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Brothers helping Brothers Jehovah be with them.


Red Kenwood

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9 hours ago, hgp said:

While you criticize them, thousands of Witnesses here in Poland (and other countries) work literally day and night to help tens of thousands of refugees. For free.

Feel free to build up your own organization that helps refugees better and faster and more fairly.

No really, show me how you do this better in the real world, not just in a discussion on the internet.

It's so easy to complain, that JWs are not perfect. It's not easy (in this case at least) to do much better. I don't see that you at least try.

That is good, I'd love to read the news stories about the watchtower doing this, esp. working with other religious institutions.

I live in the u.s., and have to stay here to help my elderly jw mother. But I and my church have provided charity here and around the world....FOR FREE.

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He knows. He's just being intentionally antagonistic. He knows it's logical to let Witnesses stay with Witnesses. He doesn’t want to admit the bond those of like mind and faith have, because he doesn'

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1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

That is good, I'd love to read the news stories about the watchtower doing this, esp. working with other religious institutions.

I live in the u.s., and have to stay here to help my elderly jw mother. But I and my church have provided charity here and around the world....FOR FREE.

That is very commendable…

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Am 11.3.2022 um 21:39 schrieb Matthew9969:

That is good, I'd love to read the news stories about the watchtower doing this, esp. working with other religious institutions.

I live in the u.s., and have to stay here to help my elderly jw mother. But I and my church have provided charity here and around the world....FOR FREE.

This doesn't answer my question: Where is your charity helping refugees from Ukraine in a better way than JWs? And if there isn't, why are you criticizing them?

And I think I'll ask you another question: Given that about 75% of all Ukrainians are orthodox Christians, why don't they flee to Russia and Belarus, where there is the world's largest community of orthodox Christians, probably more than 70million of them? That's a real and serious question that points at the elephant standing around in the room, being ignored by you.

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13 hours ago, hgp said:

This doesn't answer my question: Where is your charity helping refugees from Ukraine in a better way than JWs? And if there isn't, why are you criticizing them?

And I think I'll ask you another question: Given that about 75% of all Ukrainians are orthodox Christians, why don't they flee to Russia and Belarus, where there is the world's largest community of orthodox Christians, probably more than 70million of them? That's a real and serious question that points at the elephant standing around in the room, being ignored by you.

Help for Ukraine: 20+ charities on the frontlines - National Christian Foundation (ncfgiving.com)

Myself and my church give to some of these charities, and as you notice they don't limit their aide.

So I've shown you mine, now show me yours.....except it has to be from a 3rd party non-watchtower reporting service. As of now the only elephant in the room is your inability to back up your claim.

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vor 17 Stunden schrieb Matthew9969:

Help for Ukraine: 20+ charities on the frontlines - National Christian Foundation (ncfgiving.com)

Myself and my church give to some of these charities, and as you notice they don't limit their aide.

I don't doubt there exist charities. I don't even doubt that they are doing something to help. I doubt, that your criticism of JWs helping in their own way is justified.

There are about 200.000 JWs in the countries near Ukraine. It is absurd to believe, that they can accommodate 2.5million refugees. Yet you criticize them for not doing what clearly can't be done. In doing so you ignore the Bible (Galatians 6:10): "...let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith." Why would we ignore, what the Bible tells us?

And you ignored the point about the orthodox church. Trinitarian Christians have the belief in "one church" written into their apostolic confession of faith, but in reality they are happy to accept, that their "one Trinitarian church" is in reality divided into hundreds of churches along ethnic, racial, language borders and along theological disputes that they can't resolve for centuries. And they don't care that these groups are happily taking part in mass murder events called wars, where they destroy each other for the sake of their nations.

So they don't grasp the idea, that when the orthodox Christians from Russia are bombing Ukrainian cities, that it is the "one church" from their confession, that is taking part in murder and genocide of their own fellow believers. Ukrainians are not fleeing to Russia, because their Russian brothers from the same orthodox Trinitarian faith are out there to kill them. And Trinitarians seemingly are happy to ignore this problem. All the while JWs are persecuted in Russia exactly because they don't participate in this madness. If all Trinitarian Christians would behave as JWs, then there would not be any war in Ukraine and no one would have to flee.

In the light of this much larger problem I choose to ignore your criticism of how we handle the help of your fellow Trinitarians' victims. Trinitarians, go and do something about your fellow believers killing each other. And after you accomplished that, then you can come back and lecture us about how we should help their victims.

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Yes, I like this comment from hgp very much. It’s an entirely valid way of looking at things. Jehovah’s Witnesses are united. Churches (in almost all cases typified by trinitarian belief) are not. If they were, Russia’s “trinitarian” soldiers (the vast bulk of the Russian population holds to the ROC faith, though they’re not necessarily active) would simply not turn weapons upon their fellow Christians. 

Only this bit of hyperbole undermines the remark some:

1 hour ago, hgp said:

And they don't care that these groups are happily taking part in mass murder events called wars, where they destroy each other for the sake of their nations.

They’re usually not “happy” about it. But they do it nonetheless, and that makes the point even more powerful. The Witnesses’ love for God and fellow man, fortified by a united human organization, prevents them from picking up arms against their fellow man. Many there are in ‘Christendom’—perhaps even most, who are basically decent people, desirous of peace. But because they don’t have the same principles and unity of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the national ‘king’ finds them easy to maneuver to support whatever is the warlike project of the day.

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12 minutes ago, hgp said:

On reflection

Nor would any Witness ever attack Matthew’s people, those meeting refugees at the border with aid. We don’t attack his people, yet he attacks ours!

On the American news network last night was a man, he looked middle Eastern, (American news is always very careful to point out people’s ethnicity) who at his own expense was distributing hot drinks and food to refugees from his own food truck. We would never criticize such efforts. The man deserves nothing but praise. Yet Matthew is incensed that there should be Christians who allow themselves to be guided by the verse you pointed out, Galatians 6:10): "...let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith." That Bible verse seems to really bother him.

The most criticism Jehovah’s Witnesses will ever make of the effort Matthew rightly holds in high esteem is that they are, at best, stopgap efforts. Adopting the Jehovah’s Witness view of life will stop wartime suffering. Adopting his view of life will not.

The refugee system is overwhelmed. Somewhere I read that Brits are being asked to take refugees into their homes. How can anyone not admire the generosity of those who actually do? Nothing but praise for them here. Yet—it is easier said than done. Taking people from the general population into your home, you don’t know what you will get. Will it be a story of pure human altruism? Hopefully yes. But there will also be some who…

Alcoholism is rife today, as is drug usage. Have you ever had an alcoholic in your home? You’ll find you can quickly become an enabler. Your fine qualities will not rub off on him/her as much as his corrosive qualities will undermine your household. Suppose you find that your new guests do not live by Bible sexual morality. Will you have a problem with that under your roof? There is even the distinction between “each will carry his own load” while we “carry the burdens of one another.” Those trained by Bible principles know the difference. While grateful that their brother should share their burden, they work toward carrying their load as soon as possible. Many non-Witnesses will do this too, yet it cannot be assumed, just as the alcohol, drugs, and morality issues cannot.

There really is value in having “left the harmful way.” Jehovah’s people, with minor allowance for human imperfection, have done that and endeavor do continue doing that. They get the sense of Jesus words that the world has been judged for its opposition to God as is slated for destruction by God’s approaching kingdom. The vast majority of religion, however, does not get the sense of it. Their goal (is it that of Matthew’s church?) is to save the world, to fix it. Jesus’ position is “to come out of it.” Only from that advantageous position can one effectively lend a helping hand. For this reason Jehovah’s people will help the general populace as the occasion arises, but they rightly focus on following Paul’s counsel to above all help their own brothers.

Even during times of war, even when physical help is appropriate, the best help you can offer people is the teaching of God’s promises is in Bible (which silly people call “recruiting”) Thereby you find that by teaching the best way of life you have “taught persons how to fish,” as well as conveyed what works best for resiliency during dangerous time. Nothing but praise here for rendering help to people indiscriminately. But surely to condemn Galatians 6:1 is taking matters too far.

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6 hours ago, hgp said:

In the light of this much larger problem I choose to ignore your criticism of how we handle the help of your fellow Trinitarians' victims. Trinitarians, go and do something about your fellow believers killing each other. And after you accomplished that, then you can come back and lecture us about how we should help their victims

Still waiting for your 3rd party truth. It would be horrifying if each individual denomination would only help their own specific denomination, and much more chaotic. Most of the individual soldiers I believe mostly are Catholic, I am not catholic, they are not adopted into the family of God, neither are jw's. 

When I started a bible study again several years back, my conductor at the time and I discussed 9-11. He made a very strong statement that if there was a natural disaster and if he saw his neighbors house damaged and heard his neighbor screaming for help, he had to ignore the neighbor and do what ever he could to reach an elder and head straight to the kingdom hall. I had a problem with this reasoning and so he told me I would have to agree to this too if I was interested in progressing any further.

Well you guys aren't doing much in stopping war or stopping people from killing others, heck even some of your own brothers have killed innocent people, even pregnant women and children.

Lastly, the jw's are an off shoot of the bible students, which were an off shoot of 7th day Adventist. Even jw's have had different denominations stream from them, so jw's aren't an exclusive group.

Gonna stop with you now, your deflecting the conversation into other subjects.

So again, please provide proof jw's are helping non-jw's and/or working with other religious organizations to provide aide to all.

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