Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by J.F. Rutherford ??????????? A few questions.

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

took until 1943 to get rid of the idea that

That is proof that different generations make up one generation. Some people were still stuck in the old ideas while the younger ones quickly adopt the new thoughts.

[Pudgy]

Your example, Ariana, may prove something …. But it does not prove different generations make up one generation, any more than cutting a fishing worm into three parts proves the Trinity.

The fact remains that NOWHERE did Jesus teach overlapping generations. 

The whole concept is a desperate fantasy to try and recover from being 100% wrong, 100% of the time, to desperate people who lubricate the “Chariot’s” wheels with a never ending waterfall of money, desperately wanting to believe it is true.

…. and emotionally comforted because with this fantasy explanation, their faith is now justified, and all is well.

[Dmitar]

5 hours ago, BroRando said:

It's possible that the restitution began in 1919 with the spiritual paradise.  Enjoy your reading of the following explaination.

It was not lost in Brother Rutherford. In his book that you are debating, there are many instances on the restoration also. 

Millions now living will never die! Page 100

RESURRECTION
Not only will those living on the earth when restoration begins have the opportunity of life, but all the dead shall be awakened and brought back in their regular order and likewise be given an opportunity for life. It was the great Master
who declared: 'Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth". (John 5 : 28,29)

Clearly, the blessing here intended is life, liberty and happiness-a restoration to the very things Adam had forfeited by
reason of his disobedience. All the prophets who thereafter wrote foretold the coming of such times of restoration and blessing. P-72

However, he hit that home with his 1927 book Restoration. He gave a full account and explanation on the subject. Since we are dealing with understanding Brother Rutherford works, it is good to expand on the why. Should that stop us from understanding the bible any differently when the source is the same? 

His works of course are misconstrued by many unmentioned characters. This by no means shouldn't be a reason to fully appreciate the effort he contributed as a student of the bible. The Living, the dead, Restitution, Restoration, Heaven, Hades, Hell, Sheol etc. Intense subject matters that have the same meaning in scripture if understood correctly. 

[BroRando]

2 hours ago, NoisySrecko said:

It was not lost in Brother Rutherford. In his book that you are debating, there are many instances on the restoration also. 

Millions now living will never die! Page 100

RESURRECTION
Not only will those living on the earth when restoration begins have the opportunity of life, but all the dead shall be awakened and brought back in their regular order and likewise be given an opportunity for life. It was the great Master
who declared: 'Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth". (John 5 : 28,29)

Clearly, the blessing here intended is life, liberty and happiness-a restoration to the very things Adam had forfeited by
reason of his disobedience. All the prophets who thereafter wrote foretold the coming of such times of restoration and blessing. P-72

However, he hit that home with his 1927 book Restoration. He gave a full account and explanation on the subject. Since we are dealing with understanding Brother Rutherford works, it is good to expand on the why. Should that stop us from understanding the bible any differently when the source is the same? 

His works of course are misconstrued by many unmentioned characters. This by no means shouldn't be a reason to fully appreciate the effort he contributed as a student of the bible. The Living, the dead, Restitution, Restoration, Heaven, Hades, Hell, Sheol etc. Intense subject matters that have the same meaning in scripture if understood correctly. 

It's possible that the restitution began in 1919 with the spiritual paradise.  Enjoy your reading of the following explaination.  If one takes the time limit found at (Genesis 6:3) the anointed may all be Heavenly by 2039.  

It would make sense some of the overlapping generation (remnant) would witness the End of the Last Days before being SUMMONED to heaven by the glorified Jesus Christ. 

Therefore, the restitution that began in 1919 with the spiritual paradise of the anointed would also be extended to those of the earthly hope to enjoy such spiritual benefits of joy and bliss. It does point out that the Restituton would begin in a Spiritual Manifestation in 1919 but then enter into a Physical Manifestation after 2039. 

Ops!  Hope I did not give too much information away here... 😁

 

[JW Insider]

6 hours ago, Anna said:

Where can I find this?

*** ka chap. 11 pp. 209-210 par. 55 “Here Is the Bridegroom!” ***
In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book “The Truth Shall Make You Free.” In its chapter 11, entitled “The Count of Time,” it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.

 

[Arauna]

On 10/12/2021 at 9:28 AM, Pudgy said:

That is not the question you should be asking.

Says who? Because you just do not agree and it does not fit your own ideas?  So explain to me how it is possible that we are living in 2021 and we have x-generation, millennials, and baby boomers (overlapping generations) living together!

 

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

So explain to me how it is possible that we are living in 2021 and we have x-generation, millennials, and baby boomers (overlapping generations) living together!

Isn't that exactly the problem with the current explanation? We currently have overlapping generations living together, but are we therefore contemporaries with the (US) Civil War generation who finally all died out around 1960? (I was born in 1957 and actually met one of them while out in service in 1964.) Are we currently living together with the generation of new babies who will be born after we die?

If I made a speech today in front of all the contemporary generations alive today, and I said that THIS generation is going to see people living on Mars, but it doesn't happen until 121 years from now . . . then could anyone read my speech in the year 2142 and claim that I was right?

It's difficult to imagine that someone could have great-great-great-grandchildren in 2142 and that those children would be saying to one another that their own great-great-great-grandmother actually knew someone named JWI who correctly predicted that we, in this very generation in 2142, would see it come true. That JWI was brilliantly correct! 

[Arauna]

42 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Are we currently living together with the generation of new babies who will be born after we die?

Exactly!

[JW Insider]

2 minutes ago, Arauna said:

45 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Are we currently living together with the generation of new babies who will be born after we die?

Exactly!

I don't understand how we could be living together with people we aren't living together with.

If we are dead, and they haven't even been born, how are we "living together?"

[Arauna]

7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

9 minutes ago, Arauna said:

 

I don't understand how we could be living together with

You are right... I read too fast! But say, I die and my grandchild is 10 years old.... there is enough time to have an influence in the life of that child - to teach them about jehovah.... so there is yourself, your son and his son..... three overlapping  generations on earth together... and when people have children young,  it can become 4 generations if the first lives long enough. And the great grandfather can have an influence on all four generations! Just as the bible says!

[Srecko Sostar]

26 minutes ago, Arauna said:

But say, I die and my grandchild is 10 years old.... there is enough time to have an influence in the life of that child - to teach them about jehovah....

But if your grand child is going to watch ex-JW material it is easily possible that your influence (regarding the WTJWorg doctrine) will not be of any use.  On the other hand, every effort you would make to make a child an honest and responsible person is commendable.

[Dmitar]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't understand how we could be living together with people we aren't living together with.

If we are dead, and they haven't even been born, how are we "living together?"

 

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

You are right... I read too fast! But say, I die and my grandchild is 10 years old.... there is enough time to have an influence in the life of that child

Perhaps your argument could be made clearer if you explain the "hope of eternal life" each generation exposes to the other. Therefore, linking that hope to everlasting life. You can use John 3:16, 1 John 2:25, Titus 1:1-2, Romans, 12:12, 1 Peter 1:3 etc. as an aid to the afflicted.

It would also be helpful with how Brother Russell felt Christ invisible presence in 1874 by understanding how someone might feel Christ presence in their lives. To Brother Russell, it was the harvest work that he actually saw as positive and expanding. Does that indicate "Christ invisible Presence" was only felt in 1874? No! Throughout recorded history, people have felt Christ presence in their lives, even today. John Calvin spoke of Christ invisible presence in his 1762 The_Institution_of_the_Christian_Religion page 670. Does that make a renown person a Student of the Bible, or Bible Student? How about people who believe in the holy sacrament. The "Eucharist" right of ritual. Some believe, within this sacrament, they feel Christ invisible presence. Does that make them part of the Bible Student Association? It's been going on for centuries. 1871-The_True_Doctrine_of_the_Eucharist page 215 

2014-The Second Vatican Council Message and Meaning (page 96) 

"Even pre–Vatican II ecumenical councils recognized by Catholic Christianity had not totally ignored the doctrines, ways of life, and sacred rituals of “the others.” Citing a classic passage from the prophet Malachi, the Council of Trent acknowledged “the clean oblation offered in all places” to the name of the Lord, and understood the sacrifice of the Mass to be “prefigured by various types of sacrifices” not only in the Old Testament but also “under the
regime of nature.” The eucharistic sacrifice “includes all the good that was signified by those former sacrifices; it is their fulfilment and perfection” (DzH 1742; ND 1547). This teaching from Trent (that belonged to a defense of the sacrificial character of the Mass) allowed for much which was deemed good in the sacrificial rituals of other religions and which was fulfilled and perfected by Christ’s sacrifice. Sadly, this teaching was normally ignored by Catholics who in later centuries wrote about the world’s religions.."

Does that mean Brother Russell was a Calvinist because he felt Christ invisible presence in 1874?