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Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses

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3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In period of 1980 and on JW magazine talking about, as i read in this magazine, only women as victims. Second, WT talking about issue as a sin, not crime that have to be handled by secular authorities. 

And WT was seen perpetrators as persons who, if repent enough,  are as other ordinary sinners. 

So, i have to ask; IF GB and His Holy Nation and Only Organization on Earth not received much more better Instructions, from Heaven, in this matter - What makes WTJWorg so better from others in the past time  (from 1980 period on, because GB members loved to mention on TV how this Organization was almost first that spoken about this issue) ?  

Surely one who was sexually abused as a child can be certain of God’s understanding and loving acceptance. Why, Jehovah forgives even those who, unlike the abused child, commit gross sins—if they repent and change their course of action!1 Corinthians 6:9-11. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w19831001/help-for-victim-of-incest/

From this it can be seen how "Scriptural Based Position" looks like. Child molestation is a gross sin that can be handled without much fuss in Judicial Committee of elders. 

 

Next thing: 

Thanks for link you provide. There is 3 point that is modern, advanced (21 century) view  made by WT. And they said;

A) Child sexual abuse is a perversion

B) Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and view it as a crime.

C) Child abuse is a serious sin.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/legal-resources/information/packet-jw-scripturally-based-position-child-protection

 

When and how GB WTJWorg came to this NEW Instructions and attitude about issue?? With a Little Help of people who are under "devil control". When Courts, experts for child healthCommissions and other Secular Institutions made more talking and made some pressure on religious and other group, institution who HAVE Problem with this. 

Until today, as what i know,  WT Legal Department are not willing to fully cooperate with Courts and other Secular authorities in benefit to victims. Some victims want money, and why not. Because WT victims was not and perhaps will never heard Words of Sincere Repent and Apologize from all those who make them so miserable because not handled their matters and problems in a way that would imitate Heaven's Love, Comfort and Justice.  JWorg web was never, until now, said how GB and other people in position (elder) made (and making still now) big errors and not handled this properly in harmony with all good Instructions that can be found in The Holy Book and in Secular Books too.

Until now NO Public Apologize to Victims! Perhaps, and if they do it public, it would not be sincere ??!!  

This public attitude on JW TV how WT are purely innocent is something disgusting.

I almost cried when I read your comment here. In fact I am crying now. Thank you for your understanding of such things.

Warmest Christian love, John 

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3 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Sound!!

Have you not read your bible. did not the Pharisees 'clean the outside of the bowl or cup and not the inside'.

Have you no understanding of how Satan works ?  

Keeping the child Abuse quiet and within the '4 walls' of the Org give the false impression that the Org is 'clean and safe'. 

There is also the possibility that those at the top of the 'tree' may be deeply involved in such abuse. The GB itself, some of them, may be 'on file' as being involved in such things. Not a direct accusation but a possibility. If not then why are they sooooo keen to withhold the information from the courts ? 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

why did they refuse to obey the law of the land by refusing to hand over thins information to the courts ? 

Since the much-hyped penalty for not doing this was later thrown out by another court, it ought to be clear that it was not the law of the land. Rather, a certain court was exceeding its authority.

The Kavanaugh hearings also ought to have made clear that the lauded impartiality of the world’s justice system is but a bad joke. Law is not the issue. One’s interpretation of law is the issue and that is forged in emotion which is forged in one’s personal experience.

Your pre-Witness experience gives you knowledge of the depravity that humans can sink to. But it also makes you prone to see it everywhere.  It is rather like a Holocaust survivor seeing Hitler everywhere.

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Maybe the tree you refer to is the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, a rotten tree giving off rotten fruit. And the forest I'm looking at seems to prove my point.

The poverty-stricken person of a developing nation is stuck with 200 year old turkey of a translation that he can neither afford nor understand because nobody other than the GB sees anything inappropriate about Big Business overseeing the distribution of God’s word.

That is the forest: the distribution and subsequent education in God’s message to humankind.

The tree is your pre-Witness history with regard to child sexual abuse, a background that does not afflict one in a thousand.

 

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44 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Since the much-hyped penalty for not doing this was later thrown out by another court, it ought to be clear that it was not the law of the land. Rather, a certain court was exceeding its authority.

The Kavanaugh hearings also ought to have made clear that the lauded impartiality of the world’s justice system is but a bad joke. Law is not the issue. One’s interpretation of law is the issue and that is forged in emotion which is forged in one’s personal experience.

Your pre-Witness experience gives you knowledge of the depravity that humans can sink to. But it also makes you prone to see it everywhere.  It is rather like a Holocaust survivor seeing Hitler everywhere.

And from you viewpoint the victims of all the Child Abuse in the JW Org Earthwide are just 'Collateral damage'.  And as most of the GB are American they seem to have that attitude too.  Hide it, forget it, don't report it, call the victims liars, and keep on pretending the Org is clean. 

But as Luke 8 v 17 makes clear, it all is revealed in the end. 

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11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And from you viewpoint the victims of all the Child Abuse in the JW Org Earthwide are just 'Collateral damage'.  

This exactly makes my point. This is pure emotion. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the passage you used to segue into it. It is nothing more than your unhinged hatred of the GB speaking. You suffered abuse in pre-Witness days such as does not afflict one in a thousand. The ‘upside’ is that you know how depraved humans can be. The downside is that you think they all are when child sexual abuse has occurred.

As reported on this thread or elsewhere (I’ll relocate it if I have to) two thirds of professionals REQUIRED BY LAW to report suspected abuse fail to do it. Are they all vile? Plainly, other factors are at work, but you can see only one.

 It is as stated before: You are too close to a particular tree to properly assess the forest. You were tied to a tree that was rotten. You think they all are.

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14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The Kavanaugh hearings also ought to have made clear that the lauded impartiality of the world’s justice system is but a bad joke. Law is not the issue. One’s interpretation of law is the issue and that is forged in emotion which is forged in one’s personal experience.

I watched the Kananaugh Senate Hearings this past Thursday for the whole 9-1/2 or so hours, and was VERY impressed.  I also watched on Friday the Committee's deliberations that moved his nomination along ... about 3 hours.  I was very impressed once again.

How much, TTH, did YOU ACTUALLY WATCH, to form your opinions as stated?

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19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In period of 1980 and on JW magazine talking about, as i read in this magazine, only women as victims

I didn't notice that. Which magazine was that?

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Second, WT talking about issue as a sin, not crime that have to be handled by secular authorities. 

Obviously it is both. The main objective of the WT is to prevent child sexual abuse.  Interestingly, secular articles on this subject also take that as their main objective. Not only that, but they are aware that secular authorities are not the only solution. Read this secular article here:

http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/tell_others_the_facts.html

19 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Surely one who was sexually abused as a child can be certain of God’s understanding and loving acceptance. Why, Jehovah forgives even those who, unlike the abused child, commit gross sins—if they repent and change their course of action!1 Corinthians 6:9-11. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w19831001/help-for-victim-of-incest/

From this it can be seen how "Scriptural Based Position" looks like. Child molestation is a gross sin that can be handled without much fuss in Judicial Committee of elders. 

That's not what I understood from that article at all. It was clearly talking about helping a victim of incest, it was not focusing on the perpetrator. And it is true, Jehovah can forgive ANY sin if the person turns around (unless it is a sin against the holy spirit). The article was merely pointing out that if the victim feels like they have done something bad, and it is their fault, (and many victims do feel this way) that they shouldn't feel like that, because if Jehovah can forgive an repentant perpetrator, how much more so will he understand and comfort the victim!

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

A) Child sexual abuse is a perversion

B) Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and view it as a crime.

C) Child abuse is a serious sin.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/legal-resources/information/packet-jw-scripturally-based-position-child-protection

 

When and how GB WTJWorg came to this NEW Instructions and attitude about issue?

What makes you think this is new?

WT 1988 /4/15 page 11. par.6

"Distrust has increased because of another growing fear in our day: the fear of becoming a victim of crime. Many now do like the woman who said that she sleeps with a revolver under her pillow. Another fearful woman said: “I resent it. . . . My grandmother never locked her doors.” Thus, a newspaper editorial in Puerto Rico declared: “The ones who are imprisoned are us,” yes, in our own barred and locked homes. These fears are well founded. In the United States, for example, one woman in three is likely to be assaulted during her lifetime. The surgeon general there noted that “some four million Americans fall victim to serious violence every year—murder, rape, wife-beating, child-abuse, muggings.” Such crime is common in many lands, further damaging the trust that people have in others".

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

With a Little Help of people who are under "devil control". When Courts, experts for child healthCommissions and other Secular Institutions made more talking and made some pressure on religious and other group, institution who HAVE Problem with this. 

I think it would be good if you got some facts from secular articles on child sexual abuse, like this one: https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Statistics_6_Reporting.pdf

I am sure if you Googled "child sexual abuse" in your own language you would come across similar articles. Don't read about the Witnesses, read about what is happening in your country: https://www.24sata.hr/news/u-hrvatskoj-je-lani-seksualno-zlostavljano-cak-848-djece-523418

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Until today, as what i know,  WT Legal Department are not willing to fully cooperate with Courts and other Secular authorities in benefit to victims. Some victims want money, and why not. Because WT victims was not and perhaps will never heard Words of Sincere Repent and Apologize from all those who make them so miserable because not handled their matters and problems in a way that would imitate Heaven's Love, Comfort and Justice.  JWorg web was never, until now, said how GB and other people in position (elder) made (and making still now) big errors and not handled this properly in harmony with all good Instructions that can be found in The Holy Book and in Secular Books too.

WT has NEVER shielded or protected known perpetrators. The GB have not mishandled cases of child abuse, the elders have. Elders have apologized to victims where possible. The whole organization cannot be held responsible for every case that happens in congregations. Have you personally had experience of having to handle an accusation of child molestation by someone in the congregation? If not, then you cannot know what you are talking about. If yes, then please let us know what happened.

 

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7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This exactly makes my point. This is pure emotion. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the passage you used to segue into it. It is nothing more than your unhinged hatred of the GB speaking. You suffered abuse in pre-Witness days such as does not afflict one in a thousand. The ‘upside’ is that you know how depraved humans can be. The downside is that you think they all are when child sexual abuse has occurred.

As reported on this thread or elsewhere (I’ll relocate it if I have to) two thirds of professionals REQUIRED BY LAW to report suspected abuse fail to do it. Are they all vile? Plainly, other factors are at work, but you can see only one.

 It is as stated before: You are too close to a particular tree to properly assess the forest. You were tied to a tree that was rotten. You think they all are.

I think we should get a few points straight.

The Child Abuse / Pedophilia problem within JW Org is NOT A SMALL ONE.

It is an Earthwide problem, not just 'a few' people. It has been going on within the JW Org for many years, 50 years in Australia it seems.

For at least 20 years the GB have been collecting accusations of Child Abuse in the USA. 

Many many many of the victims have said they were told NOT TO REPORT IT TO THE POLICE OR OUTSIDE AUTHORITIES.

Many of them have said they were not believed because of the TWO WITNESS RULE.

Jesus said, 'If anyone stumbles the least of these little one it would have better it they has a millstone tied around their neck and they were thrown into the sea'. Do you believe these words of Jesus ? 

We know about Child Abuse  / PEDOPHILIA in the JW Org in  : Australia, Canada, America, the Netherlands and the UK.

I have no info' of child abuse in other JW countries, but I would think it is happening everywhere.

If ten people come forward to tell of their abuse then probably 100 more have not come forward. So we have no way of knowing how many have been abused. So this silly idea of giving a percentage means nothing.

I am blaming the GB because they make the rules, not according to scripture but according to their own preference.

If only half of the accusations are true it is still too many.

As for comparing the JW Org and or GB to, 'professionals REQUIRED BY LAW to report', that's like comparing God's organisation to Satan's world. There should be no comparison. It does not matter what those so called 'professionals' do or do not do. If you believe the GB are the 'faithful slave' then even you should expect the GB to serve Jehovah properly. 

Serving Jehovah properly would mean taking care of 'widows and orphans' 'little ones' everyone within the Christian Congregation. And that would mean keeping the Org clean and free of Pedophiles. 

In my opinion that means that EVERY ACCUSATION OF CHILD ABUSE IN EVERY COUNTRY SHOULD BE REPORTED TO THE POLICE OR AUTHORITIES. And the GB should have handed over the 20 years worth of documents to the court whether it was 'the law or not'. 

But as i say, Collateral damage. Brothers, sisters, children. All destroyed just to keep the Org looking clean.

You keep pretending I'm over emotional, if it serves your purpose, if it keeps your conscience clear. 

I'll keep distrusting the Governing Body as I know clearly in my mind they are not the 'faithful slave' they are the 'wicked slave that says the master is delaying in coming'.   

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9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I watched the Kananaugh Senate Hearings this past Thursday for the whole 9-1/2 or so hours, and was VERY impressed.  

If I recall correctly, you are also VERY impressed with the Terminator, Jack Reach, and Die Hard movies. Here, I admit, my screen time is slim.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You keep pretending I'm over emotional, 

You write that way. Whether you are or not, how would I know?

You cannot mishandle something that you never attempted to handle. JWs did the best they could in cleaning house when few others had any interest in doing likewise. The fact that cases from 2000 on do not present themselves (they are ever from the 80s and 90s) suggests that whatever problems there were, they have been corrected.

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