2 Types of Worshippers on the Earth

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

A person must be willing to let go of false beliefs in order to become a True Worshiper.

Thanks for saying this. 

Jesus was the first to obtain immortality and incorruptability from Jehovah as a reward for remaining faithful to him until death. Jesus was like the other angels before he came to earth.  His everlasting life depended on him staying loyal to God.   Read Hebrews 1 in its entirety.

Satan was an angel (like jesus) and became disobedient..... he will be destroyed.  

The lie was told by Satan to Adam when he said: you will not die.  People still believe this lie. They believe that humans have a soul that goes out and it is immortal.......ecclesiastes 9: 5& 10.  Eccl 3: 19 & 20 shows that the soul knows nothing and humans die like an animal. They do not have an immortal soul. Adam would have lived forever while he obeyed God.

The bible clearly shows that the soul dies at death.  We will be recreated at time of resurrection. SO WHAT has this to do with Jesus?  Prophecy indicates in Isaiah 53 : last verses that Jesus will put his "soul" in death to pay for our souls as randsom.  Eze 18:4  says: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.   So our souls die and Jesus put his souls willingly in death to save us.

Abraham offered up his son..... this was a prophecy of what jehovah would do for us. Isaac could have pushed his father away but he willingly allowed his father to sacrifice him because he believed God could resurrect him - give him life again like when He opened his old mothers womb to give birth to him.  God was kind to Abraham because he substituted isaac with an animal but had to go the whole way with Jesus. Jesus willingly came to earth and knew beforehand  that he would go into non-existence for three days.  This is the example of obedience to death.  For dying unjustly while being perfect, jehovah granted him immortality and incorruptability.

Jesus really died - his soul died. Churches who teach that Jesus is God do not really understand the randsom sacrifice. They talk about the blood of jesus but do not understand the depth of the sacrifice of Jesus.   They do not really believe that he died.  If you are immortal - you cannot die.

 

[the Sower of Seed]

On 1/3/2020 at 11:07 AM, Shiwiii said:

How do you reconcile the belief in other, "lessor" gods if God Himself stated in Isiah 43:10 states that none were formed before Him and none after?

43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah,“Yes, my servant whom I have chosen,So that you may know and have faith in me. And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none. 

No God has ever formed by some natural process other than the one who has chosen the name Jehovah.

Jehovah is the Greatest Spiritual Being. Jehovah states His thinking is much higher than mans.

Jehovah Did Not Create Another God Equal to Himself, instead He created lessor spirit beings who He could enjoy some type of relationship with.

However there were some who had a grievance against His perfect moral standard for the angels and have suggested to mankind there is a better life than Jehovah will allow.

After men were created, they imagined different gods with various powers. They incorporated them into their language. Today we have 2 words that are spelled the same, but have a different meaning according to the capitalization of the first g. GOD or God points to the Almighty God Jehovah, the Larger "G" gives reference to His Great Power, whereas the smaller "g" gives reference to a lessor one,a god can describe any "mighty one". Jesus is foretold to become a mighty god, not a mighty GOD. Pharaohs of Egypt were considered as gods. Many rulers try to be seen as such.

Does this knew word in the universe of mankind now make GOD a liar?  No, examine the "g" in Isaiah 43:10.

relate to this analogy:

Lets say the you start an ant farm. It begins modestly but in time the ants outgrow their little container. They now build a large mound. Among them is an ant that is revered as greater than the others. Do you really care whether they call it a god or not? Does their doing so in their little mound of the universe now make God a liar? Since the ants don't have reverence toward the Almighty, their vocabulary has little importance.

For those who want to have the greatest proper reverence toward God it does matter to them and God.

A mainstay of Faith is Trusting with All Your Heart that Jehovah Cannot Lie to us or any other creation.

On 1/3/2020 at 11:07 AM, Shiwiii said:

If you are using the word god flippantly then all of us are gods just like the Mormon's believe.

This is not the design of Jehovah's Witnesses, in fact the 1611 King James Bible replaced the tetragrammaton YHWH with GOD and when it was YHWH being called lord they used LORD, when it was Jesus being called lord they used Lord, recognizing that Jesus is a "lessor" lord.

Jehovah's Witnesses have seen the truth of 2 Corinthians 4:4 and John 1:1 by understanding this. 

Like Satan and those that joined him, many complain about Jehovah God and the organization He has been using to do His Expressed will. However this organization loves the truth and continues to root out falsehoods that are hated by God and His slaves.

Who will God accept to receive His blessings, an organization with a set of principles that reflect Jehovah's moral standards or individuals with differing standards, beliefs and perceptions of what and who He is?

Could the latter uniformly and acceptably preach the Good News in all the inhabited Earth? No

Are the latter sanctifying and praising His chosen name in all the inhabited Earth? No

The True Worshipers would all uniformly believe the Truth about Jehovah, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Kingdom and eternity because of having a global brotherhood that all receive the same spiritual training. Jehovah, in His Infinite Power and Wisdom would continually bring to attention the more important things to Him while they are growing in spirituality, complainers limit His ability to do so. Today, Jehovah is making His will known to an organization in an orderly way. The false worshipers will complain about Jehovah and His people because of His moral standards and his people striving to practice them. Jehovah has foretold the day when He will silence them. Until then we must endure their influence as fighters against God, for as He told Samuel, "it is Me they have rejected".

God is searching for True Worshipers.

 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

On 1/3/2020 at 5:13 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

This verse foretells Jesus, who would become the father of mankind as he repurchases them with his perfect life blood, however 

I'm not going to quote all of your regurgitated wt propaganda, but this first statement I believe is yours so I'll go there. 

Are you suggesting that eternal has a beginning?  I mean if Jesus is the Eternal Father as stated in Isiah 9, which was written before He came to Earth, and you say that he became eternal; when was this beginning? 

 

 

On 1/4/2020 at 4:59 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none. 

this scripture tells the story. There is no god other then Himself. What is called god or gods are NOT. There is only one. no lessor or demigods or the like. Just like money or power or whatever people choose to worship, it is a symbolic "god" to them, but there is no other god. 

[the Sower of Seed]

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Are you suggesting that eternal has a beginning?  I mean if Jesus is the Eternal Father as stated in Isiah 9, which was written before He came to Earth, and you say that he became eternal; when was this beginning? 

Isaiah 9:6 is a prophesy foretelling Jesus

 6 For a child has been born to us, A son has been given to us; And the rulership will rest on his shoulder. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus did not become an Eternal Father until after his unjust death as a Perfect Man as a corresponding atonement for Adams Perfect Life Blood.

Yes, Jesus had a beginning according to Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 

The True worshipers Understand the Father Jehovah GOD had no beginning, whereas the Son is a creation of the Father (just like on Earth, fathers become such after the birth of a son or daughter) Michael / Jesus had a beginning. 

Revelation 3:14“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

There is no god other then Himself. What is called god or gods are NOT. There is only one. no lessor or demigods or the like.

You disagree with the inspired word of GOD? You claim Satan is not a god,however 2 Corinthians 4:4 states he is.

John 1:1 speaks of 2 gods.  1=GOD who the Word was with & 1 god who the Word was.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god

Michael was there in the beginning (the beginning of his helping GOD create all other things)

The Word/Jesus/Michael was with Jehovah GOD and Word/Jesus/Michael was a god.

Every true worshiper must put away false doctrines created by UN-inspired apostate church leaders of the past. By praying to the Only Hearer of Prayer Jehovah for a better understanding of His Bible many come to a knowledge of the Truth. 

 

On 1/4/2020 at 6:59 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

After men were created, they imagined different gods with various powers. They incorporated them into their language. Today we have 2 words that are spelled the same, but have a different meaning according to the capitalization of the first g. GOD or God points to the Almighty God Jehovah, the Larger "G" gives reference to His Great Power, whereas the smaller "g" gives reference to a lessor one,a god can describe any "mighty one". Jesus is foretold to become a mighty god, not a mighty GOD. Pharaohs of Egypt were considered as gods. Many rulers try to be seen as such.

I made a mistake here, GOD & LORD replaced YHWH. Whereas "God" was used in some verses for either YHWH or YESHUA. Whereas "god" is applied toward the Word Jesus, Satan and mighty men but never YHWH. 

[Shiwiii]

On 1/6/2020 at 5:47 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

Isaiah 9:6 is a prophesy foretelling Jesus

agreed. 

On 1/6/2020 at 5:47 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

Jesus did not become an Eternal Father until after his unjust death as a Perfect Man as a corresponding atonement for Adams Perfect Life Blood.

Do you know that the word for eternal in hebrew means without end, but also without beginning? It was understood that the Messiah was always in existence, always. It was only the anticipation of the coming of the Messiah that was referenced with time. 

On 1/6/2020 at 5:47 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

Revelation 3:14“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God

The word arche does not always mean beginning as you and other think. It also means the origin or the source. Supporting scripture for this is found in John 1:3

" All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

So all things were created by Jesus and not one thing that has been created was created without Jesus. Plain, simple and straight forward, even by means of Greek definition. 

On 1/6/2020 at 5:47 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

You disagree with the inspired word of GOD?

Acts 19:26 "You see and hear that not only in Ephesus, but in almost all of [a]Asia, this Paul has persuaded and turned away a considerable number of people, saying that gods made with hands are no gods at all."

On 1/6/2020 at 5:47 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

John 1:1 speaks of 2 gods.

nope, that is a man made idea to lessen the significance of Jesus to fit the jw (insert whatever religion believes this as well) narrative. Even scripture speaks that men will come and do this exact thing. Matt 24:5, Mark 13:6, Luke 21:8

 

On 1/6/2020 at 5:47 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

I made a mistake here, GOD & LORD replaced YHWH. Whereas "God" was used in some verses for either YHWH or YESHUA. Whereas "god" is applied toward the Word Jesus, Satan and mighty men but never YHWH. 

 But it is with context and the ancient manuscripts that we can learn what is exactly written. If one does not do their OWN research and instead relies on others to spoon feed them, then you get people like Jim Jones and Marshall Applewhite. 

[the Sower of Seed]

11 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

" All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

So all things were created by Jesus and not one thing that has been created was created without Jesus. Plain, simple and straight forward, even by means of Greek definition. 

All things came into being through Him.

This means that Jehovah created with Jesus as His helper. It’s the same as when Jesus was on Earth as 100% human with no special ability or power. (He had to be all human in order to pay the corresponding life that Adam threw away. If Jesus was anything else, the sacrifice is invalid) Just as people who were resurrected by Jesus or the Apostles, it was Jehovah’s Holy Spirit that actually did the miracle. When someone was healed it was Jehovah’s Holy Spirit that made them well, not Jesus or the Apostles, although they are credited for it,the Holy Spirit flowed through them to do HIS and their own will.

NO Bible Verse names Jesus as the Creator

 

@Shiwiii said: Do you know that the word for eternal in hebrew means without end, but also without beginning? It was understood that the Messiah was always in existence, always. It was only the anticipation of the coming of the Messiah that was referenced with time. 

I Disagree

It is understood from the prophesy at Genesis 3:15 that a seed would come from God's "woman" or the angelic family. Michael who was God's firstborn son, (just as Isaac was to Abraham) was born as Jesus who became the foretold Messiah. YHWH is the FATHER, YESHUA is the son, and Abraham’s attempt to offer up Isaac was to give a mental picture of what was happening. GOD was giving His dear son. Like Isaac, Jesus was willing to give his life. Genesis 22.

The angels who were all created by God with Michael's assistance are Eternal beings, they all had a beginning. They are eternal by choice, as long as they accept/obey Jehovah's life standards.

Humans will become eternal by choice after Jesus hands all things back to God. They will gain everlasting life as perfect human’s living on Earth as long as they desire to live within Jehovah’s moral code.

On 1/6/2020 at 5:47 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

John 1:1 speaks of 2 gods.

 It must speak of 2 different beings in order to harmonize with the Hebrew verses such as Exodus 3:15 Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name FOREVER, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

GOD'S NAME FOREVER IS YHWH, English JHWH or Jehovah, not Yeshua or Jesus

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 

Who was the Word and Why? Jehovah God is Holy, Righteous, Un-defiled, beyond our comprehension of life. He preferred not to speak to the criminal Adam or his offspring after Adam chose Satan's misleadings. This is why He used angels to speak with imperfect men almost every time. The angel He used most of the time was Jesus, thus he became the Word of God.

With this understanding the Bible verse at John 1:1 really says: In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was a god. 

This simply means Jesus was a mighty angel working beside his Greater Almighty Father Jehovah.

Jesus was CREATED by God,that is why he is called Firstborn and the only begotten.Then God used Jesus as a HELPER to create everything else. 

IF I read it, as you state it should read: In the beginning was GOD, and the GOD was with God, and the GOD was a god.

You Must disagree with the INSPIRED VERSE/S where it states the Almighty God's name is YHWH and not Yeshua. Jesus never said he was God. He affirmed he was the Son of God when Peter stated so.

 The True worshipers can see the truth so clearly, it's so simple.There are hundreds of verses showing YHWH is GOD.The 10 Commandments are given by HIM. Exodus 20:2 “I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You must not have any other gods besides me.

 THIS MAKES JEHOVAH THE GOD THAT CREATED THE TEN PLAGUES AND OPENED THE RED SEA. THE ALMIGHTY!

 Men make Jesus a God in opposition to Jehovah. Whereas the truth is Jehovah created Michael / Jesus, He sent him to Earth, He gave him as a sacrifice, Jesus stated he was the exact representation of his father Jehovah. If people loved Jesus, they should love Jehovah who Jesus mirrored in his works and speech perfectly.

Satan drew Adam and Eve away from Jehovah with a lie. Today, he does the same through many surrogates. 

 As we look at the world we must ask who have the works described at Matthew 7:“15  Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit.18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.

Today resisters of God repel men from the truth that they might not become The True Worshipers. Outside of the churches these men have no organization. Blinded by envy, jealousy or hate they are like nomads who repeat the lies inspired by alienation from God. They began in the 1st century and blossomed as Christianity from the 4th century on, teaching the falsehoods that entrap humanity as False Worshipers, the counterfeit worship created by Satan to mislead as many as possible away from the Truth. He has no compassion or love of humans, they are nothing to him. He misleads so they will not attain life, just as he will not. Men, having this same pain, do the same.

What was Jesus 1st warning of the Last Days?

Mtt.24:4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 

Today, God's Holy Spirit is propelling one organization on Earth to systematically preach the Good News of God's Kingdom. Mtt.24:14

Jehovah's Witnesses

They Were Foretold to be a name people to Him at Isaiah 43:10 

“You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah,“Yes, my servant whom I have chosen,So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 

 

  

 

 

[Shiwiii]

First off, typing with larger letters doesn't make your statements true, nor does it intimidate anyone.

 

5 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

NO Bible Verse names Jesus as the Creator

John 1:3 does 

" All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

 

and so does Colossians 1:16

" For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him."

 

When the Bible says that all things, not most things but ALL things, were created by Jesus, then I have to believe the Bible and not you.

 

5 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The angels who were all created by God with Michael's assistance

not a single scripture backs this claim you make of Michael. 

 

5 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Jesus was CREATED by God,that is why he is called Firstborn and the only begotten.Then God used Jesus as a HELPER to create everything else. 

This statement is in direct opposition to John 1:3. 

 

5 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Jehovah's Witnesses

They Were Foretold to be a name people to Him at Isaiah 43:10 

So then you must not belong to Jesus as scripture says one must be

Romans 8:9 "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."

Galatians 3:24 " Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith." 

Lead us to whom? Jehovah? or Jesus?  its really a trick question......

 

 

 

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him."

The accent here is he created it 'for him'.

Who is this referring to? 

 

Read this quote from hebrews 1:

"Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways.  2 Now at the end of these days he (god) has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.  3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

 

So did Jesus become part of God when he went back to heaven?  Or did he sit at his right hand?  Verse 2 above indicates that God appointed Jesus to do these things. 

 

Hebrews 1 goes on from verse 6

"For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”?  6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him

 

Keep in mind that the word "father " means "life-giver". So while Jesus created all other things he received life from God as the firstborn of creation and after his death he was the first creation of god to receive immortality as a reward for his faithfulness.  

Verse 9 goes on to say the following about Jesus:

"You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions."

The emphases I wish to highlight here are the words "your god".

Hebrews 1 :13   

 "But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”?

Jesus was the archangel before he came to earth ... and the scripture above refers to him after he went back to heaven.

[the Sower of Seed]

3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

First off, typing with larger letters doesn't make your statements true, nor does it intimidate anyone.

I increase the font for those who have vision problems.

How do we Call Jehovah A Liar, just as Satan did? We do not believe what He has inspired!

We call Jesus a liar by implying he is GOD, he just pretended to be the Son of GOD.

HE PRETENDED to be sent to Earth as the Messiah and Mankind's Savior.

If Jesus is GOD than the Sacrifice is INVALID, IT WAS ALL A LIE!

Is the Bible FULL OF FALSEHOODS? Can we just ignore the verses that state YHWH is the ALMIGHTY GOD. 

3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

and so does Colossians 1:16

" For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him."

The Verse states that all things were Created For Him. By Whom Were They Created?

You are stating GOD created all things for Himself...is that reasonable?

[Shiwiii]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

The accent here is he created it 'for him'.

The part you cannot reconcile is: all things were made by Jesus and not one......not one......not one thing that has been made was made without Him.  You either believe that Jesus created Himself, or you believe something other then what the Bible says. Its clear as day and the writers of the jw bible know this, but still decided to insert "other" in Colossians 1. 

4 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

I increase the font for those who have vision problems.

I call bs on that one SOS! otherwise you would have always written that way. Nice try though. 

4 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

If Jesus is GOD than the Sacrifice is INVALID

says who? you?

 

4 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The Verse states that all things were Created For Him. By Whom Were They Created?

you must have missed John 1:3, you and Arauna both seem to forget that verse. 

[the Sower of Seed]

18 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

you must have missed John 1:3, you and Arauna both seem to forget that verse. 

John 1:3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

This verse says nothing new, I have read it many times.

Here is a clearer picture:

ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH had no beginning.

ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH created Michael, His Only Begotten Firstborn Son who was born Jesus.

ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH Said: Let US Create Man In OUR Image

ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH together with Jesus made everything else. 

ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH allowed His Firstborn the Joy of Helping his Daddy make things: All things came into existence through him

ALMIGHTY GOD YHWH is a loving Father, Many Fathers on Earth have allowed their sons to help them in imitation of Him.

 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

The Him in this scripture is Jesus, agreed?