WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

Every man and his dog on line now claims to be anointed....it’s hard to take any of them serious...why on earth would he or any one be jealous of them??.

Why on Earth would the GB suddenly decide that ONLYTHEY are the Faithful and discreet Slave ? When the teaching was that ALL ANOINTED ONES were the Faithful and discreet Slave

Why on Earth would the GB then say that the Anointed SHOULD NOT GATHER TOGETHER as it would be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT ?  

Why ? Well I think it shows jealousy or fear on the part of the GB and maybe others too. 

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is all starting to come together. The music is rising to heart-bending finale.

We are waiting only for the fat lady to sing.

Of course, she is probably afraid to, after reading @xero

[xero]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Why on Earth would the GB suddenly decide that ONLYTHEY are the Faithful and discreet Slave ? When the teaching was that ALL ANOINTED ONES were the Faithful and discreet Slave

Why on Earth would the GB then say that the Anointed SHOULD NOT GATHER TOGETHER as it would be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT ?  

Why ? Well I think it shows jealousy or fear on the part of the GB and maybe others too. 

I suppose I always blew off the anointed idea as having authority (to me it's sola scriptura all the way, even Jesus said "Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God" - Jehovah is the authority, Jesus is the authority, the scriptures have authority - balanced w/the need to allow for differences in consciences (to me, focus on anointed is a weak faith which I tolerate). Maybe it was a local phenomenon, but it was mostly weirdos or really old people who partook. Invariably some would just go nuts. I think some people mistake the voices in their heads for being special. The desire to worship the creation has a real pull on people.

The other issues I have with the whole thing (not saying that it's not real) is that there's no objective measurement to determine this thing.

It's not as if you could go to the Bible and establish a diagnostic criteria (a spiritual DSM manual) for cases of being anointed.

In one congregation there were some that had some weird theory about being anointed meant you could see some weird thing when you looked at the sky when the sun was setting. I didn't even bother investigating that. The sister was weird, she'd lost a daughter and her son was a musician and periodically had to deal w/alcohol issues. I chalked it up to distress and wanting to be special in some way. Her belief did at least for a time calm her down. I don't know how she is today.

We used to think that all this was moot. It was simple. If you were at the right place and the right time and the deal was if you became a "true christian", then you were a defacto "anointed".

So all the people from the 1st century on, if they were true, then they were anointed.

I wondered. "Is that even true?" "Why some and not others?". Of course it didn't matter so much to me, because if anyone was it wasn't my business. I never got the chance to ask (I would have if there wasn't so much social pressure to NOT ask).  Ostensibly it was a spiritual job interview process, like they're hiring 144k down at the factory and they need people w/various life skills and experiences. Once the slot got filled (you died w/the golden ticket) it would be 144k-1 and so on.

I still believe that this kingdom and it's rulers will be pulled from humanity, but whether someone is or isn't anointed - that's their problem unless they make it my problem by saying "If you don't believe X, Y, and Z are anointed, you're outta here." I certainly won't argue the point when it's been made manifest.

In any case in MT 25, not one of the righteous had a clue who Christ's brothers were. They treated all men equally. But we claim to know. Huh. Somehow we're smarter than the righteous.

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@xero  Hogwash as usual. And you never even tried to answer the questions, you just sidetracked as most JWs do. 

[xero]

Just now, 4Jah2me said:

@xero  Hogwash as usual. And you never even tried to answer the questions, you just sidetracked as most JWs do. 

Like one brother said "Opinions are like elbows - everyone's got two"

I said, "but what about that brother w/one arm?"

He replied "good point!"

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, xero said:

(I would have if there wasn't so much social pressure to NOT ask).

Social pressure made by GB ? :))

@Anna Page 24, Par.10 “How can we show appropriate respect for those whom Jehovah chooses to anoint? We would not ask them personal  questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us." -  WT Jan 2016 ,

.... source find  in interesting topic;

 

[xero]

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Social pressure made by GB ? :))

@Anna Page 24, Par.10 “How can we show appropriate respect for those whom Jehovah chooses to anoint? We would not ask them personal  questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us." -  WT Jan 2016 ,

.... source find  in interesting topic;

Of course the statement is true - We would show proper respect and we should whom Jehovah chooses, however this assumes the point in question, namely "Has, Jehovah chosen them?".  We don't know. So to judge that they actually are would be as bad/good as judging they aren't. I simply withhold judgment. If someone were to ask a reason for the hope in us, we ought to be able to provide a reasonable answer (reasonable involves external evidence we can all look at). Now it just may be that some simply have yet to be consumed by the fire that ate up Nadab and Abihu. I don't know. It isn't my concern as this goes. But once again. All your authority must come from scripture. So that's the authority. Not your profession. Hence my annoyance at the constant division this causes. It's one flock under the one shepherd. Not one flock under a bunch of other people under the one shepherd. Now when the time comes and these are actually enthroned? No problem. But now. Everyone puts his pants on one leg at a time. No supermen. No superfine apostles. Of course I could be stubborn, but maybe I've been anointed to be stubborn. I keep it to myself. Follow the scriptures. Avoid creature worship.

 

[Anna]

46 minutes ago, xero said:

 

We would not ask them personal  questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us." -  WT Jan 2016 ,

Of course the statement is true - We would show proper respect and we should whom Jehovah chooses,

It didn't used to be like that though. We had a sweet old anointed couple in our congregation back in England, in fact we were in their book study group and he was the conductor. Anyway, if one were to think of a perfect example of what one imagines the anointed to be, he and his wife were it. They were no different from any other faithful and spiritual brother or sister.

But things were different back then, there wasn't the taboo surrounding anointed ones like there seems to be today. Everyone just accepted they were anointed and that was it. We could talk about it. In fact my mum asked the brother once how does he know he is anointed, what happened when he realized he had the calling? He told her that before, he was looking forward to living on paradise earth, and then this changed, and he had this unrelenting desire to be with Jesus in heaven. He didn't feel special, and he didn't question it, he just accepted it. He did admit though it was difficult to explain.

I think today, "political correctness" has crept into the congregation too. Also, as has been discussed, there is some uncertainty about who really IS anointed today. Perhaps being discreet and minding our own business avoids situations where we might be questioning some "crazy" sister. We had one "anointed" sister in another congregation who would go around with a lit lighter muttering "I see you".

[xero]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

It didn't used to be like that though. We had a sweet old anointed couple in our congregation back in England, in fact we were in their book study group and he was the conductor. Anyway, if one were to think of a perfect example of what one imagines the anointed to be, he and his wife were it. They were no different from any other faithful and spiritual brother or sister.

But things were different back then, there wasn't the taboo surrounding anointed ones like there seems to be today. Everyone just accepted they were anointed and that was it. We could talk about it. In fact my mum asked the brother once how does he know he is anointed, what happened when he realized he had the calling? He told her that before, he was looking forward to living on paradise earth, and then this changed, and he had this unrelenting desire to be with Jesus in heaven. He didn't feel special, and he didn't question it, he just accepted it. He did admit though it was difficult to explain.

I think today, "political correctness" has crept into the congregation too. Also, as has been discussed, there is some uncertainty about who really IS anointed today. Perhaps being discreet and minding our own business avoids situations where we might be questioning some "crazy" sister. We had one "anointed" sister in another congregation who would go around with a lit lighter muttering "I see you".

That was my experience w/a few of the older ones. Most of the older brothers had gone to prison during WWII for conscientious objection. One learned the truth as a hand on the King Ranch. He had been a colporteur and his son told me used to sit any cry on the edge of the bed that people weren't accepting the truth. He really cared about people.

[Witness]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

@Anna Page 24, Par.10 “How can we show appropriate respect for those whom Jehovah chooses to anoint? We would not ask them personal  questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us." -  WT Jan 2016 ,

Whether someone is anointed or not, it concerns everyone.  These words of the GB are twisted, as usual.  The believers in the first century were well aware of those who were anointed.  Should it now stop knowing who they are?  And why?  Eight men hold power over all, that is why.  This is opinionated persuasion of men who have a devious underlying reason, for teaching JWs to avoid the anointed.  It is only to preserve their dominance.  Why do men’s opinions become law, with no backing of God’s Word?  Why don't JWs put Christ's teaching before the laws, decrees of men?

This is what Christ says:

John 13:20 - Truly I tell you, whoever receives anyone I send receives me, and the one who receives me receives him who sent me."

This shows, that avoiding any who claim to be anointed, as the WT stresses, could possibly result in rejecting not only Jesus Christ, but the Father.  This means knowing what is in their spiritual heart.  What gift have they received?  How can they contribute to the Body?  (1 Cor 12)

Matt 10:40,41 - "The one who welcomes you welcomes me, and the one who welcomes me welcomes him who sent me. 41 "Anyone who welcomes a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward. And anyone who welcomes a righteous person because he's righteous will receive a righteous person's reward.”

Matt 10:14,15 - "If anyone does not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that house or town. 15 "Truly I tell you, it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

So, the Wt wants the anointed to remain anonymous.   What if, within that group of anointed, there is a prophet, or a "righteous person"?  How will JWs react when Jesus asks, "why did you reject me"?  (Matt 10:42)  Why did you choose to listen to a false prophet instead of whom I sent?  (Matt 7:15-20)

Matt 10:24,25 - "A disciple is not above his teacher, or a slave above his master. 25 "It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house 'Beelzebul,' how much more the members of his household!” 

In the case of Ray Franz who spoke up against the leadership, he was disfellowshipped for following God’s Word instead the governing body, and for exposing their lies.  He was labeled an apostate, which in reality was an act of sinning against the Holy Spirit committed by the leadership.  Whose side did the majority of JWs take?  Did they say he had an evil spirit for speaking against the GB?   Most likely.   

So most of the anointed have chosen to remain anonymous as they are told, for fear of being called into the back room?  Whatever the Spirit of truth placed in the heart is not used, since they cannot act upon who they are - as someone Jesus sent to reveal truth. (1 John 2:20; Mal 2:7)

John 15:5-8 - "I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without me. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown aside like a branch and he withers. They gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this: that you produce much fruit and prove to be my disciples."

How can they prove to be disciples of Christ, if the anointed are told to reject any questions about who they are?  They are not producing "fruit", but selling what a false prophet has produced.  

There is always irony coming out of the GB's mouth.  In the annual meeting,  K. Cook mentioned the anointed, how all of JWs must take into account how they treat those in Christ.  He stated Jesus will judge us by how we accept them.  (Matt 10:42) Now, according the above quote, can anyone really "accept" the anointed if no one can inquire about their anointing, or how they feel about truth?   Oh, he also said the way to support them, is through the "preaching work". There you go, that is safe.  No possible challenge can be made against either the GB or the elder body.  We know that this work is regulated spiritual food, already dished out without any of the anointed taking part, except those of the wicked slave.   (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,12,16)

In the harvest, we are "sorted" by the teachings we choose.  

"Dear Friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone into the world".   1 John 4:1`

 

Thank you, Srecko!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thinking]

12 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Why on Earth would the GB suddenly decide that ONLYTHEY are the Faithful and discreet Slave ? When the teaching was that ALL ANOINTED ONES were the Faithful and discreet Slave

Why on Earth would the GB then say that the Anointed SHOULD NOT GATHER TOGETHER as it would be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT ?  

Why ? Well I think it shows jealousy or fear on the part of the GB and maybe others too. 

Do you think Jehovah lacks the power to correct the errors you talk about?

 

 

 

[Anna]

44 minutes ago, Witness said:

for teaching JWs to avoid the anointed. 

 

44 minutes ago, Witness said:

avoiding any who claim to be anointed, as the WT stresses,

What are you talking about? Nobody is saying anyone should avoid the anointed.

 

44 minutes ago, Witness said:

can anyone really "accept" the anointed if no one can inquire about their anointing, or how they feel about truth?

You can accept the anointed without inquiring about their anointing surely? Or do you need them to talk to you about their anointing before you accept them? As for talking to them about how they feel about the truth, why on earth should you not be able to do that?