1st Century Christians, Leaders, Apostle Paul Letters to the congregations.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I've just found this and thought it would prove that the GB pretend to be the 'modern' 'Governing Body,  based on a governing body that actually may never have existed in the first century.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/jehovahs-will/jehovahs-witnesses-governing-body/

Quote :-

In the first century, a small group, “the apostles and elders in Jerusalem,” served as a governing body to make important decisions on behalf of the entire anointed Christian congregation. (Acts 15:2) When they made a unanimous decision, it was a result of discussing what the Scriptures say and yielding to the influence of God’s spirit. (Acts 15:25) That pattern is followed today.

It is responsive to the direction of God’s spirit. The Governing Body looks to the Universal Sovereign, Jehovah, and to the Head of the congregation, Jesus, for guidance. (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 5:23) Its members do not regard themselves as the leaders of God’s people. They, along with all anointed Christians, “keep following the Lamb [Jesus] no matter where he goes.” (Revelation 14:4) The Governing Body appreciates our prayers in its behalf.

However the GB now says they are not inspired of 'God's spirit'. 

Um, 'do not regard themselves as leaders' ?  But they do call themselves the Faithful and Discreet Slave.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@JW Insider I do thank you for all your help but I think we have come to a point where we may be of different opinion. 

I like this bit. Quote " But we see Paul continuing to "shepherd" the congregation, as a kind of "long distance" elder. He is to those congregations what the "governing body" seems to be to current Witness congregations."

But Paul was an outsider. He was not one of the Twelve or older men of Jerusalem. And he only lived until 68 CE.

Whereas the GB are basing themselves on the Twelve and older men of Jerusalem. 

Quote " John, in Revelation, writes to congregations with an idea that Jesus handles each congregation directly, and that they have been "on their own" under the direction of Jesus. They have a need to recognize this direct authority of Jesus, as they make decisions locally about who/what to listen to, and who/what to avoid. (Revelation 2&3)."

But the GB is opposed to this idea. The GB say they are the F&DS and are the ones taking the lead. Or more bluntly, giving the orders. 

Didn't Russell originally have the same line of thinking as John here ? Not needing an Organisation and not needing leaders. 

Quote "It seems as though the apostles and older men of the first century did indeed act like a kind of governing body (not just in Jerusalem, but in Antioch, and anywhere that Paul, Titus, Timothy, etc. might have served from). "

I think we have to just agree to differ here. I think you are stretching the use of the term 'governing body'. Paul was guided by holy Spirit in Antioch not guided by a governing body. 

However you then wrote  " But by the time John wrote, it was important to have more reliance on the holy spirit, "

" But you can also see a need for a balanced view since the goal should also continue to be guiding all to rely directly on the words of the Bible already written. "

So where does this leave us now ?

With a GB not inspired of holy Spirit but making the rules, and pretending they have a right to do so by saying there was a 'GB' in the first century. But it is clear to see that Christ was sending God's Holy Spirit to the congregations individually. 

And how can people rely on the Bible when they are being told what to believe by a Governing Body ?

[Kosonen]

On 2/24/2020 at 10:44 PM, 4Jah2me said:

And how can people rely on the Bible when they are being told what to believe by a Governing Body ?

Yes that is a real problem. I don't think that is right that the GB tells to trust them and punishes jws if they tell aloud that they think the GB is wrong in some issues. It is so ridiculous that if you have a doctrinal question to the elders, the only answer the elders will give is what has been written in the litterature and if there is no answer in the litterature to clarify a question, then they say to wait on Jehovah. It is so ridiculous that elders and even circuit overseers will categorically refuse to reason on scriptures that show that a particular current JW doctrine is wrong.

Yes, really christians can survive spiritually without a JW GB. 

And Jesus told parabels about his slaves that got minas, and talents. And in these parabels Jesus sends these slaves directly himself without any middle man, such as GB. And when Jesus returns, then he himself will settle accounts with his slaves. So Jesus' slaves will not have a GB as master when he returns. 

Yes, everything points to the fact that the final years up to Jesus' return there will not exist any GB. 

Instead it looks like a single faithful and discreet slave will get the responibility to feed JWs the final years up to Jesus' return.

In Malachi, there is a prophecy that a modern day Elijah will come before the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah.

 

Malachi 4:5  “Look! I am sending to you E·liʹjah the prophet+ before the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah.+ 6  And he will turn the hearts of fathers back toward sons,+ and the hearts of sons back toward fathers, so that I may not come and strike the earth, devoting it to destruction.”

Yes, really as you have realized, there was no such Governing Body in the first century as the GB of JWs. The GB of JWs is more like the Jewish Sanhedrin that was in religious charge until Jesus came. 

In the Christian Greek scriptures I have only found once that a doctrinal matter was resolved by a group of apostles and elders of Jerusalem. 

The rest was already established by Jesus, while he was on earth and by individual letters from apostels and other writers of the Christian Greek scriptures.

[John Houston]

How would the 12 run things today, this global range of worshippers of Jehovah? Would they write letters still, go by ship, and walk? Could they travel freely from country to country with all the border laws that are in place now? What about the laws to own property and even assemble? Could they function as they did then, now? They would need one central location, just as they took care of the problem with the widows and delegated it out to spiritually qualified persons, because they could not personally tamp out each fire. If Moses was suggested to gather around him ones would could be given such responsibilities, that would hold true today with such world wide reach. The daily business grind itself, is more than the apostles could ever fathom having to deal with when Jesus told them to take this to the most distant part of the earth. Like Koran who had some rumbling about how Moses was doing his job, we should not have such rumblings. If what they are doing is not in line with Jehovah's purposes, don't you think he will correct it? Hasn't he as we have learned over and over again? Why now in the modern time should Jehovah be weak or slow? Why now should he need our help? Have we gotten more enlightened since the days of Moses, since Pentecost 33? If Jehovah has not changed, then he will still take care of HIS ORGANIZATION, not one to be mutinied by restless imperfect humans. While Eli's sons seemed to be getting away with bloody murder, Jehovah in the end took care and cleaned out the filth, correct? He can't now? We know more than Jehovah in these last days, really?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Mr Houston, you seem to be putting your faith in the GB and an Organisation, not in God through Christ.

The CCJW seems to be proving 'by their works' that they are not God's organisation, so why would you want to follow them in their wrong course ? 

And as for your question, quote :- " How would the 12 run things today ? "

It appears that the Twelve didn't run things back then. Remember that they didn't live long and that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C E.  It would also seem as if the Apostle Paul did most of the letter writing to the congregations, not the Twelve. So it wasn't a governing body back then, that your GB pretend it was. 

[Witness]

On 2/27/2020 at 11:22 AM, Kosonen said:

n Malachi, there is a prophecy that a modern day Elijah will come before the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah.

 

Malachi 4:5  “Look! I am sending to you E·liʹjah the prophet+ before the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah.+ 6  And he will turn the hearts of fathers back toward sons,+ and the hearts of sons back toward fathers, so that I may not come and strike the earth, devoting it to destruction.”

Yes, it is true.  By reading Malachi 3, we can see that this “Elijah”/messenger stresses the purification from sin as John the Baptist did;  and the reuniting of God’s anointed priests, who are the Body of Christ:

“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.

² But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap. ³ He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. (Rev 3:18) Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, ⁴ and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the Lord, as in days gone by, as in former years."

After the Jews were released from captivity of Babylon, Nehemiah, Ezra, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi and Zerubabbel, all had a part in the restoration of the Temple; which restored pure worship to the people.  The WT use to believe the anointed were an “Elijah class”; and through them, pure worship was restored:

2002/5/1 pg 22
 Malachi’s prophecy showed that this great Elijah work would be done before “the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.” That day concludes with the rapidly approaching war of the great day of God the Almighty, at Armageddon. This means that the end of this wicked system of things and the beginning of the Millennial Reign of God’s heavenly Kingdom under the enthroned Jesus Christ would be preceded by a work corresponding to the activity of Elijah. True to that prophecy, before Jehovah destroys this wicked system, the modern-day Elijah class, supported by millions of fellow Christians with an earthly hope, enthusiastically carry on the work of restoring pure worship, exalting the name of Jehovah, and teaching Bible truths to sheeplike ones.

 

I believe it was in 2015, A mere thirteen years later, the “Elijah class” became defunct. From the book, “Jesus, the Way, the Truth, the Life” pg 145:

Elijah’s appearance in the vision raises a question. “Why,” the apostles ask, “do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” Jesus replies: “Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him.” (Matthew 17:10-12) Jesus is speaking about John the Baptist, who fulfilled a role similar to Elijah’s. Elijah prepared the way for Elisha, and John did so for Christ. 

There is no focus on an “Elijah” in the last days.  Deftly, they have dismissed both Matt 17:11 and Mark 9:12

¹¹ Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things.

Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?”

Obviously, these scriptures were clearly observed in the Wt. for many years, but now, they choose not to recognize them; either from spiritual blindness, or self-preservation and survival of their idol.  I believe it to be both.  

These scriptures have to do with the anointed priests as the living temple.  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6)  “Restoration” of God’s Temple today would require a bonding of the anointed, of which they are told not to do by GB/elders.  It would require their having a voice concerning whether teachings are in harmony with truth; which is impossible when they are not to “challenge” the GB’s decisions.   It would require their position as a priesthood as active, offering to God the “daily sacrifices” that were removed by the “Gentile” elder body that they presently must obey. (Dan 8:11)  Their bonding under one Head, Jesus Christ, would restore “pure worship” to the people.  (Mal 2:7) It would restore Truth in Christ. (John 15:4)

Instead, the temple has been given over to the “Gentile” elder body. (Ezek 44:6-9; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2)

Restoration happens outside of the Wt through those anointed who been “killed” by the Beast/organization  (Rev 13:15; 11:13,7 ) They who join together in truth, are the “remnant” found faithful to Christ; yet, their spiritual "death" proves they are victorious over the "Beast".  (Rev 15:2-4)  

Ironically, the new book, Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored At Last! centers on Ezekiel’s prophesy and how to, “worship Jehovah in the way that he approves, bringing our lives into harmony with his lofty standards.” (from the letter from the GB)

When I think of the sins against victims of pedophiles alone, my stomach churns when reading such arrogance.  But also, have the organization’s leaders brought their lives into harmony with God’s “lofty standards” through Christ concerning God’s Temple?  If they were loyal to Christ and the Father, and not to themselves, they would not “beat their fellow slave” for rejecting their spiritual food – their spiritual ‘commerce’. Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:11,16,17) They would “restore” God’s Temple, instead of trampling it down and causing “truth” to be thrown to the ground. (Dan 8:12)

Instead, the governing leaders promote their growing idol, built on a foundation of lies and 'blaspheming' God's Temple/sanctuary as they do so. (Matt 7:26; Rev 13:1,2,5-8)

Prophets are part of God’s Temple foundation (Eph 2:20-22); the apostles as prophets as well as all the prophets from old.  They spoke God’s truth, which is what the “city of God”, "New Jerusalem" is – a holy "city" of Truth. 

This is what the LORD says: “I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD of Hosts will be called the Holy Mountain.”  Zech 8:3

The “Elijah”/"Moses" Jesus sends in the last days is spoken of in Rev 11:1-3.  The result of that one’s call and all who join this “Elijah”, "measure” the Temple by speaking Christ's truth.  Each member/living stone is “measured” in this way, proving their worth before God.   

They are measured according to God’s standards of Truth, through Jesus Christ, not according to those of men. (Matt 25:1-13)

Dear Kosonen, I hope that you, as a “living stone” of  God’s Temple, (1 Pet 2:5,9) perceive that this restoration is more important than anything occurring within in the world of politics and religion.

 

 

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/two-witnesses-elijah-and-moses.html

 

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

17 hours ago, John Houston said:

Like Koran who had some rumbling about how Moses was doing his job, we should not have such rumblings. If what they are doing is not in line with Jehovah's purposes, don't you think he will correct it?

Korah was in the wrong, not Moses.  When the GB and the organization as a whole, is in the wrong, why would we compare ourselves to Korah?  

Jesus is our example to follow.  He never backed down to the Pharisees' lies. If we say we follow Jesus, we would never back down either. 

 

Thus says the Lord of hosts:

“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.
They make you worthless;
They speak a vision of their own heart,
Not from the mouth of the Lord.
17 They continually say to those who despise Me,
‘The Lord has said, “You shall have peace” ’;
And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say,
‘No evil shall come upon you.’ ”

18 For who has stood in the counsel of the Lord,
And has perceived and heard His word?
Who has marked His word and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord has gone forth in fury

A violent whirlwind!
It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord will not turn back
Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart.
In the latter days you will understand it perfectly.

21 “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran.
I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in My counsel,
And had caused My people to hear My words,
Then they would have turned them from their evil way
And from the evil of their doings.

“Am I a God near at hand,” says the Lord,
“And not a God afar off?
24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places,
So I shall not see him?” says the Lord;
“Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord.

“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ 26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, 27 who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.

28 “The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat?” says the Lord.
29 “Is not My word like a fire?” says the Lord,

“And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

30 “Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who use their tongues and say, ‘He says.’ 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the Lord.  Jer 23:16-32

 

[Kosonen]

13 minutes ago, Witness said:

Dear Kosonen, I hope that you, as a “living stone” of  God’s Temple, (1 Pet 2:5,9) perceive that this restoration is more important than anything occurring within in the world of politics and religion.

Yes, I am eagerly waiting for the final cleansing and whitening period of 3 and half years. And as I have written it should begin after the King of the north "goes back" from Syria. It looks like Turkey unknowingly makes all possible to hinder this scripture to get its fulfillment. But nothing can in the long run stop the fulfillment of scriptures.