Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?

[HollyW]

6 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Just another little history lesson:

Knocking on doors

Perhaps the most conspicuous of Christmas-shunners are Jehovah's Witnesses, millennialists whose ranks include 1.9 million members in the United States. Although the group initially observed Dec. 25 as a holiday, church spokesman J.R. Brown said from the church's Brooklyn, New York, headquarters, further study by one official in

When did the reformation of Jehovah's Witnesses began? 1931. So you are still talking about the Bible Student Movement while I'm referring to the change, that you people so hate, and complain about.!!!!!!!!!

Allen, it was just a name change in 1931.  They were the same folks who had been celebrating Christmas as Bible Students.  When did the WTS start separating itself from its own history?  It sure doesn't do that in the 2014 book, "God's Kingdom Rules" nor in their brochure https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jehovahs-will/bible-truth-rediscovered/ which refers to the Bible Students as your predecessors, the ones you say Jehovah was blessing with spiritual insight to "rediscover" what the Bible really teaches.

[Shiwiii]

14 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

10 Q. Well, that's what I'm driving at. Perhaps you can
11 address that question specifically, which is this: is
12 there a scriptural basis to that policy or practice, being
13 not to report child sexual abuse allegations to the
14 authorities unless required by law to do so?
15 A. Thank you for the opportunity to explain this.
16 I think very clearly Mr. Toole pointed out that if the
17 Australian Government, in all the States, was to make
18 mandatory reporting, it would make it so much easier for
19 us.

This portion of the transcript confirms exactly what I said, They would rather have to be forced to contact authorities then change their policy. This proves that they know the policy is flawed, but are reluctant to change it. 

[HollyW]

49 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

You continue to see it as just a name change. By your standard of looking at things, we are still Bible Students then. That is the impression you are suggesting to the people.

 

Some modern day bible students still celebrate Christmas and they still hold the gold crown and cross as their symbol.

 

Without you falsifying the ideologies, are they the same? Or are you going to continue to hide behind your own lie. The WTS appreciated what Pastor Russell started. His portion of reformation will have a tie to our continued effort to push forward with bible truth. Jehovah’s Witnesses expanded (progressed) to a better understanding, which you are failing to see and deny.

 

History of the Bible Students

 

 

 

A BRIEF HISTORY
of the
NEW ALBANY- LOUISVILLE ECCLESIA
(CONGREGATION OR CHURCH)
and the
BIBLE STUDENT MOVEMENT

 

Russell, Charles Taze, (1852-1916).

 

Known as Pastor Russell, Religious leader, the founder of what is commonly called the Bible Student Movement, born in Pittsburgh, PA. As a Congregationalist, he struggled with the concept of eternal torment, his subsequent Bible studies leading him to conclude that the Biblical hell is oblivion, that the Millennium began in 1874, and that a period of social and political upheaval would lead to a peaceable kingdom on Earth. After his death, many followers abandoned his Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (1879), which under the leadership of Joseph Rutherford moved in other directions and ultimately became known as Jehovah’s Witnesses (1931).

 

* * * * *

 

Note that Pastor Russell had formed a service organization, The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. It cannot be over-emphasized that the purposes of this society at that time were only to provide a source of helpful literature, to provide a clearing-house for the exchange of ideas and the arrangement of conventions for mutual fellowship and edification, and to provide a center from which world-wide witness activities could be launched. The Society was not, and was never at that time considered, as a headquarters or central authority for the Bible student congregations. As the Cambridge entry points out, however, this all changed after Pastor Russell’s death, and the current Society of the same name (as well as the group known as Jehovah’s Witnesses) has virtually no similarity to, nor philosophical connection with, the Society of Pastor Russell’s day. Claims of the Witnesses and of various historical entries notwithstanding, Charles Russell is NOT the founder of Jehovah’s Witnesses NOR of the practices and concepts of the current Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Those who know his works and principles know that he would be appalled to be connected with such things.

 

I've never actually encountered a JW who so readily goes against WTS teaching by trying to throw Russell under the bus.

Even though they don't claim JWs, current Bible Students claim Russell and his Bible Students as their predecessors, just as JWs do.  You've quoted from a current Bible Students web page which shows they do and I linked you to the WT brochure which shows JWs do.  And it's not just in the JW brochure but throughout WTS publications references are made to the JW beginnings in the 1870's as Bible Students.  Even the current identity of the faithful slave goes back to before Rutherford instituted the name change.

I have not told any lies and I ask that you stop with the personal insults.  If that's the only way you know how to discuss your religion, there's no point in continuing any discussion with you.

 

[HollyW]

13 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

This portion of the transcript confirms exactly what I said, They would rather have to be forced to contact authorities then change their policy. This proves that they know the policy is flawed, but are reluctant to change it. 

Shiwiii, that's a good point.

[JWTheologian]

Allen, I understand the necessity to point out the flaws and misapplication of people that only focus on one small part of something, rather than the entire picture to hide their own fallacies. By those standards. The “entire” world is flawed. Pity, they don’t seem to see their own flaws, when they misinterpret someone else's thought.

[Melinda Mills]

Try to learn something.

The Bible shows that the first human pair were perfect.

(Genesis 1:27-31) And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. ²⁸ Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.” ²⁹ Then God said: “Here I have given to you every seed-bearing plant that is on the entire earth and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. Let them serve as food for you. ³⁰ And to every wild animal of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have given all green vegetation for food.” And it was so. ³¹ After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.

(Deuteronomy 32:4)  4 The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he.

Since Jehovah God is perfect, how could his creation not be perfect? If someone who creates says he is happy and satisfied that his work is good, who in their right mind would want to argue with that?

(1 Corinthians 15:45) So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

This scripture alludes to the first perfect man Adam (who did not stay perfect) and it also refers to the last perfect man to walk the earth, Jesus, who was resurrected as a perfect life-giving spirit .

(1 Peter 3:18) For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

We must pray for understanding of God's Word, as Satan seeks to blind us. (2 Corinthians 4:4) We must apply what we learn to ourselves.  Use the time to learn God's will, get close to him and not just to confound others. Time is flying.  Apply John 17:3 - Jesus prayed about its importance. Time for humility.

 

 

 

[Witness]

5 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

JWT: People here set themselves above Christ, and Gods judgement. That’s why Blasphemers of the Holy Spirit will be marked and known to the world. Even if they pretend to be soft spoken and intelligent with their rhetoric. They believe that hiding behind this facade gives them more credibility.

 

We might consider just who is hiding behind a façade.  

Some of your words:  It is up to the body of Elders to use their “BEST” judgment on how to proceed with a sensitive matter. Even the ARC was blinded by ignorant opposers. Ex-witnesses that called and emailed them, by thinking…this would be the end of the WTS, they attempted to sensationalize a situation that ultimately the ARC found out it was full of “Lies” and “distortions” just like you are deceptively portraying now.

So unless you have personal knowledge on what goes on behind a judicial committee, STOP speculating. You are clueless, on what an Elders responsibility is toward the flock with such matters that require wisdom and discernment. The Governing Body can’t be everywhere. The flock book, is a general guideline book, for Elders to understand or have a basic concept on how to proceed with matters.

It seems more important to defend the GB and the elder body than to come to aid of, or feel remorse for, victims in over 1000 alleged cases not reported in one country alone. Would there be a reason to defend such failed attention to the flock if Holy Spirit was guiding the leaders?  John 16:30; 2 Pet 1:3

"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him."  James 1:5

Whatever GB Jackson said in his deposition to his defense makes no difference in rectifying the damage already done, and still being committed.  If policy must continually be changed, what is the underlying cause if not because of a lack of Holy Spirit?  Would Jackson need any help from a government to make “mandatory reporting” if one truly followed Christ’s teachings?

“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.”  Matt 5:20

Rom 13:1 – “Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.”

“Then Pilate said to Him, ‘Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?’ Jesus answered, ‘You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above.  Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.’  John 19:10,11

The WT uses 1 Cor 6:1 as one of their reasons for not reporting such a crime.  By checking the Greek word for “dispute” used here and in other scriptures, “pragma”, it’s use is concerning smaller affairs, transactions, business matters, things, deeds, and NOT something as serious as child abuse.  The GB willingly adheres to the scripture Deut 19:15, but GB Jackson refused to recognize Deut 22:25,26 as a vital one to consider.

Stewart -  “Is it not the case that had Jesus been asked about a case of sexual abuse, he may have referred back to this part of Deuteronomy and said that it’s not required to have two witnesses?”

Jackson -  “I certainly would like to ask Jesus that, and I can’t at the moment, I hope to in the future. But that’s a hypothetical question which, if we had an answer, then we could support what you said.”

If the words spoken in Deuteronomy are from God, why the hesitancy to consider them?  Why chose one verse in this book, but not consider another?  Jackson’s own stumbling over Stewart’s question shows the lack of God’s blessing in wisdom that a genuine anointed in Christ would be aware of, if they are truly still one in Christ. 1 Cor 10:6-12  To allow such evils to be committed, time and time again, shows a huge glitch in the system, and that glitch is the absence of Holy Spirit.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.  John 14:26

 Whenever God’s people worked in harmony with his will, blessings were rich in all matters of their life.  The flock was protected by the knowledge God gave his priesthood and their leaders.  Deut 24:8; Mal 2:7; 2 Chron 35:3

“Does any one of you who has a dispute with another dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones?”  1 Cor 6:1

While this scripture is given credence to the elder body in decision making, is the elder body comprised of God’s holy anointed ones – his chosen priesthood? 2 Chron 23:6; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 8:5

“Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.  Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.  For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.  Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.  For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.”  Rom 13:1-7

It appears, that the GB’s refusal to consider all scripture shows that the primary concern of the organization is its own worldly outward appearance and their struggle to keep up a frontage of cleanliness; caring not for what happens to God’s sheep.  Jer 23:2; Isa 1:17; Eccl 4:1

“Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
Who write misfortune,
Which they have prescribed

To rob the needy of justice,
And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
That widows may be their prey,
And that they may rob the fatherless. Isa 10:1,2

He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just,
Both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord.  Prov 17:15

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!

 Woe to men mighty at drinking wine,
Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink,
 Who justify the wicked for a bribe,
And take away justice from the righteous man!  Isa 5:20-23

Christ’s commandments are based on love, love expressed toward his sheep. 1 Thess 4:9; 1 Pet 4:8; John 13:35  Through the blessing of Holy Spirit, love is made manifest in one’s heart.  If the leaders of the organization  worked in harmony with Christ and his love, there would be no question on how to deal with such offenses.  Did Jesus ever hesitate?

“But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?”  1 John 3:17

 

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/who-really-is-matt2445.html

 

 

 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

Try to learn something.

The Bible shows that the first human pair were perfect.

(Genesis 1:27-31) And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. ²⁸ Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.” ²⁹ Then God said: “Here I have given to you every seed-bearing plant that is on the entire earth and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. Let them serve as food for you. ³⁰ And to every wild animal of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have given all green vegetation for food.” And it was so. ³¹ After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.

(Deuteronomy 32:4)  4 The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he.

Since Jehovah God is perfect, how could his creation not be perfect? If someone who creates says he is happy and satisfied that his work is good, who in their right mind would want to argue with that?

(1 Corinthians 15:45) So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

This scripture alludes to the first perfect man Adam (who did not stay perfect) and it also refers to the last perfect man to walk the earth, Jesus, who was resurrected as a perfect life-giving spirit .

(1 Peter 3:18) For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

We must pray for understanding of God's Word, as Satan seeks to blind us. (2 Corinthians 4:4) We must apply what we learn to ourselves.  Use the time to learn God's will, get close to him and not just to confound others. Time is flying.  Apply John 17:3 - Jesus prayed about its importance. Time for humility.

 

 

 

Absolutely not. If Adam were perfect, not only would he not have sinned, just like Jesus who was perfect, but he would also not need a "helper" to complete him as stated in Genesis 2. Why would God say that it is NOT good that Adam was alone? The key words are, God had called His creation of Adam,  good...very good, but nowhere does God state perfect. Good, not perfect

[Melinda Mills]

You don't seem to get anything, do you. Your eyes are blinded. Why are you working so hard on this site.

 

[Queen Esther]

2 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Try to learn something.

The Bible shows that the first human pair were perfect.

(Genesis 1:27-31) And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. ²⁸ Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.” ²⁹ Then God said: “Here I have given to you every seed-bearing plant that is on the entire earth and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. Let them serve as food for you. ³⁰ And to every wild animal of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have given all green vegetation for food.” And it was so. ³¹ After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.

(Deuteronomy 32:4)  4 The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he.

Since Jehovah God is perfect, how could his creation not be perfect? If someone who creates says he is happy and satisfied that his work is good, who in their right mind would want to argue with that?

(1 Corinthians 15:45) So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

This scripture alludes to the first perfect man Adam (who did not stay perfect) and it also refers to the last perfect man to walk the earth, Jesus, who was resurrected as a perfect life-giving spirit .

(1 Peter 3:18) For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

We must pray for understanding of God's Word, as Satan seeks to blind us. (2 Corinthians 4:4) We must apply what we learn to ourselves.  Use the time to learn God's will, get close to him and not just to confound others. Time is flying.  Apply John 17:3 - Jesus prayed about its importance. Time for humility.

 

 

 

Very  good,  sister  Melinda  ;o)

[Queen Esther]

31 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Absolutely not. If Adam were perfect, not only would he not have sinned, just like Jesus who was perfect, but he would also not need a "helper" to complete him as stated in Genesis 2. Why would God say that it is NOT good that Adam was alone? The key words are, God had called His creation of Adam,  good...very good, but nowhere does God state perfect. Good, not perfect

HEY....  ADAM  WAS  PERFECT,  JESUS  OF  COURSE  TOO !!

Jesus  was  MORE  perfect,  bec. JEHOVA'S  LONG  TIME  LOYAL  SON  ---

Adam  was  perfect,  but  got  weak  about  his  wife  Eve....

We  all  know,  how  strong  can  be  Satan's  power !!

JESUS  COULD  SEE  SATAN'S  INSIDE  DOINGS  !  THATS  FACT....

Adam  not  could  see  that  all.....   so  he  sinned !

 

[Shiwiii]

55 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

HEY....  ADAM  WAS  PERFECT,  JESUS  OF  COURSE  TOO !!

Jesus  was  MORE  perfect,  bec. JEHOVA'S  LONG  TIME  LOYAL  SON  ---

Adam  was  perfect,  but  got  weak  about  his  wife  Eve....

We  all  know,  how  strong  can  be  Satan's  power !!

JESUS  COULD  SEE  SATAN'S  INSIDE  DOINGS  !  THATS  FACT....

Adam  not  could  see  that  all.....   so  he  sinned !

 

You Cannot Have A Lessor perfection, It Either is or Is not.