Anybody want to flee now?

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, paulus said:

I am certain that a god who finds no pleasure in the suffering of humans would have him or her dispatched quickly. So it does make a difference both to the angel and the victim.

I get it. Jehovah takes no pleasure in the suffering of humans and therefore would have him killed without much suffering.

1 hour ago, paulus said:

I would unfortunately take some pleasure in doing this.

I get it. You would take pleasure in prolonging the suffering of a fellow human because they were apostate. You like the idea of prolonged torture against enemies.

(Romans 12:16-21) . . .Do not become wise in your own eyes. 17 Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.

(Mark 7:20-23) 20 Further, he said: “That which comes out of a man is what defiles him. 21 For from inside, out of the heart of men, come injurious reasonings, sexual immorality, thefts, murders, 22 acts of adultery, greed, acts of wickedness, deceit, brazen conduct, an envious eye, blasphemy, haughtiness, and unreasonableness. 23 All these wicked things come from within and defile a man.”

(James 2:11-13) If, now, you do not commit adultery but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of law. 12 Keep on speaking and behaving in such a way as those do who are going to be judged by the law of a free people. 13 For the one who does not practice mercy will have his judgment without mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Food for thought.

[Anna]

9 hours ago, Kosonen said:

So what could we learn from them? Surely these flights are examples for us

And yet the Israelites were told to hunker down in their homes and stay put when Jehovah's Angel passed over Egypt.

Jehovah can save anyone, individually, no matter where they are physically.  The war of Armageddon will be global, no place to run to. We will rely on Jehovah's power to save us no matter where we are. No need for a mass exodus to Australia.

[Anna]

5 hours ago, paulus said:

But it is sad that this site which I believe was set up to provide encouragement and support to Brothers and sisters around the world tolerates

So that you know, this site allows all to voice their opinions. If someone is not sufficiently convinced of their own beliefs then they may want to leave. No one is preventing that. 

[JW Insider]

9 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Anybody want to flee now?

Not particularly. But especially not right now.

9 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Or have you ever thought how nice it would be if all Jehovah's witnesses were gathered in one place when the battle at Armageddon will occur?

Not necessary for the time when Armageddon starts. Remember when Elijah thought he was all alone, and no other prophets had been spared?

(Romans 11:2-5) . . .Do you not know what the scripture says in connection with E·liʹjah, as he pleads with God against Israel? 3 “Jehovah, they have killed your prophets, they have dug up your altars, and I alone am left, and now they are trying to take my life.” 4 Yet, what does the divine pronouncement say to him? “I have left for myself 7,000 men who have not bent the knee to Baʹal.” 5 So in the same way, at the present time also, there is a remnant according to a choosing through undeserved kindness.

Obviously Elijah was not at that time huddled together with them. Jehovah sees everywhere, and can choose to protect whom he chooses.

9 hours ago, Kosonen said:

And are we not thrilled by the story, how the Christians left Jerusalem year 66CE after the Roman army unexplicably halted their attack on Jerusalem and left?

Yes, thrilling, but there is no evidence that they all fled to the same place.

9 hours ago, Kosonen said:

And what can we learn from all the other stories in the Bible that involved literal fleeing or journey to a new place?

@Anna has already mentioned what happened at Passover. @paulus has already referred to a very appropriate scripture:

(2 Chronicles 20:17) 17 You will not need to fight this battle. Take your position, stand still, and see the salvation of Jehovah in your behalf. . . .

And there are other principles that can well be applied to Armageddon:

(Lamentations 3:24-26) 24 “Jehovah is my share,” I have said, “that is why I will show a waiting attitude for him.” ט [Teth] 25 Good is Jehovah to the one hoping in him, to the person who keeps seeking him. 26 Good it is to wait in silence for the salvation of Jehovah.

Or the more "famous:"

(Psalm 91:2-11) . . .I will say to Jehovah: “You are my refuge and my stronghold, My God in whom I trust.”  3 For he will rescue you from the trap of the birdcatcher, From the destructive pestilence.  4 With his pinions he will cover you, And under his wings you will take refuge. His faithfulness will be a large shield and a protective wall.  5 You will not fear the terrors of the night, Nor the arrow that flies by day,  6 Nor the pestilence that stalks in the gloom, Nor the destruction that ravages at midday.  7 A thousand will fall at your side And ten thousand at your right hand, But to you it will not come near.  8 You will only see it with your eyes As you witness the punishment of the wicked.  9 Because you said: “Jehovah is my refuge,” You have made the Most High your dwelling; 10 No disaster will befall you, And no plague will come near your tent. 11 For he will give his angels a command concerning you, To guard you in all your ways.

Perhaps it would be nice if many of us could take a long, expensive flight to Australia. Are you recommending a specific time to leave? Any particular airline or cruise line? And why this place in particular? Is it a wilderness that has some connection to the word wilderness in Revelation 12:6?

If so, it appears to fly in the face of the very scriptures we often look to when thinking about the parousia/synteleia, the judgment on the world. About that Jesus warned:

(Matthew 24:23-26) . . .“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned you. 26 Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; . . .

It makes me wonder whether Jesus already knew there would be people thinking they could convince others to flee to a wilderness.

[Arauna]

12 hours ago, Kosonen said:

The WT has not been able to give us understanding about what kind of literal flight Jehovah's witnesses will at least partially undertake according to a few prophecies in the

 

9 hours ago, Kosonen said:

your trip to queensland, australia.

I lived in Africa for 45 years.......... a violent continent and Islamists creating havoc.  You have a very good chance of having your head chopped off with a machete or slowly tortured to death.

I recently lived in Europe -  violence is increasing and in future we will see major upheavals with the cultures that do not get along.  (The UN will bring in their rules to get everyone to live together under strict surveillance).  I now live in Asia Minor in a reasonably safe place but all the countries around me could become dangerous suddenly.  Russia, Iran, Turkey to name but just a few.  My husband and I have decided to die here and face Armageddon here.  It is as good as any other place.

Australia and Japan are in fear of China because china is becoming aggressive in its territorial aspirations. China has already bribed most Indonesian countries. Australia has severe problems as well and do not like new immigrants.

Bottom line:  In previous historical times there were places to flee to but everyone has now run out of places.... and you will not qualify as a "migrant"  if you come from a first world country. In any case " The Internet of Things"  which is being planned for mankind, and is "by their estimations" to be  implemented by 2022, will track you wherever you go. G5 being installed in most cities now as we speak. The new vaccinations against Corona will ensure it..... they are talking about putting a chip in the vaccination so you will not be able to travel if you do not scan it in and have the right traveling credentials.

No place to hide...... only in your room on your knees where Jehovah says you can wait on him  OR with your fellow believers in prison.   I must say, although the prison scenario will definitely be cramped and dirty....... and to add some spice.....not all JW personalities are easy to get along with.... it is better to be with them than living in total anarchy........ because this will be the scenario before and during Armageddon. 

At least in jail we can pray together and sing together and support each other.  The situation will not be ideal but we can count on Jehovah's angels to be there.  The authorities may even get to kill  a few JWs before Jehovah steps in.

Who knows?  But I am not adverse to go to jail with my brothers and sisters....... better place to be ...huddled together.

Unfortunately the time for sentiment is over...... the realities will soon hit home when very nasty events under Satan's control start to happen.

[paulus]

3 hours ago, Anna said:

So that you know, this site allows all to voice their opinions. If someone is not sufficiently convinced of their own beliefs then they may want to leave. No one is preventing that. 

Good to know who's side your on, shame its the wrong one? Im sure your namesake the prophetess of old would feel differently. Anyone not sufficiantly convinced of there own beliefs should be helped not led astray.

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, paulus said:

Sorry but unfortunately I have strong fellings on this matter, hence the language.

 

8 hours ago, paulus said:

I would unfortunately take some pleasure in doing this. However I do not have the authority to do this so will be a good little christian brother that I am supposed to be and not the murderous jw some think I may be.

Freedom of feelings, freedom of speech. .... where is freedom of act ? If i get it correctly, you are asking for "God's authority", but think you don't have that kind of "the authority"? Wrong. God gave people "all authority" by giving humankind free will to do whatever they want, and not going into preventing or to stop any of our "free will ideas".  Of course, we have to be aware of consequences.

If someone want to "fight" against "stupidity" of particular individual here, than he/she must be ready to "fight" against "stupidity" of religious leaders in WTJWorg too. 

[paulus]

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

Freedom of feelings, freedom of speech. .... where is freedom of act ? If i get it correctly, you are asking for "God's authority", but think you don't have that kind of "the authority"? Wrong. God gave people "all authority" by giving humankind free will to do whatever they want, and not going into preventing or to stop any of our "free will ideas".  Of course, we have to be aware of consequences.

If someone want to "fight" against "stupidity" of particular individual here, than he/she must be ready to "fight" against "stupidity" of religious leaders in WTJWorg too. 

Correct, choices have consequences,  everyone needs to choose sides Now.  Despite individuals  imperfections including mine. Think your on the wrong one ?

[Kosonen]

1 hour ago, paulus said:

Good to know who's side your on, shame its the wrong one?

Should you not examine if maybe you are overly confident? Have you really no doubt about the governing body's ability to give necessary guidance all the way to Armageddon? You see they are very quiet about for example the mark of the beast and do not anymore stress the importance of the book of Revelation as before?

[Kosonen]

19 hours ago, paulus said:

and in the process malign Jehovahs name then if I had the command from Jehovah to dispatch these scumbags just like the isrealites of old

The best way to sanctify Jehovah's name is as Jesus told in John 15:8: My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. .....12  This is my commandment, that you love one another just as I have loved you.

Matthew 5:22 However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; and whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·henʹna.

43  “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44  However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens,

Paulus, how do you know if the governing body is right condemning me and my understanding? Could it not just be that they are themselves mistaken?

 

[paulus]

9 minutes ago, Kosonen said:

The best way to sanctify Jehovah's name is as Jesus told in John 15:8: My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. .....12  This is my commandment, that you love one another just as I have loved you.

Matthew 5:22 However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; and whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·henʹna.

43  “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44  However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens,

Paulus, how do you know if the governing body is right condemning me and my understanding? Could it not just be that they are themselves mistaken?

 

Typical apostate reasoning. Taking words out of context and unable to apply scripture to themselves. Your the fool. Ive been disfellowshipped twice becouse I deserved it. But the last thing I would ever do is betray my creator Jehovah and his chosen organisation. Theres still time for you to repent but I think your to far gone. But I'm not your Judge. Good luck with that when the time comes.  See you in Gehenna 👹

[Kosonen]

@Arauna Thanks Arauna for your reply. You are right that many christians, especially anointed will face such hardships you wrote about in your reply. That is completely in accord with the Bible. 

But who understands Ezekiel 38? As we know that chapter speaks about a safe and quiet place where believers in Jehovah will live right up to Gog's attempt to plunder them?

And who understands Revelation 12? This chapter makes a separation between the "woman" that escapes to a safe place away from Satan and the remaing of woman's seed. The "woman" will be in safety for a purpose, namely to be fed there 1260 days. But at the same time Satan will be able to persecute the remaining ones of her seed. Verse 17.

The remaining of her seed refers primarly to anointed christians. But what or who are represented by the woman? 

The woman will be in the wilderness to be fed. So this is explained by Matthew 24:45:

45  “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

So the "woman" in Revelation 12 should represent the domestics, the non-anointed Jehovah's witnesses. 

So the "woman's" flight to safety should mean that the "great crowd" will at least partially according to the Bible flee to a place of safety and be out of reach from Satan and persecution. But in the same time many anointed will not flee there and they will then find themselves in persecutions of different degree.

And have we not heard many times the WT organization say that it is important to obey the direction it gives? And that in the future there might come very hard to understand directives?

When the WT organization will tell they have a place for all to flee to, yes that will probably be for most Jehovah's witnesses a very strange thing to hear.

And that could be even harder if such new directives would come if the governing body is replaced by someone else.