2 Types of Worshippers on the Earth

[Witness]

You must think I believe in the trinity.  I don't.  John 14:28; 5:19

6 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Jesus is THE GIFT OF GOD, GOD is GREATER THAN ANY OTHER BEING.

Yes, God is greater than any other being.  Jesus was His firstborn creation, the Son of God, and it was through Jesus that God brought forth creation. 

 Prov 8:22:31

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. ¹⁶ For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. ¹⁷ And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.”  Col 1:15-17

As the Logos, (John 1:1) he worked as one with God throughout time, and with the nation of Israel.  As an example:

"Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, ² all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, ³ all ate the same spiritual food, ⁴ and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. "1 Cor 10:1-4

Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. ⁵⁵ Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. ⁵⁶ Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

⁵⁷ Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

⁵⁸ Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”  John 8:54-58

How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? (John 5:41-44)

Do you see that God has bestowed honor on His Son?  What about glory?

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.  John 17:5

And you believe God does not want us to give relative worship to His Son?  Are there any examples where Jesus told those who did worship him when on earth, to stop doing so? 

6 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The Entire Bible must Harmonize and must be held as the Highest authority on the matter!

 

The GB, who have admitted that they do not receive inspiration from the Holy Spirit, have assumed that they can change scripture to reflect partiality to whom is to be worshiped -  scripture that is inspired by God.   This effort comes from the minds of men to push a doctrine.  They will be responsible for concocting the doctrine that Christ is not to receive any worship. 

Jesus is a God.  He is the Son of God.

For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.  Isa 9:6

6 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

If you pray to or worship Jesus, you are acting as a False worshiper according to the Bible, See John 4:23,24 WHO IS GOD LOOKING FOR?

God is looking for those who do not view any physical mountain as a place to worship – no “mountainlike organization”. That includes the earthly Watchtower and its images, built in the world influenced by Satan.   John 4:21-24   Zion is spiritual only, built with anointed “living stones”, the Spirit of God, and Christ as the chief cornerstone. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

When you read Rev 5:11-14, please notice that only in this one case involving Christ, does the NWT leave the word, proskyneō, as “worship”, since God on His throne is also mentioned. When reading these scriptures, do you accept it as worship given to both God and the Lamb, or do you ignore Christ and only acknowledge worship is given to God here?  If so, you are practicing hypocrisy.  

Christ and the Father are our salvation, not an organization that suffers from the same corruption that exists in other organizations in the world.  To believe so, is idolatry. 

Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities

"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 

That is a true statement that blows a hole in the validity of your organization.  But, damage control kicked in the same month.  A lie was generated, spoken from the other side of your leaders’ mouth:

Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 

"Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation.”

The faithful anointed are ambassadors for Christ. 2 Cor 5:20 They are God’s “witnesses” in truth – the truth they receive from Christ by Holy Spirit. Matt 7:7; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9,10 They become “one” with Christ in his Body. 1 Cor 12:12; 10:17  Just as Paul spoke with Christ once he was in heaven, so do they. 2 Cor 12:8,9  Christ is there for all of us, to approach in prayer.  It is through Christ, that we come to know the Father.

You said, "We come to Christ through imitation of him, not by prayer to him."

You would not apply that theory when it comes to God, would you.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.  John 14:6

 

 

[the Sower of Seed]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

Most religions do not even understand that the purpose of Jehovah  is to restore the earth by means of the kingdom government under christ.

How many died during the Flood, how many were saved by their faith and works? Did less than 1% survive? Why is that? Noah preached about God for 40 years prior to the first drops of rain. He invited many to join him on the Ark. Yet the plans and size of the Ark did not include space for millions of people,not even thousands or hundreds, Jehovah foresaw the answer the people would have toward Noah's preaching. In all their posturing and outward appearances, the human race is imperfect and drawn to badness, rather than obedience to God. Jehovah in His Infinite Wisdom has set the boundaries of mankind, even for those who understand, obedience can be a challenge while living in this wicked world.

Jehovah will exam the inner person of every adult and execute judgment in the near future. Is there hope for those who have never heard the Good News based on God's finding? There is no scripture stating yes or no, only our knowledge that Jehovah is Just. Those conscious of their Spiritual Need can improve their standing through study and prayer and obedience today, for Jehovah is searching the Earth for them today! He has Assured us that A Great Crowd,which no man was able to number will survive out of all the nations of Earth.

Rev.7:9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.

Even if you have a Spiritual background, it is wise to consider John 4:23,24 and examine why you believe what you do? Who today are being used by God to preach the Good News of God's Kingdom in all the inhabited Earth? Are you one of them?

[the Sower of Seed]

19 minutes ago, Witness said:

Christ and the Father are our salvation, not an organization that suffers from the same corruption that exists in other organizations in the world.  To believe so, is idolatry. 

Jesus is the Gift of God, elevated by God to His right hand, but not as God's Equal.

Jesus was GIVEN Immortality by the One Almighty God who has authority over immortality.

Even in Heaven God gave Jesus a revelation of our future at Revelation 1:1.

In Heaven Jehovah is Almighty, foreseeing the future events then telling them to others!

Jehovah will always be the ALMIGHTY GOD, no one will ever be equal to Him!

Satan has counterfeited the worship of God many times, their are falsehoods that are revealing signs that tell a person that this is not the "True Religion"

Do the patrons * worship Jehovah as God?

Do they honor * Jesus as His Firstborn Son?

Do the respect the * Holy Spirit as an Invisible Force originating from Jehovah God?

Do they * Obey God First then human rulers?

Do they believe in a * burning hell where God punishes the wicked eternally?

Do they * use images to worship?

Do they believe in * the Holy Trinity?

Do they use * paid priests and a clergy?

To find the Bibles answers to all these please copy them from the * into the search bar at JW.org

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

size of the Ark did not include space for millions of people,not even thousands or hundreds, Jehovah foresaw the answer the people would have toward Noah's preaching. In all their posturing and outward appearances, the human race is imperfect and drawn to badness, rather than obedience to God. Jehovah in His Infinite Wisdom has set the boundaries of mankind, even for those who understand, obedience can be a challenge while living in this wicked world.

True, Jehovah causes to become ..... but he works with imperfect people where there is a spirit of cooperation and obedience. 

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Who today are being used by God to preach the Good News of God's Kingdom in all the inhabited Earth? Are you one of them?

Good question because this is the assignment given to his obedient disciples during the perousia Matt 24:14. 

[Matthew9969]

The jehovahs witnesses is one of two Christian religion's that I know of  that has a mandatory suicide doctrine.

[the Sower of Seed]

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Jesus is a God.  He is the Son of God

Jesus is a god according to John 1:1 a lessor god, meaning he is a mighty one, as many men consider themselves a god.

21 hours ago, Witness said:

You said, "We come to Christ through imitation of him, not by prayer to him."

You would not apply that theory when it comes to God, would you.

The Hebrew scripture teach all to pray to Jehovah Only, You stand as an opposer of God Himself, in line with many other opposers. Jehovah is One Being, He Inspired men to write the Bible. Is He now changing His Mind according to your preference? No, You have not harmonized the verses properly. Jesus is much like the attorney for mankind, giving us access to The Holy God we did not have without him.

Jehovah is Holy and cast Adam and Eve from Eden, He never spoke with them again. The Flaming Swords prevented any return or communication with God. Jesus is our access to to God but he is not the Almighty God we are told to worship ONLY.

Is Jesus any different from the angels of Revelation, preserving reverence for Jehovah.

 

21 hours ago, Witness said:

You said, "We come to Christ through imitation of him, not by prayer to him."

You would not apply that theory when it comes to God, would you.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 

What do you propose is the RELIGION that most closely resembles the Way that Jesus and the Apostles worshiped?

21 hours ago, Witness said:

You said, "We come to Christ through imitation of him, not by prayer to him."

You would not apply that theory when it comes to God, would you.

Jesus taught people to pray at Mtt 6:9-15

9 “You must pray, then, this way: “‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth................................................

If Jesus knew he was the one to pray to after his death, WHY did he not teach them to pray "Our Great Son in Heaven, let your name be sanctified?"

The opposers of God Himself would teach men to worship the Son instead of the Father!!!

They would rewrite the Bible changing it's meaning, knowing the warning God gives to those who would do such.

Jesus is Never called the ALMIGHTY GOD,

Worship the One the Bible Calls the Almighty God Jehovah.

The Simplicity of the Bible states God as the Father and Jesus as the son.

God felt men would understand the Headship the Father has over the son. This is why He used Human terms.

The True Worshipers, Worship the Father in Spirit and Truth.

The False Worshipers, worship the son in all manner of Falsehoods

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.  

[Witness]

23 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Satan has counterfeited the worship of God many times, their are falsehoods that are revealing signs that tell a person that this is not the "True Religion"

I really think you need to take a step back in time and analyze your organization’s beliefs.

Firstly, no one has been given the authority to change scripture as your leaders have done with the Bible. Do you agree?  If anyone twists its meaning as the WT has concerning the word for “worship”, we have every right to reject those who do so:

“They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are merely human rules.’

Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”  Matt 7:7,13

Yes they have and do “many things like that”.  2 Tim 2:16

On 12/25/2019 at 12:26 PM, the Sower of Seed said:

If you pray to or worship Jesus, you are acting as a False worshiper according to the Bible

 

3 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The Hebrew scripture teach all to pray to Jehovah Only, You stand as an opposer of God Himself, in line with many other opposers.

Secondly, revisit the earlier WT teachings:

“Although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper to do so; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him” (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1892).

Do you see that?  Nowhere in the Bible does it say we cannot worship Christ. 

“Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so” (Zion’s Watch Tower, 1898).

 “For this reason God has highly exalted him and given him a name above every name and commands that all creatures in heaven shall worship the Son as he worships the Father. Phil 2:5-11” (WT August 15,1941, p. 252)

Whosoever should worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah’s Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus…” (The Watchtower, 1945, p. 313).

Do you consider all JWs from that time period, as “false worshipers”?  Were they “opposers of God Himself” as you say I am?  How do you reckon with just this one of many changed teachings of your organization?  

A “true religion” is know by its “fruits” – its teachings.  The WT’s teachings have never been sound, they have never been reliable.  Jesus who provides Spirit to those anointed who “remain in him”, teach consistent truth.  If they don’t, they are “bad trees”, ready to be cut down and thrown in the fire.  Matt 7:15-20; 3:10; John 15:4-6

 "Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. ² Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God. ³ And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. ⁴ The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. ⁵ For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. ⁶ For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.  1 Cor 4:1-6 

You don’t see God’s glorious light reflected in the face of Christ, because your leaders, who have no spiritual conscience, have snuffed it out.  I am truly sorry. 

 

“Glory”, Pearl Doxsey 4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

[Witness]

45 minutes ago, Witness said:

Secondly, revisit the earlier WT teachings:

Here are a few more for you:

“Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah’s purpose (Heb.:3-6).” WT 1939/11/15, p. 339

“During the Millennium, “the princes will lead the people in their worship of Jehovah and of Christ.” Vindication Volume 3 (J. F. Rutherford, 1932) p.295

“The people of all nations who obtain salvation must come to the house of the Lord to worship there; that is to say, they must believe on and worship Jehovah God and the Lord Jesus Christ, his chief instrument (Philippians 2:10, 11).”Salvation (J. F. Rutherford, 1939) p.151

[the Sower of Seed]

10 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you see that?  Nowhere in the Bible does it say we cannot worship Christ.

Jesus is FIRST and FOREMOST One of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

You still cannot see the Heavens. JEHOVAH sets as the Almighty, Greater than all the stars of the universe joined as one

Jesus is as our sun.

There is one Divine Family, Jehovah the Father and countless sons, Jesus is the firstborn among millions of sons.

You are commanded to Worship the One Almighty God at Exodus 20:3 You must not have any other gods besides me. THIS MEANS DO NOT WORSHIP JESUS OR ANYONE ELSE!

You Hail Christ as a god in opposition to Jehovah

5 You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me, 

You have disobeyed the First Commandment and Exhort others to follow you as a False Worshiper

You twist the scriptures and complain about the organization doing God's Expressed Will.

The Eternal Torment will come as a Hailstone, then it will be too late to open your eyes and repent. The Revealed Truth will Torment You, you will not be able to justify it, you will not be able to escape it, though you try, you will not be able to hide from it, Torment will consume the False Worshipers until their end! 

[Witness]

44 minutes ago, the Sower of Seed said:

You have disobeyed the First Commandment and Exhort others to follow you as a False Worshiper

 

45 minutes ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The Eternal Torment will come as a Hailstone, then it will be too late to open your eyes and repent.

Well sir, you have just condemned millions of your past brethren.  It is confusing, isn’t it.  It can cause us to see red.  Satan easily takes truth and spins it into a lie, just as easily as he takes a lie and builds on it; giving it many different faces. 

46 minutes ago, the Sower of Seed said:

You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me, 

“No one that I knew about even questioned the appointment of Brother Knorr,” says C. W. Barber, “and everyone was determined to stand shoulder to shoulder supporting him and proving our devotion to Jehovah’s organization."  yb75 pp. 183-256

This is one reason why I left the organization.  I had fallen into idolatry.  I now give exclusive devotion to the Father in heaven and not to an earthly organization. Isaiah 46:5  I do not attach any earthly entity to my God. I do not bow down to men and their false doctrine. I obey the teachings of, and am devoted to, my King, Jesus Christ who is the "husband" of his Bride.  2 Cor 11:2; Rev 19:16; Rev 22:17

[Matthew9969]

5 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Jesus is FIRST and FOREMOST One of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

You still cannot see the Heavens. JEHOVAH sets as the Almighty, Greater than all the stars of the universe joined as one

Jesus is as our sun.

There is one Divine Family, Jehovah the Father and countless sons, Jesus is the firstborn among millions of sons.

You are commanded to Worship the One Almighty God at Exodus 20:3 You must not have any other gods besides me. THIS MEANS DO NOT WORSHIP JESUS OR ANYONE ELSE!

You Hail Christ as a god in opposition to Jehovah

5 You must not bow down to them nor be enticed to serve them, for I, Jehovah your God, am a God who requires exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation of those who hate me, 

You have disobeyed the First Commandment and Exhort others to follow you as a False Worshiper

You twist the scriptures and complain about the organization doing God's Expressed Will.

The Eternal Torment will come as a Hailstone, then it will be too late to open your eyes and repent. The Revealed Truth will Torment You, you will not be able to justify it, you will not be able to escape it, though you try, you will not be able to hide from it, Torment will consume the False Worshipers until their end! 

So Jesus is a JW also, so you expect he needs to go through  the watchtower for salvation, and worship the g.b.as he would worship Jehovah?

[the Sower of Seed]

5 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

So Jesus is a JW also, so you expect he needs to go through  the watchtower for salvation, and worship the g.b.as he would worship Jehovah?

Jesus spent 3-1/2 years teaching men about Jehovah's attributes.

Mtt.3:17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

4:4 But he answered: “It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth.’”

4:7 Jesus said to him: “Again it is written: ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’”

4:10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” 

20:23 He said to them: “You will indeed drink my cup, but to sit down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Mark 12:28 One of the scribes who had come up and heard them disputing, knowing that he had answered them in a fine way, asked him: “Which commandment is first of all?”29 Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah,30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’31 The second is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”32 The scribe said to him: “Teacher, you spoke well, in line with truth, ‘He is One, and there is no other besides him’;33 and to love him with one’s whole heart, with one’s whole understanding, and with one’s whole strength and to love one’s neighbor as oneself is worth far more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

Yes, Jesus directed all worship to Jehovah, to Him Alone. He taught us how important it is To Love Jehovah and Love our Neighbors. 

Jehovah's Witnesses praise Jesus for the Witness he gave and the pattern he set for all the True Worshipers to follow. We give our time, energies and possessions in imitation of him. We Love him for all he gave that we might have access to God in prayer. We honor him because he stayed faithful before the many mockers and those who abused him until his death. We hope to Worship Jehovah as perfectly as Jesus did then & does today! PraiseJah!