The heavenly resurrection begins after the fall of Babylon the Great

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Quote @JW Insider " But I'm sure you already realized that you don't need faith in a chronology to understand that our basic "truth" comes from the perfect example of Christ Jesus. "

Very true but one of the GB once said something like 'God and Christ trusts us'

In the opening talk of the March 2018 Broadcast, the theme of which was “In Whom Do You Trust?”, governing body member Gerrit Losch said the following:

“But Jehovah and Jesus trust the imperfect slave who cares for things to the best of his ability and with the best of motives.
Shouldn’t we then trust the imperfect slave as well?
To appreciate the extent of Jehovah and Jesus’ trust in the faithful slave, reflect on what he has promised its members.
He has promised them immortality and incorruption.
Soon, just before Armageddon, the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.
Since 1919 of our Common Era, the slave has been put in charge of some belongings of Christ.
According to Matthew 24:47, when the anointed are taken to heaven, Jesus will at that point entrust “all his belongings” to them.
Does this not reveal immense trust?
Revelation 4:4 describes these resurrected anointed as corulers with Christ.
Revelation 22:5 says they will rule, not only for a thousand years but “forever and ever.”
What immense trust Jesus shows toward them! Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust “the faithful and discreet slave,” should we not do the same?

Now it seems that many JWs do not actually trust the 'GB / Slave' but 'use' the CCJW just as a meting place or 'safe house'. 

Each of you here seem to be of your own opinion, so not actually believing the words of the GB, whom you would say are the F&DS. Sorry but it makes no sense to me to part of that Org run by people that you actually don't trust or believe in. 

Quote  "our basic "truth" comes from the perfect example of Christ Jesus. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. "

So therefore I'm not convinced that being a part of the CCJW is of help. 

@Anna said 

You asked about my viewpoint on those questions. I honestly don't know. And I really don't think it matters too much. It should not matter in view of what it means to be a true Christian. JW Insider pointed that out. A lot of the attitude now is "let's wait and see". The important thing is being found to be on God's side when it all goes down.

Anna I agree with you about being on God's side. However Jesus said 'Whoever is not against us is for us'. And Jesus spoke about a reward for those that helped the Anointed ones. Jesus did NOT say that they all had to belong to the CCJW 

So I am still keeping separate these two things : 1. Serving God through Christ.  2. The need to belong to the CCJW. 

And the more I read on here the more I can be sure that many JWs and doing both 1 & 2 BUT they are NOT doing 1. through 2.  

Therefore I see no point in being part of the CCJW as even long serving JWs do not trust it's leaders. 

Back on topic From my quote above, by governing body member Gerrit Losch

Soon, just before Armageddon, the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.

[Kosonen]

On 3/19/2020 at 8:46 PM, JW Insider said:

Is the Lion (Leo) the Devil.

Not necessary. To the opposit, I am sure you know that Jesus is called both the Lamb and the Lion.

Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me: “Stop weeping. Look! The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals.”:

[Kosonen]

On 3/19/2020 at 8:46 PM, JW Insider said:

How does a child test and verify that the sun actually traveled through this same set of constellations since you can't see the stars when the sun is out.

You can download a software that show this and then you can show it to a child.

[Kosonen]

On 3/19/2020 at 8:46 PM, JW Insider said:

Yet if we use scripture alone, we probably would avoid these fulfillments of scripture with astrological overtones:

Not really. Because God himself spoke to, for example Job about constellations. And how could David say that God had named every star? I believe David new names of stars and constallations Jehovah God had named.

 

[JW Insider]

7 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me: “Stop weeping. Look! The Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals.”:

Of course. But I purposely avoided the sacrilegious implication that Jesus has sex with the Virgin which then produces Jupiter, a.k.a., Deus Pater, the Father God.

7 hours ago, Kosonen said:

You can download a software that show this and then you can show it to a child.

But the child might play with the software and asks why it's not 12 stars of Leo, but only 9 stars in Leo and then 3 planets that happen to also land within the constellation Leo (as they do every few hundred years: 1827, 1483, 1293, and 1056). What if the child notices that Leo actually has 10 or 11 stars bright enough to have been included in its constellation outline? If you counted the 10 stars you would only need 2 non-stars (planets) to make up the difference, and this happens much more often. If you counted the 11 stars of Leo, you would only need to fake the number "12" with one additional non-star (planet), which happens every few years. If you knew that Leo is a constellation already made up of millions of stars, too dull to see without a telescope, you might wonder why they didn't include those millions of stars and forget about waiting for non-stars to make up a nonexistent difference.

And don't say it has to be only be a few of the most visible stars of Leo and that you can't use the technology of a telescope. After all, you can't prove this occurrence anyway without the technology of a software product. None of these stars and planets are visible to anyone when the sun is beneath Virgo's feet.

 Since we know that the supposedly difficult setup of adding 3 planets to only 9 of Leo's 11 major stars is just an arbitrary choice to make it seem like a sign, we really need only look at the idea that Leo's stars are always there, and that the sun and moon are beneath the Virgo's feet. That happens every September. In the U.S. they celebrate Labor day in September. Perhaps that's the birth reference, since she is in labor.

Also, the idea that Jupiter comes from Jesus' loins (more like the Lion's hindparts and skims the left side of the Virgin's "womb") is unrelated to any description in Revelation.

[Kosonen]

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

After all, you can't prove this occurrence anyway without the technology of a software product. None of these stars and planets are visible to anyone when the sun is beneath Virgo's feet.

I think Jehovah God had forseen that there will exist free software and computers and smartphones so that everyone who wants can easily confirm for themselves that the sign of the woman in Revelation corresponds to September 23, 2017. 

After all quite many find this to be an extraordinary coincidence that could just not have happened just randomly.

I really believe this gives us the time from when the war in heaven begun. 

And this corona virus seem to confirm that the 4 horsemen of the Revelation have begun their ride. Especielly the effect it has on the WT organization. Looks like Jesus as the rider of the white horse uses this corona virus to produce some organizatorial changes among the Jehovah's witnesses. I am very curious how this will help JWs spiritually.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

53 minutes ago, Kosonen said:

I think Jehovah God had forseen that there will exist free software and computers and smartphones so that everyone who wants can easily confirm for themselves that the sign of the woman in Revelation corresponds to September 23, 2017. 

If I could get over the stunned realization that you are SERIOUS about this .. I could have a have a good, long, extended, knee slapping, fall down and lie on the floor gasping for air crying jag belly laugh.

[Kosonen]

🤣@James Thomas Rook Jr. I am serious. And I am happy for you if you can get a good laugh from it.

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, Kosonen said:

After all quite many find this to be an extraordinary coincidence that could just not have happened just randomly.

I remember this exact same claim from someone I corresponded with years ago who was a big proponent of "Bible Codes" in the Hebrew Text. By skipping and choosing consistent numbers of Hebrew letters, she could prove that Jesus was in the Hebrew Scriptures in expressions that could translate to "Jesus is God" "Jesus is Messiah" etc.

Showing her how she was including the modern Hebrew text majuscules which were not in the original Hebrew text, but only in the Masoretic, was a worthless exercise. Showing her that, based on statistical letter frequencies, she was seeing what anyone would ordinarily expect statistically was also to no avail. (Among other arguments.) Most of the time you can't make any headway with persons who believe something ordinary is extraordinary. But I finally did the math and showed her that it was just as likely that we would find cases of "Jesus is Satan" "God is Satan" etc. She denied that this was even possible. Of course, if I had shown these examples to her instead of merely positing their existence mathematically, she would have still found a way to deny that they had any significance after being shown. But getting her to deny that such expressions could ever exist at all (using her same rules for "Bible Codes") was the key, as she had to admit it when it was proven later.

I'm saying this because I never really expect to convince the person who promotes ordinary things as if extraordinary. But it can sometimes help others "on the fence" avoid the same trap. It was a very unusual and unexpected experience to actually have been able to convince a strong and vocal Bible-codes proponent, in that case.

I see your view in almost exactly the same way.

[Kosonen]

40 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I see your view in almost exactly the same way.

Ok, no problem.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

because I never really expect to convince the person who promotes ordinary things as if extraordinary.

My favorite circuit overseer—an old fellow—long ago said that he doesn’t argue with trinitarians. “I’ve never convinced one,” he said.

I’m struck by the verse that has cropped up a few times recently on how ‘wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.‘ Trouble is, if you apply that verse to anyone, they just turn around and apply it to you, as Tom Henry discovers multiple times every week.

Let whoever it is be firmly convinced in his own mind’ Paul said somewhere. It will have to be one of those things you leave in God’s hands, and see whether the blessings flow to wherever you have chosen to be. To quote an odd expression of Jesus: ‘where the carcass is, there the eagles will gather.’ Fine carcasses where i hang out, I think.

My books—I think all of them—include contact information with the proviso that I’m not an arguer. “Sometimes people disagree. He can live with that,” I say in the third person of myself.

God knows if he is a trinity or not. For atheists, he knows if he exists or not. For characters here, he knows if he has a ‘true anointed’ to pull from his sleeve or not. He knows if he is going to have all the heavenly bodies stand on their heads so we can draw conclusions or not. He knows if his home base is a Facebook page or not. I’ll preach truth as I know it and throw all the rest on his lap. He can handle it.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

My favorite circuit overseer—an old fellow—long ago said that he doesn’t argue with trinitarians. “I’ve never convinced one,” he said.

I’m struck by the verse that has cropped up a few times recently on how ‘wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.‘ Trouble is, if you apply that verse to anyone, they just turn around and apply it to you, as Tom Henry discovers multiple times every week.

Let whoever it is be firmly convinced in his own mind’ Paul said somewhere. It will have to be one of those things you leave in God’s hands, and see whether the blessings flow to wherever you have chosen to be. To quote an odd expression of Jesus: ‘where the carcass is, there the eagles will gather.’ Fine carcasses where i hang out, I think.

My books—I think all of them—include contact information with the proviso that I’m not an arguer. “Sometimes people disagree. He can live with that,” I say in the third person of myself.

God knows if he is a trinity or not. For atheists, he knows if he exists or not. For characters here, he knows if he has a ‘true anointed’ to pull from his sleeve or not. He knows if he is going to have all the heavenly bodies stand on their heads so we can draw conclusions or not. He knows if his home base is a Facebook page or not. I’ll preach truth as I know it and throw all the rest on his lap. He can handle it.

Yes and God knows the heart of a GB member when he says about Covid-19, that he is not bothered by it, and he was expecting it anyway.

When his own brothers are dying in Italy it seems.. 

Yes i agree with that scripture ‘wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading and being misled.‘

Your Governing Body couldn't get much more wicked. Misusing people's pain and suffering to pretend it is a sign.. 

He (Almighty God) knows if he has a ‘true anointed’ to pull from his sleeve or not.  And you Tom, will have to make a decision when HE does it. 

The thing is Tom, you are part of admin on here, and can say whatever you like, but John Butler was d/fed from here for saying what needed to be said. So I will hold back on what needs saying here.