Governing body will sue anyone?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

23 hours ago, Pudgy said:

But because the Ark of Jehovah’s Witnesses is riddled with holes does not mean it’s better outside where the sharks swim.

It does provide some protection that you cannot get elsewhere, all things considered.

Tell that to the CSA victims and those d/fed just because the Elders didn't like them. 

But then you think that war is ok in God's eyes, and that boasting about having a houseful of guns is good. Remember James, we know who you are and your past remarks. 

23 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I see the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society as God’s people, in spite of themselves.

So, you serve this idol and it's 8 Leaders. And you believe that God and Christ approve of them telling lies and treading on the True Anointed ones.  You believe that God and Christ approve of false teachings do you ? 

So tell me, why would God and Christ want people to be stumbled by these wicked men ? 

Why, in these last days, when faith is so important, would God and Christ want the truth deliberately hidden ?

You seem to believe that GB when they call themselves the Faithful and Discreet slave. Well you must believe them if you write that the W/t are 'God's people'. 

But then you also love guns and you believe that war is ok with God. I don't think I will rely on your judgement any time soon. 

Remember James, those sharks you mention, there are just as many of them inside that fake Ark as there are outside. 

[Dmitar]

I wonder if @Pudgy would submit the very first article from Pastor Russell that indicates if Satan tells the truth, it's still the truth.

It seems Pastor Russell's take of Satan is of conning and a liar, which most of the Bible Students publications indicate. Therefore, Satan manipulation of a weak mind can be successful by pretending to speak truth for the wrong reason.

That in itself can be found here.

A147] [Plain]

Among the greatest of the blinding influences which Satan has devised to keep men in ignorance of the truth regarding the judgment day have been the errors which have crept into the creeds and hymn books of the various religious sects....

A250] [Plain]

Satan has continually taken advantage of man's weaknesses, made good to appear evil, and evil to appear good; and he has misrepresented God's character and plans and blinded men to the truth. …

[R1410:page180]  [Plain]

Satan achieves no greater triumph than when he seduces a soul which was once enlightened and sanctified by the truth; and the influence of such a one for evil is more than doubled...

I don't see any positive attributes to Pastor Russell's words in favor of Satan. Funny how @JW Insider doesn't quickly "demand" a clarification on this matter like he does with me. But then again, I'm not part of the Jehovah's Witnesses and former Jehovah's Witnesses, the in crowd here.

[Pudgy]

As usual, Dimitar, your understanding is agenda driven, and demonstratively faulty.

Charles Taze Russel was not speaking favorably about Satan …. He was speaking favorably about TRUTH.

Scanned copies of the first issue of the Watchtower are almost instantly available on the Internet. If memory serves, the article title is “What Is Truth?”.

As usual, you gave your disassociative diatribe BEFORE you read the article, and as usual were wrong and blusterous.

You could at least TRY to be funny. Occasionally that in itself is  inadvertently funny.

If sad and pathetic is what you were looking for ….. you NAILED it!

 

[Srecko Sostar]

6 hours ago, Dmitar said:

I wonder if @Pudgy would submit the very first article from Pastor Russell that indicates if Satan tells the truth, it's still the truth.

It seems Pastor Russell's take of Satan is of conning and a liar, which most of the Bible Students publications indicate. Therefore, Satan manipulation of a weak mind can be successful by pretending to speak truth for the wrong reason.

I am of the opinion that "truth" is discernible through several (and more) possibilities; Through believing in the one who speaks to us. Through the meaning and logic of what was said. Through determining the credibility of what was said. Through factual examination. By assuming that something is possible for which accuracy or inaccuracy cannot be established. Or all this and something else about proving, is left to others to decide for us, so we accept without much need to be suspicious.

Genesis chapter 3:

 

² The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, ³ but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

⁴ “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. ⁵ “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

What is a lie here?

Do we know anything about the possible fact that YHVH may have told the angels that they (angels) would die if they disobeyed him, God? Was there a "Tree" for angels in the heaven?

If we assume something like this, because angels are only slightly "bigger (higher)" than humans, so the "free will" test could be valid for them as well. If the devil "ate the fruit of the tree in the heavenly paradise" and did not die because of it, then his claim to Eve that neither she nor Adam would die was merely an experiential claim based on the current situation or current state of the rebellious angel. 

Then his claim was not a lie, but only a product of his experience, and that is, that he as a rebel was not punished by death, so he "assumed" that neither Adam and Eve would die violating the same kind of prohibition.
Moreover, the second part of his (devil) statement that Adam and Eve would become gods and know what good and evil are proved to be completely true, because YHVH himself said exactly the same thing when he said:

²² And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 

Pilate's question; “What is true (truth)”, was a good question.

 

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am of the opinion that "truth" is discernible through several (and more) possibilities; Through believing in the one who speaks to us. Through the meaning and logic of what was said. Through determining the credibility of what was said. Through factual examination. By assuming that something is possible for which accuracy or inaccuracy cannot be established. Or all this and something else about proving, is left to others to decide for us, so we accept without much need to be suspicious.

Since I'm speaking about Satan, then yes, anything is possible. Satan pretended to be an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:14. This is why the admonition of Galatians 1:8 was given. Keep an eye on those that willfully teach a gospel contrary to that of Christ. 

However, in your view, that would fit everyone, including God and Christ.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do we know anything about the possible fact that YHVH may have told the angels that they (angels) would die if they disobeyed him, God? Was there a "Tree" for angels in the heaven?

What point of reference are you referring to? After Christ was created, the angels came second. When they were created, they had the ability to know from good and evil. That's the indicator in Genesis 3:22. They also knew, their life cycle was everlasting, not immortal as Jesus became to be.

Here human nature doesn't distinguish between the two, since by definition, it can mean the same thing. However, God and now Christ do.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If we assume something like this, because angels are only slightly "bigger (higher)" than humans, so the "free will" test could be valid for them as well. If the devil "ate the fruit of the tree in the heavenly paradise" and did not die because of it, then his claim to Eve that neither she nor Adam would die was merely an experiential claim based on the current situation or current state of the rebellious angel. 

The angels understood, back then, they also had a choice. Satan chose to be an angel of darkness, and other angels followed. Satan wanted exclusive devotion from God's creation. A "right" only God has. Now people might think, well, God destroyed angels in the flood. No he didn't. He destroyed a product of the angel's lust for creation. The nephilim. Judgment upon the angelic realm will come next. 

Just like the evil pre-flood, Satan understands his fate. The thing to understand is simple. Perfection is a blameless state. That's what made Jesus sinless. He maintained a sinless state by being blameless by his loyalty to God. He refused the temptation of what was evil. We as imperfect beings don't have that luxury of perfection. However, we all can remain blameless by also following in the footsteps of Christ. That's what made him a perfect example.

Now, you can argue, then we should be sinless also. No!, that condition was not exempt by Christ sacrifice. We are still under that conviction. Jesus sacrifice was to establish that means for humanity as a reward for their loyal service to God. Just like Noah in the pre-flood era. God made Noah the reward for humanities existence to continue.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Then his claim was not a lie, but only a product of his experience, and that is, that he as a rebel was not punished by death, so he "assumed" that neither Adam and Eve would die violating the same kind of prohibition.

Actually, that assumption was already in place. Now you can argue, was Satan jealous of Christ for being God's firstborn? The way he handled God's creation of man, I believe he was. The process of humanity is not just to answer why God deserves exclusive devotion from his creation, but to also answer the need for the angelic realm to understand, why Satan a creation of God decided to turn away from his creator for his own interest. That question has yet to be answered, and little by little it is by humanities actions. 

That's why the only Kingdom that can govern man properly is the kingdom of heaven. After all this time, God still believes in righteousness, and is looking forward to many survivors. He'd rather see almost 9 billion people, but we all have a choice to make.

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Pilate's question; “What is true (truth)”, was a good question.

While Pilate might have asked a good question, the answer is in the heart. We just need to look deep into our inner self.

Yes, I do accept Christ truth, and as my lord and savior, I acknowledge my creator and love him for being my one and only true God.

Enjoy your day @Srecko Sostar!

[xero]

11 hours ago, Pudgy said:

As usual, Dimitar, your understanding is agenda driven, and demonstratively faulty.

Charles Taze Russel was not speaking favorably about Satan …. He was speaking favorably about TRUTH.

Scanned copies of the first issue of the Watchtower are almost instantly available on the Internet. If memory serves, the article title is “What Is Truth?”.

As usual, you gave your disassociative diatribe BEFORE you read the article, and as usual were wrong and blusterous.

You could at least TRY to be funny. Occasionally that in itself is  inadvertently funny.

If sad and pathetic is what you were looking for ….. you NAILED it!

 

I wonder...if I unmask the comments from people I've reasonably blocked and look. Will I turn into a pillar of salt?

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, xero said:

I wonder...if I unmask the comments from people I've reasonably blocked and look. Will I turn into a pillar of salt?

You probably won’t turn into a pillar of salt, just as you won’t die in Armageddon if you disobey GB. 

[Srecko Sostar]

9 hours ago, Dmitar said:

What point of reference are you referring to?

Is the Bible a book with a linear text or a non-linear one?
People who, after many centuries, and after various written Old and New Testament texts, came up with the idea to collect writings and try to arrange them in chronological order left us a book as we know it today.
Various Bible scholars, as well as other ordinary people, have sought to find the hidden meanings of literal or prophetic or symbolic words. That would mean trying to understand the Bible in a non-linear way. That is why there are various footnotes, links and other non-biblical and secular texts that interpret Biblical texts and enable the reader to "explore".

Because the Bible does not contain information or clues as to what was before Adam and Eve in heaven and whether angels were also subjected to a test of faithfulness like the people of Eden, we can only assume.

Eternity and immortality, are there any differences? Maybe only linguistically (semantic), because these values do not exist experientially in people's lives, and are therefore in some way meaningless to discuss. Except in a philosophical sense. What part of religious belief (doctrine) is the philosophical part in the lives of JW believers? It is similar with the use of the terms perfect, imperfect, sinful and sinless.

9 hours ago, Dmitar said:

We as imperfect beings don't have that luxury of perfection. However, we all can remain blameless by also following in the footsteps of Christ.

And so. It is now clearer why GB thinks they are acting flawlessly (blamelessly) in various actions.

They can err but such errors are not for reproach. 

 

[Dmitar]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Is the Bible a book with a linear text or a non-linear one?
People who, after many centuries, and after various written Old and New Testament texts, came up with the idea to collect writings and try to arrange them in chronological order left us a book as we know it today.

The bible is a book of faith. Either you believe it's the inspired word of God or you don't. It has nothing to do with any institution or it's members. The caution Jesus and the apostles made was, to unit in the same faith. Meaning, sticking with those that had the same faith in God and Jesus in order to understand that written word.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Various Bible scholars, as well as other ordinary people, have sought to find the hidden meanings of literal or prophetic or symbolic words. That would mean trying to understand the Bible in a non-linear way. That is why there are various footnotes, links and other non-biblical and secular texts that interpret Biblical texts and enable the reader to "explore".

There are secular scholars that want to determine a hidden path to increase their prestige. There are Bible scholars that seek their own power, like the pharisees. The Vatican "Holy See" (Governing Body) has both. Then you have normal people that wish to understand what Jesus was conveying and have faith, God gives them that insight and wisdom. These are the people led by God's Holy Spirit. That's one reason the ancient prophets were hated. People weren't willing to listen to the truth. It's no different today.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because the Bible does not contain information or clues as to what was before Adam and Eve in heaven and whether angels were also subjected to a test of faithfulness like the people of Eden, we can only assume.

Then you haven't examined the bible correctly, and you have no faith in God that his earthly representatives are actively teaching his words and Jesus gospel. Here, you are testing God. Reference Luke 4:12

Yet, scripture states, before Adam and Eve, God was busy creating heaven and earth.

The Beginning

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Before that, God created his firstborn and the angelic realm.

Colossians 1:15

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

People that agree with this kind of assumption are not helping your cause. They are actively keeping you blind from the truth. Reference Matthew 18:6

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Eternity and immortality, are there any differences? Maybe only linguistically (semantic), because these values do not exist experientially in people's lives, and are therefore in some way meaningless to discuss. Except in a philosophical sense. What part of religious belief (doctrine) is the philosophical part in the lives of JW believers? It is similar with the use of the terms perfect, imperfect, sinful and sinless.

There's no hidden misconception on what everlasting and immortality is. Reference 1 Corinthians 14:33 That confusion is man-made, just with blameless and sinless. Whoever teaches the correct gospel, that's who God supports. Reference 6:6

6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And so. It is now clearer why GB thinks they are acting flawlessly (blamelessly) in various actions.

They can err but such errors are not for reproach.

This determines a person's Christian Faith. It has nothing to do with and institution nor it's leaders. That assumption comes from corrupted minds. It has no viable reasoning behind it.

Now those that receive the responsibility of being a Shepherd, then yes, those leaders have to be above reproach. Reference 1 Timothy 3:1-7, also:

Titus 1:7

For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain,

This is scripture speaking, not man. The word you're looking for here is "willful." In your context, on purpose.

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Dmitar said:

The bible is a book of faith.

I can agree. And you should agree that this is about believing in multiple factors. Faith in those who wrote. Faith in those who made copies. Faith in those who found copies of copies. Faith in those who interpret copies of copies............Faith in a God who allows deception to happen.

 

[Dmitar]

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I can agree. And you should agree that this is about believing in multiple factors. Faith in those who wrote. Faith in those who made copies. Faith in those who found copies of copies. Faith in those who interpret copies of copies............Faith in a God who allows deception to happen.

What you should agree with is, have faith in God that he hasn't allowed man to rewrite scripture to benefit man. That deception is a fabrication and man-made, not Gods. Therefore, the faith lies with the inspired word of God, that God inspired men of will to write.

As for copies, transmission is looked at closely. When something new is found and deemed important enough to recite, then an adjustment is made. That doesn't mean, man is intervening with scripture, but learning the original language that should have been lost centuries ago, but hasn't because God's will for man to learn from scripture is a close a man needs to get without inspired prophets directly from God to give us that personal instruction.

That's the point of having earthly representatives. For God to enlighten them and guide Gods words and understanding of scripture to his will as free minded men. Before, it was the prophets. Sometimes, they didn't know what to say, so they prayed for guidance, and it was given. Other times, those prophets didn't want to speak out of fear, but God counseled them out of that fear. Today, all that has been written as a guide, to understand all that has transpired between humanity and God for our benefit as spiritual mature children. The Jews had their chance, now the gentiles are included.

Once again, you either have faith or you don't. It's that simple.

[Srecko Sostar]

21 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Once again, you either have faith or you don't. It's that simple.

Mankind has had faith all this time. That is why we are now in the era of the Internet and virtual reality, among other things (with faith in God and with faith in people).

Copies of the copies have been found and we have been using them for a long time. What if those saved and found copies are the ones with errors (accidental or intentional) in copying?

If we believe that the writing of the original text was inspired by God, that is one thing.
But no copyist of the first copy until the last copy was inspired to copy. What is not inspired automatically implies the occurrence of an error.