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JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"


Jack Ryan

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3 hours ago, Anna said:

I had in mind the Cedar, which I think is tree 1

I think it wooden matter.

3 hours ago, Anna said:

Which books is this from?

Several groups of  "Russellites" use a convention that you'll see in the HTDB (Harvest Truth DataBase) which can be found here: http://www.htdbv8.com/about.html

If a link starts with an A through F, then it refers to Russell's Studies in the Scriptures series. Therefore the D in D543 is the 4th volume ("The Battle of Armageddon") and the next numbers are the page number in the edition printed closest to 1916. R refers to the Zion's Watch Tower and the "Watch Tower" reprints, which were in several volumes, but the page numbering runs from 1879 to 1916. R362 is a very early one (June 1882) and R5527 is a very late one in Russell's career (Sept 1914). Q is the Question Book. (Actually it's a compilation called "What Pastor Russell Said.")

I just use the links the same way they are used on htdb.

 

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First of all, before I begin answering, I wanted to say that I have long expected that any JWs who go online to defend their views publicly will see more and more of what is beginning to happen here.

The original post states that "JW.org Says "Apostates are Mentally Diseased." Whilst true, what is ommitted is that JW.org  is reflecting the Bible's view. Apart from what has already been quoted

Yes. I wrote up a post on this at the time and included how other translations handled the verse. An excerpt:   (from https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/who-is-mentally-diseased.html ) “Mor

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Guest Tom Henry
17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Tom said previously how every person who are not in line with Jesus teachings (JW or not JW) is mentally ill. It seems how all authors and all who approved what was written in WT publications had mental issues and that is main reason for revision of doctrines. Just repeating Tom's idea with new wording :))) 

I would disagree with your tactics in word usage. Even in Jesus time, someone could have thought Jesus to be insane for stating he was the "son of god" if not for the proof Jesus provided to assure everyone he was. Did that prevent the Jews from trying to stone him for blasphemy?

The same way there are witnesses that condemn the way the Watchtower is running. The point and balance is with sanity. Personal sanity. All other things don't matter. Words here don't matter. Peoples opinions don't matter. What does matter, would be how each of us worship God the same way Jesus taught it.

Changing Jesus context as it's done here is an endeavor to subvert the truth. So, no, I wouldn't include every JW but I would include the teaching of Jehovah's witnesses as the closest thing to the actual first century teaching of Christ.

56 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Several groups of  "Russellites" use a convention that you'll see in the HTDB (Harvest Truth DataBase) which can be found here

You must have missed there is a 7 and a 9. Seven was the first and 9 is the latest. Not all Bible Students share the same history as how the Bible Student movement started. Some SB's do consider their early advent works, when there was none with Russell.

A good reason not to elect Elders that persuade its members to mythical conclusions.

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53 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

No, not at all.

Okay got it! Just letting the readers know there are differences in some areas with those databases.

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5 hours ago, Tom Henry said:
23 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Tom said previously how every person who are not in line with Jesus teachings (JW or not JW) is mentally ill. It seems how all authors and all who approved what was written in WT publications had mental issues and that is main reason for revision of doctrines. Just repeating Tom's idea with new wording :))) 

I would disagree with your tactics in word usage

If you don't mind, i put down copy paste, partially the text you made, what i understand and  see as your stand: 

Mentally diseased means anything but what is scripturally stated in 1 Tim. 6:3, 4. FALSE TEACHERS. Anyone that misleads by the teaching of Christ and God’s words is mentally diseased, not just apostates.

I was going again through our text and saw this detail:

Tom: Anyone that misleads by the teaching of Christ and God’s words is mentally diseased, not just apostates.

Srecko: Tom said previously how every person who are not in line with Jesus teachings (JW or not JW) is mentally ill.

Yes, here we have some differences in wording and in marking what sort of people are "mentally ill".

You pointed on those group of people who "handle" with Jesus' words and misleading others while doing that. Who are those people? Nominal clergy class, elder class, GB? Or, and also members of church, congregation, who by repeating what they learned from their "teachers" also spreading false teachings?

Because all this sort of classes, i mentioned, participate in such activity, i would understand how all of them are "mentally ill", because of final outcome you pointed with: they misleads (other people) by the teaching of Jesus, that in fact is not His teaching.

In my resume on your comment, i said: ....  how every person who are not in line with Jesus teachings (JW or not JW) is mentally ill.

I do not see any tactics in word usage from my part, because both class of people, those who misleads other and those who are mislead by other (by first class) are and come to be "mentally ill" because of bad spiritual food they have eaten and still eating.

I hope this will clarify our wording and understanding of what was said and thought with expressed words. :))

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On 11/8/2019 at 8:50 AM, JW Insider said:

True,up  to a point. I heard the same thing you posted from the convention and took it to mean that we no longer think of the millions of persons who have left because of no longer believing as apostates. The speaker said that we do not include those who "drift away" as apostates. Only those who deliberately push away with a bitter, haughty, defiant attitude.

I felt I needed to catch the speaker's words; they were, “apostates do not drift away from the truth”.  In my household, there are four individuals who use to live the life of a JW; me, a widely known disfellowshipped “apostate”, my husband who is not disfellowshipped but never hesitated to reveal the organization’s hypocrisy to the elders while still “in”, my son and daughter-in-law who eventually quit going to the meetings, and are not disfellowshipped but shunned by all JWs they may happen to see.  My daughter-in-law’s parents refuse to visit their daughter and grandchildren.  Out of the four of us, I am the only disfellowshipped vocal one, the other three just walked away, yet all of us are treated the same. 

Because of the act of shunning, wouldn’t you say that all four in our house are considered, “apostates”?

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On 11/7/2019 at 3:45 AM, Equivocation said:

@Witness But you are just making assumptions, nothing more. 🤔

Also no, because the focus was on the term, Mentally Diseased, but we see that you're adding quite a bit.

Why not start another thread instead of adding on?

But the question still remains, if the term Mentally Diseased is in connection with what we see in Scripture correlating with this term, Mentally Depraved concerning specific individuals, why consider us in the wrong for pulling from the Scriptures itself?

In a simple term, do you agree with what is read in the letter to Timothy or not?

I like to add that this isn't anything new, others will simply term it as, Mentally Broken or Mentally Lost, Ill Minded, Diseased Mentality, and the list goes on. An odd one I heard that even alludes to the Scriptures is "A Broken Basket". This I only heard once lol, I dunno where the girl I met learned that from but when I talked to her, she only says this about people who is quick to start something without having all their facts in order, which is no different from an Apostate starting problems for Christians.

Do you at least have a citation or a source? 🤔

I still couldn't find that "God" source of yours, so I am just going to check "False" on that multiple choice paper.

And again, you're quite on the passage mentioned earlier and what Outta Here mentioned.

"WHAT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF THOSE PARTAKING AT THE MEMORIAL? In recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of those partaking at the Memorial of Christ’s death. That trend contrasts with the decrease in the number of partakers that we saw for many decades. Should this increase trouble us? No. Let us consider some key factors to keep in mind. “Jehovah knows those who belong to him.” (2 Tim. 2:19) Those taking the count at the Memorial cannot judge who truly have the heavenly hope. The number of partakers includes those who mistakenly think that they are anointed. Some who at one point started to partake of the emblems later stopped. Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven. Therefore, the number of partakers does not accurately indicate the number of anointed ones left on earth." Watchtower 2016 Jan study ed page 25 & page 26
"Memorial partakers. This is the number of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors — including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance — might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know." Watchtower 2011 Aug 15 p.22
"Over the years some, even ones newly baptized, have suddenly begun to partake. In a number of cases, after a while they acknowledged that this was an error. Some have recognized that they partook as an emotional response to perhaps physical or mental strain. But they came to see that they really were not called to heavenly life. There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives." Watchtower 1996 Aug 15 p.31
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Should we be concerned that Brothers and Sisters increasing getting heavier and heavier every year is a lack of self control?

They may be depressed, have anxiety, or other emotional disturbances that may play a roll in their increasing obesity.

There is every reason to believe that it is spoons that make us fat..

 

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Thanks @Matthew9969 for using WT magazines. This articles shows how GB want to present us, how mental illness was not started with "apostates" in recent time.

Wording "mental illness" is connect with WT Society context about result, outcome that is seen in JW members who think how they are sort of people who belongs to people known as 144000 class. 

They numbered several reasons why some JW member thinks about self as King and Priest aka part of 144000. They say:

in 1996

-after a while they acknowledged that this was an error

-an emotional response

-perhaps physical or mental strain

in 2011

-past religious beliefs

-mental or emotional imbalance 

in 2016

-mistakenly think that they are anointed

-mental or emotional problems 

It is obvious how WT Society is organization who looks on one part of members as people who have not mental and emotional balance. Perhaps GB say so, because of Jesus words how he is send to ill, sick people, and that also including physical, mental and emotional defects.

But we see how GB put this explanation on exactly one specific class or group of individuals inside organization - "anointed". On all anointed individuals who are outside of GB... or Helpers. Well, here we see how few anointed  individuals who are in position to call themselves as FDS who sharing spiritual food, decided to sending message through publications how only them are mentallyphysically and emotionally in perfect health. All other are in question.  

Well, where insane people living? Inside or outside sanatorium?  

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