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TrueTomHarley

The Incredible Desert Find: the Sinaiticus Sheepngoats, Destined to Update the Bible Canon

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31 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are you totally bored too ? 

Actually this serves to banish boredom.

And in a strange sort of way, I offer this as a Bible teaching tool. Most people quote a verse here or there from Galatians (sometimes I think the guy that invented numbered verses should be hung on a gallows) but if you asked them what the overall book was about, they wouldn’t have a clue. Now they will.

I can picture anyone with sufficient time on his hands reading Galatians 5:12 and saying ‘he said that?’ Of course, he did not, but what he did say was not totally from another planet.

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Ah so you were bored but not now :) 

And I agree with you about numbering verses. I'm probably as guilty as anyone for taking a vese out of context. 

When we look at Paul's writings as the letters to congregations that they were, the we get a much better meaning from them. 

I would have loved to have met him. A man that wasn't frightened to speak his mind. Not all mamby pamby like the JW Org pretends to be. 

I've always found that the Org here in UK tries to act toooo posh. 

There was an old Elder in the Honiton congregation and he was an ex farmer. Henry was his name.

He would pronounce Honiton as Onitun, and Exeter as Hexeter. Poor man was always being told off by other Elders. But it was him, his character, the man he really was. But it was easy to see the other Elders didn't like it. 

It was so easy to see, and so funny, that congregants would put on a posher voice in the KH. Then once outside or away from the hall, even on the ministry, then would be back to their 'real self'. 

In my opinion God does not want posh. Jesus did not chose posh people for his disciples / apostles.   

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I love it. Galatians is about the best book to do that with because it's so dramatic.

43 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

but what he did say was not totally from another planet.

True. There are several widely published translations that don't veer too far from your version here, at least in places.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

it does serve to convey the basic idea of the entire Book of Galatians.

It can actually do "double-work" as commentary.

47 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I can picture anyone with sufficient time on his hands reading Galatians 5:12 and saying ‘he said that?’

Some widely used translations are rather jarring here with expressions like: "I wish the knife would slip."

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22 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It can actually do "double-work" as commentary.

I liked that Paul was largely autonomous for 17 years. I guess that I had imagined that he had marched to the territory servant the moment Ananias left him.

And yet he was not really independent. When he did touch base, it was “for fear that somehow I was running or had run in vain.”

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

And yet he was not really independent. When he did touch base, it was “for fear that somehow I was running or had run in vain.”

That's how I had always read it, too. But there is also a strong possibility that he really means that he wanted to be sure that everything he was doing was not being undone by these superfine apostles from Jerusalem (like James, Peter, and John). James and Peter had influence outside of Jerusalem, obviously all the way up to Galatia, where James sent people to undermine Paul's work, and Peter actually visited himself and ended up setting a bad example for the brothers, there.

Under another topic you already responded to some of these points, but I'll pick up on them again here.

Remember, too, that Peter was a big influence in Corinth, too, so that some were saying they belonged to Paul, Apollos, or Cephas. Paul drops several hints even in Corinthians that the superfine apostles included the "James gang" and others from the "Jerusalem party."  It was easy for the Corinthians to see these apostles appointed by Jesus as a kind of Governing Body representing themselves as THE (superfine) FAITHFUL STEWARD. So Paul made a point to them that he was not a steward that needed such a human "tribunal."

(1 Corinthians 4:1-3) . . .A man should regard us as attendants of Christ and stewards of God’s sacred secrets. 2 In this regard, what is expected of stewards is that they be found faithful. 3 Now to me it is of very little importance to be examined by you or by a human tribunal.. . .

It's also pretty clear that Paul is speaking of this same tribunal that he speaks of in Galatians. Even the timing is set for us.

  • (2 Corinthians 12:1, 2) . . .I have to boast. It is not beneficial, but I will move on to supernatural visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in union with Christ who, 14 years ago—whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know; God knows—was caught away to the third heaven.
  • (Galatians 2:1, 2) . . .Then after 14 years I again went up to Jerusalem with Barʹna·bas, also taking Titus along with me. 2 I went up as a result of a revelation,. . .

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18 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

superfine apostles from Jerusalem (like James, Peter, and John).

I am under the impression that these brothers were not who Paul had in mind, but he was talking about the "Judeizers" 

Didn't he call James, Peter and John pillars? I'm not on my pc so I can't check. I will probably have to come back to this later with some scriptures...

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56 minutes ago, Anna said:

Didn't he call James, Peter and John pillars?

No. Certainly not! They were Judaizers. So he said they "seemed to be pillars."

(Galatians 2:6-9) . . .But regarding those who seemed to be important—whatever they were makes no difference to me, for God does not go by a man’s outward appearance—those highly regarded men imparted nothing new to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the good news for those who are uncircumcised, just as Peter had been for those who are circumcised— 8 for the one who empowered Peter for an apostleship to those who are circumcised also empowered me for those who are of the nations— 9 and when they recognized the undeserved kindness that was given me, James and Ceʹphas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars, gave Barʹna·bas and me the right hand of fellowship, . . .

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