The 144k and the GB...gnostics?

[Matthew9969]

Could they be considered gnostics?

*** w05 1/15 p. 15 par. 21 Christ—The Focus of Prophecy ***Only his faithful anointed disciples would discern his royal presence. In the next article, we will see how that insight would have a profound effect on them, culminating in the gathering of millions who would become Jesus’ earthly subjects

*** ip-2 chap. 15 p. 228 par. 23 The Barren Woman Rejoices ***23 Verse 13 of Isaiah chapter 54 provides the key—all will be “taught by Jehovah.” Jesus himself applied the words of this verse to his anointed followers. (John 6:45) The prophet Daniel foretold that during this “time of the end,” the anointed would be blessed with an abundance of true knowledge and spiritual insight. (Daniel 12:3, 4) Such insight has enabled them to spearhead the greatest educational campaign in history, spreading divine teaching in all the earth. (Matthew 24:14) At the same time, such insight has helped them to see the difference between true religion and false. Isaiah 54:12 mentions “boundaries of delightsome stones.” Since 1919, Jehovah has given the anointed an ever clearer understanding of the boundaries—the lines of spiritual demarcation—setting them apart from false religion and ungodly elements of the world. (Ezekiel 44:23; John 17:14; James 1:27) They are thus set apart as God’s own people.

*** w00 5/15 p. 11 par. 6 Pay Attention to God’s Prophetic Word for Our Day ***6 In this time of the end, many faithful Christians have ‘roved about’ in the pages of God’s Word, the Bible. The result? With Jehovah’s blessing on their efforts, true knowledge has become abundant. For instance, anointed Witnesses of Jehovah have been blessed with insight, enabling them to understand that Jesus Christ became heavenly King in the year 1914.

*** km 3/00 p. 8 par. 4 Studying Daniel’s Prophecy ***4 Prepare well for the study each week, and enjoy participating in it. Appreciate your privilege of associating with Jehovah’s visible organization and benefiting from the insight and understanding provided by his faithful anointed ones.

*** dp chap. 17 p. 292 par. 11 Identifying True Worshipers in the Time of the End ***: “The ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever.” Who are “the ones having insight” today? Again, the evidence points to the same “holy ones of the Supreme One.” After all, who but the faithful anointed remnant had the insight to discern that Michael, the Great Prince, began standing as King in 1914?

*** dp chap. 18 p. 309 par. 7 Jehovah Promises Daniel a Wonderful Reward ***In our own day, the anointed have been blessed with spiritual insight, shining as beacons of truth in this bedarkened world.

*** w98 2/15 p. 19 par. 7 Glorious Freedom Soon for the Children of God ***Meanwhile, God granted his anointed servants, born-again Christians, noteworthy insight.

*** w87 7/1 p. 23 par. 10 Divine Blessings for “the Ones Having Insight” *** “The ones having insight” are clearly the faithful remaining members of the anointed Christian congregation, who are ‘filled with accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension.

*** w81 3/1 p. 26 Do You Appreciate the “Faithful and Discreet Slave”? ***This indicates that the congregation of Christ’s anointed disciples, those having insight, would be watching for the Master’s return and be found faithfully providing spiritual food at the proper time when he returned.

*** w70 11/15 p. 690 par. 22 The Need to Know What We Worship ***The anointed remnant of “people who are knowing their God” have been the ones that have prevailed, and this due to having insight.

*** w60 2/1 p. 90 par. 37 Part 31—“Your Will Be Done on Earth” ***They act with insight and keep walking in their integrity or blamelessness toward God. Realizing their being anointed with Jehovah’s spirit to preach, they do preach, that they may “impart understanding to many.”

[xero]

No I don't think so.

https://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Gender/Gnosticism.htm

The gnostics considered Jehovah a demiurge and evil for having created the material world, and that material in general was evil.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Could they be considered gnostics?

Definition of gnosticism

: the thought and practice especially of various cults of late pre-Christian and early Christian centuries distinguished by the conviction that matter is evil and that emancipation comes through gnosis - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gnosticism

This is similar or the same to Jesus' words; "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

 

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός, romanized: gnōstikós, Koine Greek: [ɣnostiˈkos], 'having knowledge') is a collection of religious ideas and systems which originated in the late 1st century AD among Jewish and early Christian sects.[1] These various groups emphasised personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) above the orthodox teachings, traditions, and authority of the church......Gnosis refers to knowledge based on personal experience or perception. In a religious context, gnosis is mystical or esoteric knowledge based on direct participation with the divine. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

WTJWorg has its own collection of unique religious ideas and teachings. Own system. In the JW church the emphasis is on personal friendship with God and obedience to Jesus ’brothers on earth aka GB. Because, GB has a special insight into knowledge and can interpret the Bible correctly. Participation with the divine is achieved through personal Bible study and WTJWorg publications, prayer, and regular attendance at meetings where “truth” can be heard about all that will contribute to the salvation of the congregation.

 

What is gnosticism? How did it come into being?

Gnosticism is a term that's etymologically connected with the word "to know." It has the same root in English, "kno" is related to "gno" the Greek word for gnosis. And Gnostics were people who claimed to know something special. This knowledge could be a knowledge of a person, the kind of personal acquaintance that a mystic would have with the divine. Or it could be a kind of propositional knowledge of certain key truths. Gnostics claim both of those kinds of knowledge. The claim to have some sort of special knowledge was not confined to any particular group in the second century. It was widespread, and we have such claims being advanced by fairly orthodox teachers such as Clement of Alexandria, we have similar claims being advanced by all sorts of other teachers during that period. - https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/heretics.html

On JWorg library we can read this:

However, there is one kind of knowledge that does promise everlasting life. Conversely, if you did live forever, you could take in useful knowledge forever. Jesus said in prayer to God: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) ...................Is taking in knowledge of God and Christ beyond our capacity? No. .................Around the globe, experience has shown that the most efficient way to acquire this knowledge is by means of a personal Bible study guided by someone who has already grasped the material..................Your relationship with God is a personal matter between you and the Creator. Only you can maintain and strengthen it, and only he can grant you everlasting life. Therefore, you should continue a personal study of his written Word. By having someone come to your home on a regular basis, you may find it easier to reserve time for study. ......Since the Bible and Bible study aids contain “the very knowledge of God,” it is most appropriate to take good care of them. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20050415/Taking-in-Knowledge-Now-and-Forever/

Also: 

This difference between general and accurate knowledge is implied in the Greek Scriptures. The original Greek speaks of gnoʹsis, knowledge, and e·piʹgno·sis, accurate knowledge. ...........Therefore, gaining accurate knowledge of the truth as taught in the Bible is a key to salvation. ..............So how can we obtain this accurate knowledge? By personal study and meditation, along with prayer and meeting attendance. This means a constant recharging of our spiritual batteries, as it were. We cannot afford to rely only on the knowledge we initially gained when we accepted the truth. Continually, we have to take in solid spiritual food, accurate knowledge, by means of conscientious personal study...................As we learned in the preceding article, Bible Greek conveyed a subtle difference between the two degrees of knowledge. And as we dig, we want to know more about the difference between these two expressions as they apply to Christians. Why are knowledge, gnoʹsis, and accurate knowledge, e·piʹgno·sis, essential for Christians? Where can we find the answer? In the Bible encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures................... If you wanted to pursue a more exhaustive study of “knowledge” and related terms, you could use the Indexes of the Watch Tower Society’s publications, which are available in a number of languages. .............With these and other study aids published by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, what beautiful “hid treasures” we can find! - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1989883 and https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1989884

Thus, the way to acquire “knowledge” is through the personal study and publications of WTJWorg which is the source of accurate religious knowledge of God. 

1. The Philosophical Character of Gnosticism

Gnosticism, as an intellectual product, is grounded firmly in the general human act of reflecting upon existence. The Gnostics were concerned with the basic questions of existence or “being-in-the-world” (Dasein)—that is: who we are (as human beings), where we have come from, and where we are heading, historically and spiritually (cf. Hans Jonas, The Gnostic Religion 1958, p. 334). These questions lie at the very root of philosophical thinking; but the answers provided by the Gnostics go beyond philosophical speculation toward the realm of religious doctrine and mysticism. However, it is impossible to understand fully the meaning of Gnosticism without beginning at the philosophical level, and orienting oneself accordingly. - https://iep.utm.edu/gnostic/

10 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

The prophet Daniel foretold that during this “time of the end,” the anointed would be blessed with an abundance of true knowledge and spiritual insight. 

Now we come to the next part. According to these words all "anointed ones" could, should come to "true knowledge of the truth". However, in the WTJWorg Administration, things are different. The “anointed ones” who decide what knowledge is and who decide how and when that knowledge will be made public is GB. GB is the Church Body of all anointed and non anointed believers and are also called FDS.

In the GB context, it is clearly intended to make it clear that, personal study of the Bible and WTJWorg publication and individual prayer cannot be successful on the path to salvation if it is not subject to GB and Organization.

[xero]

I see.

[TrueTomHarley]

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Is taking in knowledge of God and Christ beyond our capacity? No. .................Around the globe, experience has shown that the most efficient way to acquire this knowledge is by means of a personal Bible study guided by someone who has already grasped the material.

Bolding WT publications such as this one, do you imagine you have uncovered some dark mystical “gnostic” secret? Or is this not the way knowledge of anything is acquired? If you want to be an electrician, isn’t the best way to put yourself in close association with someone who has already grasped the material?

Knowledge in the case of this Watchtower quote is not the hidden knowledge of the Gnostics. It is Bible knowledge, available to all. All that is needed is a guide. 

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The “anointed ones” who decide what knowledge is and who decide how and when that knowledge will be made public is GB.

And it apparently works. The Bible tenets that describe Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jehovah’s Witnesses alone are found nowhere except where the GB is taking the lead.

That there is no immortal soul, no trinity, use God’s name, kingdom a real government, everlasting life on earth, why God permits evil, exactly how the ransom works, what happens to the dead, and so forth. Few Christian denominations teach even one of these. No one teaches all of them. Only where the GB is present does it happen. In that sense, though G Jackson was ridiculed for it, he is exactly right. They serve as “guardians of doctrine.” Where they are not present, doctrine is scattered to the four winds..

Nor do they “decide what knowledge is” in the sense you imply—simply making things up as though from a secret “gnostic” source. In all cases it is from the Bible. They point people to it—no more—after which it is clear the Bible itself does the instructing. As in the following case:

“Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?”  He said: “Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guided me?” And he entreated Philip to get on and sit down with him.” (Acts 8:31-32)

There is nothing mystical about the know in this verse. It’s not gnostic. It is just plain and simple knowledge of the scriptures. The eunuch just needed someone with a key to unlock it. 

[xero]

Nice reply Tom. I was just going to reply w/this...

But your reply is better.

[TrueTomHarley]

40 minutes ago, xero said:

Nice reply Tom. I was just going to reply w/this...

But your reply is better.

I wanted to reply with that, but couldn’t find it.

[TrueTomHarley]

21 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Definition of gnosticism

: the thought and practice especially of various cults of late pre-Christian and early Christian centuries distinguished by the conviction that matter is evil and that emancipation comes through gnosis - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gnosticism

This is similar or the same to Jesus' words; "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

So Jesus is a cult leader is what you are saying.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, xero said:

Nice reply Tom. I was just going to reply w/this...

Don't abuse animals, or else Swedish Jesus will come to your house riding a giant dress shoe and close a car trunk on your head, punch you and punish you in various ways. Is this your reply?  

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Or is this not the way knowledge of anything is acquired? If you want to be an electrician, isn’t the best way to put yourself in close association with someone who has already grasped the material?

Knowledge in the case of this Watchtower quote is not the hidden knowledge of the Gnostics. It is Bible knowledge, available to all. All that is needed is a guide. 

Various members of different churches gave some "knowledge" about God and Bible to Russell who then modified it. Russell pass his "knowledge" to Rutherford who also made some modification and pass that "knowledge" to other Presidents of WTJWorg .... various members of GB until today have same modus operandi. 

"Knowledge" is in danger state, because you never know what spirit "guided" this people. "Knowledge" about God and Bible can be revealed only if God revealed true meaning of written words in Bible text to people or individuals, let say this way. Because GB is not "inspired", as they claim, by same spirit who stand behind writing OT and NT scriptures, it is not reasonable to put your full trust to GB in such matter. They have already proven, multiple time, that they are changing interpretations that they previously claimed to be firmly established in the Bible. They denied/rejected decisions brought  previously, also made under HS "guidance". 

Transferring insecure knowledge in such a way has the same effect as when an electrician learns from an older colleague. Because even a senior fellow electrician can be someone who has learned from a poorly trained electrician. Certainly, one learns from mistakes and one can reject the wrong way of working and the wrong conclusions. But the Bible is not an electrical manual that explains the Wire Color Code, etc.

You are actually asking yourself and JW members and those who want to become a JW, to voluntarily accept the current “knowledge” with a predetermined and not doubting certainty by which that “knowledge” will most certainly change into some other “knowledge”.

 

[xero]

Anyone reading the Bible would see that the people whom God led w/an organization tacked this way and that. The leaders bore the brunt of censure should they have tacked wrongly. Nonetheless people would observe and decide that they felt that "irregardless" of the tacking, that they were confident that the group was heading in the right direction. I don't see that there ever has been universal agreement among members of the groups of God's people. Not in Bible times and not today either. This lack of Swiss thought engineering isn't an issue for me now, nor has it ever been.

[TrueTomHarley]

50 minutes ago, xero said:

Anyone reading the Bible would see that the people whom God led w/an organization tacked this way and that. …I don't see that there ever has been universal agreement among members of the groups of God's people. Not in Bible times and not today either.

Of course. “You can’t always get what you want,” as someone recently drummed to. Nobody gets everything his way. There are things about the earthly organization that are not as I would prefer. 

But the choice is not now, nor has ever been, between the people who are tacking this way and that and the people who are sailing straight and true without deviation. The choice is between the people who are tacking this way and that and the people who have sailed off the edge of the earth. The key tenets: no immortal soul, no trinity, use God’s name, kingdom a real government, everlasting life on earth, why God permits evil, exactly how the ransom works, what happens to the dead, preserved nowhere except in the realm where the GB presides—that has to make an impression with anyone in whom love of truth resides. 

I’m struck with how when people leave Jehovah’s organized worship, they never ever mention these tenets again. The very factors that drew them into the faith are now dismissed as though of no importance. It certainly is true of detractors here who would draw people away. The blemishes of humans taking the lead are drawn out, exaggerated, or even make up, as though they did not all have their counterparts among the first century apostles and presbyrs. Press the detractors for where they would have you go instead and they clam up. They have nothing to offer.

In the case of those who still believe in God, it is back to the land of churches, where in time, the bland junk food will reassert itself: All roads lead to heaven, God works in mysterious ;ways, Death of a child is because God needs another flower in heaven. How is that not like the dog returning to his own vomit?

in the case of those who have gone the atheist route, it is like a market crash where millions are transformed into hundreds. “Ah, well, they were only paper gains anyway,” says the spiritual dullard giving up on everlasting life to go celebrate the hundreds he still has left. 

It is no good harping on the blemishes of others, real, imagined, or enhanced. The enemy in the West wants exactly what the enemy in the East wants—to separate Witnesses from their organization, with the confidence that they can be more easily assimilated that way. The only difference between them is the difference between the good cop who would coo at you and the bad cop who would beat you. They want the same. Should you acknowledge the blemishes of fellow believers  it nonetheless does not change the overall picture. It fits right in with how things were in the first century, where they also had blemishes. It’s how imperfect people are.

Pray to God that he fix your personal woes and beefs and he will respond that he has underlings who can handle the job. It is enough that he will listen to you and provide nourishment night and day. Complain to him that the underlings are imperfect and he will observe that you are no great shakes yourself—you will just have to learn to make do.