Open Club, Private Club, JW club

[JOHN BUTLER]

2 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Your mistaken Butler, I enjoy your comments, aside from the child abuse which is a serious matter, your understanding of scripture is an enjoyable experience and humorous. But, if you are allowed to insult, be aggressive, why not others, that's my outtake.

Other do insult. i've been called many different things. I take as good as i give. I don't think I'm aggressive, i think I'm assertive, but you may think as you wish of course. Space Merchant would often put me in my place and he has such a good memory too. TTH has been known to tell me off often. It's a forum, it's the internet, it is the nature of the beast. Enjoy.

I mean no harm to any individual. I'm not one of those that goes out and protests in a nasty way, nor do i set fire to Kingdom Halls. Such action is horrible and i am totally against it.  Although, once again, my name gets mixed in with people that do those things.  But i can assure you i do not get involved in any protests at all. My only 'protesting' is on this forum, because  I cannot talk to those i wish to, due to being shunned. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@JW Insider It's called being light hearted.    No point being angry about other people's viewpoints. 

Billy the Kid and I seem to disagree on most things, but it's not a problem for either of us it seems.  

[Anna]

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So the 'loyal club' does exist. Such a shame that they cannot face truth as it is now. So easy to hide behind closed doors. 

It's called the "closed Club" . Are you able to read the rules of the club? If yes, then you will notice you do not qualify. That's just life John, and that is the prerogative of the club's owner. He can determine who gets to join. I can't join our local golf club, because I don't qualify. As for your other sentiments, well you are assuming a lot. You have no idea what we cover in there.  Same goes for @Shiwiii just assuming things. But that seems to be what you guys do.

[Anna]

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 

But of course some of us will be spoken about in your 'posh' private club. So be it. It seems you need to regroup to think up moe rubbish to hide the faults of your GB and you JW Org.  Cowards, but there you are. 

God will, when He is ready, sort out the Org and the GB. Just as He sorted out the Pharisees. So it's not really a problem for me.

Finding real truth is more important to me that worrying myself about people that bury their heads in the Org. 

As far as I am aware we haven't mentioned you once John, sorry.  But we can change that, how about the topic "John the cry baby"  . And you are funny with your assumptions. You don't take a break. 

Remember though that members of the "closed club" still comment here too.

[Anna]

Just in case anyone is interested here are the 'closed club' rules:

• This club is intended for active publishers associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses only. Anyone who does not fall into this category will be denied membership.
• Members should keep in mind that an opinion on something of a doctrinal nature that is not in line with current understanding does not mean that the current understanding is wrong. Therefore it’s not necessary to take offense, or start defending current understanding just for the sake of it, without actually presenting a reasonable counter argument.  
• Members must realize that one of the objectives of this club is that members should feel comfortable expressing their ideas and discussing things which can be viewed as controversial, as long as these do not become dogmatic and/or are aggressively promoted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it works both ways.
• Biblical principles to keep in mind: (2 Timothy 2:23-25) Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights. For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged,  instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed..
• (Titus 3:9, 10)  But have nothing to do with foolish arguments and genealogies and disputes and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man who promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition
• (1 Peter 3:15) . . .always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.
• (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine.
• (1 John 4:1) Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
• Not allowed: obscene, vulgar, and/or hateful talk, racist remarks, ad hominem attacks (against anyone, which includes the GB), trolling, and links to apostate websites.

[TrueTomHarley]

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are you afraid to deal with a man that can actually stand on his own ?

Not hardly!! Did you take note at how I knocked the formidable JTR out of the ring? I’ll have you for lunch!

 

By the way, I’m reading a new author of science fiction, Darth Dethway. In a very exciting chapter, the evil alien says:

”Surrender, earthlings! You have no chance!   Zip...zero...nada!”

Do you think?

[JOHN BUTLER]

11 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I believe that was my point. What makes you different from others that you are here while others are gone.

Sorry Kid i don't quite understand where you are coming from.

That i am here, is because I want to be here. I have no idea why others are gone. 

I suppose I will not be here if / when @admin decides to remove me.

Are you saying that Admin 'disfellowshipped' others or that they 'faded' from the forum ?

I came here for two reasons. The most important one was looking for 'truth'. 

The second reason was to give warning to anyone that would listen. 

I found no truth of course, only bickering between people that want to look clever. People such as yourself, lining up dates/years like bottles to be shot off of a wall. (see your above commnet). 

And although many of you deny that the things I mention are happening within the JW Org, I've made things known, as have others, so the option is then yours and others to choose how you handle the warnings. 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Not hardly!! Did you take note at how I knocked the formidable JTR out of the ring? I’ll have you for lunch!

 

By the way, I’m reading a new author of science fiction, Darth Dethway. In a very exciting chapter, the evil alien says:

”Surrender, earthlings! You have no chance!   Zip...zero...nada!”

Do you think?

Dream on Tom  

[JOHN BUTLER]

6 hours ago, Anna said:

Just in case anyone is interested here are the 'closed club' rules:

• This club is intended for active publishers associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses only. Anyone who does not fall into this category will be denied membership.
• Members should keep in mind that an opinion on something of a doctrinal nature that is not in line with current understanding does not mean that the current understanding is wrong. Therefore it’s not necessary to take offense, or start defending current understanding just for the sake of it, without actually presenting a reasonable counter argument.  
• Members must realize that one of the objectives of this club is that members should feel comfortable expressing their ideas and discussing things which can be viewed as controversial, as long as these do not become dogmatic and/or are aggressively promoted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it works both ways.
• Biblical principles to keep in mind: (2 Timothy 2:23-25) Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights. For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged,  instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed..
• (Titus 3:9, 10)  But have nothing to do with foolish arguments and genealogies and disputes and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man who promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition
• (1 Peter 3:15) . . .always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.
• (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine.
• (1 John 4:1) Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
• Not allowed: obscene, vulgar, and/or hateful talk, racist remarks, ad hominem attacks (against anyone, which includes the GB), trolling, and links to apostate websites.

Boring boring boring. But it's a hiding place for you all I suppose. 

Frightened of someone that is a bit assertive (not aggressive). 

A place to have your ears tickled. I think that is mentioned in God's word. 

I agree that arguments are pointless, but a bit of lively discussion never hurt anyone  

And at the very end I laughed to read 'No one is allowed to talk against the gods' sorry the GB.

[JW Insider]

Because @JOHN BUTLER brought up some speculation that Armageddon is likely far off, I mentioned the following:

15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

And it must be just as wrong to speculate that it must happen before the deaths of the entire second group of anointed who overlapped with an earlier group of anointed who would later admit that they misunderstood what they saw happening in 1914.

@BillyTheKid46 responded:

15 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Perhaps there are older JW’s that have understood what 1914 represents and has always represented. That’s why it’s necessary to demonstrate the difference between early Zion Watchtower works with what the Watchtower is today. Totally different understanding with the same goal of 1914. 😉

When I responded to BillyTheKid, I ended up taking a part of this discussion far off the original topic, and there were several more posts that veered to this topic. Some contained intriguing content. However since they are off topic, I am going to move them under new topics. The original topic about the problem with the updated definition of the "generation" is in one new topic, here, and these other points by BillyTheKid will be under another topic:

 

For reference, these are the responses from THIS topic that will be discussed in the new topic here:

14 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Then you have plenty of work ahead of you. Not that it’s going to matter, but if you really were a faithful witness, the generation referred in the Zion Watchtower talked about before and after 1914 with the earthly saints.

Some critics back then thought Russell was only looking to fulfill a literal amount of 144,000 then quit looking. A question arose as to what would happen to the faithful after the 144,000 saints were acquired.

It’s not that difficult to understand. But as you stated” Perhaps, but it's not obvious yet to me.” This is cynicism that doesn’t prove anything by personal opinion.

This is why there is a difference between Jesus presences in 1874 to that of enthronement, taking his rightful seat in 1914.

No one before 1914 would literally see judgment day. That doesn’t mean they wouldn't be included as the other sheep with an earthly hope after 1914. The teaching back then as a backdrop was and still is, once you die, you go to heaven. Where is your adjustment on that? 

And this one:

13 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I believe you are the one that pointed to 1874 as an absolute instead of a transition or inspection as it were.

And this one:

12 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I hope to God you will one day understand the significance of 1914. The misapplication of The Bible Students analogy however different end up being the same, but with less clutter.

In order to understand, you would have to investigate what the prelude was in 1874, 1878, 1881, 1898, 1901, 1904, 1906, 1910, 1911 or wait that’s a firearm, 1913, 1914, 1915, and their correlations. What was the experience between 1916-1919?

Russell, while still learning was insightful. There are many publications to research.

-----

Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1915, with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's Word.

STUDY IV

THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES

What are Gentile Times?—Their Beginning; Their Length; Their End A.D. 1914—Attendant Events—Events to Follow—Literal and Symbolic Time—A Remarkable Type—Present Indications—God's Kingdom to Overthrow Gentile Rule—Therefore Organized Before It Ends—Before A.D. 1914—Why Opposed by Gentile Kingdoms—How and Why All will Finally Accept it Joyfully—"The Desire of All Nations Shall Come."

Was he talking about an earthly kingdom? No that came from opposers in his time. Did it mean the world would end in 1914, No, that’s an ex-WJ’s excuse and those that oppose the Watchtower? The coined phrase " SETTING UP OF THE KINGDOM" means what?

The time stamp, meant, preparation for Christ to take his rightful place in Heaven and enthroned at the appropriate time.

---

But if you are one of those that only believe in one 1260, then it won't make a difference, and there's no reason to debate it here or in a closed forum.

 

[JW Insider]

14 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I believe you are the one that pointed to 1874 as an absolute instead of a transition or inspection as it were.

I managed to move all the other posts on this topic to a new thread, already mentioned. I didn't move this particular one, however, because it includes more about the topic of emojis than about chronology.

14 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The other, you must admit it’s a normal emoji used by everyone.

True it's a normal emoji used by everyone. I'm happy with it, and I use it myself.

14 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

That’s better than downvotes I would think.

Not necessarily. Some people are probably very concerned about the number of upvotes and downvotes they get. Personally, if someone wants to downvote a post of mine, I'm interested in what they are downvoting. Sometimes, I might post only Scripture and I get downvoted by another Witness. I know this doesn't necessarily mean they don't like the Scripture, but it must mean they don't like my application of it. If I say something in a post that is wrong or needs correction, I'm even more interested in a downvote, and I hope the downvoter will explain themselves.

But using the normal "HaHa" emoji as an alternative to a downvote is more ambiguous. Of course, if something was meant to be funny, then the HaHa emoji is perfectly understandable, and that's not an alternative to a downvote. So it's interesting that you admit that the HaHa emoji is being used as an alternative to a downvote. When a post is completely serious and a person uses a HaHa emoji as a downvote, then it sounds more like a snide, scornful sneer, right? But if they truly thought that something serious actually sounded funny to them, then the emoji is ambiguous unless the person explains their use of it.

14 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I really didn’t experience AllenSmith34 perhaps as well as you, but given the atmosphere here, I can’t understand why this person was removed. That’s my point in this.

I can understand easily why he was removed. It was clearly stated by the admin/moderator and was very much related to the verse I quoted:

• (Proverbs 22:10) . . .Drive away the scornful man, And contention will disappear; Disputes and insults will cease.

But I disagree that it should have been done, permanently at least, considering, as you say, the atmosphere here. I've already explained why under previous topics. Mostly because it's too difficult to be consistent and fair to every participant. And I don't think it's fair to wipe away someone's "good" history, along with their "bad." It's almost a perfect analogy to the proverb about the baby and the bathwater.

14 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Nevertheless, by you personally posting my comments with emoji’s, doesn’t that constitute poking fun at my expense?

I merely went to your profile and displayed exactly what was showing up there at the time. It doesn't constitute poking fun unless you think that what you were doing was ridiculous. For all I knew you might have been very proud of your posts and reactions to other posts.

14 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

With that, Why single me out?

It wouldn't have been fair to AllenSmith34 to imply that he was the only one who used the "HaHa" as an alternative to a "downvote" to such an extent. As I recall, he used this method at least TEN TIMES more often than anyone else here. At present, I'd say that you use this method at least TEN TIMES more often than anyone else here. At the rate you are going, there is a good chance you may even pass his record.

[Matthew9969]

My thought on this is this forum is much better moderated than a few other forums I've been to, Topix being the worst. I like it here.