Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's

[John 12.24to28]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

(By the way, greetings and warm Christian affection 🥰 to you, my brother @Srecko Sostar, I think this is the first time we've had the pleasure of conversing on a thread in this forum...)

[John 12.24to28]

On 5/20/2023 at 4:38 PM, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Sir, perhaps you should start a new topic if you want to make your point a debate. This topic is about someone's perception of religion through history.

 

23 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Once again. If you wish to debate your understanding of a false application of a chart, why not start a new topic? Then we can debate your opinion. This was just a mere illustration of the librarian showing another perceptive.

 

17 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

The topic of discussion is distinguishing between authentic religion and counterfeit religion. 

 

12 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

This would be a good discussion on how you don't know anything about elephants while you post there is an elephant in the room that no one seems to see because they are blindfolded. 

What if a person is really blind, is the blindfold necessary? Many questions can be answered if you start a new topic and leave this one as just an illustration, nothing more.

 

10 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

How about starting a new topic to find out.

 

You seem to know a lot about what is and isn't appropriate for a thread. Are you close to @The Librarian, then? Please, if it is good in the eyes of @The Librarian, I am sure someone would start a new thread on whatever topic title you think is appropriate, @MankeptforRacialsecretratters, but if @The Librarian doesn't object, maybe we could keep conversing here if it is appropriate?

[Arauna]

On 5/20/2023 at 2:48 AM, The Librarian said:

hought it interesting to see how others view us....

A PHD in eastern religion - meaning Hinduism or one of those fields and then he converts to Judaism to please his wife.  Does this sound like a religiously serious person who wants to please god or is he more like a cloud?

I like his charts though - I have watched some of his genealogies on certain kings. 

 

[Equivocation]

Just now, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

According to his bio, he creates valuable and informative charts. Coming from atheism, he made an improvement. We just can't rely on internet info.

Especially now with all the A.I. stuff going on lol 😆 

To find anyone who gives regular information that is unbias is like finding pieces of silver in tall grass. 

[John 12.24to28]

On 5/19/2023 at 8:48 PM, The Librarian said:

This Youtuber has Phd in Theological Studies and offers his personal opinions throughout.

I thought it interesting to see how others view us....

 

I think he did an awesome job with this video.

 

Just like organizing closets, there are a lot of ways you can do it, organize and categorize a topic. Matt accomplished his purpose. The chart is organized by time and doctrinal differences and similarities. I think he did a great job making an educational tool for people to assess the history of religious traditions.

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

We just can't rely on internet info

I listened to his video and in it he says he grew up in a religion which is part of the second awakening and says he is now a jew.  So I take his personal word for it. He also mentions his PHD-degree. 

I have used his charts often and I agree he has divided it into easy categories. However, I do not take the opinion on religions seriously. 

[John 12.24to28]

 

Prehistorical theories are based largely on guesses by people who weren't there telling stories about things for which there is no written record by any witnesses (except for what Jehovah as a witness inspired to be written in the Bible).

 

Historical analyses such as this video have a basis in recorded history, documents with absolute dates on them, photographs, etc. Matt analyzed the documents and organized the religious traditions in a way that makes sense to him. Whether or not a person has a degree makes no difference in their ability to tell truth. He's telling the truth as he sees it. 

 

Matt didn't seem to be preaching to anybody about his personal religious persuasion, it seemed like he was just mentioning his personal beliefs in passing. 

 

The same information could be presented in other ways and still be the truth. Instead of making branches based on time of changed doctrine, the various groups could be organized by similar beliefs (example hellfire or Trinity or congregation hierarchy or shunning etc.) or by geographical growth or by socioeconomic factors or something else.

 

The chart helps to identify some interesting parallels between the  modern-day organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and the ancient nation of Israel. The Bible says Israel was the smallest of nations when Jehovah chose to deliver them from Egypt and give them a place, making them a people for His name. Jehovah's Witnesses are tiny compared to many other religions. Additionally, the Israelites were supposed to represent Jehovah, but they ended up doing things worse than the peoples whose land they dispossessed. Today, Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization claim to represent the God of the Bible whose name is identified by the tetragrammaton, and they claim to obey the law of the Christ sent by Jehovah, yet the degree of disobedience to that law is appalling. Organization wide, traditions of men supersede adherence to the Word of God.

 

Just as Jehovah disciplined His ancient Name People when they refused to turn around from reproaching His Holy Name, so it will be the same again today. The Bible shows all religious institutions will be given attention by the nations per God's command, but specifically the one that claims to represent God using His Name will be given extra disciplinary attention for the sake of cleansing God's Name of reproach.

 

"Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him."

 

(Luke 12:48)

 

 

[Space Merchant]

@AudreyAnnaNana But then you have the question addressed. Surely if it was coined about problems in some faiths, the question should be noted. There was reason why I equated it to elephants, lambs works too, granted the follow up to it.

[John 12.24to28]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:54 PM, Space Merchant said:

@AudreyAnnaNana Speaking of Elephants, have you ever questioned why Jehovah's Witnesses, Bible Students and or other Minorites in this paradigm of faith and religion that exist today, let alone why is it that Babylon is targeting all minorities, mainly if being it's focus since the day the Great Awakening took place?

 

36 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

@AudreyAnnaNana But then you have the question addressed. Surely if it was coined about problems in some faiths, the question should be noted. There was reason why I equated it to elephants, lambs works too, granted the follow up to it.

 

Hi, @Space Merchant I apologize, I am not trying to evade your question, I just don't think I understand exactly what you are asking. I am sorry my comprehension isn't perfect. 🙂 Please, would you mind restating what you are asking and I will try to understand better so that I can respond? I am interested in the topic and what you have to say. I just don't think I am understanding the question you are asking well enough to give an answer. Are you asking "why will the nations target all religions" or "why would the nations target some specific sects in a more intense way" or something like that or something different? I do apologize for not understanding the question you asked. Can you help me understand better what you mean?

[John 12.24to28]

2 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

How do you know he's telling the truth?

 

6 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

He's telling the truth as he sees it. 

 

Maybe it's similar to people who use puppets to communicate, or who type stuff into Chat GPT to get a scripted response...when "Gonzo" speaks, it's truth from "Gonzo's" point of view. When "Alexa" speaks, it's truth from "Alexa's" point of view. 😉

 

(I suppose only the puppet master and the programmer really know if they're "telling the truth" from their point of view or not. And Jehovah, of course, who knows All Things.☺️)

 

Matt doesn't seem like a puppet, but I don't really know, I've never met him. His words could be put to the "Window Test"...we could go to the library and read up on the topics mentioned in his chart, and do deeper research. (Or maybe we already have researched those topics before?)

 

"Does not the ear test out words

As the tongue tastes food?"

 

(Job 12:11)

 

 

"For the ear tests words

Just as the tongue tastes food."

 

(Job 34:3)

 

2 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

I think people try too hard to make an inaccurate point.

 

I agree with you. Some people do try too hard to make an inaccurate point. Here are a couple of examples...

 

https://escholarship.org/content/qt0jb324tq/qt0jb324tq_noSplash_2d90f6ae587973457d6cbe5e6241a24f.pdf

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aar5954

 

The anthropologists and archaeologists in the above two "studies" made up a lot of stuff that can't be verified. They use fancy words but it doesn't make it verifiable. 

 

Matt's chart is just organized based on what makes sense to him. But the groups he is talking about are real. He can organize them on a chart how he wants, it doesn't change the "truth" that those groups exist or existed.

[John 12.24to28]

51 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

If you accept the chart, then you have not done enough research. It seems that conducting the window test by a single person can provide more accurate results, and it is a preferable method. Not one with many in one mind.

If I accept a deck of cards from you, I can arrange them by suit, or by number, or I can attempt to build a house of cards with them. The cards don't change, just how I organize them changes. How Matt wants to organize certain Christian groups is his prerogative. The research I referred to was researching that those groups exist or existed.  You can prefer whatever method of organizing them pleases you, mi' lord.

 

51 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

It's not about the groups. They do exist. It's about the formation of those groups that truth fails. Yes, he can organize what makes sense to him. That doesn't make it accurate unless you are willing to prove it, not by words but through actual research.

 

What "truth" are you talking about? What "accurate" are you talking about? Maybe you would be willing to 'splane it.  It's a chart with the names of some religious groups written on it. While the chart shows some basic generalized branches, the only truly accurate completely detailed chart would show each individual in each group and what religious persuasion they originated from, how their views changed over time and where they are at present. Only Jehovah knows all that. And what good would all that info be to anyone anyway? The real information we need is free anyway...

 

"Buy truth and never sell it."

 

(Proverbs 23:23)

 

"...let anyone who wishes take life’s water free..."

 

(Revelation 22:17)

 

"You received free, give free."

 

(Matthew 10:7)

 

 

 

[Arauna]

9 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Matt started publishing his old teaching resources and charts online and turned the hobby into a business.

It is not easy to make charts - one needs the tools and also time to study the history of similarities and lineage.  So one should not be sidetracked by other details - focus on the lineage or broad similarities. 

He put the JWs with Mormons in a group - one can almost not see a connection in there but I understand why he put it there because they all are part of the second awakening and are not trinitarians. I would not go deeper than that. He had to put us somewhere!  So I understand his thinking. As I said - I am familiar with some of his work. It is interesting that someone can make a living by doing something they like.