Caption this photo for me please

[INTREPID TRAVELLER]

AbigailSenseful

The ARC Report IS NOT GENERALISATION ! ITS FACT - GET THAT INTO YOUR THICK SKULL !

"""Even if these allegations are true, who are you to sit in judgment as if you yourself is clean, perfect, and undefiled?""" Lawdy you are switched off !

The GB of the JW movement sits in judgement of its flock all the time - even to the point of Disfellowshipping victims of child abuse.

You have judge me - How do you know what my relationship with Jehovah is at this time? You don't ! So don't judge me.

And as to "looking for flaws" - SORRY - I have no need to Look! The reports are hitting us in the face these days - its all over the media - [ oh of course the Media is making this all up - Satan's hand in matters .........blah blah fishpaste ! ]

Ann - o - M ......the suffering caused to victims of child abuse is NOT A FUN TOPIC - I will use any form of activism to denounce the JW stance on this and any forum I can access to "put it out there"

You have only to hear the harrowing testimony of Octogenarian victims of the British Abuse Cases perpetrated against vulnerable children who we shipped off to Australia [currently underway in the UK] to realize the damage that this causes.

This forum is used by people who would rather we saw the JW dot Org as this squeaky clean ever so righteous organization that would never harm anyone - "spiritual paradise" WELL ITS NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL.

Now READ THE REPORT and then YOU will be able to judge it and not try to lecture me first !

 

[Fmadriaga]

On 2/25/2017 at 5:14 AM, The Librarian said:

 

 

Caption this photo for me please

 

 

Via

CHILD ABUSE

[Queen Esther]

On 24.2.2017 at 7:14 PM, The Librarian said:

What  mystery, different  thoughts  circling  in  BOTH  brains....

ONLY  God  will  know  it !

 

Caption this photo for me please

 

 

Via

 

[AbigailSensefulOne]

On 2/28/2017 at 0:57 AM, INTREPID TRAVELLER said:

AbigailSenseful

The ARC Report IS NOT GENERALISATION ! ITS FACT - GET THAT INTO YOUR THICK SKULL !

"""Even if these allegations are true, who are you to sit in judgment as if you yourself is clean, perfect, and undefiled?""" Lawdy you are switched off !

The GB of the JW movement sits in judgement of its flock all the time - even to the point of Disfellowshipping victims of child abuse.

You have judge me - How do you know what my relationship with Jehovah is at this time? You don't ! So don't judge me.

And as to "looking for flaws" - SORRY - I have no need to Look! The reports are hitting us in the face these days - its all over the media - [ oh of course the Media is making this all up - Satan's hand in matters .........blah blah fishpaste ! ]

Ann - o - M ......the suffering caused to victims of child abuse is NOT A FUN TOPIC - I will use any form of activism to denounce the JW stance on this and any forum I can access to "put it out there"

You have only to hear the harrowing testimony of Octogenarian victims of the British Abuse Cases perpetrated against vulnerable children who we shipped off to Australia [currently underway in the UK] to realize the damage that this causes.

This forum is used by people who would rather we saw the JW dot Org as this squeaky clean ever so righteous organization that would never harm anyone - "spiritual paradise" WELL ITS NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL.

Now READ THE REPORT and then YOU will be able to judge it and not try to lecture me first !

 

Wow; apparently I must have struck a nerve.

Lecture you? Ok, TRAVELLER; listen up and listen good.

First of all, before I even responded to you I did read those links you shared on this forum and, what is more, I already knew about these cases long before you made it an issue here, as well as the ones that YOU don't even know about. So, what makes YOU  think I'm not aware of this happening in the organization? No one said Jehovah's organization is squeaky clean and ever so righteous as you so eloquently put it. Don't even go there suggesting I'm naive. Let me tell you buddy; I've seen and know just about everything the Apostle Paul mentioned in 2 Corinthians 6:9, 10; from Circuit Overseers, to Elders, to Missionaries, Special and Regular Pioneers, to publishers. EVERYTHING! Those who suppose to shepherd the flock were disfellowshiped for fornication, adultery AND homosexuality! Missionaries kicked out of their assignments for immorality. Pioneers swapping their spouses, Publishers raping other publishers, etc. I even know of about a brother who killed his wife so he could continue his affair with a porn star! So don't even ASSume I'm looking at the Spiritual Paradise with rosy-colored glasses on! I've seen it all! But just because I have 37 years in the Truth does not give me license to use this forum to broadcast every deplorable thing that goes on inside Jehovah's organization! That I refused to do! This is a forum to encourage one another. What's so encouraging about what you posted? Sadly, you must think the majority of us here, like Tom, are downplaying the serious nature of these events and we're not. It's just that we choose to find strength in knowing that sexual predators and those who use religion as a cover to abuse children will get what's coming to them by means of Christ Jesus' sword. And that right soon!

Second: What is your motive? When you posted these links, the first thing I asked myself was why? Why did you take the merriment out of a photo meant to project humor only to harp on this disgusting tragedy when it is up to the ultimate Judge of us all - Not the Governing Body, not the Elders - JEHOVAH GOD who sees and knows everything?!  Judge you? Who, me? I don't have to Judge you; you judged yourself. Posting these depressing news articles is suppose to do what? Make the majority of us question the Governing Body's motives?  Yeah, you talk about your advocacy but even that is questionable. Advocate the real solution - what Jehovah is going to DO about those who prey on children and who violate His righteous laws, whether it's the Governing Body or Elders. No one is exempt from the day of His wrath. And about this forum. I thought it is for encouragement and sharing theocratic news; what's going on around the world in harmony with scriptural prophecies. That's what this forum is for. You are obviously not using it for that purpose. My point is that you used this opportunity to negate the photo with child sex abuse within Jehovah's org. rather than find the humor in it as it was suggested, and as many here have humorously contributed to. You took it to another level and it reeks of criticism! It's as if you pacified the Pope to unleash on your brothers!

Now, here's something for you to wag your finger at since you defensively done so with me - Q: What do you have to say about those who were sexually abused as children by worldly people? That is also NOT A FUN TOPIC! So many of Jehovah's people were - and some still are - victimized by Shechemites in this world. Are you exempting them just because they are worldly? What encouragement would you offer a sister or brother who were subjected to or are being subjected to such abuse by worldly sexual predators? Would you plaster links all over this forum about it? Just wondering if you would have the same passionate advocacy for these victims as you do for Ann and the others.

Third: As far as your personal relationship with Jehovah; you're right. I don't know how close you are to our precious Father. But I do know, as your spiritual sibling, you took the fun out of things and I'm telling you about it whether you like it or not. Get mad all you want to. Go and tell our Heavenly Father on me. Go ahead! Perhaps he'll lovingly chastise us both for making a mountain out of a mole hill. Or you'll get over it and move on. 

Now get all this through your thick skull.

Wow; apparently I must have struck a nerve.

Lecture you? Ok, INTREPID TRAVELLER; listen up and listen good.

First of all, before I even responded to you I did read those links you shared on this forum and, what is more, I already knew about these cases long before you made it an issue here, as well as the ones that YOU don't even know about. So, what makes YOU  think I'm not aware of this happening in the organization? No one said Jehovah's organization is squeaky clean and ever so righteous as you so eloquently put it. Don't even go there suggesting I'm naive. Let me tell you buddy; I've seen and know just about everything the Apostle Paul mentioned in 2 Corinthians 6:9, 10; from Circuit Overseers, to Elders, to Missionaries, Special and Regular Pioneers, to publishers. EVERYTHING! Those who suppose to shepherd the flock were disfellowshiped for fornication, adultery AND homosexuality! Missionaries kicked out of their assignments for immorality. Pioneers swapping their spouses, Publishers raping other publishers, etc. I even know of about a brother who killed his wife so he could continue his affair with a porn star! So don't even ASSume I'm looking at the Spiritual Paradise with rosy-colored glasses on! I've seen it all! But just because I have 37 years in the Truth does not give me license to use this forum to broadcast every deplorable thing that goes on inside Jehovah's organization! That I refused to do! This is a forum to encourage one another. What's so encouraging about what you posted? Sadly, you must think the majority of us here, like Tom, are downplaying the serious nature of these events and we're not. It's just that we choose to find strength in knowing that sexual predators and those who use religion as a cover to abuse children will get what's coming to them by means of Christ Jesus' sword. And that right soon!

Second: What is your motive? When you posted these links, the first thing I asked myself was why? Why did you take the merriment out of a photo meant to project humor only to harp on this disgusting tragedy when it is up to the ultimate Judge of us all - Not the Governing Body, not the Elders - JEHOVAH GOD who sees and knows everything?!  Judge you? Who, me? I don't have to Judge you; you judged yourself. Posting these depressing news articles is suppose to do what? Make the majority of us question the Governing Body's motives?  Yeah, you talk about your advocacy but even that is questionable. Advocate the real solution - what Jehovah is going to DO about those who prey on children and who violate His righteous laws, whether it's the Governing Body or Elders. No one is exempt from the day of His wrath. And about this forum. I thought it is for encouragement and sharing theocratic news; what's going on around the world in harmony with scriptural prophecies. That's what this forum is for. You are obviously not using it for that purpose. My point is that you used this opportunity to negate the photo with child sex abuse within Jehovah's org. rather than find the humor in it as it was suggested, and as many here have humorously contributed to. You took it to another level and it reeks of criticism! It's as if you pacified the Pope to unleash on your brothers!

Now, here's something for you to wag your finger at since you defensively done so with me - Q: What do you have to say about those who were sexually abused as children by worldly people? That is also NOT A FUN TOPIC! So many of Jehovah's people were - and some still are - victimized by Shechemites in this world. Are you exempting them just because they are worldly? What encouragement would you offer a sister or brother who were subjected to or are being subjected to such abuse by worldly sexual predators? Would you plaster links all over this forum about it? Just wondering if you would have the same passionate advocacy for these victims as you do for Ann and the others.

Third: As far as your personal relationship with Jehovah; you're right. I don't know how close you are to our precious Father. But I do know, as your spiritual sibling, you took the fun out of things and I'm telling you about it whether you like it or not. Get mad all you want to. Go and tell our Heavenly Father on me. Go ahead! Perhaps he'll lovingly chastise us both for making a mountain out of a mole hill. Or you'll get over it and move on. 

Now get all this through your thick skull.

[ARchiv@L]

http://wol.jw.org/el/wol/mp/r11/lp-g/g/2014/100

 

[Arauna]

I am not writing this to cause a debate - I'm actually tired of people who have the education to gather a lot of  'information' but have not learnt to think about all sides of an issue and put it in perspective.  They become stuck on the information and then they judge everything on this one-sided information and become belligerent.

1.  Sexual abuse of children is in every organization on earth - wherever there are children. This is why we see government institutions intermittently in the media where children were found to have been abused - the tip of the iceberg - even though the perpetrators know the penalty if caught .  This practice is insidious and 'hidden' and it is hard to pinpoint and it is prevalent amongst  ALL levels of society - judges, doctors, policemen, gardeners. People can also be falsely accused - but one should always act to protect the child.

2. People who react so nasty to religious child abuse (whatever the church or organization) - look back at time with "modern" views. They know that it is not accepted by law -  now - but what about 50 years ago?  Most people do not look at the history of the 'laws' against child abuse.  

3.  Governments are now launching inquiries so they can be seen to be 'doing something about the issue" and trying to understand the issue.  Why only now?  Because decent laws to protect children have only been in place for a relative short period of time - in most first world countries. Children have been suffering for a very long time, long before this overwhelming outcry, cases coming forward, and media attention been given to it in the past 30 years.  Why were governments negligent to bring laws against child sexual abuse for such a long time and why was the media complicit in its silence?

Only 50 years ago - only the first world countries - started to look at this problem.  Before this - society was closed and it was a taboo subject to talk about.  The sixties brought a sexual revolution when people started to talk openly about sex but it took another 15 years before people started to mention this taboo subject in public. I also know that reporters did not write much about the issues regarding this.  Some countries had insufficient laws and procedures which made it impossible to prosecute a child molester.

I was working for a newspaper myself (not an English one) and a case came up where the entire nation was shocked because a child molester had stolen kids and murdered them.  I told my friend, who was a reputable reporter, to use this time of media attention - to bring to the attention of society - that most people could not take a child molester to court because a child could be cross-examined in court.  This meant that even a small child had to become a "victim" a second time by having to face the perpetrator in court and then be cross-examined. Most often a conviction could not be had. The way evidence was collected also did not favor the child.

I know that a law (to protect the child during court proceedings in America) was only ratified as late as 2003.  Consequently - if I were a lawyer in a court case where millions was to be paid out - I will point to finger to the lawmakers (congress) - who were supposed to be the protectors of its people.   If there were not proper laws in place to get a proper conviction - why would an organization put themselves out there and fight the legal system - whatever the organization? 

After all these inquiries (Australia, England) into child abuse and the procedures followed by religious organizations - hopefully these governments will bring in laws to cover the holes still left in the legal system and provide clarity to (religious and other) organizations on proper government procedures to follow when someone is accused of child abuse.

 4.  There are many countries with laws against child abuse - but the age of consent is between 12 - 14 years. Belgium comes to mind (13).  Most pedophiles travel to Thailand and other countries to indulge in pedophilia.  There are many countries across the world with strong laws against child abuse but it is never enforced because child abuse is not viewed as an important issue - they have more pressing problems such as hunger or socio-economic problems.  It is part of daily life in some third world countries.  What this indicates to me is that world-wide organizations, who have children in their midst at any time, have to try to adapt to the many different laws (in many countries - child marriage is still allowed) and cultures regarding this issue.

5.  We expect religious organizations to have 'higher' standards - but in the past no-one spoke of these things and people did not know how to deal with it....with lawmakers and media complicit.  The Watchtower organization has not been perfect but it has adjusted and put the best possible procedures in place for every country (but it will never be fool-proof, perfect or sufficient).  Child molestation is not an easy crime to determine.  One needs experts to examine each case - and even experts can be fooled. 

6. Religious organizations cannot ban people - so child molesters can attend meetings if they wished.  This is why it is important for brothers and sisters to obey instructions to take their own children to the toilet, to let their children only visit with supervision etc. An unbelieving relative like a grand-father can perpetrate this crime (happened to a friend of mine).   So to sum up - parents are responsible for the safety of those in its family unit - and it has never been easy to intervene in family affairs if the father is the perpetrator. This is why it is better that it becomes the government's responsibility!  It seems that governments are now doing enquiries into the procedures of organizations - so they can put proper laws and procedures in place to take up this responsibility in a proper way -  at last!

In the end - it is only Jehovah who will do the final judging of all people who have lived on earth. He is justice personified and he is the one who sees the things that go on in secret. He promises that all suffering will be done away with under his future government and it will not even come to mind of the victim!

I live in Sweden now (who is in denial of all the rapes going on) and I read recently that a case was thrown out of court - a young woman who was raped by six refugees. The reason: she must have consented. My husband made the comment that even a woman who makes her money by this way of life will not consent to violent sexual actions by 6 different men.... but this is where our world is heading now.  No More justice....

 

 

[Queen Esther]

@INTREPID TRAVELLER  Yes,  you  are  right,  NOBODY  has  to  jugding  you !  ONLY  ONE  has  the  right  to  do  that,  ONLY  Jehovah !!  We  must  be  very  careful....

@Arauna  Thank  you  very  much  for  that  detailed  comment...  very  good !!

[INTREPID TRAVELLER]

The Point has been made -

As to advocating the real solution...............this is precisely why there are so many victims .....because we have all  been sitting on our hands .....waiting for Jehovah's day of intervention and doing nothing to address the Present Day tangible problem within the Org.

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 8:04 PM, AbigailSensefulOne said:

Q: What do you have to say about those who were sexually abused as children by worldly people?

That is why we are working for a "worldly" NGO dealing with this issue + other related horrors - Yes there are "worldly ...soon to be destroyed at Armageddon" people out there who are WORKING to assist victims...See ! Action People - Tackling the problems ASSISTING  the victims - Not striving to portray an image of "Squeaky Cleanness" when it actually does not exist- and doing squat to attend to the ones that Jehovah and Christ truly love -

And give the lady a G [Good] for Repetition for Emphasis

Friday 10th March the follow up on the ARC in Australia commences - It will be broadcast live. Maybe we will all be surprised by the Organizations response ! We hope ....

FINIS

[Arauna]

Yes there have been victims - as I said before - in every organization where children are you will find that this happens in secret.  It is heartbreaking.  But because you work in this field you are focusing just on one organization which you seems to dislike.  Please keep in mind this organization has put steps in place to curb this as much as possible and has corrected errors which it has made in the past.... it did not act fast enough to the new laws that were put in place in the first world countries (and only a few countries enforce it). 

I personally know of a case where a young boy had only touched his cousin in an inappropriate place out of curiosity and the father went to a lawyer- who reported it to authorities.  This young boy was put into a reformatory at age 13 with his reputation ruined for the rest of his life.  This is how the law can also overreach.  There are two sides to every story.... and therefore one must acknowledge that human laws are just not sufficient to curb all wickedness..... and bring true justice.

The alternative is to spy on everyone and create a police state situation. And this is the reason I said above that God assures us that there is a future life and all the injustices of the "past" and present" will be dealt with personally by Him. One either believes that God is going to do this  - or not. We cannot help 'all' people who have suffered from this crime BUT.... they are being reached by the Kingdom message.  If their pain is very great they can find consolation and comfort from Jehovah's promises.

Many people only focus only on the 'now - the present'  and not on these promises.  If you are one of these people, I then suggest you start fighting religions where it is part of their religion to allow "thighing"  of young children already at the age of one year (the practice of sex on young children without penetration) - that is, if you really want to accomplish something and clean up all dirty" organizations and sexual crimes on earth.  Become an activist for all the children in Africa who are raped on a daily basis with no-one to stand up for them.  Or focus on religious organizations that are still moving their clergy around even though there now are new laws being put in place to assist them.  Do not focus on the one organization who is really trying to be aware of the problem while not excluding anyone with "repentance" to attend a meeting.  Or are you hardline on this too..." once a criminal - always a criminal" label"?

I personally do not believe that molesters reform easily - but there may be a few who do - and therefore I understand the measures that has been put in place by our organization.

I have told this incident before on this forum: a friend of mine brought a young boy to the meeting without his mother accompanying him. Afterward an elder called her and told her that it was a "fine" thing to bring him but she must not do it again.  She must be cautious and careful because people can turn around and accuse her of child molestation.... A simple act of kindness can turn into a nightmare.

Most people in the organization are "clean" as you said  but Jesus himself said that there would be people within the congregation that will be "enemies" of the congregation and will bring reproach on it through their (secret) behavior. This is why God promises that these will receive their due from Him - all those who do NOT have the mark of survival given by the angel with the "inkhorn" will perish.  This angel is Jesus who is leading the "marking work" - and he knows all things that go on in secret.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 3/5/2017 at 1:21 AM, Arauna said:

Become an activist for all the children in Africa who are raped on a daily basis with no-one to stand up for them.  Or focus on religious organizations that are still moving their clergy around even though there now are new laws being put in place to assist them.  Do not focus on the one organization who is really trying to be aware of the problem while not excluding anyone with "repentance" to attend a meeting.

There should not have been another thread. You said it too eloquently.

Anna, who starts the now never-ending thread, protests that she did not deliberately start it. Her remarks were shuffled about by the overlords to make it appear as though she started it. How that came about I haven't traced. Who cares? It should have ended with you.

Don't you hate it when you give so much effort to organize points so well as you have done and then find a few days later it is as though you never existed?

On 3/5/2017 at 1:21 AM, Arauna said:

Do not focus on the one organization who is really trying to be aware of the problem while not excluding anyone with "repentance" to attend a meeting. 

I have seen none of the proceedings so I don't really know. I'm not holding my breath. But I am beginning to wonder, just possibly, if Jehovah's organization might emerge from this in the eyes of the authorites as honest, decent, ready to repair and help, and that the negative buzz about them originates from person who have their own agenda.

[The Librarian]

Maybe I should have been much more clear in the beginning.

I feel similar to @Anna in that I was only wanting funny captions..... and look what has happened. Sigh.

We should all try to practice opening new topics when forking a conversation in the future. Or is it that my inner Librarian is just not feeling organized?

Anyways.....

[ARchiv@L]

you are @The Librarian 

thank you for your pages !!