The Sacred Field Ministry Stopped by a Bad Flu?

[Witness]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Restorationist

I'll tell you what.  You stop lumping the wt. in with "restorationists", and I'll stop applying your term, "prosperity preachers" to the GB.  Instead, I'll use a scripture:

‘The leech has two daughters.
    “Give! Give!” they cry.  Prov 30:15 

 

[Thinking]

9 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

@Thinking Isn't there any instance of a house holder wanting you to come speak with them during the pandemic? Granted some restrictions are "temporarily" lessen in some cases.

Funny thing is…not one so far…they have come to me….and if some one asked me to have a coffee with them at their house…..and even if I knew from that spiritual talk would evolve…I would go….

The thing with this is the power of Jehovah’s ability in maneuvering  people …to be where they can hear truths….his hand is not cut short…in conjunction with specific prayers…and the internet is also incredibly useful in sending info….and in my circle and neck of the woods…often the best info comes from other sources than JW ORG…

when the restrictions are server..as in no visitors allowed in homes …with modern technology…it is not a hinderance.

[Thinking]

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

David Splane Convention talks does not support humility. 

"Media Reports are often carefully worded to avoid a lawsuit", he said .....I guess lawsuit by WTJWorg Lawyers against freedom of speech of ex-JW or CSA victims or other who speak how WTJWorg practice in some life situations is wrong.

He talks about the fact that not everyone who is convicted and punished "by man" is also guilty (because God does not think he is guilty) .... so then switch to the topic that if someone reads how an individual or organization is sued, then settle the matter out of court. Settling out of court does not mean someone is guilty, he says.

Well, then he says a jury is a bunch of ignorant people who know nothing about law. The jury, he says, does not always have access to all the facts, because judges and lawyers decide what to present to them.

Splane concludes that neither party, (the plaintiff's and the defendant's lawyers), want the whole truth to be known and visible in court.

Accordingly, he said in fact also this:  WTJWorg lawyers don’t want to give all the truth to the Court, to the jury, to the public. And this in fact means:  WTJWorg lawyers don't want to give justice to the victim.

And "the public" are both group, so called worldly people and JW members. With this Convention talk he gives to JW members and public a big fat lie as "proper food in proper time". 

Yes, David Splane's "preaching service" from door to door of every person who opened the door of their home with the click of a finger on the jworg website, fulfilled the prophecy of Jesus.

I also wish certain things had been acknowledged in that talk….but I also had to agree with a lot of things he said….he brang out some things which I had not taken into account also….

I have also seen lies on forums and distortions of facts..and off course there are distortions on court cases..in the media…..I’ve seen it happen with the Amish and Mormons  and SDA…and yes..we have had genuine cases which should never had gone to court…and shame on us as a people for those….never ever should have been treated as they were ….and shame on us for those poor innocent kids…I know some of them…

They should be acknowledged ..and Jehovah has…

You think Jehovah’s hand hasn’t been visible in bringing these innocent cases to light ….yes bad men do enter into the Congs….yes we have elders who should not be elders and who have abused their powers and thus abused the sheep under their supervision…yes the Branch at times have given directions they should definetly not have given…yes we had to change some of our policies….yes some if not a lot of witnesses may not be able to ever see this…or even consider such a thing because it has not happened in their congs…they have not been touched by such things…because this sort of rot is not the norm…it is in fact the minority…and that is a fact!!

I have also heard them apologize…from the platform for such things..and even in print …but you are not there to hear it…I was…you are not there to read it…I was….even in the current convention they spoke about ones wronged and hurt in the truth….

There is no faith that does not experience these things…none!   I know you will not agree with anything I say..I expect that..I hope someone who has been hurt does not walk away from their faith because of the one sided …unrealistic view you and others paint.

You all see the gnarled ugly old tree…..you don’t step back and see the green lush forest…

Brother Splane  was right when he said Satan is active in a sneaky way…..what ones like you do…is manipulate those who have genuinely been hurt and crushed….to such a point..they go off into the wilderness all alone…to be devoured by beasts…..those who do this..are no different than elders and those in authority who have abused the sheep….you rape brothers and sisters of their faith….and leave them dying on the side of the road…and done all  in the name of Jehovah because most of them claim to have all been chosen and anointed….so whose now abusing who?

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

I'll tell you what.  You stop lumping the wt. in with "restorationists", and I'll stop applying your term, "prosperity preachers" to the GB.  Instead, I'll use a scripture:

‘The leech has two daughters.
    “Give! Give!” they cry.  Prov 30:15 

 

I found this on Wikipedia.

The Restoration Movement has been characterized by several key principles:

• Christianity should not be divided, Christ intended the creation of one church.^[3]:38[11]
• Creeds divide, but Christians should be able to find agreement by standing on the Bible itself (from which they believe all creeds are but human expansions or constrictions)^[12]
• Ecclesiastical traditions divide, but Christians should be able to find common ground by following the practice (as best as it can be determined) of the early church.^[13]:104–6
• Names of human origin divide, but Christians should be able to find common ground by using biblical names for the church (i.e., "Christian Church", "Church of God" or "Church of Christ" as opposed to "Methodist" or "Lutheran", etc.).^[4]:27

Thus, the church 'should stress only what all Christians hold in common and should suppress all divisive doctrines and practices'.^[14]

A number of slogans have been used in the Restoration Movement, which are intended to express some of the distinctive themes of the Movement.^[15] These include:

• "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent."^[16]
• "The church of Jesus Christ on earth is essentially, intentionally, and constitutionally one."^[16]
• "We are Christians only, but not the only Christians."^[16]
• "In essentials, unity; in opinions, liberty; in all things love."^[15]:688
• "No creed but Christ, no book but the Bible, no law but love, no name but the divine."^[15]:688
• "Do Bible things in Bible ways."^[15]:688
• "Call Bible things by Bible names."^[15]:688

 

According to this "noble" points that should characterize all religious movements that "joined" to be force for Primitive Christianity, WTJWorg or JW religion as organized religious people under GB leadership,  I would say, (they) do not meet the requirements of these points to be declared restorers of the First Church. 

The JW's does not acknowledge that any other religious movement has reached the norms of the First Church, but only that the JW religion has achieved it. And all the others to be "apostates", who are already condemned by God and belong to "Babylon the Great".

For example, slogan, "We are Christians only, but not the only Christians.", is not what JW thinks about other.

Perhaps "Televangelism" is old, outdated terminology. We have "Internet Evangelism" and "Evangelistic Websites" today.  

[Equivocation]

@Jack Ryan I don't know who gave you that idea. We're still preaching, and from my experience for the last few months outside of school and work, there are people legitimately trying to find us (despite what Ex Jws say), either for meetings or a Bible Study. At times we really don't have to do much. There are people out there who generally want to learn what the Bible really teaches, who Jehovah God is and his son, Jesus. So the pandemic bogging some people down, but not all. I think we raised up in the number of adherents too. My congregation has more people, a few friends of mine had a few newcomers, even some who are in the United Kingdom, France and Spain. So we haven't stopped, Matthew 24:14 is taken seriously, and to our Russian brothers and sisters, their faith has been strong enough to prevent their situation from breaking that spiritual armor. In my experience, met some pretty cool people in the ministry via letter writing and zoom, likewise with people at my college.

@Space Merchant To this day, your knowledge and experience still intimidates people to the point of succumbing to Gnosiophobia lol. I agree with the history which you explained about what New Thought was, I was not aware that they originated from a Spiritualistic new age theology. As for Televangelism, that is also correct, not only it boomed in the 1950s in the United States, but it was in total dominance in that era to now. A paid spot on a random channel was what boosted it. The Prosperity theology is odd because it teaches that God wants people to be prosperous, especially financially, through it, power. Adherents to the Prosperity Gospel believe that wealth is a sign of God’s blessing and the poor are poor because of a lack of faith.

Also I'm not aware of who this Chan guy is, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Bible and his message is weaponized to demonize and to convert people.

@Thinking As usual, seems like the same prime suspects - taking what someone said and molding it into some mindless Frankenstein. But it is best to ignore it, or just speak the truth. A lot of people seem to be in favor of lies and deception because it fits what their view is, they never want to hear both sides of the story, this is why Brother Splane was right in key points of his talk, especially when it came to apostasy. Someone here mentioned he misused Matthew 5:25, 26, which I don't think he did. to handle  things quickly and he mentioned things handled in a just matter with truth, and the point was focused on Jesus urging his disciples to be about settling matters quickly; this is general, like disputes. He was also right about Satan causing division, and essentially leading bad association in proximity of good persons -

I can attest to that because of a recent situation whereas in a chat about the Olympics, someone asked where everyone was from and a brief note about their background, even faith, the second I mentioned I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, out of nowhere, an apostate appeared lol 😅. You never know. But the other people there argued with him, and soon after booted him. They then asked who Jehovah God, and just like that, I told them. Some of the people were not as religious but stayed to listen, some asked for verses, and I just left them with a few verses, one of the verses being James 1:13. So in a situation like that because of an apostate who lashed out randomly, it resulted in a few small Bible gems for people to remember. I had another fun experience with preaching over zoom regarding a heavy metal dude, that is a story I'll save for another day.

@Witness Well he isn't wrong. From what I am seeing, it isn't a matter of lumping terms together, Jehovah's Witnesses are Restorationist, if I recall, he has been saying that for a number of years and gave ample information to back it up (for none of us can forget colorful text, citations and quotes lol), he kept saying "roots" indicating a sense of credibility; they're not random unknown terms. It "isn't his term", in fact, he linked you the history. What he linked you, about Restorationism, it tells you just that, and the main source states: "Jehovah's Witnesses is a millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity." Backed up by prominent sources like Rodney Stark, Beckford, even some notable and credible sources. Restorationists aren't just against the Trinity/do not believe in the Trinity, but they are also the types to try to apply practices of the early church, or take steps to restoring practices in the modern day, even when it comes to Scripture and translation, this appears to be the case. There is a difference between Restorationist Christians and New Thought Christians. So calling Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone from Prosperity Preachers is not only a lie, but it shows, as he puts it, a total disregard to the history of either. Prosperity preachers are an adversary to not just Restorationist, but to nontrinitarians, so in reality, to me, and to you, we are seen as a threat. Simply making assumptions on the matter is essentially giving them a win in their book. I do wanna be the person to do that to them, and I genuinely believe you do not want to do the same too, let's not give them that win.

Some key differences:

• We believe in the commission - preaching of the good news, they believe that God gives riches and wealth in abundance, using Scripture to increase their personal wealth.
• We believe Jehovah God is the one True God. They believe Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is a person, also God.
• We do not believe in the Immortal Soul Doctrine, but they believe good people go to heaven and bad people burn in Hell; believing the soul is immortal.
• We believe the ability to have visions died out with the last of the apostles, they believe they can have visions, speak in various tongues and literal heal people or expel demons.
• We do not celebrate Holidays, but they do, and on the holidays, they reap wealth for not the benefit of the Christian congregation expenses, etc., but for personal gain.
• We believe we are under the New Covenant. They do not believe in the Covenants, and simply mix-match them for their own benefit.
• The list goes on.

Also, it was said before, but what is behind Restorationism is Subordinationism. It is understandable as to why Prosperity preachers would like to throw rocks in our direct, the main fact of our view of Christ Jesus.

Just be careful for assuming terms, when often times the root of an legitimate thing can be traced back centuries.

Always, stay frosty with the research, should you even consider it.

[Equivocation]

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The Restoration Movement has been characterized by several key principles:

• Christianity should not be divided, Christ intended the creation of one church.^[3]:38[11]
• Creeds divide, but Christians should be able to find agreement by standing on the Bible itself (from which they believe all creeds are but human expansions or constrictions)^[12]
• Ecclesiastical traditions divide, but Christians should be able to find common ground by following the practice (as best as it can be determined) of the early church.^[13]:104–6
• Names of human origin divide, but Christians should be able to find common ground by using biblical names for the church (i.e., "Christian Church", "Church of God" or "Church of Christ" as opposed to "Methodist" or "Lutheran", etc.).^[4]:27

Thus, the church 'should stress only what all Christians hold in common and should suppress all divisive doctrines and practices'.^[14]

A number of slogans have been used in the Restoration Movement, which are intended to express some of the distinctive themes of the Movement.^[15] These include:

• "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent."^[16]
• "The church of Jesus Christ on earth is essentially, intentionally, and constitutionally one."^[16]
• "We are Christians only, but not the only Christians."^[16]
• "In essentials, unity; in opinions, liberty; in all things love."^[15]:688
• "No creed but Christ, no book but the Bible, no law but love, no name but the divine."^[15]:688
• "Do Bible things in Bible ways."^[15]:688
• "Call Bible things by Bible names."^[15]:688

Srecko, you didn't get to this part - Restorationism - Wikipedia

So are you talking about anyone who continue after what happened in the 19th century or the ones that changed? Some people actually abandoned Restorationism for the Triune God theology, I am thinking to had the one part about creeds regarding that.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Thinking said:

….yes some if not a lot of witnesses may not be able to ever see this…

It is a sad fact that you blame the ex-JW, like me, for the negligence of your religious leaders. For the cover-up that your religious leaders do with the help of most elders. For erroneous instructions that elders receive and pass on to JW members. For silence about the real situation when cases like CSA, or some other, arise.
JWs have failed to rise to such a level of trust and openness that would allow them to speak publicly at their meetings about everything. About everything and in an equal way, that each member can be able to say everything he needs and wants to say.

I only used this statement of yours to answer you. And that’s because one young JW, 6 years ago, from my former assembly said he didn’t believe in anything about pedophilia, that it was all a lie attributed to JW. 

I am glad that many JWs have not seen and experienced the horrors of CSA. But when such JWs say that everything is a “false rumor” and that David Splane is right when he says at Congress talk, that everyone in the world is lying and only GB is telling the truth, then you need to be very worried.

[Equivocation]

4 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am glad that many JWs have not seen and experienced the horrors of CSA. But when such JWs say that everything is a “false rumor” and that David Splane is right when he says at Congress talk, that everyone in the world is lying and only GB is telling the truth, then you need to be very worried.

@Thinking's point was some things can easily be made a false rumor. No one is oblivious to child sex abuse at all and it is very unfortunate that in an imperfect world people act out their sin. So regarding CSA, anyone can take a story, and mold it into something else. Since we are all mature here, the truth of the matter is in today's world anything about sexual relations can be weaponized, used as a tool to commit harm and or injury. Sadly, this is the case with child sex abuse too. This is why it is important for guardians and or parents to not only talk to their kids about the dangers, but how to protect themselves. I mean, child sex abuse has always been talked about over and over and over again on this forums, but rarely do people take action on the matter, especially the ones who constantly bring it up, sometimes without warning. I'm sure you have access to various social media, by not teach and explain to people how to protect their children instead of being this way - I mean, you did bring up CSA&N a while back, why not apply their teaching?

I dislike child sex abuse, and I am sure you dislike it as much as I do, but taking steps to help, reach one, teach one is beneficial. So Splane is correct on false rumors. Because anyone can take a story and make it apocryphal right out of the gate before any facts are gathered - something of which was done with the Royal Commission.

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

18 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

Srecko, you didn't get to this part - Restorationism - Wikipedia

So are you talking about anyone who continue after what happened in the 19th century or the ones that changed? Some people actually abandoned Restorationism for the Triune God theology, I am thinking to had the one part about creeds regarding that.

 

 

:) i had different link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement

From your link (bold, underline text mine):

In the 1870s, a Bible study group led by Charles Taze Russell formed into what was eventually called the Bible Student movement. Russell's congregations did not consider him to be the founder of a new religion,^[51] but that he helped in restoring true Christianity from the apostasy that Jesus and the Apostle Paul foretold. They believed that other Churches departed in a Great Apostasy from the original faith on major points, and that the original faith could be restored through a generally literal interpretation of the Bible and a sincere commitment to follow its teachings. They focused on several key doctrinal points that they considered a return to "primitive Christianity",^[52] derived from their interpretation of the Bible, including a rejection of trinitarianism, the immortality of the soul, and the definition of Hell as a place of eternal torment;^[53] active proselytization; strict neutrality in political affairs;^[54] abstinence from warfare;^[55] and a belief in the imminent manifestation of the Kingdom of God (or World to Come) on Earth.

Jehovah's Witnesses[edit]

Jehovah's Witnesses emerged as a distinct religious organization, maintaining control of Russell's Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and other corporations. They continued to develop doctrines that they considered to be an improved restoration of first century Christianity, including increased emphasis on the use of Jehovah as God's personal name.^[56

 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

So Splane is correct on false rumors. Because anyone can take a story and make it apocryphal right out of the gate before any facts are gathered - something of which was done with the Royal Commission.

As far as it seems to me, GB member Mr G. Jackson has never before the ARC stated that cases of pedophilia in Australia, and in relation to the Branch Office Australia, are "false rumors".

This means that all the documentation that went back 50 years regarding the CSA  was not (forged) documentation based on "false rumors" by the JW assemblies and JW members/non members in Australia.

[Equivocation]

3 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Russell's congregations did not consider him to be the founder of a new religion,^[51] but that he helped in restoring true Christianity from the apostasy

Yes, however, most ExJWs would say otherwise, I think in the past you made an opposite point. Perhaps for some, when it fits their needs for that week, they'll state it.

The great apostasy was is mentioned here - Great Apostasy - Wikipedia

Around the same time they became active, those that make up the Great Apostasy were around also. Among them Prosperity preachers, or, something I learned today, New Thought Christianity. There were opponents of Restorationism, which dominated the US in those days, especially in the case of some abandoning Restorationism in favor of other theologies. So I did you the favor of providing you the wiki link.

6 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jehovah's Witnesses emerged as a distinct religious organization, maintaining control of Russell's Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and other corporations.

Yes - and their still, quoted from the wiki link, millenarian restorationist Christian denomination with nontrinitarian beliefs distinct from mainstream Christianity.

If we had adopted creeds, the Trinity, immortal soul, etc. that would be a total deviation of restoration of Christianity, wouldn't you agree? Now that I think about it, would have been strange to be preaching the Trinity lol.

But I am still asking this, if you are in your last comment talking about those who continued or changed; 19th century? Legit core teachings in general.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

14 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Russell's congregations did not consider him to be the founder of a new religion,^[51] but that he helped in restoring true Christianity from the apostasy

Yes, however, most ExJWs would say otherwise, I think in the past you made an opposite point.

You gave me link on this. That is your point, i think.