you will be shocked. 

It has been some years since then and we have heard nothing from it and no 1 policy changed even though many several recommendations were given by the Australian commission to be changed.

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5 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

So you are not going to give your answer, and instead regurgitate what the wt says.  

Your question was about WT policy wasn't it??  So I quoted the policy.

5 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Did you notice that nothing is said of taking this "serious sin" to the police, when in fact it is a serious crime? 

It is both. Spiritually it is a sin, legally it is a crime. Since the elders are concerned with spiritual things in the congregation and not law making, they focus on the sinful aspect. This does not negate nor replace the criminal aspect.

I don't need anyone to point out the difference to me. Do you? I mean would you go to the police and say "so and so has committed a sin". You would get funny looks wouldn't you?

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3 hours ago, Jay Iza said:

Should watch the Australian royal commission on child sex abuse within JWs victims which is available online and you will see first hand how our procedures and everything is handle within the organization, you will be shocked. 

It has been some years since then and we have heard nothing from it and no 1 policy changed even though many several recommendations were given by the Australian commission to be changed.

I listened to the ARC when it was broadcast live. I have the transcripts too. There have been policy changes, you must have missed that bit.

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3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 

And i cannot talk to the Elders as I have left the org and not one of the 120 / 130 people will talk to me. 

Now i haven't told people not to talk to me, so it's their fault if I cannot warn them. I left the Org so that i could warn people, but those congregants have chosen of their own free will (because of fear of punishment) not to talk to me. 

 

Excuses. You haven't even tried.

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So i no longer feel responsible. 

Bit of a bummer for the children if the accused molests again. I don't get you John, I really don't....

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@Anna  Quote Bit of a bummer for the children if the accused molests again. I don't get you John, I really don't....

All well and good but you are still part of that Organisation that still continues to hide Pedophiles in it's ranks.
I don't get you Anna, I really don't ..............
 
As as for me not even trying. I've emailed people and they do not reply.
 
Even my own biological brother, who is an Elder in our home town, has stopped contact with me. Yet he agreed with my stand at first. 
 
But of course you want me to put myself on the line, to be accused of slander, by Elders of an organisation that i know to be dishonest anyway. I think the Elders would just love to have that to pin on me. Then they could tell the congregation that i am an apostate, and give everyone, what they would consider, a genuine reason, for not talking to me. 
 
I have actually been looking for the piece of paper that I wrote all the details on, but i can't find it. I was talking to a teacher a week ago and she told me that new laws had been brought in here in the UK, regarding reporting abuse. However when I looked into the 'new laws' I think it is for people in jobs working with children, teachers, social workers, etc, so not for the general public. 
 
But I can see how you would rather focus on blaming me, rather than be concerned that this Child Abuse is Earthwide in the Organisation which you are part of. 
 
If you were really concerned you would think it more than 'a bit of a bummer' for all the victims Earthwide, those in the past and those now. 
 
 

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14 hours ago, Anna said:

10. Child abuse is a serious sin. If an alleged abuser is a member of the congregation, the elders
conduct a Scriptural investigation. This is a purely religious proceeding handled by elders according
to Scriptural instructions and is limited to the issue of membership as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
A
member of the congregation who is an unrepentant child abuser is expelled from the congregation and
is no longer considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 Corinthians 5:13) The elders’ handling of an
accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter
.—Romans

If it is so as this declaration No 10 say, than WHY elders must contact Legal Department first on how this purely religious proceeding must continue. ?? How it is possible that mature elders can not decide (independently, according to their so called "Bible-educated" conscience or better - according to their Natural God given Consciencehow first thing, in benefit for the victim, is that POLICE have to secure PHYSICAL SAFETY FOR VICTIM, and then after this first step or parallel to this very first move that  must been done, is SPIRITUAL SAFETY for victim that this so called "mature men" have to provide. 

According to your brother Asch in his deposition, he made this CLEAR DISTINCTION about PHYSICAL SAFETY and SPIRITUAL SAFETY and how WT GB and their Lawyers defending themselves and their money and their Organizational Honor.

Your respond on John's post is how things he mentioned is from past, in 1980 es. ARC is from 2015 and WT elders in Australia are very bad role model as those elders from 1980 period. No progress was made in benefit for victims. All because of money and WTJWorg Corporation Public Picture.

Face the TRUTH and Reality please!

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