NAILS OR NAIL, HANDS OR WRISTS, AND OTHER SUCH SCRIPTURES. HOW DO CHRISTIANS KNOW WHAT IS TRUE ?

[Arauna]

23 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

because of @Arauna, you equate ALL JWs to be like her,

What is wrong with me?  please say honestly.  I will not take offence.....  I unfortunately do not have patience with those who have PROVEN themselves enemies of God.  These are not innocent people who have been misled.  They promote disobedience to God... their sin seems to be equal to that of Adam!

[Space Merchant]

11 minutes ago, Arauna said:

What is wrong with me?  please say honestly.  I will not take offence.....  I unfortunately do not have patience with those who have PROVEN themselves enemies of God.  These are not innocent people who have been misled.  They promote disobedience to God... their sin seems to be equal to that of Adam!

Because of how he can get a reaction out of you, and equates all JWs to be alike. He did not only do this with you, but to others, we the had the one instance with the JW teen, another with Allen, etc. - thus having a broken perception of things.

That being said, I, as do some, deal with such persons constantly, one sided, mainly when they know their err and soon expound on accusations without evidence or merit. Which is pretty much a shame, and downright embarrassing. All in all, it proves the point made many, many times.

[Arauna]

14 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Because of how he can get a reaction out of you,

Thanks for honesty!  I am South African - we always come over strong-like.  I do not get emotional about anything at all ( it may look that way), when he and those with hate-OCD say untrue things or accuse.  I recognize it for what it is - a useless exercise against Jehovah and his people!

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

They promote disobedience to God... their sin seems to be equal to that of Adam!

Adam was perfect, no one on this forum is perfect.  I would also like you to prove this accusation of people on this forum 'promoting disobedience to God'. 

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

I recognize it for what it is - a useless exercise against Jehovah and his people!

The fact that you and many others believe that the Watchtower / JW Org 'are God's people', does not in itself prove that they are God's people. 

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Because of how he can get a reaction out of you, and equates all JWs to be alike.

If you are refering to me, i am not concerned with 'getting a reaction' from anyone. I am interested in open debate.

Also, I do not equate all JWs to be alike.  That would be doing the same as some on here do about Ex-JWs. 

I do however think that all JWs believe the same things regarding their religion, otherwise why are they JWs ?  How could they preach and teach if they did not believe the same things ? 

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

If you are refering to me, i am not concerned with 'getting a reaction' from anyone. I am interested in open debate.

Because it is true. If it were not, it would not have been said.

You are not someone who is equipped for a debate(s), especially if it is solely Bible based, so do not ask for something you know you cannot handle, mainly towards someone who started off from CSE and debated a lot there for a time (as with Trinitarians irl in the post Bible debate era) this is evident by the questions addressed earlier, which was not answered, although they were very obvious - for we know what the Bible speaks of concerning marriage. Wild accusations and an appeal of motive also shows you are not capable of such, for the last debate here concerning religious leadership and or seat of office, the focus was on the Bible, but the common theme I see is they need to interject JWs or the Watchtower. Even with finances regarding bonds, Solutions to aid children, or that of the United Nations, JWs/Watchtower is always invoked.

So - be careful of what you wish for. I already have pity for the misguided because they do not know any better.

That being said, a debate is the last thing you need, and such will be left at that.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Also, I do not equate all JWs to be alike.  That would be doing the same as some on here do about Ex-JWs. 

Receipts can be found, and some people act upon something that they say they would not do at times.

Also be minimum discernment, you are an ExJW, thus it level you open to nearly everything, and more so, you do not deal with people who are at a certain level.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I do however think that all JWs believe the same things regarding their religion, otherwise why are they JWs ?

But even outside of belief, you speak of such. This is evident with the Strong's itself, or the very Hermeneutics of Scripture, like here, concerning Hands/Wrists, where you jump to the Watchtower with a total disregard to Concordances and what was concluded in the crucifixion.

We know by the concordances of what the Scriptures speaks of concerning those who or imprisoned, and how they are, as is with the way Jesus was handled. As stated, reading into things literally is problematic, which does not differ from the Trinitarians, Jehovah Warriors, KJV-Onlyist, who says Jesus is God because they see God mentioned close to the Messiah by name, when in reality, there is a distinction between God and Christ. Likewise with the nails being impaled into the Christ, we should look at the real meaning, as is historical depiction and the history of crucifixions as a whole, in this case, excluding the cross/stake notation since that isn't the focus.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

How could they preach and teach if they did not believe the same things ? 

So what is their view on where the nail has been placed? It isn't different from the majority.

If you want to talk about differences, there are those who take into account of dangers, and those that do not within Christianity. Just from your last response, this can be found concerning endurance and vigilance, of which the Bible states we must have.

That being said, you made the biggest claim of this month concerning a community, who contributes everything for lost souls, you were called to tasked to answer, you shying away from it only proves the point made.

Again, making a claim or an accusation about something of which you know nothing of is a huge mistake, and you never address you made a mistake most of the time. If you'd said that to said community in question, and the fact that you are a former Jehovah's Witness the reaction, for some of them will be colorful, mainly after what they contributed.

I still wait on the claim though, so I did not forget about that, for that is quite damning of an accusation.

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

What is wrong with me?  please say honestly.  I will not take offence....

Nothing at all wrong with you in my book, though I am surprised at the extent to which you lock horns with people who have proven conclusively for many months, even years, that they are not going to budge one iota.

Just above this comment, Patiently Sitting on my Hands wants you to “prove” something or other. The point is, it doesn’t work that way. “Prove to yourself” is how Romans 12:1 puts it, and he must prove it to himself, which he has abundantly demonstrated that Christendom’s hell will freeze over before that happens. 

“Taste and see Jehovah is good,” Ps 34:8 says, and for us, Jehovah comes part and parcel with his earthly organization. He has tasted and seen that he and it is bad—even the Name he discards. How can you “prove” to someone that their tastebuds are bad? If they don’t like it, they don’t like it.

I do sometimes comment where the bad boys and girls hang out, but it is usually in the sense of talking past them to the audience beyond who may be influenced by them. But when there is no other audience beyond other than ones exactly like them, then it seems you run the risk of violating Jesus’ counsel to leave blind guides be.

Lately I’ve been drawing away from this side of the forum in favor of the one where whatever you say is not instantly hurled back in your face with a very few arguments that you can answer till you’re blue in the face but they never change—they just repackage them and run them through again. Who would have thought that good @Annawould have provided respite? I was leaning this way even before Bro Spane’s talk—which is just a restatement of the same—and he just put more icing on the cake. 

Oh—and you’re a little given toward conspiratorial things, but that’s not a minus in my book. I appreciate the extra viewpoint. I don’t necessarily hold with it all, but on the other hand, it might turn out exactly that way.

Seriously, you are always welcomed for your insights on the closed forum and you won’t find fierce resistance to every syllable you utter.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I still wait on the claim though, so I did not forget about that, for that is quite damning of an accusation.

SM you write so much and repeat so much that is all becomes one big blurr. Like a train rattling along a railroad track. 

 

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

You are not someone who is equipped for a debate(s), especially if it is solely Bible based, so do not ask for something you know you cannot handle,

You see this. Do you see your attitude here ? Do you not get the sense that you are a bully ?  Are you so blind ?

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

 this is evident by the questions addressed earlier, which was not answered, although they were very obvious - for we know what the Bible speaks of concerning marriage.

And that is why they were not answered. Because they were so obvious that it would have been a waste of time answering them.  That isn't debate, that is stupidity. 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:45 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Now this is only ONE small portion of scripture. This portion is from the New World Translation written by the Watchtower Soc' / JW org, and approved by the GB of those orgs. And yet even JWs do not believe it. 

So how is a Christian supposed to 'study' God's word if that 'word' is not translated properly anywhere ? 

 

On 8/5/2021 at 4:45 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

People need to be able to trust what they are reading in God's word. But how can they if all translations are written according to the writer's own beliefs and agenda... If Strong's or any other, show that things can be translated in various ways, then how does the average Christian know which way is the right way ?

 

On 8/5/2021 at 4:45 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Remember Matthew 11 : 25 & 26

At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. ²⁶  Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.

Some of us are like young children. We are not wise and intellectual ones.  So, some of us need TRUTH to be simple. But 'religions' have made TRUTH to be difficult. 'Religions' have added burdens to even basic Bible study, by not translating it truthfully. Because 'religions' all follow their own agenda. 

Back on topic. Because the original topic was not ALL ABOUT 'nails and hands'. It was about Translations of the Bible.

However some on here didn't like that so they deliberately diverted the topic. 

[Anna]

29 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I was leaning this way even before Bro Spane’s talk—which is just a restatement of the same—and he just put more icing on the cake. 

Thank you for calling me good Tom. 

I have not listened to Br. Splanes talk yet, we were away and did not get to that part yet. Just getting around to watching the first part of the Daniel drama. But I have heard what it's about since when we got back home we joined our Saturday FS group as usual, this time for a review of the Saturday afternoon session. My hubby and I sat there like two numpties, since we had nothing to say. I did try and bluff though by looking down as if at my notes, lol. But I don't think anyone was fooled because usually we answer several times. Anyway, I look forward to listening to the talk, no doubt accompanied by accusatory sideways glances from my husband. I was thinking about you during the FS discussion, wondering what Tom thought of the talk....

[Space Merchant]

49 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

SM you write so much and repeat so much that is all becomes one big blurr. Like a train rattling along a railroad track. 

It is in regards to this you saying Truthers have no heart. The point I made about you making a claim and shying away from is a true statement. Even outside of that, the same game was done yet again.

51 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You see this. Do you see your attitude here ? Do you not get the sense that you are a bully ?  Are you so blind ?

You can't handle debates - truth, this is in regards to no attitude, it is truth. I can tell you this, I have been in many, many debates, granted CSE has its corner for debates and when I started, I made mistakes many, many times concerning history of Christianity, technically I was like you, it was only then I went to study up more, even told to do so because I was unable to handle the gravity of debates, and when I got back to debating months later, concerning the church and the Trinity and from there, I built off of that, years later, to present day, despite the fact I come from a heavy Biblical background, for the older I got, the serious I got about it. If an avid debater says you can't, just like how I was early on, it is truth. You need to do a lot more for the betterment for yourself if you seek debates, be in live, irl, forums, etc.

How is it bullying if it is truth? You said not too long ago the following:

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I am interested in open debate.

This is why I said be careful of what you wish for, for, if we debated about Hermeneutics, Dietary Laws, etc. It will not end well. That is why I suggested to you do research on core teachings.

58 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And that is why they were not answered. Because they were so obvious that it would have been a waste of time answering them.  That isn't debate, that is stupidity. 

Then you should not not brought up Romans 12:9, let alone what you said which had NO context.

When I said this:

On 8/7/2021 at 6:24 PM, Space Merchant said:

Although Apostasy, being an alienation from God, it can spell disaster in some instances.

You responded with this:

On 8/8/2021 at 7:25 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You are concerned what 'the cool folks' say ?  I prefer the words of the apostle Paul at Romans 12 : 9

"Love must be sincere. Detest what is evil; cling to what is good." 

Those in apostasy that roam in instances that spell disaster, even in the face of a faithful person, does not abhor what is bad. This is why the remark, by you, did not make any sense, hence why the question addressed.

Haters of God do not cling to what is good, they cling to what is bad, and they target those who worship God constantly, but to the faithful man, he knows what persecution entails.

Of course you see it as stupidity, but a wise man who attest to the truth. A wise man would not make an assumption without understanding. God's people, and his chosen would address the truth of the matter, even in the gospel ministry, also fact.

That being said, I believe the task of examination should be done on your part, JB.

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

However some on here didn't like that so they deliberately diverted the topic. 

I believe that was you, I only spoke to Linda James - evidence below

 

You also began quite early, as seen below:

 

As for your rehash of the topic, there are no translation errors in the verses mentioned SINCE there is no violation of text. It is more so a matter of if a word and or passage is in violation of the text or not, a single strong can have different words, and have different meaning depending on where it is use, however, if it is something totally different, as in the number, then you have a case. - A mic drop to that, case and point. There is no need to speak on the notation any further. This was dropped on the first page by@BroRando who quoted a CSE response concerning the subject matter.

[Thinking]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nothing at all wrong with you in my book, though I am surprised at the extent to which you lock horns with people who have proven conclusively for many months, even years, that they are not going to budge one iota.

Just above this comment, Patiently Sitting on my Hands wants you to “prove” something or other. The point is, it doesn’t work that way. “Prove to yourself” is how Romans 12:1 puts it, and he must prove it to himself, which he has abundantly demonstrated that Christendom’s hell will freeze over before that happens. 

“Taste and see Jehovah is good,” Ps 34:8 says, and for us, Jehovah comes part and parcel with his earthly organization. He has tasted and seen that he and it is bad—even the Name he discards. How can you “prove” to someone that their tastebuds are bad? If they don’t like it, they don’t like it.

I do sometimes comment where the bad boys and girls hang out, but it is usually in the sense of talking past them to the audience beyond who may be influenced by them. But when there is no other audience beyond other than ones exactly like them, then it seems you run the risk of violating Jesus’ counsel to leave blind guides be.

Lately I’ve been drawing away from this side of the forum in favor of the one where whatever you say is not instantly hurled back in your face with a very few arguments that you can answer till you’re blue in the face but they never change—they just repackage them and run them through again. Who would have thought that good @Annawould have provided respite? I was leaning this way even before Bro Spane’s talk—which is just a restatement of the same—and he just put more icing on the cake. 

Oh—and you’re a little given toward conspiratorial things, but that’s not a minus in my book. I appreciate the extra viewpoint. I don’t necessarily hold with it all, but on the other hand, it might turn out exactly that way.

Seriously, you are always welcomed for your insights on the closed forum and you won’t find fierce resistance to every syllable you utter.

 

We are all so different in personalities…( thank goodness) aruana you are fine the way you are…I would happily share a cell with you…I hope some of your answers as I hope all of us here…….have helped some one tuning in or perhaps that has been hurt or stumbled unfairly or wrongly..or simply know nothing about Jehovah’s witnesses….but it is a waste of time in talking with certain ones that’s for sure…and who has the energy in these last days or this period of time we live in….I’m tuning back in because SM has come back…and the quality of conversation has been lifted…pity he couldn’t be included in the JW Club….but he’s too honest to appear as an  alias….