Anybody want to flee now?

[Kosonen]

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

. It's not up to us to second guess God and decide that he is not powerful enough to protect us from what goes on around us.

It is not a question about that. Here is the question to understand correctly Ezekiel 38 and the woman's flight according to Revelation 12. 

[TrueTomHarley]

“Am I on Candid Camera?”

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Here is the question to understand correctly Ezekiel 38 and the woman's flight according to Revelation 12. 

I assume that Queensland in Australia was named after the Queen of England. I don't see much consistency in your interpretations. The woman in Revelation 12 is therefore related to the Queen of England in your book, and Babylon the Great is New York City. Your "arrogant king" of Daniel 7:8 was going to be Trump, especially if impeached out of office, at 3.5 years of his 4 year term. You used astrology to identify the time period for the prophecy of the woman in Revelation 12

All these things seemed so odd to me, because they come from all over the place, from just about anywhere.

So I did a quick google search for persons named Kosonen who claim to be from the same country as you and I noticed that a Kosonen on another forum, like you, moves very easily from saying that something MIGHT be the interpretation and then it changes to something more like: "This IS the interpretation."

I'll give you a couple of examples from the other forum:

Quote

Donald Trump became president! And he is displaying the caracteristics written in the prophecies in Daniel. He is also the horn that has eyes and a mouth and speaks arrogantly. Soon he will start to persecute the holy ones as it is written in the prophecy and stop the daily sacrifice. In other words the Watchtower activity.

In another place Kosonen starts out with "Could it be that . . . ?"

Could it be that the japanees nuclear disaster is fullfilling this bible verse: And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters, because these had been made bitter. (Revelation 8:11)

Here it says the waters had been made bitter, could it refer to radioactive water? Hard to confirm right away but look at the prophetic event mentioned prior to this (Rev 8:8,9) : And something like a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea. And a third of the sea became blood; 9 and a third of the creatures that are in the sea which have souls died, ...

Was this the oil-rig disaster last year? Because the burning oil-rig which fell into the see could well fit to the description "a great mountain burning with fire was hurled into the sea" and the spilled oil was not black but red similar to blood. And the third of the see could refer to the mexican gulf.

Even the prophecied event prior to this seems to fit what happened when the volcano erupted in Island last year (Rev 8:7): And there occurred a hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees was burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up.

"A third of the earth was burned up" could refer to a third of Island.

Also the events prior to this seems to fit the prophecy, it says "And thunders occurred and voices and lightnings and an earthquake." Prior to the oil-rig disaster and the volcanic eruption on Island there was a major earthquake on Haiti.

So if this sequence of prophecy is now fullfilling, what is then the next major sign to happen? It says: And the fourth angel blew his trumpet. And a third of the sun was smitten and a third of the moon and a third of the stars, in order that a third of them might be darkened and the day might not have illumination for a third of it, and the night likewise.

We'll see what that will be, but some say that a planet X is coming and it could happend that it would travel somewhere between the earth and the sun and thus cause a shadow so that a third of the sun would be darkened.

Next in the prophecy, (Revelation 9:1-11) there is a locust plague, and after that a 200 million (2 myriads x myriads) army coming to kill a third of the worlds population (Revelation 9:13-21). There are reports coming that Chinas and Russia are angry with what NATO is doing in the middle east and this could trigger China to take over the Asia and Middle East while USA is going to default.

...

Most of that was presented with the words like "could" and "if" which is a better way to present these types of interpretations. But then Kosonen comes back to the same thread, as in the previous one about Trump, and makes statements that are much more sure, as if there is no question any more:

Quote

As time has past since I started this thread, it has become evident what the things in Revelation 8 were after those events I mentioned earlier. The oil rig disaster was really significant and of biblical proportions. Yes it was like a burning mountain that fell to the sea.

And further in the same post:

Quote

Rev8:10The third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning like a lamp fell from heaven

And truely this happened. It was the famous Chelyabinsk meteor we could hear about in the news.

And

Quote

But then the verse 12 says the sun and moon and stars were darkened by a third.   That I understand to symbolize the hopelessness that started to spread on the world after the previous event.  Because after the downfall of the Chelyabinsk meteor the relations between Russia and USA got much worse. Because Russia annexed Krimea.

I would recommend that you wait until there is evidence that something turns out to be verifiably correct, or offer a LOT more scriptural evidence of any particular interpretation, before making it sound like you can be so sure of interpretations like some of the the ones you have offered here.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I would recommend that you wait until there is evidence that something turns out to be verifiably correct

Isn’t ‘Queens’ a borough of New York? I think that you may come to rethink your doubting.

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Kosonen said:

I've done. Every Jehovah's witness sell their kingdom hall, house or apartment if owned and car. That would be more than enough money to fly to Australia. 

Maybe that WT ask for a global discount on a 8 plus million plane tickets (free tickets for minor children). In that case, maybe a one-way ticket would only be a dollar per person. And there is no need to sell the property, let everyone rent it and collect the rent, and let it all money sit on the branch account in Australia :)))

[Srecko Sostar]

Movie "Going to America" with Eddie Murphy, an extremely pampered African Prince travels to Queens, New York in looking for his future Queen wife. And no better place is Queens New York, because even name of the place is very promising for his searching  :))

https://www.imdb.com/video/vi995605273?ref_=tt_pv_vi_aiv_1

 

 

[Anna]

I'm a little at a loss for words...

[Kosonen]

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

assume that Queensland in Australia was named after the Queen of England. I don't see much consistency in your interpretations.

Yes, I assume that also. But it does not exclude that God was not directing matters. Because sometimes people say or do something for their own purposes, but what they do serve God's will at the same time. One example of that is the following:

John 11:49 "But one of them, Caʹia·phas,+ who was high priest that year, said to them: “You do not know anything at all,50  and you have not reasoned that it is to your benefit for one man to die in behalf of the people rather than for the whole nation to be destroyed.”51  He did not say this, however, of his own originality, but because he was high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was to die for the nation, 52  and not only for the nation but also to gather together into one the children of God who were scattered about. 53  So from that day on they conspired to kill him."

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You used astrology to identify the time period for the prophecy of the woman in Revelation 12

No, that is not astrology. It is astronomy.

Genesis1:14  Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.

16  And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars.

Job 9:9 He made the Ash, the Keʹsil, and the Kiʹmah constellations, And the constellations of the southern sky; 10  He does great and unsearchable things, Wonderful things that cannot be counted.

Job 38:31  Can you tie the ropes of the Kiʹmah constellation Or untie the cords of the Keʹsil constellation? 32  Can you lead out a constellation in its season Or guide the Ash constellation along with its sons?33  Do you know the laws governing the heavens, Or can you impose their authority on the earth?

 

So there is no harm in knowing astronomy. And on 23rd of September 2017, the heavenly bodies aligned just as describes in Revelation 12:1,2. I regard that a such coincidence  could not just happen randomly. So I believe it is a sign from Jehovah God to give us the time when the war in heaven started according to Revelation 12.

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Kosonen on another forum, like you, moves very easily from saying that something MIGHT be the interpretation and then it changes to something more like: "This IS the interpretation

You see, my faith had got stronger. It is like that. I am first surprised by happenings that seem to fulfill prophecies. And as I get more information I become more convinced, until I am fully convinced. That is a normal process I think.

And I am really happy that I have understood most of the meaning of Revelation 8. The WT's explanations never stuck to me. They were just too farfetched. 

[JW Insider]

16 hours ago, Kosonen said:

No, that is not astrology. It is astronomy.

No. I understand your claim, but here's why I'd have to say it's astrology. It requires the identification of constellations that go beyond any Biblical identification of those constellations. For one constellation to represent the woman, you would have to know that pagans named this group of stars the Virgin. This particular group of stars could just as easily have been used to represent a goat, or a snake, but pagans drew a "Virgin" around it. (By the way, a woman who gives birth is not by definition a virgin.) Then the next group of stars associated with this "sign" had been identified as a "Lion." For all you know the Bible's version of the "Women" constellation is "Orion" or "The Big Dipper."

Curiously, there is no Lion and no Virgin mentioned in Revelation 12. There is a non-virgin Woman, a Dragon (the star Draconis?), and a Snake. Where are those actual "constellations" if they are supposed to appear in the heavens? There are very few constellations mentioned in the Bible. Kimeh and Kesil are in Amos, repeated along with Ash in Job, but we have no real idea which constellations these were. The fact that translators have had to guess at the constellations meant, indicates that the Hebrews did not follow the Babylonian system at that time, from which many of the current names have derived.

Also, the idea uses deception. It requires you to miscount the number of stars associated with the constellation, and then it requires you to pretend that 3 planets are to be counted along with the 8 miscounted stars to make 12 stars. If this was so important, do you really think that Jehovah or the Bible writer could not have picked the actual word for planet? Greek does have such a word: planetes.

Also, Venus and Saturn are the only external planets mentioned in the Bible. The planetary alignment required here uses Venus, Mars, and Mercury.

It's impossible to identify for sure the stars named in Job. It's possible that some of these other star constellations and planets do get mentioned in the Bible, such as the claims made for 2 Kings 17, but look at the context:

(2 Kings 17:30, 31) 30 So the men of Babylon made Sucʹcoth-beʹnoth, the men of Cuth made Nerʹgal, the men of Haʹmath made A·shiʹma, 31 and the Avʹvites made Nibʹhaz and Tarʹtak. The Seʹphar·vites would burn their sons in the fire to A·dramʹme·lech and A·namʹme·lech, the gods of Seph·ar·vaʹim.

(2 Kings 23:5) 5 So he put out of business the foreign-god priests, whom the kings of Judah had appointed to make sacrificial smoke on the high places in the cities of Judah and the surroundings of Jerusalem, as well as those making sacrificial smoke to Baʹal, to the sun, to the moon, to the constellations of the zodiac, and to all the army of the heavens. . .

Also, any person who promotes this idea has be deceitful in claiming that it "appears".in the heavens. Of course, it never appears except on a computer screen using astronomy software, because you can't see any of these constellations or planets while the women wears the sun as a garment. And I suspect Mercury was even less visible to the naked eye than some of the actual constellation's stars that were discounted because they would have thrown off the count. If it didn't "appear" then it can't fulfill Revelation 12:

"Then a great sign was seen in heaven"

Anyway, I think we covered that before.

16 hours ago, Kosonen said:

And on 23rd of September 2017, the heavenly bodies aligned just as describes in Revelation 12:1,2. I regard that a such coincidence  could not just happen randomly.

On average, it happens about every 240 years. It will randomly happen again according to the same astronomy software. Also, coincidentally, the last time it happened (Sept 24, 1827) was right there in the time period between two great signs in heaven that Charles Russell taught about in the early 1800's. Between time the sun did not give its light (May 19, 1780), and the time when the stars fell from heaven (Nov 13, 1833). Russell taught these dates in the Watchtower right up until he died in 1916.

What value do any of these dates bring to any of us spiritually? 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

15 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

What value do any of these dates bring to any of us spiritually? 

ZERO

But, like picking at scabs that itch ... it makes a lot of people feel better, and other people see the bleeding scabs, and moonwalk..

[Kosonen]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

. If this was so important, do you really think that Jehovah or the Bible writer could not have picked the actual word for planet? Greek does have such a word: planetes.

I think the case with Venus explains this. In the Bible it is named the Morgning Star. 

Why that? Simply because for the naked eye planets look like stars. A few years back I thought I had never seen planets in the sky and I wondered how the ancient Greeks had been able to see planets in the sky? But then I downloaded an app named Solar System Scope and could then identify several planets which I would have thought were stars. 

[Kosonen]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

. If it didn't "appear" then it can't fulfill Revelation 12:

"Then a great sign was seen in heaven"

There is generally nothing that simple in the Bible. Many of the prophecies in the Bible did not get their fulfillment exactly as fortold. So the Revelation 12 sign is no exception. 

 

"Then a great sign was seen in heaven"  does not mean that everyone would see it, but instead it means simply that apostle John saw what he saw and then recorded it.