Musing on prayer

[xero]

I've been feeling weird of late w/regard to prayers. I'm praying, like Jesus told me, to the Father. I ask him and talk to him on the basis of Jesus and his office as high priest and king, however if prayer is respectful speech to God, then what is respectful speech to Jesus? Am I not supposed to talk to him? All authority is given him in heaven and on earth by Jehovah, so recently I've been feeling that I'm treating Jesus like a simple messenger and go-between, which he certainly IS as a mediator, but not at all simple. But am I not allowed to talk to him? Is he not my Lord and Savior? I talk to the brothers. I listen to them. They give advice (mostly biblical) but it seems I never talk to Jesus, but always past him or through him. Of course Christendom flips this around and never talks to Jehovah, or confuses Jesus w/Jehovah or the trinity.

Anyway...I'm just thinking aloud.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20150101/should-we-pray-to-jesus/

It just feels wrong to not talk to your Lord and Savior.

[Witness]

25 minutes ago, xero said:

It just feels wrong to not talk to your Lord and Savior.

Truthfully, I am touched by your expressions.  I hope you will consider the balanced view of an anointed one, other than those of your leaders:

Question:  "In light of Stephen praying to Jesus, at Acts 7:59; is it proper to pray to Jesus?"
---
My Reply:

Imagine that Jesus is our father (Isa 9:6) and Yhvh is our grandfather.

There is no distinction between fathers and grandfathers, in the Bible (John 8:39), so all ancestors, were called "Father". 

So when Jesus taught us to pray, he called his Father, our Father (Matt 6:9) even though in a sense, he is our grandfather, because Jesus is the direct father (Isa 9:6; John 1:4).

We have a relationship with both fathers. We also have a relationship with our spiritual mother. (Gal 4:26; 1 Thess 2:7; Gal 4:19)  

 When we have a loving relationship with those who are responsible for our care, do we not speak openly to each one of them?

There are times when we need to speak to our father...

other times when we want to speak directly to our grandfather (through the name of Jesus)...

and times when we need to talk with our mother.  (The faithful anointed under the New Covenant "woman")

It was the mindset of JWs, that gave us the rigid idea that we should be cut off from speaking to our mother and father... but only speak to our grandfather, by name ("Je-hovah" (which name belongs to the Destroyer).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/11/who-is-destroyer.html

How interesting! How well would a child do... who could not speak to it's parents... but only to an outside impostor who sought to mislead and destroy them? 

My point, is that whoever it is that you need to speak with, that is the one you should pray to.

Love in Christ,

Pearl

 How To Pray

 

 

[Anna]

4 hours ago, xero said:

I've been feeling weird of late w/regard to prayers. I'm praying, like Jesus told me, to the Father. I ask him and talk to him on the basis of Jesus and his office as high priest and king, however if prayer is respectful speech to God, then what is respectful speech to Jesus? Am I not supposed to talk to him? All authority is given him in heaven and on earth by Jehovah, so recently I've been feeling that I'm treating Jesus like a simple messenger and go-between, which he certainly IS as a mediator, but not at all simple. But am I not allowed to talk to him? Is he not my Lord and Savior? I talk to the brothers. I listen to them. They give advice (mostly biblical) but it seems I never talk to Jesus, but always past him or through him. Of course Christendom flips this around and never talks to Jehovah, or confuses Jesus w/Jehovah or the trinity.

Anyway...I'm just thinking aloud.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20150101/should-we-pray-to-jesus/

It just feels wrong to not talk to your Lord and Savior.

Intetesting question. I can understand why you are asking these questions, and you give good reasons for asking them.

The article you posted a link to shows why prayer is only appropriate for God, but you are right when you ask is there anything wrong with having some kind of communication with Jesus. 

Here is just my opinion: during the memorial season we are supposed to reflect on what Jesus has done for us, and read scriptures pertaining to that. Well perhaps when  reading the gospels we can "communicate" with Jesus in the sense that we think about him and his life and thank him for his love for us. Jehovah sent his beloved son because he loved us, but Jesus didn't have to go, like all of God's creatures he had free will. Jesus came to earth and allowed himself to be killed because he was fond of mankind, so like Jehovah, he loves us. His feelings for us are evident in the Gospels, and we can imagine how he would communicate with us were he on earth now. So through the scriptures we can feel close to him and we know he feels close to us, and he talks to us, and we can talk to him while we are reading them. 

Also, because we direct our prayer through Jesus, Jesus is also the recipient of our prayers in a way. (But I don't think this is what you had in mind). 

Just a suggestion, you might want to post questions like this in the JW Only club. But it's up to you of course. If you want imput from ex JWs as well then you are in the right place.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

If you want imput from ex JWs as well then you are in the right place.

JW Open Club and JW Only Club in one place - The Forum. People can go on two "sources" with the simple move of "mouse" :))

Thanks for giving "credit" to ex members (and new ex members :) ) whose words have certain meaning and some value to given readers.

[Evacuated]

7 hours ago, xero said:

It just feels wrong to not talk to your Lord and Savior.

Understandable emotional reaction. There are many Scriptural examples of the way in which Jehovah's spirit representatives handled the responses of humans to their interaction, both literally and in vision. These together should inform our understanding of appropriate behaviour.

Perhaps a discussion on those examples would be well served in the JW Only section. Leaving it here as well might provide an interesting contrast in direction.

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, xero said:

what is respectful speech to Jesus? Am I not supposed to talk to him? ...Anyway...I'm just thinking aloud.

I guess I never really thought of it that way. Jesus himself sets the example  as to whom to pray to. He appears perfectly content with his role of “simple mediator” and I’m not sure I would want to do end runs around it, as though it is enough for most people, but not enough for me—as though I have extra appreciation and extra love, so I have to speak with Jesus, too.

Can you pass along a simple hello or some such appreciation just to him? Well, I dunno, maybe you can, but in doing so I begin to feel that maybe I am trying to be more appreciative than God, more righteous than he, more loving than what he lays upon Christians to do through his written word. 

Is it a little like when Jesus makes to wash Peter’s feet, Peter says “No way!” then upon reproof, says “also my head my hands!” and Jesus says, “Just do the feet, won’t you? That’s enough. That works. You don’t have to go beyond it.”

I think when we fervently thank God for the gift of his dear son, which we especially do around Memorial time, Jesus counts it as enough. If we say, “I must talk to Jesus, too,” will he not say pretty much what he said to Peter?”

We can’t just waltz in and talk to either one of them as though we are chums. The only reason we can speak freely with Jehovah is through the merits of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. What is the basis for speaking directly to Jesus? 

Why not say hi to all the angels, too? They also do plenty in our behalf, though of course, they don’t approach Jesus. 

I’m sure its not the worst faux pas. The sentiment probably is appreciated, as when Jesus did not think ill of Peter for wanting the complete bath. But having laid out the “chain of communication,” I am not sure the merit—and it may even cause offense—to try to go beyond it. Jesus is perfectly content that all glory should go to the father. Having done that, does he say, “You know, it would be nice if you thanked me, too?” There’s no indication of it.

He himself takes no liberties with avenues of communication. When immersed in a squabble over Moses’ body, he says to the Devil, “May Jehovah rebuke you!” He doesn’t say, “Well, I am the son, the first-born. Surely I can handle this one.”

Same as you, just thinking aloud.

(I notice that the “balanced view of an anointed one” (Witness) ends in the same way that her typically unbalanced views do—that the GB is no good, and that you ought to consider her and her “renegade anointed” as your true source for guidance.)

 

[Srecko Sostar]

The following thesis should be considered. If Jesus became King, with all "authority in heaven and on earth," in 33 AD or in 1914 AD, as you wish, than we come to a dilemma;

If Jesus is your King, from whom should you ask, pray for mercy, blessing, help, etc.? From his Dad or from Him who is The King?

According to WTJWorg teaching, JHVH is The Grandfather, already (think in book "Prince of Peace" they put this). Also, Witness explained in her illustration this moment. If the interpretation of the Biblical words is correct (about the surrender / return of the power of the Son to the Father, after 1000 years) from 1 Cor. 15, we shall have different situation about Who is Who in the Universe. 

Then we have in John 14 6; Jesus said to him, “I am the way + and the truth + and the life. + No one comes to the Father except through me.
But we also have John 6 44; No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, ..

Interesting and complicated, at least for me. 

If there is freedom of communication, at least (even if) only in our head, then we can "talk" to whoever we want. After all, only a few have literally heard a reaction to their words, according to Bible.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

8 hours ago, xero said:

Am I not supposed to talk to him?

Now the serpenta was the most cautious* of all the wild animals of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?”

Oh dear, can no one else see this ? So is @xero just another aka for CC, BtK, Allen. Saying he is an Elder just to throw people off the scent.

When Jesus was speaking to His followers, that would be of the Anointed, Jesus said 

John 14 : 13 & 14

"Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. ¹⁴  If you ask anything in my name, I will do it."

This instruction is only for the anointed ones but Jesus is not saying ASK ME, Jesus is saying ASK GOD - in my name. 

We know this conversation was for the anointed because Jesus then said 

¹⁶  And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, ¹⁷  the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you.

Yes the spirit of truth remains with and in the True Anointed ones. 

I think you should be careful with this Xero aka. The Memorial is close and people's emotions are built up high. Of course we are grateful to Christ for giving his life, but Christ taught his followers to pray as recorded at Matthew 6 from v 9

 “You must pray, then, this way:i“‘Our Father in the heavens, let your namej be sanctified. ¹⁰  Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth. ¹¹  Give us today our bread for this day; ¹²  and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.  And do not bring us into temptation,q but deliver* us from the wicked one.’

 

[TrueTomHarley]

48 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I notice that the “balanced view of an anointed one” (Witness) ends in the same way that her typically unbalanced views do—that the GB is no good, and that you ought to consider her and her “renegade anointed” as your true source for guidance.)

The woman is too much. Even the GB members do not say “I hope you will consider the balanced counsel of an anointed one.” When they speak, they make clear that it is as one of a “multitude of counselors,” in which there is wisdom.

Nails on a chalkboard anyone?

[xero]

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The woman is too much. Even the GB members do not say “I hope you will consider the balanced counsel of an anointed one.” When they speak, they make clear that it is as one of a “multitude of counselors,” in which there is wisdom.

Nails on a chalkboard anyone?

Sometimes I'm thinking I have no business talking about anything. I imagine myself smirking and laughing at someone elses' pecadillos and sins (are they?) and meanwhile a cement pie is headed for my own face.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The woman is too much. Even the GB members do not say “I hope you will consider the balanced counsel of an anointed one.” When they speak, they make clear that it is as one of a “multitude of counselors,” in which there is wisdom.

Actually the GB say that ONLY THEY are the F&DS and the GB say that 'God and Christ trusts the GB so then every JW should trust the GB' 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 minute ago, xero said:

Sometimes I'm thinking I have no business talking about anything. I imagine myself smirking and laughing at someone elses' pecadillos and sins (are they?) and meanwhile a cement pie is headed for my own face.

If she’d lay off with her venom directed to the GB, I’d leave her peccadillos unremarked upon. I like those guys.