EVIDENCE THAT ISLAM ALLOWS CHILDREN TO ENGAGE IN SEX BEFORE MENSTRUATION

[Jesus.defender]

“A muslim man can have sexual pleasure with a little girl as young as a baby. But he should not penetrate her vaginally, however he can sodomize her”. (Tehriro vasyleh, fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990)
 

 

EVIDENCE THAT ISLAM ALLOWS CHILDREN TO ENGAGE IN SEX BEFORE MENSTRUATION

First, we need to establish that Islam allows female children to be married and engaged in sex prior to their first menses (prepubescent). For that we turn to the Islamic source materials. Starting with the Quran:

If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those who have not menstruated. As for pregnant women, their term shall end with their confinement. God will ease the hardship of the man who fears him. 65:4, Dawood

Brother Sam Shamoun comments on this verse:

The surrounding context deals with the issue of the waiting period for divorce, and remarriage. The Quran is telling Muslims to wait for a certain period of time before making the divorce final or deciding to forego it. The Quran exhorts men to wait a period of three months in the case of women who either are no longer menstruating or haven’t even started their menstrual cycles! (Source)

Since Muslim men are to wait 3 months before divorcing a prepubescent child it means that they have been engaging in sex with those children.

 

Borrowing from Sam’s work (*) I quote three Islamic scholars commentary related to 65:4 and the subject of sex with prepubescent children:

Ibn Kathir writes regarding 65:4

<divorce them at their `Iddah>, "The `Iddah is made up of cleanliness and the menstrual period." So he divorces her while it is clear that she is pregnant, or he does not due to having sex, or since he does not know if she is pregnant or not. This is why the scholars said that there are two types of divorce, one that conforms to the Sunnah and another innovated. The divorce that conforms to the Sunnah is one where the husband pronounces one divorce to his wife when she is not having her menses and without having had sexual intercourse with her after the menses ended. One could divorce his wife when it is clear that she is pregnant. As for the innovated divorce, it occurs when one divorces his wife when she is having her menses, or after the menses ends, has sexual intercourse with her and then divorces her, even though he does not know if she became pregnant or not. There is a third type of divorce, which is neither a Sunnah nor an innovation where one divorces A YOUNG WIFE WHO HAS NOT BEGUN TO HAVE MENSES, the wife who is beyond the age of having menses, and divorcing one's wife before the marriage was consummated. (Source; bold and capital emphasis ours)

Al-Tabari said regarding 65:4

The interpretation of the verse "And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubt (about their periods), is three months; and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise". He said: The same applies to the 'idaah for girls who do not menstruate because they are too young, if their husbands divorce them after consummating the marriage with them.

Tafseer al-Tabari, 14/142 (Source: Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
(Question #12708: Is it acceptable to marry a girl who has not yet started her menses?)

Regarding sex with prepubescent children, Abu-Ala’ Maududi states:

"Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl at this age but it is permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible." (Maududi, volume 5, p. 620, note 13, emphasis added)

It is clear: Muslim men can engage in sex with prepubescent children!

[JW Insider]

On 5/15/2016 at 10:40 PM, Jesus.defender said:

Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur’an has held as permissible."

About the same with Judaism. The usual arguments from early rabbinic leaders and commentators within Judaism point to the same thing. Most discussions of approved marriage age for girls in early Judaism considered the time of menses (sometimes age 8 or 9) to be most appropriate. Some discussions pointed to age , or 12 or 12.5. However, since the Bible doesn't forbid marriage and sex with prepubescent children and therefore, the argument was advanced that no Jew has the right to forbid a thing which the Torah has held as permissible. Rabbinical leaders even looked to the Bible for the earliest possible years of marriage and found that there was evidence that Rebekkah may have married Isaac at age 3. (Whatever evidence this was is either too obscure or non-existent in current Bible texts.)

The discussions about age 3 as opposed to menses which rarely occurs even as early as 8 or 9, is actually found in Midrash/Mishnaic writings of Judaism. Here's a portion of the discussion as found here, where the source quotes primarily from quoting from Teugels and Peeters:

• “Conversely, if a girl is three years and one day, she can be betrothed by sexual intercourse.” He continues writing, “Obviously, the Mishnah does not say that a woman should be betrothed at the age of three or hat this is a standard age to do so. It is, rather, mentioned as the minimal age.” (Teugels, L. M. (2004). Bible and Midras: The Story of ‘The Wooing of Rebekah’ (Gen. 24). Peeters, Bondgenotenlaan. pp. 218-220)

 

• Teugels in his discussion on the subject also cites Judith Hauptman who writes: “After three, if a man has sex with a girl, not only does he cause her to lose her virginity permanently, but also- and precisely because of this-the sex act has a variety of legal consequences for both of them: for him, if she were forbidden to him, he will be punished in the same way as if she were a mature woman; for her, if the sexual relations were for the sake of marriage, they will make her a married woman.” (Ibid. pp. 218-219)

Of course, women were considered property in Biblical Judaism, which is one of the reasons that even in the Christian Bible, it is mentioned that a man could get a legal divorce, not a woman. But Jesus mentioned that at least one portion of the Law was given by Moses, not because the Law was righteous in that place, but was a compromise out of regard for the hard-heartedness of the people.

• (Matthew 19:8) . . .He said to them: “Out of regard for your hard-heartedness, Moses made the concession to you of divorcing your wives, . . .

Surely, it was a level of hard-heartedness --lack of love-- that would start men thinking about marrying a girl at age 8 or 9. Or men (fathers) giving away their daughters in marriage at age 8 or 9. How much worse was it for men to be discussing the potential Biblical acceptability of age 3? And the discussion was not just about marriage, but about sexual intercourse (consummation). This is obvious from the discussion of the ensuing flow of blood, and if there were a difference between this flow of blood and that which might occur at a later time in the same girl's life. 

As property, however, a wife did have some additional rights over a foreign slave, and over a Jewish slave. Under the Mosaic Law, a man could beat his slave girl to death and there would be no punishment as long as it took the girl more than a day to die. (Exodus 20:20,21).

• (Exodus 21:20, 21) 20 “If a man strikes his slave man or his slave girl with a stick and that one dies by his hand, that one must be avenged. 21 However, if he survives for one or two days, he is not to be avenged, because he is someone bought with his owner’s money.

But other places, even the very next verse shows that a wife has more value. Also, if a Jewish man under God's law were to sell his daughter as a slave (even a concubine, which is a type of sex slave) that daughter has some ccompensaory rights if she is dismissed that a male slave would not have. 

• (Exodus 21:7-11) 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not go free the same way that a slave man does. 8 If her master is not pleased with her and he does not designate her as a concubine but causes her to be purchased by someone else, he will not be entitled to sell her to foreigners, for he has betrayed her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he is to grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife for himself, the sustenance, the clothing, and the marriage due of the first wife are not to be diminished. 11 If he will not render these three things to her, then she is to go free without paying any money.

There are problems for all religions in areas where they show themselves unwilling to progress away from the ancient written laws towards a law of love.