JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied
I carefully read Anna's list of JW core beliefs, and responded "Amen", although about some I have been thinking about all the extenuating circumstances that might affect the absoluteness of some of them.
For Example, in U.S. Law there are many things that are felonies, but State Supreme Courts have ruled that although these felonies are lawfully prosecuted, the individual specifics make them AS APPLIED to certain cases make the application of those laws un-Constitutional, either by State, or Federal Constitutions.
In other words, the specific circumstances of the crime determines whether or not those laws can be applied against a specific person, in a specific set of circumstances.
...... Lets suppose a family of five, where all the family members are Jehovah's Witnesses, and the mother has tired of taking care of her three young children, puts them in a car, and deliberately drives that car into a lake, and drowns them.
It's first-degree premeditated murder.
She is convicted in a court of law, and is sentenced to three life sentences with no possibility of parole.
QUESTION # 1 : Is the husband, whose three children were murdered by his wife, expected to live his life alone, and never re-marry?
QUESTION #2: If he does, say after a dozen years, remarry, will he be disfellowshipped?
By Guest Nicole
¡Despertad! 8 de Octubre de 1982.pdf
By James Thomas Rook Jr.
The thought occurred to me that some might be interested in EXPERIMENTING with a new line of Witnessing, not to replace anything that we might be doing now, but to "widen out" to niche' audiences. There is a communications network that exists available to you ... text only, back from the 1990s when the Internet was first formed, and it is still going strong today ,,,, although it is supplanted or even overtaken by the likes of Facebook or Twitter, or whatever else has evolved.
Conversations I have had in 1997 STILL show up on the Internet, and over the years have seen the Truth handled aright change MANY opinions about TRUE Christianity ..... but it requires flexibility, and humor to try and plant some seeds of Truth on the baked hard-scrabble clay that Christendom has cooked up over the centuries .... It's called the "Internet Relay Chat" network, or IRC., and when sick, I could spend 60 to 70 hours a month in HIGHLY EFFECTIVE Witnessing ... everybody is home, audiences of perhaps 50 people at a time, and no wasted time, or even gas money.
Without further adieu, I will post a little sample I did when I had about ten minutes to spare ... if there is any Interest, I will give you more details .....
Please realize there can be six to 20 people "talking" at the same time, so following is an acquired skill ....
My Screen Name is "Greylenseman"
* Now talking in #christiandebate
* Topic is 'Deu31:6 Be strong and of good courage, do not fear or be in dread of them: for it is the LORD your God who goes with you; he will not fail you or forsake you."'
* Set by VirtualPreacherfirstname.lastname@example.org on Thu Feb 02 19:58:51 2017
#christiandebate url is www.acrity.org
* BibleBot sets mode: +v Greylenseman
<+dani_> ello Greylenseman
<+Greylenseman> iya dani
<+Greylenseman> why up so early?
<+mugzZzZz> Heads are rollinghttp://www.cnn.com/2017/02/17/politics/tillerson-state-department-shakeup/ at the State Department - The news sent shock waves through the agency and has left career officials on edge -
* mugzZzZz is now known as mugz
<+mugz> more draining of the swamp
<+mugz> Heads are rolling at the State Department Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
* +mugz sips more coffee
<+Greylenseman> drill baby, drill!
<+mugz> "careful with that ax Eugine"
<+Greylenseman> I have NEVER had a desire to go to Heaven.
<+dani_> do you have a mental connection with God ?
<+dani_> does god read your mind Greylenseman ?
<+dani_> Moshe`, does God read your mind?
<+thehorror> I'd hate to go to heaven and not see my friends and family
<+Greylenseman> I hope so ... but God's ORIGINAL plan was a physical Universe filled with the children of DNA ... that has NOT changed.
<@Ross> those who dont goto heaven dont go by their choice
<@Ross> oroville dam residents havce to evacuate again
<+Greylenseman> thehorror: or meet some reelatives that were miscarriages, and abortions ...
<+Greylenseman> who, IF they grew up, would never meet puppies.
<+Greylenseman> OH YEAH, little white cloud shapes ....
<+Greylenseman> ...like foggy tribbles ...
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<+Greylenseman> nothing like living in an evironment with aborted fetuses that never grow up, playing with foggy tribbles.
<+Greylenseman> ... and then there is the omnipresent HARP music.....
<+Greylenseman> could be worse .... could be accordians!
<+dani_> that's crazy Greylenseman
<+Greylenseman> yeas it IS ... that is the whole point.
<+dani_> but the alternative isnt much less crazy
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<+Greylenseman> there are inly two alternatives..... just plain ordinary death ... whic we all know is the case ...irregardless of our claimed theology, or being SO HOLY that God KNOWS he can give you immortality without ever later having to kill you for treason. Hell is a fantasy designed to separate you from your wallet.
<+Greylenseman> In all human history, Revelation says only 144,000 are invited to live as immortals in Heaven .. men and women fully tested , and rightous beyond MY ability to understand.
<+Greylenseman> I would be looking for "loopholes".
<+Greylenseman> well, gotta go ... gotta get a nap.
I just reviewed the last post, not technically accurate, as I forgot to mention the Paradise Earth as an option, but I did allude to it in the beginning ... I was tired.
It’s 2 minutes long. I suggest listening to it twice. Notice the undertones of ridicule directed against the “auTHORity” of Jesus Christ. See if you detect the exemplified authority of the GB, placed on the same level as God’s word. And how Jesus was aware of his “limitations”, not having authority “to teach others things that originated in his own mind”. But this man? He displays no humble attitude before God’s Son. Even though the GB persists in fabricating deception originating from THEIR minds, you are made aware that they are above and beyond such limitations!
Honestly, JWs. This is a man who told lies about the organization’s problem with child abuse. Now, he is blatantly exalting himself above Christ and his authority. If any of you believe you will receive eternal life by “sticking close” to this false christ/prophet, and not Jesus Christ, I fear for your lives. Will you continue to look the other way and excuse his and all of the GB’s actions, thinking that God will correct them? God looks at us individually and views OUR choice to serve Him and His Son, or to serve men who expect obedience to them. (Joel 3:14)
“Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 47 They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.” Luke 20:46,47
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.” Matt 7:15
“Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.” Col 2:8
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matt 7:21-23
Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds. Jer 14:14
By Patiently waiting for Truth
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. How Is Jesus’ Sacrifice “a Ransom for Many”?
Payment. The Bible says that Christians were “bought with a price.” (
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) That price is the blood of Jesus, with which he “bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Can we please take a look at this little quote from a JW Org page. Link is above for reference.
It looks all good doesn't it ? But is it in fact deceiving ? It's the bit that I've highlighted in RED.
It's a part quote from a scripture, AND, it is where I say that JW Org misuses scripture.
Lets look at the Revelation scripture Ch 5 v 8, 9 BUT also include verse 10.
When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. fell down before the Lamb, and each one had a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense. (The incense means the prayers of the holy ones.)Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdomHello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and priests to our God,Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” In the top sentence ( marked as 1. Payment ) the GB / Writing department of CCJW / Watchtower make it look as if the Revelation scripture referenced is talking about ALL Christians. BUT, if we look at verse 10, we can see that it is talking only about the Anointed. How ? Because it says those ones are to rule as kings over the earth.”
So, Jesus was slaughtered and with his blood he bought Anointed Ones from every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Do people fully understand this ?
These ones eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ. John 6 v 53 - 56.
So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.
When Anointed ones are resurrected to heavenly life they have no further testing, because they have eaten the flesh and drank the blood of Christ and they are in union with Him.
Whereas, the Earthly class do not eat and drink those things, so the ransom has not yet paid the price for them. Therefore the Earthly Class will get a testing at the end of the Thousand Years. Only on passing that test will the ransom of Christ pay the price for them and then they will 'come to life'.
I feel these are not my words, but God's. I have never thought of myself as inspired but if i can be of use to God through Christ, then may that take place according to God's will.
If the CCJW is to be God's / Christ's 'chosen organisation' what serious changes need to take pace within it.By Patiently waiting for Truth
If the CCJW is going to be God's / Christ's chosen Organisation to bring humans through
Armageddon / Judgement Day
What serious changes need to take place in it first ?
As you know my feelings are that neither God nor Christ can use the CCJW as it is. But I am seriously trying to think on a more spiritual level so I'm trying not to be biased. By reading many comments on this forum I've noticed that even those JWs that resolve to stay firmly in the 'Org', still have some feelings of discontent.
So the question I'm asking is more to those JWs who are remaining 'faithful' to the CCJW and it's GB.
Do you see the need for big changes in the way the CCJW is run ?
Do you really believe that God & Christ are happy with the CCJW as it is ?
I am not deviating from my belief of a 'true Anointed' being 'raised up' in these 'last day', but as I've said before that 'true anointed' could well be within the CCJW.
I'm keeping my mind 'open' to all manner of thoughts, whilst trying to, hopefully with God's guidance, find truth.
However, I am of the opinion that 'new light' via the GB, will not provide the answers or right direction that is needed. But that is just my personal opinion, and I may be proven wrong................
By Patiently waiting for Truth
A topic, or more of a number of questions ?
I've been pondering and trying to research a few things. But the problem I've found in trying to research is that people have their own agenda and will write according to it. They have their own predetermined answer and will therefore write accordingly. I am therefore not starting with a predetermined set of answers, but am asking questions, as many of you have great experience and knowledge.
I'm looking at the 1st Century Christian 'organisation', at the 12, at the Apostle Paul, and at the warning and destruction of Jerusalem which I think happened in 70 C. E.
One point I was looking to discover was, when did the 1st Century Christians leave Jerusalem, based on the warning from Jesus.
About thirty-seven years before the destruction, Jesus had foretold the terrible events that would follow his death. He warned his followers to immediately flee Jerusalem when the signs he predicted occurred. The Christian community carefully watched for the signs and followed the Savior’s warning.
Epiphanes also attested to the Christian escape, according to Bible scholar Adam Clarke. The latter wrote: “It is very remarkable that not a single Christian perished in the destruction of Jerusalem,......"
Vespasian was approaching with his army, all who believed in Christ left Jerusalem and fled to Pella, and other places beyond the river Jordan; and so they all marvellously escaped
Pella must not have been the only destination of fleeing Christians, but it was the most prominent at the time. The flight to Pella took place in A.D. 66 during the attack by Gallus.
So I'm now looking to find out where the 12 Apostles went and exactly when they left Jerusalem ?
AND, importantly, Did they stay together as a 'body' or did they go separate ways ?
As a side note here I find that the NWT has it that the book of Acts was written in 61, whereas others believe it to be written in 66.
The Governing Body of CCJW give the impression that they are following on from the 1st Century Apostles and Older Men.
However, here we must look at a few points.
The Apostle Paul, who was NOT one of the 12, was the one chosen, it seems, to write Letters to the congregations.
If the 12 Apostles (11 original + 1 chosen by men) were the original 'governing body', then why are the Letters to the Congregations NOT written by the 12 ? Why was Paul chosen to write those letters ?
Or, just as important, Why are there no letters to the Congregations written by a 'body of Apostles / Older Men' recorded in the Bible ?
Paul was basically an outsider. Why are his writings more prominent in the Greek Scriptures ?
One other thing I noticed was that all of Paul's letters are pre 70 C. E. which is before the destruction of Jerusalem.
It seems, (although research seems to differ) that Paul was murdered by the Romans / Nero, in 68 C. E.
The only Bible writings after 70 C. E. were written by the Apostle John. Revelation in 96 and John's other writings in 98.
Was he the only one of the original 12 alive after 70 C. E. ?
So what proof do we have of a 'governing body' 'group of Apostles /Older men' from the time that the 12 left Jerusalem in around 66 C. E. ?
And why were they not used to write letters to the Congregations ? Did they stay together as a 'body' or did they separate ?
@JW Insider @TrueTomHarley @Arauna @Anna As JWs that think your Org has truth, maybe you can answer my questions.
Ge 9:20-22, 24, 25—Why might Noah have cursed Canaan instead of Ham? (it-1 1023 ¶4)
Ge 10:9, 10—How was Nimrod “a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah”? (it-2 503)
What spiritual gems from this week’s Bible reading would you like to share regarding Jehovah God, the field ministry, or something else?
Jesus recognized the value of preaching with a companion. So when he dispatched 70 of his disciples to go ahead of him and preach, he sent them out in pairs. (Luke 10:1) A companion can provide needed support if his fellow publisher encounters a difficult situation or is unsure of how to answer a householder. (Eccl. 4:9, 10)
By The Librarian
The Holy Bible > List of Biblical Persons > Jesus Christ
Jesus (/ˈdʒiːzəs/; Greek: Ἰησοῦς Iesous;
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) to 33 C.E.), also referred to as Jesus of Nazareth, is the Son of Jehovah God and the awaited Messiah of the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .The name Jesus (Gr., I·e·sous′) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.” The name itself was not unusual, many men being so named in that period. He is also referred to as Jesus Christ, from the Greek Khri·stos′, the equivalent of the Hebrew Ma·shi′ach(Messiah), and means “Anointed One.” Our Modern day, most widely used Gregorian calendar uses the terms B.C. (Before Christ) and A.D. (Anno Domini = Year of our Lord in Latin) basing our current year of 2014 as the year since his supposed birth according to a medieval estimate.
The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. In heaven he was known as Michael the Archangel. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo′gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god [“was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,”Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, His firstborn Son. This is direct opposition to the popular and later teaching of the Trinity by the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
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That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.
Logically, it was to this firstborn Son that Jehovah said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) All these other created things were not only created “through him” but also “for him,” as God’s Firstborn and the “heir of all things.”—Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Heb 1:2.
Jesus began his life billions of years before the first human ever existed (Compare Mic 5:2.) and was used by his father in the creation of all of the universe (Joh 1:3; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) and the other angels and spirit creatures in heaven (Da 7:9, 10; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ),
Jesus was conceived by Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. being transferred from his heavenly life as Michael the Archangel into the womb of a virgin named Mary who was engaged to Joseph. He was born in Bethlehem as a human baby Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . A Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. guiding astrologers to pay tribute to him.
He was later raised in Nazareth where Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .
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The Memorial of the Death of Jesus Christ
I found this on another forum. It is a photo from the jw org online glossary. Does any JW have an opinion as to why "Jesus" is left out of the glossary? "Christ", as well as "Messiah" are both noted. (Matt 24:24; Mark 13:22 NKJV) (Matt 24:24; Mark 13:22 NIV) Yet, "Jesus", whose name means "YHVH is salvation", or, "Yah will save", isn't listed. Also, both "Emmanuel"/"Immanuel", which means "God is with us" are not listed. (Matt 1:23)
Here is the link:
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By Guest Kurt
Was Jesus Crucified on a Cross NO..mp4
Did Jesus really say He was God?
That’s exactly how Jesus’ original audience seemed to take it when He said, “I and the Father are one.” In fact, the Jews were ready to kill Him right there! Why? “Because you,” they said, “a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).
On another occasion, He used the personal name of Israel’s God–the name revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14)–to refer to Himself. And He even used the Torah for context, so no one would misunderstand Him: “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). This would be about wild as telling a Muslim, “I am your God, Allah.” Don’t try that in Saudi Arabia! It’s no wonder the Jews tried to stone Him to death. That was the exact penalty for blasphemy under the Jewish legal system. It was pretty clear to everyone there that He was saying, “I am Israel’s God.”
Why Jesus is God? The Apostle Thomas called Jesus God.John 20:27-29: 2. The Apostle Peter called Jesus God.2 Peter 1:1: 3.The Apostle John called Jesus God.John 1:1-3, 4.God the Father called Jesus God.Hebrews 1:8: 5. God the Father called Jesus God. 6.Isaiah the Prophet said the Messiah would be God.Isaiah 9:67. The Jews who crucified Jesus understood Him to be saying that He was equal with God.John 5:18: 8.Jesus called Himself "I AM", the Old Testament name for God (Exodus 3:14).John 8:58-59. 9.Jesus calls Himself "the Alpha and Omega," the title of Almighty God.Revelation 22:12-13. 10. Like God (Gen. 1:1) Jesus created.Colossians 1:16-1711. Like God, Jesus forgives sin.Mark 2:5-7, 10-11:12. Like God, Jesus gives eternal life.John 10:27-28: 13. Like God, Jesus received, receives and will receive worship.Matthew 14:32-33. 14. Jesus said that only God was good; and Jesus was good. John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."Jesus was as good as they come. He was "sinless," "holy," "righteous," "innocent," "undefiled," and "separate from sinners." (Hebrews 7:26) That's pretty good! 15. Like God, Jesus can be present in more than one place at the same time.Matthew 18:20: 16. One of Jesus' titles is "God with us."Matthew 1:23. 17. Jesus' blood is called God's blood.Acts 20:28: 18. Jesus has the same nature as God.Hebrews 1:3a: 19. Jesus spoke as God.Jesus did not speak as one of God's prophets: "thus says the Lord," but as God: "I say to you."Matthew 5:27-29. 20. Like God (Psalm 136:3), Jesus is called the Lord of Lords and King of kings.Revelation 17:14. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ( WHEN WAS GOD PIERCED? ). And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel (means God Among Us).
John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Crossreference with Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
John 10:33 "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
Collossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "
Matthew 4:10 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Crossreference with Matthew 2:2, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 28:9.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Crossreference with Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he." and Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
2Peter. Jehovah The Father appears.
John 1. Jehovah the son.
John 8:58 Jesus identifies Himself as Jehovah "I Am"
Acts 5. Jehovah the Holy Spirit identified.
Biblical Jesus Vs. Mormon Jesus.
Simply believing in someone named Jesus means NOTHING unless we are talking about the historic, Biblical Jesus.
The apostle Paul warns us in 2 Corinthians 11:4 — there are some who preach a different Jesus.
- The Bible teaches that Jesus has always existed as God (John 1:1). Mormons see Jesus as someone who worked His way up to godhood. In fact, to Mormons, Jesus is merely one in purpose with God the Father; whereas the Bible declares that the Father and the Son are also one in essence (cf. Phil. 2:6) — that they are both equally God and members of the Holy Trinity.
- The Bible says Jesus was begotten by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:34-5. Is. 7:14. Matt. 1:18,20. Mormons see Jesus as being CREATED by sexual relations between God the father and mary. "The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood---was begotten of his Father as we were of our fathers" (Journal of Discourses vol.8, p.115); and "when the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness [flesh and blood]. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol.1, p.50). "I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ...he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it" (Journal of Discourses vol.8, p.211); "Now remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost" (Journal of Discourses, vol.1, p.51). Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended by any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit" (Religious Truths Defined, p.44). Bruce McConkie (LDS apostle) states: "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 547, 1979).Carfred Broderick (Mormon author) writes: "God is a procreating personage of flesh and bone...latter-day prophets have made it clear that despite what it says in Matthew 1:20, the Holy Ghost was not the father of Jesus...The Savior was fathered by a personage of flesh and bone" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn, 1967, p.100-101).
- Mormons see Jesus as a polygamist. Apostle Orson Hyde: "…Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee... Mary, Martha, and others were his wives ... he begat children" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.210). Jedediah M. Grant: "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do... Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified" (Journal of Discourses, vol.2, p.82). Orson Hyde: "It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it" (Journal of Discourses, vol.4, p.259). Orson Pratt: "We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born... We have also proved most clearly that the Son followed the example of his Father, and became the great Bridegroom to whom kings' daughters and many honorable wives are to be married" (The Seer, p. 172).
- The Bible says that Jesus created ALL things. This includes lucifer. Gen. 3:1, Ez. 28:13,15,17Mormons see Jesus as a brother of satan, not His brother.
- Mormons see Jesus was procreated as a spirit child of the Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother and later conceived physically by the Heavenly Father and an earthly mother: The Ensign, Jan. 1989, pp.28-29; Come Unto Christ by Ezra Taft Benson, p.4). Bruce McConkie states: "Christ the Word, the Firstborn, had of course attained unto the status of Godhood while yet in pre-existence" (What Mormons Think of Christ, p.36).
Bruce McConkie continues: "He is the Firstborn of the Father. By obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg. 129).
Orson Pratt: "God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity, by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born" (The Seer, p. 172).
"Jesus Christ is not the Father of the spirits who have taken or yet shall take bodies upon this earth, for He is one of them. He is The Son, as they are sons and daughters of Elohim." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol.4, Appendix 4).
By Guest Nicole
Pearl Doxsey, July 2, 2018:
Many refute that Michael the archangel is an identity of Jesus Christ, in his capacity as protector of the saints (Dan.12:1;John17:12; 6:39; 18:9; Rev.19:12) and defender of God's supremacy in the face of global idolatry (Rev.13:8,4)
(The name "Michael" means, "Who is like God?").
Those who refute that role of the resurrected Jesus Christ, point to the fact that Jesus could not be a mere angel, even if being, an arch - angel.
Those who make such an assertion, apparently do not know the meaning of the Greek word, angelos. It simply means "messenger" (John12:49; 7:16).
The Greek meaning of "arch", is defined as the original prototype, with no equal. To be the "archangel", is to be supreme among God's messengers.
When Armageddon arrives, Jesus takes on an identity of a warrior (Rev.19:11,14; 17:14; 12:7) (Rev.3:12; Jer.31:33; Heb.10:16;Ex.34:14; Deut.11:18; Rev.7:3; 13:7,8,16,4). The name "Michael" ("Who is like God?"), perfectly describes his battle tactic and purpose, and indicates the target of his warfare that needs to be neutralized by the strategy reflected in that victorious name (Isa.40:25,18; 46:5) (Rev.13:14).
Others may refute this named role of Jesus, based upon Michael being called "the great prince" (Dan.12:1) and "one of the chief princes" (Dan.10:12-14). Those are the topics that the link below, addresses.
The article on the chief princes was broken down into three parts/questions. Previously, only part one was finished. This post serves as notice, that part two is now ready.
June 6, 2015:
"does the Bible shed light on how many Chief Princes are there and who they are as stated in Daniel 10:13 Michael, one of the chief princes"
Yes, the Bible sheds light on how many Chief Princes there are,
who these chief princes are, and who all the princes are, among whom there are chief princes.
Accordingly, I will answer your question in three parts.
1. Who are all the "princes"?
2. Who are the "chief princes" among all these princes?
3. Who is The "Great Prince" ("arch-angel") mentioned at Dan.12:1?
(Jude1:9; Dan.10:21; 8:25; Acts 3:15)
(Jude1:9; Job 1:8-11; Zech.3:1-2; Rev.12:10 --
"Moses" -Deut.18:15,18; Heb.3:5; Matt.16:28; 17:1-3,5; 2Pet.1:18; Rev.14:1)
- - - - - - - - - - - -
1. Who are the Bible's princes?
I will limit my reply to the princes of God's covenant woman, and not include the princes of Satan's covenant of death
(Eph.2:2; Isa.31:9; Eze.21:25; 22:27; 38:3; Dan.9:26; 10:20; Zeph.3:3; Rev.18:23; 9:7).
The princes under the Great "guardian" Prince/Rescuer, (Dan.12:1; Isa.49:24-25; Matt.12:29; Rev.20:1-2; Luke10:19), who is Christ,
(Isa.9:6; Dan.9:25; 12:1; John17:12; 6:39; 10:28; Matt.28:20),
are the kings under the great king (Rev.19:16; 1:5; 3:21; 5:9,10; Eph.2:6; 1:22; Col.1:13).
They are also considered by God, Christ's sons, because by means of Christ, they receive spirit life (John10:10; 20:22; 6:63; 5:21;17:2; Rom.8:9,10,11,13; 1John4:9,13; 5:11-12; 2:25; John3:6,15,36; 6:47,48,51,57,63; 10:28; Heb.5:9). "But", you may protest, "don't we all become 'sons of God'?". Yes. But there is more to it.---
Within the Bible, forefathers are multiple. This tradition is a cultural difference from most modern day societies.
Please let me explain...
Within the Bible, living faithful can have more than one father... both God and Christ (Isa.9:6). Christ received his life from God first, before he can pass that incorruptible seed to those after him (1Pet.1:23; Luke8:11; John12:49; 6:63; James1:21).
"Grandfather" is not in the Bible's language. This is why Abraham, David, Jacob, etc., are considered "fathers" of many subsequent generations.
All the generations of their descendants, have all of these as "fathers"
(Zech.1:2,4-6; Acts3:13; 7:19; John8:39; Ex.3:6; Luke1:32; Matt.1:1), regardless of how many generations may come and go in between.
Accordingly, we should not limit the spiritual lineage of those born of spirit, to either God or Christ as "father". Such ones are "sons" of both. Yet some are born of God's spirit directly (Rom.8:16; Heb.2:11), and others, through Christ and his bride (1Cor.15:45; Gal.4:26; Rev.22:17).
You may have noticed that within the scriptures, our spiritual fathers are the ones whom we imitate (John8:39,44; Eph.5:1;1Pet.1:16; Matt.5:44,45,48). We can therefore, also be sons of Christ (1Pet.2:21) and of the sealed faithful (1Cor.11:1;4:15,14,16,17; 1John2:13,14; Philemon 1:10; Luke1:17; Phil.2:22; 3:17; 1Thess.2:11; 1:6) (Mal.4:5-6).
Hopefully, all these previous scriptures have helped to establish within your understanding, that whoever we imitate and do the will of, becomes our spiritual father (Eph.5:1; Matt.12:50; 7:21; 1John2:17; Rom.8:14) -- (Eph.2:2; John8:44).
If you do grasp that imitating Christ (1Cor.11:1; 1Pet.2:21) can make us his son, it will then be easier to grasp who the "princes" are.
First, lets look at Ps.45:16, which speaks of the dominion of Christ.
"In place of your fathers will be your sons;
You shall make them princes in all the earth."
In place of Christ's kingly forefathers (Luke1:32; Isa.9:7; Matt.12:42), will come his spiritual sons (Heb.2:1-9,14,13,16; Isa.8:18;John10:28,29; 6:37-39; 17:2; 1Pet.1:5; Matt.18:3; 19:14), with whom he shares his kingdom (Ps.132:12; 110:2; Rev.3:21; 14:1;Jer.17:25; Eze.37:25; 34:24) (Heb.2:5,16; Rom.4:13; Gal.3:29; Gen.28:13,14; 13:14,15).
They become co-kings (2Tim.2:12; Rev.5:9,10; 20:6) and co-princes (Isa.10:8; 9:6; Acts3:15; 5:31; Isa.32:1,2).
As heirs of the earth, these will heal creation (Rom.8:19; Rev.22:1,2; 21:2-5; Jer.17:7,8; Matt.7:20; Eze.36:8), and also provide a "fatherly" example, that leads to life (1Cor.4:15-17; Phil.3:17; 4:9; 2Thess.3:9; 1Thess.1:6; 2Tim.3:14,15; Heb.13:7; 1Pet.5:3).
From the foregoing reply to the first question...
"Who are all the princes?";
I hope you now perceive, that all those redeemed from death by Christ (Rev.5:9,10; 1Cor.15:54-55; Acts20:28) which "church" is the chosen saints of God's household (1Tim.3:15; 1Cor.14:33; 1Pet.2:10,9), are given fatherly life by Christ's blood...
(through the new mother covenant of promise/sealed Bride
-Gal.4:26,24; Matt.26:28; Rom.9:8; Rev.12:2; Gal.4:19; Eph.4:13; 1Thess.2:7; 3John1:4)
...These are his "sons", referred to as "princes" at Psalm 45:16.
As such, they become "heirs of the earth"
(Rom.4:13; Gal.3:29; Heb.2:5,16; Matt.5:5; Psalm.37:11,22,29)
"all the princes".
2. Who are the "chief princes" among all these princes?
Based upon the facts established above, we can re-word this question as, "Who are the "chief saints/sons of God" among all the saints/anointed chosen and holy ones?". Does such a position, exist? Please consider:
Luke 12:42; John 21:17
Although all members of the "one body" bride of Christ (Eph.5:31-32; 1Cor.6:17) are needed by all other members (1Cor.12:21,25;4:7); each has their own assignment (1Cor.12:14,4-7,18,11,20; Eph.4:8,11-12).
Some are given more responsibility (Luke 12:42; Mark 13:34; Matt.25:14-15; James 3:1; 1Cor.12:24,26; Luke 14:8,10-11), as "chief princes". How does the Bible describe the position held by those appointed as such?
One of the symbols used to describe the body of Christ, is as God's Temple (Rom.12:5; 1Cor.3:16; 1Pet.2:5,9-10; Col.1:13).
Jesus, is described as the cornerstone of that Temple (1Pet.2:6-8; Matt.7:24-25). If we build our faith upon the teachings of that cornerstone, we will not be put to shame but all we teach, will be proven true (Rom.10:11; 3:4; John7:16-18). Can you perceive how the symbolic "chief" cornerstone of our faith (remember, "chief princes"?), is the first symbolic foundation to our worship in spirit and truth?
If so, then we are starting to build the Temple of God, within your perception. If the "chief cornerstone" is the "great prince"/"chief prince" (Dan.12:1)... What about the other "chief princes" (Dan.10:13)? Does the Bible describe the rest of God's symbolic Temple, as having other foundation stones, upon which our faith needs to be chiefly built upon?
Please consider Eph.2:20-22; 3:5; Rev.21:14; 1:20; Dan.12:3-4; Phil.2:15; 2Cor.11:4; Gal.1:8-9; Luke12:42; 1Pet.5:2;Heb.13:17; 1Cor.4:15)
1Cor.12:28 and Eph.2:20, clarify the arrangement of authority ("chiefs") within the congregation, appointed by God and Christ. The apostles are our foundation stones, along with Jesus the cornerstone, of the truth.
---No one can remain in union with the cornerstone and head of the body, if they leave the teachings of the apostles, whom he appointed as fatherly heads to the 12 tribes of spiritual Israel (Matt.3:9; Gal.3:29,26; Rom.2:28-29; Rev.7:7; 21:11-12,14).
---No one can remain in union with the unfolding direction of holy spirit, if they leave the declarations and warnings of the genuine and faithful prophets, whose foundation is the right hand of Jesus (Rev.1:20; 22:6; Amos 3:7; 2Pet.1:21; 1Cor.14:32-33;Rev.11:3-5; Jer.23:29; Zech.4:11-14,6; Hosea 6:5; Rev.22:6; Mal.3:1-3; Rev.11:3). Those "stars" provide the light of spirit to each of their assigned "lampstands" (Rev.1:20), which lampstands hold up, and work to make visible (Matt.5:14-15; Eph.2:19;Gal.6:10), the prophet/"star" whom they support (Heb.6:10).
We have learned that the symbolic foundation to the Temple of God's spirit (1Cor.3:16), is the truth of the apostles and the spirit of the prophets (Eph.2:20; 3:5). They are both necessary if a disciple is to lay a foundation of faith and worship, upon spirit and truth (John4:24). The apostles and prophets who produce spiritual food sourced in the spirit and truth from Christ (John15:4-5,8,16;Rev.22:1-2), are the "chief princes"/foundation stones. They are aligned with the cornerstone, and provide a basis upon which the living stones of the Temple of God, rest.
3. Who is The "Great Prince" ("arch-angel") mentioned at Dan.12:1?
Dan.12:1 reads; “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered."
[Before I go into Part 3: The Great Prince; I would like to offer additional information on other points made by Dan.12:1.
First, the unprecedented "time of distress". Here is a link to start off the information about the Great Tribulation (Matt.24:21)
Second, the Book of the Lamb, within which the names of the delivered, are written (Rev.13:8; 21:27; 3:5; 17:8; 20:15,12)
(TO BE CONTINUED)
Pearl Doxsey – “WHO ARE THE CHIEF PRINCES?”
One thing that has always puzzled me is this: what happened to the spirit creature Michael when Jesus was conceived/born as a human? We are told that Jehovah transferred Michael's life pattern into Jesus in much the same way as God will do for those who are resurrected. This would mean that when Jesus was alive on earth there was no Michael in heaven. As we do not believe that humans have a spirit, in the accepted sense of the word, the question remains, what happened to Michael during Jesus earthly presence?
BIBLE PROOFS OF THE TRINITY
Key: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are so clearly and consistently linked in Scripture that, assuming that God is not three persons, makes it impossible to understand some passages.
Though JWs exalt human reasoning against the Trinity doctrine, saying it is unreasonable,those who submit to God’s Word must conclude that it is unreasonable to doubt the Trinity.
Consider these scriptures proving the Trinity:
1. Matthew 28:19 The ‘Name’ of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Watchtower teaching: JWs ask, ‘Does this verse prove the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal in substance, power and eternity?’ They say, ‘No, no more than listing three people
Tom, Dick and Harry mean that they are three in one.’ They say that the Trinity doctrine is imposed on the text, not derived from it.
Bible Teaching: The key point is that the word ‘name’ is singular in the Greek NT, thus proving that there is one God, but three distinct persons within the Godhead.
This proves the Trinity because Jesus did not say:
i) ‘into the names (plural) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.’
ii) ‘into the name of the Father, and into the name of the Son, and into the name of the Holy Spirit’, as if we had three separate beings.
iii) ‘into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit’ omitting the three articles (the), as if the Father, Son and Holy Spirit might be three designations of a single person.
What He does say is: ‘into the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit’.
Jesus first teaches the unity of the three by combining them all within a single name.
He then teaches that each is a different person by introducing each of them in turn with the
Question: Can you see that rules of grammar dictate plurality (the, the, the) within unity (the name), because the word ‘name’ is singular and definite articles (Greek: tou) are placed in front of Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Other verses showing ‘three-in-oneness’ of the Godhead are:
i) At the creation of man, ‘God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness . .’ (Genesis 1:26). ‘Our image’ in v. 26 is explained as God’s image in v. 27.
The one true God consists of three persons who are able to confer with one another and carry out their plans together, while still being one God.
ii) After the Fall, ‘the Lord (Jehovah) God (Elohim) said, Behold, the man is become as one of us . ’ (Genesis 3:22)
‘Us’ refers back to LORD (Jehovah), showing plurality within the Jehovah Godhead.
iii) At the Tower of Babel, ‘the LORD (Jehovah), said . . let us go down’ (Genesis 11:6,7).
iv) Isaiah ‘saw the Lord (Adonai) sitting upon a throne (v.1) mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts (v.5). I heard the voice of the Lord (Adonai) saying: ‘Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?’’ (Isaiah 6:1,5,8) Here Isaiah sees ‘Adonai’ on the throne, then Isaiah calls Him ‘Jehovah of hosts’ (v.5).
Then Adonai asks,‘Who will go for us?’The ‘us’ shows plurality in the Jehovah Godhead. This equivalence of Adonai and Jehovah (both called ‘us’) proves the Trinity Godhead.
2. Genesis 18 and 19. Three men each called Jehovah.
JWs believe that it is impossible for Jehovah God to exist as three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Yet Genesis 18 and 19 shows Jehovah appearing to Abraham as three men. This
shows that even the impossible from a human viewpoint is possible with God. Notice that:
i) Abraham addresses the three as ‘Jehovah’ (v.3 NWT);
ii) When two of the three men depart to visit Lot in Sodom, Abraham continues to address the remaining one as ‘Jehovah’ (Genesis 18:22,26,27,30,31,32,33).
iii) Lot addressed the other two as ‘Jehovah’ (Genesis 19:1,18 NWT). ‘Then Lot said to them: “Not that please, Jehovah”.’ (19:18 NWT)
iv) ‘Then Jehovah made it rain sulphur and fire from Jehovah, from the heavens upon Sodom and Gomorra.’ (Genesis 19:24)
Notice the mention here of two Jehovahs, one in heaven who sends judgment on Sodom and Gomorra, at the bidding of the other Jehovah on earth.
This gives strong evidence for more than one person in the Godhead. The Jehovah upon earth was one of three persons to visit Abraham, one of whom stays behind to speak further to Abraham and is called Jehovah. (Genesis 21:1 ‘Jehovah turned his attention to Sarah’).
Hence this shows that it is possible for Jehovah to manifest Himself as three-in-one.
3. II Corinthians 3:17 - ‘Jehovah is the Spirit’ (NWT).
JWs challenge Christians to prove the Trinity in the Bible. This can be done if we find verses teaching that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah God, and the Son is Jehovah God.
II Corinthians 3:17 teaches this by saying: ‘Now Jehovah is the Spirit.’
How much clearer can it be than this, which states that the Holy Spirit is (=) Jehovah God? This proves the Deity of the Holy Spirit, and the existence of 2 persons in the Godhead.
4. I John 5:7,8 The Johannine Comma, the famous Trinitarian proof text (3 Heavenly witnesses)
Watchtower teaching: JWs claim that this passage ought not to be in the Bible, because it is not in most Greek manuscripts. It is omitted by most modern Bible versions. ’
Bible Teaching: Erasmus omitted it from his first edition of the printed Greek NT (1516), because it occurred in the Latin Vulgate and not in any Greek manuscript. To quieten the
outcry that followed, he agreed to restore it if it could be found in one Greek manuscript.
Two Greek manuscripts, Codex 61 and 629 were found, so Erasmus included it in his 1522 edition. Since these manuscripts are late (14th and 15th Century), some think the readings are
corrupt. What do we answer? (See page 805-806).
5. In II Corinthians 13:14, (the Apostolic Benediction) why is there a change in the order of the persons of the Trinity, compared to Matthew 28:19, if not to show that ‘in this Trinity
none is before or after the other, and none is greater or less than another’?
‘The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.’ (II Corinthians 13:14)
‘Baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.’ Matt. 28:19
Isaiah 9:6 - Is Jesus ‘a Mighty God’ or ‘Jehovah God’?
‘His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God (410), the Everlasting
Father, the Prince of Peace’.
Watchtower teaching: JWs concede that Jesus is a ‘mighty God’, but they are adamant that
He is not Almighty God as Jehovah is. They think that Christ is one of lesser gods.
Bible teaching: The Bible shows that both Jesus and Jehovah are called ‘Mighty God’.
Jehovah is called ‘Mighty God’ in:
a) ‘The remnant of Israel . . . shall stay upon Jehovah, the remnant of Jacob shall return . .
unto the mighty God (410)’. (Isaiah 10:20,21).
b) ‘the Great, the Mighty God (410), Jehovah of hosts, is his name’. (Jeremiah 32:18).
Because Jehovah and Jesus are both called ‘Mighty God’, this proves Christ’s equality with
God the Father.
Ask: Since Jehovah is called ‘Mighty God’ (Isaiah 10:21) just as Jesus is called ‘Mighty
God’ (Isaiah 9:6), doesn’t this mean that the Watchtower is wrong in saying that ‘Mighty
God’ means a lesser deity?
Ask: If both Jesus and Jehovah are ‘Mighty God’, then what does this tell you about Jesus’
Ask: If both Jesus and Jehovah are equally ‘Mighty God’, then isn’t this two members of
Note: There is only one Mighty God in heaven:
a) ‘I am the first and I am the last; beside me there is no God (430)’. (Isaiah 44:6b)
b) ‘Is there a God (433) besides Me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any’.(Isaiah 44:8b).
c) ‘I am the Lord (YHWH), and there is none else,there is no God beside me’(Isaiah 45:5a)
The NWT translates John 1:1 as ‘the word was a god’.
Isaiah 44:8b shows this to be false by denying the existence of ‘a god’ other than Jehovah.
The phrase ‘Mighty God’ is ‘Elohim’ in Hebrew, meaning ‘Fullness of power’, portraying
Christ as the ‘powerful Governor of the universe’.
Notice that ‘Elohim (430)’ is also used to describe Jehovah God as:
i) ‘The God (430) of the whole earth’. (Isaiah 54:5)
ii) ‘The God (430) of all flesh’. (Jeremiah 32:27)
iii) ‘I prayed to the God (430) of heaven’. (Nehemiah 2:4)
iv) ‘For the Lord (YHWH) your God (430) is God (430) of gods....a great God.’(Deut 10:17)
In Isaiah 40:3 Jesus is called both Jehovah (3068) and Elohim (430) in the same verse:
‘Prepare ye the way of the Jehovah, make straight in the desert a highway for our God (430)’.
Mark 1:3 and John 1:23 apply Jehovah here to Jesus.
Question: What is meant by calling Jesus ‘Everlasting Father’?
Since Jesus is not the Father, why does Isaiah call Jesus ‘Everlasting Father’?
Answer: Jesus considers the Father as someone other than Himself over 200 times in the NT.
‘Everlasting Father’ in Isaiah 9:6 means ‘Father of eternity’.
JEHOVAH’S NAME or JESUS CHRIST’S NAME.
The Watchtower teaches that God’s true Name is Jehovah. They teach that:
‘Sometime during the second or third Century CE, the scribes removed the tetragrammaton (JHWH) from both the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures and replaced it with κυριος (Lord) or θεος (God)’. Reference Edition of NWT, 1984, p 1564.
The Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT) proves that Jesus is Jehovah God.
On page 10,11 of the 1985 KIT, under the heading ‘Restoring the Divine Name, Jehovah’ we read: ‘the evidence (what evidence?) is that the original text of the Christian Greek Scriptures has been tampered with (no proof) . . . Sometime during the second or third centuries CE, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) was eliminated from the Greek texts by copyists (no proof).
Instead of YHWH they substituted the words Kurios (‘Lord’) and Theos (‘God’).’
Note: This is a lie. There is no historical or manuscript evidence or evidence of protest to support this claim. Somebody would have protested such a change.No one did. It never happened.
The New World Translation (NWT) is the JW perversion of the Bible made to support their false doctrines. It inserts the name ‘Jehovah’ in the New Testament in the place of God (θεος=theos) or Lord (κυριος =kurios) on 237 occasions, where they believe it refers to God the
Father. They often refer to Hebrew translations of the NT to see where this has been done.
These are footnoted as J1 to J27. Their dishonesty and deceit is shown by their failure to translate these words as ‘Jehovah’ when it refers to Christ. (eg: Philippians 2:11; Hebrews 1:10).
JWs say that the proper use of God’s ‘correct’ name (Jehovah) is absolutely essential to one’s salvation. They quote from their NWT:
‘Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.’ Romans 10:13 (NWT).
‘People will have to know that I am Jehovah.’ Ezekiel 39:6 (NWT).
JWs believe that because they are the only group who refer to God by His ‘true’ name, Jehovah, they are the only true followers of God.
Their claim is false for these reasons:
1) Jehovah is not a Biblical term. It is a man-made term. The Old Testament has YHWH because the original Hebrew only had consonants. Jews feared taking God’s name in vain, so when they publicly read YHWH, they would pronounce it ‘Adonai’ (Lord).
Later they inserted the vowels from Adonai (a-o-a) into the consonants YHWH to give YAHOWAH, which became Jehovah. Hence, the word Jehovah comes from a consonantvowel
combination from YHWH and Adonai.
2) No-one knows for sure the original correct pronunciation of YHWH. Hence we cannot insist on ‘Jehovah’ as being correct.
3) Jesus never addressed the Father as Jehovah in the New Testament. If JWs are correct that God must be always called Jehovah, then Jesus was sinning by not calling God ‘Jehovah’. When the NWT puts Jehovah in Jesus’ mouth in the NT, it contradicts all the NT manuscripts which don’t have it.
QUESTION: Since Jesus never in the NT addressed the Father as Jehovah, why should we?
4) Jesus and the Apostle Paul tell us to address God as ‘Father’:
a) Jesus taught us to pray to God as ‘Our Father’, not ‘Our Jehovah’: ‘After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father.....’ (Matthew 6:9).
b) Jesus addressed God as Father in His own prayers:
‘I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth’. (Matthew 11:25).
‘O my Father, if it be possible.......’ (Matthew 26:39,42).
‘He said, Abba, Father.......’ (Mark 14:36).
‘ I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven.......’ (Luke 10:21).
‘Saying, Father, if thou be willing.......’ (Luke 22:42).
‘Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them;.......’ (Luke 23:34).
‘Father, the hour is come......’ (John 17:1).
c) Paul said, ‘we cry, Abba, Father.’ (Romans 8:15).
d) The Holy Spirit through Paul said, ‘God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father’. (Galatians 4:6).
Here the Holy Spirit of God tells us to call God ‘Abba, Father’, not ‘Jehovah’
QUESTION: If Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Paul all address God as Father nine times (and never as Jehovah) then shouldn’t we call God ‘Father’?
5) No Ancient NT manuscripts contain the tetragram (YHWH) to translate as Jehovah.
The Church writers before 325 AD only mention Jehovah once in passing. JWs tell us that most Bible versions deceive people because they omit Jehovah as God’s Name, so
the JWs dishonestly add the word ‘Jehovah’ to the NT text, even though it is not in any NT Greek manuscript, ancient version, papyri or lectionary.
The WT’s claim that ‘Jehovah’ as God’s name was removed from the NT by superstitious scribes, is a total lie with no supporting historical or manuscript evidence.
6) Whose Name did the early Christians identify themselves with? Was it Jehovah or was it Jesus Christ? Always Jesus Christ, never Jehovah.
Who knows more, the Apostles or modern JWs? Consider these examples:
a) The Apostles never used the name ‘Jehovah’.
b) The Apostles and first century Christians were never called ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’. ‘The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.’ (Acts 11:26).
c) There is no proof that Jesus or his disciples ever pronounced the tetragram YHWH.
JWs claim that when Jesus read from Isaiah 61:1 ‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me....’ as quoted in Luke 4:18,19, that Jesus pronounced the word ‘YHWH’.
This is most unlikely. JWs assume that the religious leaders endorsing Christ’s ‘gracious words’ in verse 22 was because He uttered the name YHWH?
Historical records in the Mishnah, from Josephus, and from other sources show the Jews were loathe to allow the name YHWH to be used. The Jews would not have tolerated it being used by anybody but the High Priest.Jesus would have read ‘Adonai’
7) 119 Bible passages referring to Jehovah, are quoted and applied to Christ in the New Testament (Proof Available)
QUESTION: In view of 119 Bible verses applying ‘Jehovah’ to Christ in the NT, what does this tell you about who Christ is?
? The New Testament tells us to name the name of Jesus Christ, not the name of Jehovah. Consider these examples:
1. ‘Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.’(II Timothy 2:19)
2. ‘I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ . . .’ (I Cor 1:10)
3. ‘Ye are washed,....sanctified,... justified in the name of the Lord Jesus ’ (I Cor 6:11)
4. ‘Whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus.’ (Col 3:17)
5. ‘That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you....’ (II Thess 1:12)
6. ‘Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves.....’ (II Thess. 3:6)
7. ‘all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours.’ (I Corinthians 1:2)
8. ‘Thou holdest fast my name....’ Jesus said to the Pergamos church. (Revelation 2:13).
JWs have not held fast Christ’s name, nor have they called upon Christ’s name, nor do they name the name of Christ, nor is Jesus Christ precious to them, because they do not have saving belief in Him. ‘Unto you . . . which believe He is precious’.(I Peter 2:7).
QUESTION: Where does the NT tell us to name the name of Jehovah?
9) The New Testament always lifts up Jesus Christ’s name, not Jehovah’s name. Why?
Because Jesus Christ is Jehovah God on earth. Christ is 100% God and 100% man.
Q1: In whose name should we meet together?
‘Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.’ (Matthew 18:20)
Q2: Demons were cast out by the authority of whose name?
‘Paul.....said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.’ (Acts 16:18)
Q3: In whose name should we preach repentance and forgiveness of sins? ‘And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations. And ye are witnesses of these things.’ (Luke 24:47,48)
Q4: In whose name are we to believe and receive forgiveness of sins? ‘....through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.’ (Acts 10:43, John 1:12)
Q5: By whose name, and no other, do we obtain salvation? Acts 4:10,12 says: ‘by the name of Jesus Christ ... Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.’
Q6: In whose name should we pray? John 16:23,24; 14:13,14; 15:16 says: ‘Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.’
Q7: In whose name is the Holy Spirit sent?
‘But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name......’ (John 14:26)
Q8: In whose name and authority did the disciples heal the sick?
‘His name through faith in his name hath made this man strong’ (Acts 3:16; 4:30)
Q9: Whose name did Paul say that we are to call upon?
‘ all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.’ (I Cor 1:2)
Q10: Whose name is above every name?
‘God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name .... that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.’(Phil 2:9-11)
Paul’s quote about Christ is from Isaiah 45:22-24 where every knee will bow to Jehovah. What is true about Jehovah, is also true of Christ, the Lord of all mankind
Q11: According to Acts 1:8, of whom are we to be witnesses?
‘Ye shall be witnesses unto me (Jesus)’
Q12: In whose name were believers baptized?
‘they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus’. (Acts 8:16; 2:38)
Q13: In whose name were believers designated?
‘the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch’. (Acts 11:26)
Q14: In whose name did the apostles speak?
‘Commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus’ Acts 4:17,18
Q15: In whose name did early Christians suffer? Acts 15:26 says:
‘Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.’ ‘rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name’Acts 5:41;9:16
Q16: Whose name was Paul to carry?
‘Lord said: He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.’ (Acts 9:15)
Q17: In whose name did Paul deliver a man to Satan?
‘In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ...to deliver such an one to Satan.’ I Cor 5:4,5
Q18: In whose name did the apostles teach? Acts 5:28; 8:12 says:
‘Did we not straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name?’
10) Why does WT break their own rule (where the OT speaks of Jehovah), that they do not insert Jehovah in the NT, when the quote clearly refers to Christ?
Peter quotes from Joel 2:32 (spoken of Jehovah) and applies it to Jesus in Acts 2:21 and 38.
Calling on the name of Jehovah for salvation equals repenting and being baptised in the name of Jesus Christ because of the forgiveness of sins.
Conclusion: Jesus shares the nature of His Father and His Name. The absence of YHWH in any NT manuscript demolishes the WT case of introducing the word ‘Jehovah’ into the NT.
Question: If God was so concerned about preserving His covenant name, why did the apostles not preserve it in their writings?
Question: To imply that the name ‘Jehovah’ is the main name of God that we are to use, contradicts the continued NT use of the name ‘Jesus’ on 900 occasions, while the tetragram YHWH is used nowhere in the NT.
QUESTION: Why does the WT not translate ‘Jehovah’ into Hebrews 1:10, I Peter 3:15 andPhilippians 2:11, when the OT passages from which these are quoted refer to YHWH?
We are to make the name of the Father known as Jesus emphasized (Matthew 6:9; John 17:26). How do we do it? By recognizing that Jesus Christ was chosen by the Father to embody all the glory and important reputation of that Name.
CHRIST’S BODILY RESURRECTION ‘I have power to take it again’Jn 10:18
Watchtower Teaching: ‘Jesus was raised to life as an invisible spirit. He did not take up again that body in which he had been killed . . .’ ‘Let your Name be sanctified.’ (p.266).
The Watchtower teaches that Jesus’ body was disposed of by God.
The NWT mistranslates I Peter 3:18 as ‘being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit’ to teach merely a spiritual resurrection of Christ.
Bible Teaching: I Peter 3:18 refers to when Christ died. His Spirit went and preached to spirits in prison (v. 19,20). After three days, Christ’s physical body was raised.
I Peter 3:18 (KJV) correctly reads: ‘being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.’
Which Scriptures best teach Christ’s bodily resurrection?
1. ‘They were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.’ (v.37) He said unto them, ‘Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.’ (Luke 24:37, 39)
Notice that the resurrected Christ says here that:
(1) He is not a spirit;
(2) His resurrection body has flesh and bones;
(3) His physical hands and feet are proof of His physical resurrection;
Jesus is trying to convince them that He, ‘I myself’ has a permanent physical body which still had the nail scars in His hands and feet. This is opposite to the WT teaching that Christ’s body was disposed of and that He became only a spirit. If the WT claim was correct, then
Jesus would be deceiving the disciples here in showing them His body.
2. ‘Then saith he to Thomas, . . . reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.’ (John 20:27)
Here Jesus says that He has a physical side that He challenges Thomas to touch.
3. ‘Neither did his flesh see corruption.’ - Acts 2:30,31
Notice the following:
a) God promised David that ‘according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ’ to sit on his throne.’ (v.30). This is a bodily resurrection of Christ, not spiritual. The NWT omits this because of its corrupt Westcott-Hort Greek text. Well over 38 manuscripts have it.
b) ‘neither did his flesh see corruption’ (v.31) means that Christ’s body did not decay.
Why? Because Jesus was raised from the dead in a material, fleshly body.
4. ‘I will raise it up . . . he spake of the temple of his body.’ - John 2:19-21
‘Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up (v.19). But he spake of the temple of his body.’ (v.21)
Jesus here promised that He Himself would raise up His own body after three days.
Notice how Jesus uses the word ‘body’ meaning a bodily resurrection, not a spiritual resurrection.
5. Christ promises to eat of the fruit of the vine in the Kingdom. Only a body can eat.
‘I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the Kingdom of God shall come.’(Luke 22:18)
Jesus here showed that his resurrected body would be able to eat and drink even in the Kingdom of God. Notice that a non-material spirit cannot eat and drink. Jesus promised the disciples in Luke 22:30 ‘that ye may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom.’
Question: If Jesus expected to become an immaterial spirit, why would He promise the disciples that they would eat and drink with Christ at His table in His Kingdom?
6. Christ ate a broiled fish and a honeycomb in front of them. Luke 24:41,42.
7. ‘he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies’. Rom. 8:11
As Christ’s body was raised physically from the dead, so shall our mortal bodies be raised.
8. His resurrection body could ‘breathe on them’(John 20:22). A spirit cannot breathe, can it?
9. ‘His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives...’ Zechariah 14:4
A spirit does not have feet. Only a physical body has feet as Jesus has at His second coming.
10. ‘One shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands?’ Zechariah 13:6
Question: How can a non-material spirit have wounds in his hands which can be observed?
11. The resurrected, glorified Christ touched John, laying his right hand on him. Rev. 1:17
Watchtower Objection: JWs quote I Corinthians 15:44,50 to support their claim that Jesus was raised from the dead as a spirit creature:
a) ‘It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.’ (v.44)
b) ‘flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.’ (v.50). JWs claim that Jesus must have had a spiritual resurrection, because flesh-and-blood bodies cannot exist in heaven.
They claim that mortality and corruption belong to the fleshly body.
a) The Greek word for body, ‘soma’ (4983), always means a material body, an organised whole made up of parts, when used of a person (Zodhiates, NT Word Study,p.1358). The spiritual
body in I Cor.15:44 is not an immaterial body, but a supernatural, spirit-dominated body.
It is a body directed by the spirit, as opposed to a body under the dominion of the flesh.
There are no exceptions to Paul using ‘soma’ for a material body.
Paul even refers to a believer as a ‘spiritual’ man who judges all things (I Cor. 2:15), yet Paul did not mean an immaterial invisible man with no physical body.
He meant a spirit-controlled man with a flesh and blood body.
QUESTION: In I Corinthians 2:15 (‘He that is spiritual judgeth all things’), is Paul discussing an invisible spirit creature or a material, flesh-and-blood human? Can you see that being ‘spiritual’ does not demand a non-material body? The same is true in I Corinthians 15:44.
b) Key: In v.50 ‘flesh and blood’ is an idiom meaning that mortal, perishable, earth-bound
humans, as we are now, cannot have a place in God’s glorious, heavenly Kingdom.
c) ‘this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.’v.53
Nothing is taken away from us (materialness). Instead immortality is ‘put on’ or added to us.
Question: Don’t the words ‘put on’ mean adding something to humanity (that is immortality),
not taking away something from humanity (our material body)?
Conclusion: Since Christ’s resurrected body could eat, drink, breathe (John 20:22), show His hands and feet with scars (Luke 24:40), be touched, and have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39), it is certain that this body was a material body. This is especially true since Jesus corrected the disciples’ misconception that they had seen a spirit (Luke 24:37).
For the JWs to say that a body is not a body, is their last resort of redefining common words.
One of the most striking features of the teachings of Jesus is that He was constantly talking about Himself. And to enter into the Kingdom depends on how we respond to Him personally; He even called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom”.
This self teaching of Jesus is one of the first things that set Jesus apart from the other religious teachers of the world. Jesus points people to Himself saying “I am the truth; follow me” No other founder of the world religions would dare say such a thing and expect to be taken seriously.
The personal pronouns that Jesus uses force us to pay attention.
"I am the bread of life…” (John 6:35)
"I am the light of the world…" (John 8:12)
"I am the resurrection and the life…” (John 11:25)
The great question on Jesus’ teachings about Himself leads to Him asking, “Who do you say that I am?” (Matt. 16:15).
Jesus had such a strong opinion of Himself, it is not surprise that he should call people to Himself, “Come to me” and “Follow me”.
Jesus offered Himself as someone in whom His contemporaries should put their faith in and to whom they should offer their love to. People are to believe in God – Jesus urged them that to have eternal life people are to believe in Him (John 3:36).
So when we look at the biblical evidence for the true Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ one cannot help noticing Jesus’ own self-consciousness witness of Himself, in other words, His self-understanding…what did Jesus think and believe about Himself?
Let’s have a look at what Jesus says about Himself and whether what He says reflects a consciousness of being Deity?
Keep in mind that what follows is NOT an exhaustive study, but just a brief expose of the topic.
In Mark 2:5-10 we read: “When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’ Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, ‘Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, ‘Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins....’"
When the paralytic was lowered through the roof by his four friends, Jesus did not respond with a comment about the man’s physical condition or his need of healing. Rather, his initial comment was, “your sins are forgiven”. The reaction of the scribes indicates the meaning they attached to his words: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
What we have is a strong statement of divine authority, and the context shows that it was a blasphemous assertion IF HE WAS NOT GOD! Notice that He does not answer their charges with a "Hold on now! I am not claiming to be God! I am claiming something less!"--not at all!
The reaction of the Jews shows that they interpreted Jesus’ words that He was exercising the prerogative that belong to God alone (see Isa, 43:25). Here was an excellent opportunity for Jesus to correct the scribes if they had misunderstood the significance of His words. Note that He did not. In fact His response is highly enlightening for He goes on to claims that He has that prerogative of God, notice also how Jesus knew their thoughts; only God can know the thoughts of men (Acts 15:8; 2 Chron. 6:29; 1 Kings 8:38). More can be said but I’ll leave that for another time. <><
By James Thomas Rook Jr.
As my wife and I are preparing to adopt five children, and knowing historically how many elders' children have abandoned the Truth, for whatever reasons there might be, common to mankind ... the thought occurred to me ... Were all of the Apostles Single?
If any were married, how did they balance their responsibilities to their families, with the field ministry?
If they were in the Ministry, were they supported by the congregations from the Apostles money box ... and were their families also supported as they rove about ministering about the Good News?
If so, that would indicate a paid clergy !
I suppose it all hinges on he first question.
WERE ALL OF THE APOSTLES SINGLE ?
By Guest Nicole
The Memorial of Christ is not the Last Supper that the world continues to celebrate. The Last Supper can also be rendered the Last Passover Meal. The Jewish Day began at Sunset. Since the Sun sets at various times, the Passover Supper would begin after the Sun disappeared from the Horizon with darkness setting in. The Last Passover Meal was Nisan 14th, 33 CE with the abolishment of the Old Covenant.
When evening came, he was reclining at the table with the 12 disciples. ?While they were eating, he said: Â“Truly I say to you, one of you will betray me.Â” (
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )Â Â The event that concluded the Last Passover Meal was the dismissal of an unfaithful apostle.Â Jesus answered: Â“It is the one to whom I will give the piece of bread that I dip.Â” So after dipping the bread, he took it and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. ?After Judas took the piece of bread, then Satan entered into him. So Jesus said to him: Â“What you are doing, do it more quickly.Â”Â (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )Â Â“So after he received the piece of bread, he went out immediately. And it was night.Â” (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) After dismissing the betrayer from the midst of the Faithful Disciples, Jesus instituted a new teaching for His Faithful Followers.Â Notice, the whole world wasnÂ’t invited, but those who proved to be faithful and trustworthy up to this point.Â Since the founding of the Christian Congregation on Pentecost 33 CE, Christians have been commemorating the death of Jesus Christ every Nisan 14th.Â With one simple command,Â his faithful sheep Â“Keep doing this in remembrance of me.Â” (
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) Please join us for the annual observance of the death of Jesus Christ. This year it will be held onÂ Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. .Â Â Â Search for yourÂ
Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Â
By Guest Nicole