Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses

[TrueTomHarley]

9 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

These guys go totally off topic but I don't mind it takes the heat off me for a while.  

 

Your turn will come, buster.

[Space Merchant]

Just another day in the Office, as a I sit and read through 1st of Samuel (The First of Kings) as we speak.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

”You can do it, Tom. You can take out the big lout JTR. Remember, he uses chain-saw logic. Distract him a little, and he will cut off his own arm.”

About 8 years go, on fine Autumn day, I had a chain saw "jump back" on me, and I cut the left hand "trigger finger " almost completely off, at the first joint. and got blood all over me, my clothes and shoes, and the chain saw. 

I stuck it back on ... let it bleed until it stopped naturally, and wrapped it with duct tape.  It healed up perfectly, but with a slight 12 degree angle towards the  ring finger, at that finger joint.

.... while I was waiting for the blood to stop, my Son came in , and I looked at him,, held up my bloody hand and said " Tommy ... don't be stupid, like your Dad."

I am encouraged that Jellyfish have lived for 300 Million Years, with no brain whatsoever.

[Space Merchant]

@James Thomas Rook Jr. That is unfortunate. The best remedy for such injury is a dipping of alcohol, gets the job done. And I guess duck tape was also an added miracle. All and all, just to be on the safe side, a hospital trip.

As someone once told me, you wouldn't want to get your DNA and perfect genes all over the place.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

18 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

As someone once told me, you wouldn't want to get your DNA and perfect genes all over the place.

Someone once said that to King Solomon, with all those wives and concubines.

He LAUGHED for a half hour.

[TrueTomHarley]

Okay, we have reached the point where discussion starts to fragment and can go in that direction for a time until the Librarian (the old hen) looks up from her bottle and charges over to scream at her pupils turned unruly. Let’s branch into something closely related about our ‘apostates.’

While they may not be lazy, they certainly are deceitful. They push for all it is worth the idea that all you have to do is disagree with the GB and you will be expelled! Well, what do they disagree with them ABOUT? It’s amazing how many of them go on to embrace the homosexual lifestyle or become activists in this or that aspect of the greater world, newly determined to fix whatever they think is wrong with it. 

Essentially, they don’t like the idea that Christians should be separate from the world. That is being ‘insular’, they charge, which has become the greatest of all sins. It’s not exactly a ‘gentleman’s disagreement’ that can’t even be tolerated, as they charge.

In fact, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses disagree with this or that aspect of theocracy. But they also put it in perspective. They know that in any organized arrangement there will be some things that don’t go your way. They also are modest enough to know that maybe it is they themselves who are wrong. We are, after all, being taught by Jehovah . Everyone knows from Day 1 God does not run it as a democracy.

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

Watchtower logic is like this:

What we told and what we teach is true. Now we just have to wait for new information's that will prove opposite or different. Meanwhile, all who would disagree with us must go, in this way or another.

:)))) haha .. for my opposers

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Okay, we have reached the point where discussion starts to fragment and can go in that direction for a time until the Librarian (the old hen) looks up from her bottle and charges over to scream at her pupils turned unruly. Let’s branch into something closely related about our ‘apostates.’

While they may not be lazy, they certainly are deceitful. They push for all it is worth the idea that all you have to do is disagree with the GB and you will be expelled! Well, what do they disagree with them ABOUT? It’s amazing how many of them go on to embrace the homosexual lifestyle or become activists in this or that aspect of the greater world, newly determined to fix whatever they think is wrong with it. 

Essentially, they don’t like the idea that Christians should be separate from the world. That is being ‘insular’, they charge, which has become the greatest of all sins. It’s not exactly a ‘gentleman’s disagreement’ that can’t even be tolerated, as they charge.

In fact, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses disagree with this or that aspect of theocracy. But they also put it in perspective. They know that in any organized arrangement there will be some things that don’t go your way. They also are modest enough to know that maybe it is they themselves who are wrong. In fact, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses disagree with this or that aspect of theocracy.But they also put it in perspective. They know that in any organized arrangement there will be some things that don’t go your way. They also are modest enough to know that maybe it is they themselves who are wrong. We are, after all, being taught by Jehovah . Everyone knows from Day 1 God does not run it as a democracy.

I'll agree this topic has certainly gone way off line but I didn't start it and I don't want the limelight, even though some may think i do.

The word Apostate just means someone that has turned away from their former religion. So the disciples were in fact Apostates to the Jewish religion.  But the JW Org seem to want it to mean, someone who has turned against God and Jesus Christ.

Hence the JW Org love the word Apostate as it serves as ammunition for them to dislike / not talk to former Witnesses. A rather sad situation but that's as it is.

Tom has made a number of sweeping statements or suggestions or implications here, some of which hold water others not.

I'll agree with Tom that the 'homosexual lifestyle' is something that some ex JW's  turn to. I was very disappointed with the 'protests' in London earlier this year, outside of JW conventions. I'm glad I was not any part of those protests. One particular homoseual showing off and becoming 'famous' amongst the protesters. Yuk.

Tom's next statement is so much a blanket statement that i would have thought it was beneath him.

"Essentially, they don’t like the idea that Christians should be separate from the world". Really Tom ? And you have spoken to so many of them in person have you about this issue ?  Remember you are talking about apostates. People that have turned away from their former religion, not turned away from God or Christ........ 

There are so many things in your last paragraph that try to once again blanket over all, that it is laughable. 

1. Theocracy. Where is your proof of it ?  Catholics could say the same sentence that you have written.

In fact, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses / Catholics / Protestants  disagree with this or that aspect of theocracy. Is it so funny.

Unless you can prove without doubt, that the JW Org and it's Governing Body are being directly guided by God through Jesus Christ, then what you are  saying means nothing. 

2.  "We are after all being taught by Jehovah".  Sweeping statement with again no proof.

Tom, we come back to,  'Can you prove the GB are the Faithful and discreet slave ?' Can you prove they are getting direct information from Jehovah ? If not then your above statement is at best a guess. 

Oh, and back to the beginning of your comment. 

"They push for all it is worth the idea that all you have to do is disagree with the GB and you will be expelled!"

Um, my brother is an Elder in a congregation here in England and he agrees with me that if you ask to many questions and if you disagree with the GB, you can and probably will be disfellowshipped for, "Causing a division within the congregation". 

Hence I left before making any statements to anyone. 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

20 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Over to you Tom. I have other things to do right now....  

No you don’t 

He is even wrong here:

’Tom's next statement is so much a blanket statement that i would have thought it was beneath him.’

If it was really a blanket, it would be on top of me.

A lot of things are that way with our apostates: completely upside down.

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

22 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No you don’t 

He is even wrong here:

’Tom's next statement is so much a blanket statement that i would have thought it was beneath him.’

If it was really a blanket, it would be on top of me.

A lot of things are that way with our apostates: completely upside down.

 

As it happened I didn't win anything at the auction so didn't have to go. So I edited the comment a bit after.

But if that is the  best reply you can come up with i can see why you are still a JW, a non thinking machine. 

Try a bit harder Tom, at least try to show some intelligence. 

[Witness]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

While they may not be lazy, they certainly are deceitful. They push for all it is worth the idea that all you have to do is disagree with the GB and you will be expelled! Well, what do they disagree with them ABOUT? It’s amazing how many of them go on to embrace the homosexual lifestyle or become activists in this or that aspect of the greater world, newly determined to fix whatever they think is wrong with it. 

 “They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. ³ And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. ⁴ But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them.”  John 16:2-4

“put you out of the synogogues”  - aposynagōgos - excluded from sacred assemblies of Israelites, excommunicated.

Spiritual “Israel” are the anointed ones.  They are assembled IN THE WATCHTOWER.  Rom 2:28,29; Heb 8:10; Rev 7:4

The disfellowshipping act shows that Jehovah has a clean people who adhere to Scriptural guidelines in order to maintain that holiness.   Wt 15/4/15

“…will think that he offers God service”

It is a serious thing to disfellowship a person, because it means that the person is cut off from God’s organization, from life.  Wt 61/6/15

“…the time is coming that whoever kills you”

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. ¹⁰ And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.”  Matt 24:9,10 

 “Therefore whoever confesses Me (Jesus Christ) before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. ³³ But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.”  Matt 10: 32,33

“He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.”  Matt 10:39

Preaching to Israel -

“Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. ²² And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. ²³ When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”  Matt 10:21-23

“This good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth”.  Matt 24:14

The “inhabited earth” is the dwelling of God – “Israel”.  Acts 7:48-50; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:14-18

How can an organization offer life?  Is the Watchtower run by a different means than any other organizations in the world?  It uses your money, time, and dedication to keep it afloat.  Matt 6:24 

It is part of this world.  How foolish to think we can use the very resources the world offers and then label it a theocracy ruled by God. 

“ Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.  For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.”  1 John 2:16

There is only one gate, one door -  Christ Jesus.  John 10  You hear about him on occasion, but  another door - “Jehovah’s organization” -  and another Master, the “slave”, takes the spotlight. 

Not everyone who is disfellowshipped runs off to commit sin, free to do whatever they want.  Anointed and those not anointed, desire to serve the one true Master, Christ, and the Father.  Their obedience to them is direct.  They don’t need a wicked slave to authorize every detail of their life, from clothing to the form of praise they must offer to “Jehovah”.  Rev 13:1,4,11,14-17  I doubt JWs can imagine being guided by Holy Spirit first-hand when their governing body admits it is not.

There is one “organization” that Jesus and God have authorized and it has no part in the riches of the world.  John 2:19,21; 1 Pet 2:4-10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 12:18-24; Isa 55:1; Rev 22:17

"O house of Jacob, (“Israel”)  come and let us walk
In the light of the Lord.

⁶ For You have forsaken Your people, the house of Jacob,
Because they are filled with eastern ways;
They are soothsayers like the Philistines,
And they are pleased with the children of foreigners. (elder body rule, not “circumcised” Ezek 44:6-9; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12
⁷ Their land is also full of silver and gold,
And there is no end to their treasures;
Their land is also full of horses,
And there is no end to their chariots.  Joel 2:1-5; Rev 9; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 13:1,2,7,18

⁸ Their land is also full of idols;
They worship the work of their own hands,
That which their own fingers have made.

Work to build into his heart a deep love and respect for Jehovah, the Bible, and Jehovah’s organization. Km 10/90   

⁹ People bow down,
And each man humbles himself;
Therefore do not forgive them.

   A humble person becomes more valuable to Jehovah’s organization because his attitude makes him a good and useful servant of God.  Wt 12/11/15

¹⁰ Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust,
From the terror of the Lord
And the glory of His majesty.  Joel 2:1,2; Matt 24:4-8

¹¹ The lofty looks of man shall be humbled,
The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down,
And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day."

Christians—Be Proud of Who You Are!  Wt 05/2/15

Am I proud to tell people that I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses?’  ws18 July pp. 21-26  

You live in a land of mixed messages, yet, “my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?”  Jer 5:31

"Sever yourselves from such a man,
Whose breath is in his nostrils;
For of what account is he?"  Isa 2:22

Isaiah chapter 2 depicts the rise of the true Mt Zion, “restored” and finished outside of a mountain of confusion.  Zech 4:6,7; Isa 48:20

 

 

 

 

[admin]

I would just like to state for the record that as the owner of this website... I do not like pejorative labels.

LABEL and KILL seems to be the way most groups continue to operate nowadays.

I realize that all you different religions are free to exercise what you believe in.....

however I would like to push MY OWN POINT of thought that we ALL should try to stop using labels on people.

I keep seeing different religions on here use the pejorative label "APOSTATE"...... 

Why does anyone in 2018 still subscribe to this antiquated way of thinking?

 

And IF by chance you still do subscribe to this religious mentality .... please realize that the rest of the world doesn't care about how you label others.

They have MOVED ON.....

Try to keep up people.

This technology alone is proving far superior to any fear based religion. Both pro and anti religious groups should try to avoid labels and stick to facts.

- End of rant.

p.s. - I still use the label SPAMMERS in a pejorative sense. Nobody is perfect.