WATCHTOWER, 1991 - "HOW TO CHOOSE THE RIGHT RELIGION"

[Witness]

25 minutes ago, xero said:

Yes. As Jesus Christ is my leader. (Of course I remember some elders questioning my methods once and when I showed the example Jesus set and how I was "following it closely" one said... yeah, but now you're tail-gaiting Jesus)

 

As a JW?  As an elder?  As a member of an organization that required your "dedication"?  No.

Jesus is the only "gate".  It is a direct path.  Any other "path" is a thief that can rob us of eternal life. (John 10:7-10) The organization is not our mediator to reach the Father.  (Acts 4:11,12)

Maybe you know this; and if you do, surely you realize that no one can serve two masters.  (Matt 6:24)  However, as an elder, you are serving the needs of an organization, and the men who guide it.  You are serving a fake Zion, while obeying the GB's orders to oppress the true "Zion"/"holy city" - the anointed priesthood.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)  You have fallen into the lie that the "royal priesthood" can be "represented" by the elder body.  (2 Chron 13:9; Ezek 44:6-9)

These members are part of the Body of Jesus Christ. (1 Cor 12)  So, whatever is committed against them, is equally committed against Jesus.  Something to think about, as a "follower" of Jesus.  (Dan 8:25; Acts 9:1-5; Rev 9:4,5; 13:5-7)

You had said it would be difficult to worship outside of an organization.  The difficulty comes when leaving it - leaving the life you have developed, and the people who would subsequently shun you...behind.  It is like the true Christians that fled to the mountains of Judea before Jerusalem was destroyed.  They made similar sacrifices, but they were blessed abundantly. (Matt 10:39; 19:29; Luke 14:26; 12:53)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

17 hours ago, Anna said:

People are imperfect, they make mistakes.

 

11 hours ago, Witness said:

539 A.D.
1780
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1906
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1914
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1940s
1951
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"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."  2 Tim 4:3,4

 

[xero]

May as well include this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

https://www.openculture.com/2015/10/in-1704-isaac-newton-predicts-the-world-will-end-in-2060.html

I used to joke that if it doesn't come by 2034 (120 years from 1914) that I might reconsider. (Somehow people didn't think that as funny as I did.)

[Anna]

2 hours ago, xero said:

May as well include this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

https://www.openculture.com/2015/10/in-1704-isaac-newton-predicts-the-world-will-end-in-2060.html

I used to joke that if it doesn't come by 2034 (120 years from 1914) that I might reconsider. (Somehow people didn't think that as funny as I did.)

I have noticed that the desire to see God's promises fulfilled (nothing wrong with that of course), drives the human spirit to "predict" or "hope for" the end always in their life time. The pattern is clear: Russell hoped for the end in 1874 then 1914, Rutherford 1925, Franz 1975, the 80's GB by the end of the 20th century, today's GB between now and aprox. 2035.
Each generation would say their children aren't going to make it to school....now those  children have children of their own...and grandchildren

There are recent discussions on JW talk with brothers and sisters giving this old world no more than 5 years, and there are a few optimistic ones who say within a year. If you were to ask members of your congregation when do they think the end will come, you will hear similar sentiments. Many believe the pandemic will lead straight into the GT.
Of course logically, the end will come in someone's life time, and one day we will be right.

I admire Isaac Newton because his "prediction" defied the rules of wishing for it in one's lifetime. For that reason he seems more believable. But of course I hope he is wrong...because of course I would like it to happen in our lifetime! Oh, the irony of it! 😂

It is not wrong to hope for good things to come, what is wrong is our serving God only for that reason, and building our hope up to the point of expectation delayed making us sick.

You have probably heard this sentiment before, it's great, and I like to remind myself of it periodically: "Plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your lifetime, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"

[xero]

For some reason this clip came to mind...

 

[Srecko Sostar]

27 minutes ago, Anna said:

You have probably heard this sentiment before, it's great, and I like to remind myself of it periodically: "Plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your lifetime, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"

This saying about Armageddon seems acceptable, but it is not. Some JW people chose poorly paid jobs because everything will fall apart anyway so retirement doesn’t matter because Armageddon will come soon. Some did not invest in the maintenance of the house, because it will soon end, why invest in what will be destroyed in Armageddon. The WTJWorg administration, on the other hand, made big plans and investments in real estate construction and then sold them for big money. Most were raised by voluntary contributions from members who gave to the Organization. 

Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” Mahatma Gandhi. 

 

[xero]

11 hours ago, Witness said:

You had said it would be difficult to worship outside of an organization.  The difficulty comes when leaving it - leaving the life you have developed, and the people who would subsequently shun you...behind.  It is like the true Christians that fled to the mountains of Judea before Jerusalem was destroyed.  They made similar sacrifices, but they were blessed abundantly. (Matt 10:39; 19:29; Luke 14:26; 12:53)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The question is never "where should we go?" but "whom shall we follow?". We follow (as we are able) Jesus. Now the tough nut, is just how much diversity of conscience and diversity of opinion as to what is an absolute requirement to be considered faithful by Jesus, not by some external entity are we willing to tolerate? If we aren't careful, we'll be creating a cult of one, just ourselves. We absolutely need association with fellow believers, but again, how much diversity are we willing to allow? If we look with a critical eye at the accounts we read of life as a Christian in the first century, we see a lot of diversity and a lot of contention. No one was living their faith in lock-step with each other. People differed as to their opinions on following the law (or not). People were engaging in gossip. People were bad-mouthing their brothers, and Paul and others as well. Everything bad that could happen, did happen then. But they had a core hope. They all agreed that Jesus was the messiah. They had predictions about when the end would come (and they were wrong too). I understand it's harder for some than for others to remain when others don't share their views or when others appear to insist you share theirs. Guess what? The same thing happened in the first century.

So I asked before and I'll ask again. Was your experience all negative, or were there just aspects of it you found you simply couldn't reconcile? What of your beliefs do you have with which you can share with the wider group of people in the world who refer to themselves (and believe it) as "Christians".

Once I was asked by a person I'd called on for years whether I thought it was absolutely necessary to be a card-carrying JW to survive Armageddon. I said "I hope not. Because 27k hours later of talking w/people at the door has let me know how I'm no better (and probably worse) than a lot of people." He then asked "So why are you here then? Why do you do this?" I said "Inertia...that and for the same reason I lift weights and run. The weights don't change and the roads I run on don't change, but I do for the effort. Doing this work changed me and continues to change me, and I'd like to think for the better."

[TrueTomHarley]

Plan as if Alan will be out of your hair tomorrow. Live as if you know he won’t be.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

17 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Plan as if Alan will be out of your hair tomorrow. Live as if you know he won’t be.

But of course you are not an attack dog are you. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

18 hours ago, xero said:

Now the tough nut, is just how much diversity of conscience and diversity of opinion as to what is an absolute requirement to be considered faithful by Jesus, not by some external entity are we willing to tolerate?

Well it seems as if JWs have no conscience about Child Sexual Abuse Earthwide within the Watchtower/JW Org. JWs just brush it off by saying, 'Well no one is perfect'. 

And it seems that JWs have no conscience about teaching lies to people on the door to door ministry. 

Actually i don't know what JWs do have a conscience about. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

But of course you are not an attack dog are you. 

On the contrary, I have pretty much turned into one. That’s why I said I may have been here too long.

My only rationalization, which probably does not suffice, is that the few I go after have large “Kick Me” signs on their backsides. If they would take them down, it wouldn’t happen.

Take yourself, for example. Alan has launched the more blistering attacks on God—not God as JWs see him, but God as any believer sees him. That makes you just another “ignorant moron” in his eyes. Yet you are thick as thieves with him, approving any anti-spiritual diatribe of his, and disapproving any put-down of him.

Attacking Jehovah’s Witnesses appears to be your sole concern. It does not matter to you if you sell out God in the process.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Attacking Jehovah’s Witnesses appears to be your sole concern. It does not matter to you if you sell out God in the process.

Another laughing emoji? I have the same fear with you, 4jah, namely that the curtain may be pulled away one day to reveal I am interacting with another nine-year-old