Jump to content

JOHN BUTLER

Apostles, Judas, GB, Raymond, Satan, Holy Spirit

Topic Summary

Created

Last Reply

Replies

Views

JOHN BUTLER -
Space Merchant -
430
5453

Top Posters


Recommended Posts


1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

You and your kind have lost the right to criticize the Watchtower as a faithful member.

Mr Felix.

John Butler and other ex-JW people are Gained their right to speak openly about WT (to share Critical Thoughts) with a Day of Personal Awaking and with a Day of leaving JW community !! 

I have to remind You how every "faithful member" aka JW member does not have and will never have any "Right", Permission and Free Will  to "criticize" WT. Because of reasons:

1) he/she is "faithful member",

2) JW member will be disciplined if would dare to "criticize" or to put complain about WT,

3) hierarchical structure and Doctrines in WT gives no space for "criticizing" or for Critical Thoughts.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FelixCA said:

Unless you are going to argue like JWinsider with wordplay with the phrase " The Herald of Christ Presence " as it's also known by.

Not really the point I was making. I advised an "ambiguity"check because I thought the abbreviation you used for this journal to be a little unfortunate given the context of the discussion. I am not going to be any more specific.

14 hours ago, FelixCA said:

The Herald of Christ Presence is the longest running BS magazine

ambiguity

Dictionary result for ambiguity

/ambɪˈɡjuːɪti/
noun
  1. the quality of being open to more than one interpretation; inexactness.
    "we can detect no ambiguity in this section of the Act"
    synonyms: ambivalence, equivocation; More

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Dear Sincere Person:

The only thing you're sincere about is saving your skin! Nevertheless, here's how you do it.

You start with the well-known verse in Mathew:

Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.     Matt 24:36

That’s Good Tom. You follow the same pattern of logic as the Watchtower. They don’t specifically state anyone given time. The most they will do is in keeping with “readiness at any hour” by Mark 13:33, and Matthew 24:42.

No different from the “the parables of the ten virgins” described by the Bible Student era with Matthew 25:13

Keeping a watch and staying alert with the signs of the times keep faithful servant alert and ready for the unknown. 1 Thessalonians 5:2, Matthew 24:43, Revelation 16:15 Does that mean living in fear, only foolish people would suggest that. Is it referring to our personal lives, or is scripture referring to something other than what might happen within a generation, or is it something more personal like staying awake and being alert with our spirituality. Something that will have a more profound impact even after death.

The Watchtower has shown the closeness each generation gets to the conclusion of this old system. Unfavorable people like to think there are hidden messages. That, of course, is concocted in their own minds.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

I thought the abbreviation you used for this journal to be a little unfortunate given the context of the discussion.

I believe JWinsider is Bible Student bashing. How is that not part of the discussion, when the inference is there? Can I be more specific? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

John Butler and other ex-JW people are Gained their right to speak openly about WT (to share Critical Thoughts) with a Day of Personal Awaking and with a Day of leaving JW community !! 

I have to remind You how every "faithful member" aka JW member does not have and will never have any "Right", Permission and Free Will  to "criticize" WT. Because of reasons:

This is why, I have every right to call you for what you are, and what you stand for. I believe that wasn't always the case here. Maybe it still isn't if I get erased along with my comments.

One being, a false perception you have about JW members and free will. God gives us free will as NOT to cause strife or divisions among the brotherhood. Who are you to speak against God's inspired words?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FelixCA said:

You keep saying it doesn’t matter. Yet you’re a creature of habit to keep bringing up the past as though it has somehow been a mistake.

I gave two reasons why it does matter. Like TTH I don't do dates. There have been several persons who came on the forum to advertise their predictive prowess with prophecy. I think the same thing about all of them. I think it's both dangerous and un-Christian to do dates.

2 hours ago, FelixCA said:

It’s your personal opinion that the Watchtower has erred.

It's not my personal opinion. It's a fact. The Watchtower has claimed that they erred on this matter. So if they didn't err, then they erred in claiming that they had erred.

2 hours ago, FelixCA said:

You have made yourself a “messiah” to proclaim your false understanding and your false teaching with anything related to the Watchtower.

You have a much overblown opinion of my opinions.

2 hours ago, FelixCA said:

Therefore, with the presentation offered by JWinsider proves one thing, distortion of facts, just like Raymond, since he is offering no scriptural proof, just overdrawn conclusions on what he personally thinks the Watchtower publications are conveying.

There could be some truth in that. This is why I am always happy to have any supposed "facts" checked. It's a good reminder that even when I quote the Bible or the Watchtower publications or any reference work, I am still presenting an opinion overall as I might not understand the actual meaning of what I'm quoting. This is true no matter how much it might look like facts, and no matter that it makes use of actual facts. Based on the nature of many of the topics that I choose to discuss, I should probably remind everyone, again, that I only consider my posts to be my opinion about things. And often it's just an opinion about someone else's opinion. I might express my opinions strongly when I have no doubt about it for myself, but this doesn't mean that anyone else needs to take my opinion so seriously.

So, yes, these are conclusions on what I personally think the Watchtower publications are conveying. You are correct.

I can't say that I know exactly what an "overdrawn" conclusion is. It's an expression I had never heard until a conversation with Allen Smith, but I never asked him what it meant. Perhaps you can tell me. If not, perhaps BillyTheKid could tell me, since he just used the expression less than two months ago.

On 12/19/2018 at 3:02 PM, BillyTheKid46 said:

So, the library card being scrutinized by opposers is a failed attempt to justify an overdrawn conclusion.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, FelixCA said:

I believe JWinsider is Bible Student bashing. How is that not part of the discussion, when the inference is there? Can I be more specific?

I certainly hope you can be more specific. Otherwise, your accusation is just another empty claim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FelixCA said:

They don’t specifically state anyone given time. The most they will do is in keeping with “readiness at any hour” by Mark 13:33, and Matthew 24:42.    No different from the “the parables of the ten virgins” described by the Bible Student era with Matthew 25:13

FelixCA, Just in case anyone gets the impression that this is true, it might be interesting to look at what the Watch Tower publications said, which makes me question your claim. It sounds like you are claiming that the Watch Tower publications do not state any one given time, and this is no different from the way the "parable of the ten virgins" was described in the Bible Student era. Feel free to correct me if it is wrong. It's not too far off topic. It even references the 6,000 years from Adam and its relationship to the beginning of the Millennium, etc.

As I understand it, the Watch Tower publications initially thought that the difference between the foolish virgins and the wise virgins was based on the criteria that the foolish virgins had foolishly given up on chronology after the Great Disappointment of 1844. A "Midnight Cry" went out at some point in the "night" between 1844 and 1874, initially thought to be at the midpoint, around 1859, when Nelson Barbour first recognized and thereafter declared that William Miller had been off by 30 years. The lamps of the virgins had to burn for another 30 years. But the foolish virgins who gave up on chronology had let their lamps run out of oil, which was obvious because they wouldn't believe in 1874.

It seems to me that the parable was considerd to be all about the time period from 1874 to 1881, the seven years period before the "door was shut" on October 3rd, 1881. (A door of "mercy" could still be open, even if the full number of Christ's Bride would have been chosen by October 3rd 1881.)

I'll quote from one of a few articles on the topic from the Bible Student era Watch Tower magazines. The following, until the end of the post, is from the

    Hello guest!
, beginning on page 288:

"AND THE DOOR WAS SHUT."

. . . The parable of "The Ten Virgins" (

    Hello guest!
) . . .  "Then shall the kingdom of heaven (church) be likened unto ten virgins which took their lamps (Bibles) and went forth to meet the Bridegroom" (i.e.,) they went forth or separated themselves because of their belief that the Bridegroom, Jesus, was about to come.

While we are neither "Millerites" nor "Adventists," yet we believe that this much of this parable met its fulfillment in 1843 and 1844, when William Miller and others, Bible in hand, walked out by faith on its statements, expecting Jesus at that time. . . .

The disappointment of that company of Christians (which was composed of many of the best Christians from all denominations) all are well aware of, but it was foretold in the parable: "While the Bridegroom tarried they all slumbered and slept." As a general arousing of the church to the investigation of God's Word had attended the preaching of Mr. Miller, and the Word was more studied than ever before, especially the Prophecies, so when his calculations seemed to end in such bitter disappointment, a spirit of drowsiness followed; some slumbered, some slept . . . .

The next important step of the parable (verse 6) is the midnight cry. The night of the parable was the time during which the disappointment lasted and the sleeping occurred, and was to end with joy in the morning, when, the tarrying being ended, the Bridegroom would be present.

As the former movement in the parable had been represented by Miller and others, so to this second movement we give a similar application. A brother,  B[arbour]_ of Rochester, was, we believe, the chosen vessel of God through whom the "Midnight Cry" issued to the sleeping virgins of Christ, announcing a discrepancy of thirty years in some of Miller's calculations, and giving a rearrangement of the same argument (and some additional), proving that the night of the parable was thirty years long, and that the morning was in 1873, and the Bridegroom due in that morning in 1874.

We do not here give the time, arguments or proofs. They are familiar to many, and can be had in more convenient shape. We merely notice here that the Bible chronology, first dug from Scripture by Bowen, of England, which shows clearly and positively that the 6,000 years from Adam ended in 1873, and consequently that there the morning of the Millennial day (the seventh thousand) began, in which a variety of things are due. The establishment of the kingdom of Christ, the binding of Satan, the restitution of all things, and the blessing of all the families of the earth, are all due. And if all these things are due during this thousand years which commenced in 1873, surely one of the first things due and on which the others all depend, is the coming of the Bridegroom, who must first exalt his church [establish his kingdom] before it can bless, restore or bind.

Bro. B[arbour]_____ first began to preach the message, and soon started a paper, which he appropriately called "The Midnight Cry," the circulation of which soon ran up to 15,000 copies a month, and served to arouse many of the drowsy to a fresh examination and trimming of their lamps. These began again to search the Scriptures for the time of the Bridegroom's coming.

But the disappointment had served an intended purpose in casting a reproach on the subject of "time," and the prudent ones had reached the worldly-wise conclusion that having been disappointed once and consequently had the finger of scorn pointed at them, they would be more prudent in future, and not expose themselves to contempt; so there was a division of the company; some could see it and others could not. ("Thou hast hid these things from the (worldly) wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.") Some rejoiced in the midnight message that the Bridegroom was due in 1874, and were able to find the evidences in the light of their lamps; others admitted that though Scripture contained a great deal of "time," yet they were so fearful and prudent that their lamps would give no light. Thus they said: "Our lamps are gone out." Thus one separation took place.

When 1874 came and there was no outward sign of Jesus in the literal clouds and in a fleshly form, there was a general re-examination of all the arguments upon which the "Midnight Cry" was made. And when no fault or flaw could be found, it led to the critical examination of the Scriptures which seem to bear on the manner of Christ's coming, and it was soon discovered that the expectation of Jesus in the flesh at the second advent was the mistake; that the human nature had been taken for the purpose of giving a ransom for humanity, and that the human nature remains a sacrifice forever; that Jesus, though put to death in the flesh, was quickened or made alive in spirit—Sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body, &c., and that all spiritual bodies can be present unseen. . . .

It was evident, then, that though the manner in which they had expected Jesus was in error, yet the time, as indicated by the "Midnight Cry," was correct, and that the Bridegroom came in the Autumn of 1874, and he appeared to the eyes of faith—seen by the light of the lamp—the Word. Afterward it was seen that the thirty years of tarrying between 1844 and 1874 was the exact parallel to the thirty years of tarrying at the first advent, from the time the wise men visited the babe until Jesus stood on Jordan and was anointed with the Holy Ghost for his work, at thirty years of age. (

    Hello guest!
.) . . .

To return to the parable. If these movements were of God, and if Bros. Miller and B__________ were his instruments, then that "Midnight Cry," based on the prophetic and other statements and evidences, was correct, and the "Bridegroom came" in 1874. We believe that Midnight Cry was of God, and was fulfilled by the Bridegroom's coming, not because Bros. Miller and B__________ claimed it, but because the Word of God supports it.

"How firm a foundation, ye saints of the Lord,
Is laid for your faith in His excellent Word."

. . . The going in, like all other features of the parable, is a work of time, and we understand that it has been in progress during the seven years from 1874. . . .

The seven years which ended October 3d, 1881, were years of favor during the presence, that of the living generation all of readiness of heart might become members of the little flock and enter into the joys of our Lord's presence. If our application of Scripture be correct, the favor has now ended, and in the language of the parable, "the door was shut"; and to those who have never fully consecrated and sacrificed self to God, we cannot any longer hold out the great prize of our high calling, viz.: to be members of the Bride of Christ, joint heirs of Glory, Honor and Immortality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s where I got it from. I guess that makes me space merchant for using “that being said” or that said. You are definitely showing signs of a mental breakdown. Just don’t jump off the tower to have people blame the Watchtower for your instability.

Especially when you first suggest it doesn’t matter, then it does matter. Coherency is lacking. Spend time with Butler, just maybe he can knock some of the realism back into your life. But don’t worry, I don’t buy into anything you have posted as fact. It’s your perception of fact. It’s the perception of what some will agree with you, is fact. The Watchtower published a book of errors to appease those harden critics that believe as you do. It is demonstrating how a publication can be taken out of context, as it's done here with the many distortions.

The “Clarification of Our Beliefs” Does not constitute what you are offering.

 

THE PURPOSE OF THIS PUBLICATION

“Jehovah God urges his people to “keep searching” for understanding and discernment as though they were looking for “hidden treasures.” (Prov. 2: 1-5) This means that we need to exert ourselves in searching for answers to our Bible questions and in finding help for our personal concerns in life.

This Research Guide for Jehovah’s Witnesses is designed to assist you in your search.”

 

Therefore, the only thing dangerous and un-Christian is people like yourself. What did TTH say, in the end, you adhere and support those in charge? That's funny, in what universe. 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, FelixCA said:

You are definitely showing signs of a mental breakdown.

LOL. I got so confused when both TTH and I used the word "shrill" within a couple days of each other. I started thinking maybe Allen Smith was right after all when he used to say I was the same person as TTH, among several others. I think Allen could have tried to convince me that it was just him and me running the entire forum.

52 minutes ago, FelixCA said:

Especially when you first suggest it doesn’t matter, then it does matter.

I never said it doesn't matter. You either forgot what I said, or made it up, or I forgot what I said. Or I could have said something you misunderstood. Even so, I accept that it matters very much to me that we don't "do dates." But I would only impose this on myself, I don't think it matters so much that I should impose my view on others in the congregation. But I'm happy to present how much it matters to me if called upon to do so.

52 minutes ago, FelixCA said:

The Watchtower published a book of errors to appease those harden critics that believe as you do. It is demonstrating how a publication can be taken out of context, as it's done here with the many distortions.     The “Clarification of Our Beliefs” Does not constitute what you are offering.

The "Clarification of Our Beliefs" does not have anything to do with what I was referring to. I was referring to specific admissions of past errors about dates in several other specific places in the Watch Tower publications. In addition, I was also referring to specific things that the Watchtower admitted can be dangerous and un-Christian, including 'serving with a date in mind.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you two still going on ? And my name keeps getting mentioned too :) 

Yes TTH is a GB's man and a JW Org's man.  Does he say "support those in charge " ?  Who and in charge of what ?

They can't be in charge of God or Jesus Christ, and they shouldn't be in charge of the Anointed. 

That only leaves them being in charge of an Organisation. The Pope is in charge of an organisation too, doesn't make him right does it ? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Butler,

Ah! Yes, the voice of reason. Don’t worry Butler. I won’t continue a meaningless debate. One, of many speculations made by Raymond Franz that are being accepted by spiritually weak people.

A good research point would be with Pastor Russell’s Photo-Drama. I don’t know if the Bible Students finished the restoration or the Watchtower for all that matter. But the last time I looked, the Bible students did “some” restoration in 1992-93.

The original nitrate films are in such a state that they cannot be projected normally and video-taped. Consequently, they had to be copied, one frame at a time, manually, onto 16mm movie film (Kodachrome). The resultant copy was used in the production of the video-tape of the Photo-

Drama. The following listing details the contents of the video tapes of the Photo-Drama of Creation which were assembled between November, 1992 and March 6, 1993. Several of the films have not passed through my hands yet (if they exist at all), therefore, this production is not the complete eight hour production. There are more music records, which go along with films; however, since the films which these records support are missing, the records are not included.

It’s a shame if the whole presentation can’t be restored. This just proves, maybe there is something more to the Photo-Drama than meets the eye.

The point would be, there were different factions within the Bible Student association. Just like each congregation functioned independently from the Tower.

Do some Bible Students of today support Adventism, Yes they do. Are there some Bible Students that still have creationist views? Yes, there are.

CREATION—-Mosaic Account.

Q197:1 QUESTION (1911)—1—Do you believe in the Mosaic account of creation?

ANSWER—We believe the divine revelation, and if we had no Bible we think it would be proper to look for one. We could not imagine that a great loving Creator would have a plan for his creatures, bring them into existence, and not provide some revelation respecting his will regarding them. So that even when I had thrown away my Bible, when I did not know its value, I got to looking for a Bible somewhere and I searched amongst all the heathen religions to see if I could find one any better than the one I had thrown away, and I found nothing nearly as rational, nearly as reasonable, as the Bible when I understood it. We believe its account of creation is the only authorized account

At a first glance. It seems Russell was a creationist. That he believed the account of Genesis was made up in 6 days and on the 7th day God rested were accomplished in 7000 years.

The problem there, what was Russell actually saying. He was using the same starting point from, CREATION of ADAM to 1873AD to mark the end of the 6th day. Using the 1000 year computation.

The same inference depicted by the Watchtower for 1975. So, was Pastor Russell “really” saying creation was made in 6000 years? Was he referring, each creative day was 7000 years, which would mean, Genesis creation took 42,000 years or was he emphasizing man’s existence.

The First Day or Epoch

"Let there be light! and there was light." Thus, briefly, is summed up the result of the 7,000 years, styled the First Day. Not that God's Word would not have been sufficient for any miracle, but because He prefers to work out His glorious designs along natural lines.-Genesis 1:3… We follow the theory that each of the Seven Days of the Creative Week was a period of seven thousand years. This, seven times seven thousand, equals forty-nine thousand (7x7,000=49,000) years, ushering in a grand Jubilee Epoch.

STUDY II

BIBLE CHRONOLOGY

Chronology Necessary to an Understanding of Prophecy—Indispensable Data Furnished in the Bible—From the Creation of Adam to A.D. 1873 was Six Thousand Years—A Statement of Bible Chronology in Great Periods—Its Examination in Detail—From Creation to the Day the Flood was Dried Up—To the Abrahamic Covenant—To the Giving of the Law—To the Division of Canaan among the Tribes—The Period of the Judges—The Period of the Kings—The Period of the Desolation—To A.D. 1873—Wherein this Chronology Differs from that of Bishop Usher, Noted in our English Bibles—The True Date of our Lord's Birth.

Therefore, can people honestly claim, Pastor Russell, overshadowed creation by suggesting creation took 6000 years as creationist do, or was he’s understanding an explanation that reflects after creation to man’s existence? People that argue the Bible Student era, fail in two points. First, not fully grasping what the intent was, and second, to make The Bible Student era in its infant understanding and claim it’s still accepted by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

JW’s understand the creative day can have an infinite number, not 49,000 years. It’s disingenuous and false to think, Russell was a creationist by referring to the Genesis account of creation as 6000 years.

Therefore, NO! today’s Watchtower has not erred in any of the claims made. These separate issues are still being combined as usual.

I left the word "week" up for scrutiny, just in case more wordplay is given.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, FelixCA said:

So, was Pastor Russell “really” saying creation was made in 6000 years? Was he referring, each creative day was 7000 years, which would mean, Genesis creation took 42,000 years or was he emphasizing man’s existence.

The New Creation, Studies in the Scriptures, is not so different than what was continued until the 1970's and proposed again in the 1980's:

We believe our readers will agree that although the length of these epoch-days is not indicated, we will be justified in assuming that they were uniform periods, because of their close identity as members of the one creative week. Hence, if we can gain reasonable proof of the length of one of these days, we will be fully justified in assuming that the others were of the same duration. We do, then, find satisfactory evidence that one of these creative "days" was a period of seven thousand years and, hence, that the entire creative week would be 7,000 x 7 equals 49,000 years. And although this period is infinitesimal when compared with some geological guesses, it is, we believe, quite reasonably ample for the work represented as being accomplished therein—the ordering and filling of the earth, which already "was" in existence, but "without form [order], and void [empty]." . . .  Evening and morning, Day Six, at its close, 42,000 years after "work" began, found the earth ready for man to subdue. . . .

Edited to add that the December 1912 Watch Tower also explained it similarly:

Six great Thousand-Year Periods or Days have passed since Adam was created, according to Bible chronology. We are now in the dawning of the great Seventh Day or Sabbath Day of human experience. God has promised that this Seventh Day of a thousand years will be very different from the preceding Six Days, in which mankind has experienced a reign of Sin and Death. The Seventh Day of a thousand years is Scripturally called the "Day of Christ," and by many it is styled the Millennium. In it Satan and Sin are to be overthrown, righteousness is to be established by the Redeemer, and mankind, purchased by the precious blood at Calvary; are all to have full opportunity for arising from present degradation to re-attainment of the image and likeness of God, lost in Eden by Adam's disobedience.

The Seventh Day of the Creative Week began with Adam's creation and has already lasted six thousand years, and is to be completed with the thousand years of Christ's Reign. The Seventh Creative Day will be seven thousand years long. Whoever sees this to be a reasonable deduction can easily suppose that the six preceding Days of the Genesis account were, likewise, seven thousand years each. Reckoned thus, the total period from the time that Divine Energy began to operate upon the waste Earth down to the time when the whole work of creation and Restitution will be fully completed, would be 7 times 7,000 years, or 49,000 years.

According to the Bible, that time will be a thousand years hence, when The Christ shall have accomplished His work for mankind to the full and shall deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father. At that moment the fiftieth thousand-year period will begin, with every creature in Heaven and on earth ascribing praise to Him that sitteth upon the Throne, and to the Lamb, forever. How appropriate this will be, especially when we recall that in God's arrangement fifty is the greatest climax of numbers! In Bible usage the number seven is symbolical of perfection, and 7 times 7 represents a completeness of perfection; and the fiftieth or Jubilee following is climacteric.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, FelixCA said:

The Watchtower has shown the closeness each generation gets to the conclusion of this old system. Unfavorable people like to think there are hidden messages. That, of course, is concocted in their own minds.

Sometimes you make me think you have been living under a rock. I don't know what you mean by unfavorable messages, but it is clear that every Witness generation has been living with the thought that "our children won't make it to high school", it doesn't matter whether this is the 20's 30's 40's..............80's 90's.... you get my drift. Perhaps this is a good thing as it keeps everyone on their toes, but it can also backfire, like crying wolf one too many times. 

Being ready at all times doesn't equal putting a date or time period on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Anna said:

but it is clear that every Witness generation has been living with the thought that "our children won't make it to high school", it doesn't matter whether this is the 20's 30's 40's..............80's 90's....

not only high school but also primary school. :))

only do not know was this sort of thinking characteristic for Whole people in specific JW generation or one part of people in that generation :)) 

Up-vote!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Anna said:

but it is clear that every Witness generation has been living with the thought that "our children won't make it to high school", it doesn't matter whether this is the 20's 30's 40's..............80's 90's.... you get my

I ‘m not sure I would fit it in, or that I could integrate it with everything else, but there is a part of me that wants to introduce a family of dimwits, proud of the fact that with them the ‘prophecy’ has held true for over a century.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, well, to me it’s all meaningless. I can enter an apostate website like JWfacts, or AD1914 and copy that garbage of what these people think the Watchtower is conveying. I, however, do diligent research.  It’s been a battle between creationist and evolutionist how long it has taken the earth to form. The evidence proves what the Watchtower indicates between creation by God and the origins of the universe. Evolution, Natural selection, the big bang theory, Science.

So, excuse me if I don’t buy into your understanding. Why would the watchtower find it a need to publish the book's creation (ce) and “life-how did it get here? By evolution or by creation” in 1985 after the 1967 book, did man get here by evolution or by creation?

*** w85 6/1 p. 7 Adam and Eve—Myth or Reality? ***

 

Wisdom of the World or Wisdom of God?

The French Jesuit priest Teilhard de Chardin brought about one of the biggest changes in Catholic thought. He considered evolution to be a gradual climb to a spirit existence. According to his theory, life forms evolve, passing through the animal and human stages, being finally destined to become united at a focal omega point—Christ. Although initially condemned by the church, the theory gained the approval of many Catholic ecclesiastics. However, it was clearly contrary to Scriptural evidence and heaped reproach on God himself, denying the necessity of the ransom for humans to recover perfect human life.

 

creation.jpg

 

Recoiling from these conclusions are the "scientific creationists." But their interpretation of the Genesis creation account has led them to claim that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that the six "day’s allowed in Genesis for creation were each only 24 hours long. But does such an idea accurately represent what the Bible is saying? Was the earth, and all its life forms, created in just six literal days? Or is there a reasonable alternative?

AS WITH other things that are misrepresented or misunderstood, the first chapter of the Bible deserves at least a fair hearing. The need is to investigate and determine whether it harmonizes with known facts, not to mold it to fit some theoretical framework. Also to be remembered, the Genesis account was not written to show the "how" of creation…The first part of Genesis indicates that the earth could have existed for billions of years before the first Genesis "day," though it does not say for how long. However, it does describe what earth's condition was just before that first "day" began:”

 

creation.jpgcreation2.jpg

Perhaps you need to reacquaint yourself with the Watchtower publications in order to find other avenues to criticize the Org, by your personal perception on how you think the Org is wrong and only you are right.

So, far, you have TTH, comfortmypeople, JTR, Butler, Srecko, Anna holding on to every fiber of your words and false demonstrations.

Remember, TTH believes you’re an excellent writer. Such people do tend to make believers of those that are weak minded. So, the only ones living under a rock are those that want to believe in conspiracies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Forum Statistics

    60,057
    Total Topics
    109,368
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    16,194
    Total Members
    1,592
    Most Online
    Vinod
    Newest Member
    Vinod
    Joined




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.