My latest letter to WT demanding correction from their side

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Should we judge and blame elders who acted according to false knowledge, err instructions and deceived "sound mind"? We can do that. Because they put their trust in other human, WT Top Management aka Directors later called GB and not JHVH and Jesus as they claimed and taught members from stage.

To the extent that they were not convinced in their own mind, then yes, they were potentially going against their own conscience.

But in their Bible-based training, how many elders actually question the blood doctrine, for example, as if it is man-made? I think that almost all elders are convinced in their own mind that this comes directly from Jehovah because it's found in Acts 15 & 21. If someone were to tell an elder that organ transplants were no different than blood transfusions because you can never get rid of every bit of the whole blood in a muscle or organ then it would be just as easy to convince the elders on these grounds, too.

But I agree that elders have acted on "knowledge" that seemed true at the time, but turned out to be "false knowledge." And there is too much reliance on the "probability" that heaven has already agreed with the GB about those things elders will judge. The idea that Jesus gave about things bound or loosed in heaven does seem to be an acceptance that the Christian congregation will need to make decisions requiring some to have authority over others. Like telling a person that he must make changes before he is welcome back in a congregation that meets in someone's home, or telling the same person that he can meet with Christians at the "synagogue" in town, but that others will be asked not to voluntarily interact with him until he makes those changes. This will require "authority" of some over others. And what if that authority must be exercised over a fellow elder?

(1 Timothy 5:19-21) . . .Do not accept an accusation against an older man except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 20 Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest. 21 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels to observe these instructions without any prejudice or partiality.

Jesus is saying that some can be chosen to have such rights over others, which implies organizational authority. (Selecting elders, who act as "older men" acted in OT times, as judges.) But Jesus is also saying that his invisible presence with them will be available. This assumes a prayerful, humble attitude that treats the words of Jesus and the "mind of Christ" as if he were physically present.

This will keep such judgements from becoming too arbitrary, or based on false knowledge that is only correct for a specific time frame and then becomes obsolete. Those particular "short-lived" ideas appear to have been started by individuals in the organization who were given their position due to charisma, bombastic personalities, or the appearance of great individual wisdom. No one would dare go against them. It was not a case of two or three gathered in Jesus' name, but a personality cult around a single person. Rutherford recognized the personality cult around Russell, but very few bothered to point out the personality cult around Rutherford and F.W.Franz. If these men had been humble enough to consult with others over their biggest decisions, there would have been fewer of these "frames" you mentioned. But this is the "bane" of every organization. Paul spoke of the same to the Corinthians, who wanted to follow their special superfine apostles. Men from James seemed to have been too willing to take the side of James on an important issue, so Paul spoke to the Galatians about how they were accepting improper authority from these so-called "pillars of Jerusalem" even though these pillars never imparted anything new to Paul himself.

A well-balanced Governing Body of experienced older men can serve the congregations very well, and there SHOULD be a lot of trust in what they decide is important. When it comes to imitating their judgements, we should follow their lead depending on how well their conduct turns out. (Their "conduct" would include how their past judgments have turned out, including those temporary "frames.".) But there are limits, as you pointed out. We carry our own load, and stand on our own before the judgement seat of God. Elders have their own responsibility to pay attention to their teachings. They could harm the flock because the flock expects to be able to follow.

(1 Timothy 4:15, 16) . . .. 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

(Hebrews 13:17) . . .Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.

 

[Witness]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:23 AM, JW Insider said:

Disfellowshipping is not "killing." That's just another mistake, too. Jehovah sees the heart no matter what mistakes are made on earth.

I know you’ve read the WT’s early teaching (1947) preaching against excommunication/disfellowshipping.

“Are You Excommunicated?”

Excerpt in regard to the Catholic Church and it practice of excommunication:

“This means that you are looked upon with the blackest contempt by the Vatican, being cursed and damned with the Devil and his angels.”

Watchtower today, who practice the same doctrine:

"Like Satan, human apostates are unruly men who cook up wicked reasonings and season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds.”

The mark of disfellowshipping is the same as excommunication.  It judges an individual as deserving (being “damned”) of death.  JWs believe there is no promise of life if one sides completely with Satan, which they feel apostates have done so.   And I guarantee you that some here believe I am one of those “human apostates” brewing up lies in Satan’s kitchen. They have personally judged me as undeserving of life.   Also, I can’t count how many times I have read of individuals disfellowshipped who feel they might as well be dead, because of the treatment given them from the organization. And if anyone has a son or daughter who has been disfellowshipped, they may grieve for the loss of their child, as if he or she has died.  This is the result of WT's strict teaching on how to treat disfellowshipped individuals.  It is a very grotesque practice, just as the early WT pointed out.  

There is no possibility of eternal life without God.  Thus, your brochure bearing the title, “Return to Jehovah” signifies that those disfellowshipped, even shunned ones, are considered spiritually “dead”.  When the elders disfellowship an individual for whatever reason, they have marked them as undeserving of eternal life.  They have spiritually “killed” them by their judgment of disfellowshipping.  Rev 13:15

I wonder how an organization can go from saying this about excommunication…

“the weapon of excommunication became the instrument by which the clergy obtained a combination of ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny that finds no parallel in history”

To this, about an identical practice enforced by a “clergy”/elder body/GB…

mwb 19 March 9 - “How can it be said that disfellowshipping is a loving provision when it causes so much pain?”

Well, with such sadistic undertones, the WT has outdone the Catholic Church. Disfellowshipping is indeed the instrument used to maintain "ecclesiastical" power over primarily, the anointed of God, and all.  Rev 13:7

What is also very hypocritical is this:

“Shepherd the Flock of God”, April, 2020

Apostasy -

Deliberately Spreading Teachings Contrary to Bible Truth: (2 John 7, 9, 10; lvs p. 245; it-1 pp. 126-127) Any with sincere doubts regarding the Bible truth taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses should be helped. Loving assistance should be provided. (2 Tim. 2:16-19, 23-26; Jude 22, 23) If one obstinately is speaking about or deliberately spreading false teachings, this may be or may lead to apostasy. If there is no response after a first and a second admonition, a judicial committee should be formed.—Titus 3:10, 11; w86 4/1 pp. 30-31

“Spreading teachings contrary to Bible Truth”

This is “truth” taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses

Only a small percentage  of Watchtower’s “truth” is Bible Truth.  It is made up of “adjustments”, and “beliefs clarified”.  These are not Bible truths. 

The obstinate one speaks against this “truth”.  Yet, this one, is “spreading false teachings”, which is equated to apostasy and cooking up lies in Satan’s kitchen.  The obstinate one brings WT’s false teachings and failed doctrine to the table, just as Jesus brought up the Pharisees lies.  Unless this questioning one stops questioning, and obeys the GB, he or she is disfellowshipped.

Who really is…the apostate?

 

 

 https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/01/is-leaving-city-enough.html

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

When it comes to imitating their judgements, we should follow their lead depending on how well their conduct turns out. (Their "conduct" would include how their past judgments have turned out, including those temporary "frames.".)

The time test is one way things are revealed. Inside years and decades when other following their conduct and imitate their decisions, many are affected with things that much later will be found as wrong.

But that is the price we all pays no matter what it is about.

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

To the extent that they were not convinced in their own mind, then yes, they were potentially going against their own conscience.

Exceptional mental effort is required to constantly re-examine one's own and others' opinions, ideas, beliefs, rules, doctrines. That is hard to achieve and I think we rarely succeed in that. And we need more time. That is why we have success only at periodic intervals. :))

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Exceptional mental effort is required to constantly re-examine one's own and others' opinions, ideas, beliefs, rules, doctrines. That is hard to achieve and I think we rarely succeed in that. And we need more time. That is why we have success only at periodic intervals. :))

This is so true. In fact I do not examine myself so much now as i know I will only find excuses for my reasonings.. 

The one thing I've come to know is that i do not know the 'truth' about anything. Everything is just opinions and even scripture can be interpreted in many different ways. This forum gives proof to that point. 

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Exceptional mental effort is required to constantly re-examine one's own and others' opinions, ideas, beliefs, rules, doctrines. That is hard to achieve and I think we rarely succeed in that. 

 I don't think the average JW practices this at all.  It is too easy to accept every morsel of spiritual food from the GB as truth.  

 

[Witness]

13 hours ago, Witness said:

Apostasy -

Deliberately Spreading Teachings Contrary to Bible Truth: (2 John 7, 9, 10; lvs p. 245; it-1 pp. 126-127) Any with sincere doubts regarding the Bible truth taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses should be helped.

The 2015 version of the "Flock" book reads, "Bible truth AS taught by Jehovah's Witnesses", which gives flexibility to "truth" at any given time, according to GB's present doctrine.  Perhaps the reason for dropping "as", could be that it was a point of valid argument, held by potential "apostates".

[Kosonen]

On 5/15/2020 at 5:16 PM, JW Insider said:

Imagine a case of incestuous rape in a culture where the rape victim will not likely ever be hired for a job, or will not be considered as a potential marriage partner, etc.

Or what about in a culture were that does not matter?

[Kosonen]

On 5/15/2020 at 5:31 PM, JW Insider said:

This is apparently just another reference to the "flight of the woman" based on other things you've said elsewhere. James 4 & 5 seem to be especially appropriate now that you have added wealth into the mix.

I think there is nothing bad in that because it's not me adding wealth to the mix, because it is what Ezekiel 38 actually says. I just happen to believe what is written in God's word. I am not adding nothing to it and I am not either taking away anything from it. Unfortunately the NWT even took out the word for cattle from that Bible translation. Who gave them the right to do that?

In addition I can tell you an interesting detail about how God's people could become wealthy there in cattle and gold and silver, to be coveted by Gog.

Now for example Abingdon Downs cattle ranch has 25 000 heads of cattle on 500 000 hectares of land. Because of the dry tropical climate they can at the moment feed one cow on 20 hectares of land. The grass does not grow better at this moment. But in India some villages with same climat have dug a lot of ponds and trenches to trap rain water that would otherwise run away into rivers and into the sea. One such village is able to have 600 cows on 1000 hectares. 

That means that the Abingdon Downs cattle ranch could with the same water harvesting methods have 300 000 heads of cattle instead of 25 000. So with the right methods we could really become wealthy in cows there.

In addition when we would dig the ponds and trenches, we could simultaneously scan the dirt with metal detectors and pick all the gold and silver that happens to be in the soil.

I believe it is exactly this it is about in Ezekiel 38.

[Kosonen]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:52 PM, JW Insider said:

. I would also prefer that the WTS not go after anyone on copyright issues

Your heart is in the right place here ♥️. 

From the heart comes faith.

[Kosonen]

On 5/15/2020 at 4:23 PM, JW Insider said:

all we know, these numbers have nothing to do with specific dates after the first century. We don't actually have any prophecies about world empires that definitely go past that of the Roman empire. 

Could it just be that you are too scared to be wrong? And that's maybe why you avoid even the thought that those prophecies could concern our time?

[Kosonen]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:45 PM, JW Insider said:

But they obviously acknowledge that the truly anointed should not be denigrated. 

But anyway they do that by discouraging the "other sheep" to ask the anointed about anything that conserns their anointing or if they could have any "new light".

[Kosonen]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:29 PM, JW Insider said:

Jesus was evidently so tortured by thoughts of how his death as a supposed evildoer might reflect badly on his Father’s reputation

That's what I have been talking about.