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Jesus' Self-Witness


Cos

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One of the most striking features of the teachings of Jesus is that He was constantly talking about Himself. And to enter into the Kingdom depends on how we respond to Him personally; He even called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom”.

 

This self teaching of Jesus is one of the first things that set Jesus apart from the other religious teachers of the world. Jesus points people to Himself saying “I am the truth; follow me” No other founder of the world religions would dare say such a thing and expect to be taken seriously.

 

The personal pronouns that Jesus uses force us to pay attention.

 

"I am the bread of life…” (John 6:35)

 

"I am the light of the world…" (John 8:12)

 

"I am the resurrection and the life…”  (John 11:25)

 

The great question on Jesus’ teachings about Himself leads to Him asking, “Who do you say that I am?” (Matt. 16:15).

 

Jesus had such a strong opinion of Himself, it is not surprise that he should call people to Himself, “Come to me” and “Follow me”.

 

Jesus offered Himself as someone in whom His contemporaries should put their faith in and to whom they should offer their love to. People are to believe in God – Jesus urged them that to have eternal life people are to believe in Him (John 3:36).

 

So when we look at the biblical evidence for the true Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ one cannot help noticing Jesus’ own self-consciousness witness of Himself, in other words, His self-understanding…what did Jesus think and believe about Himself?

 

Let’s have a look at what Jesus says about Himself and whether what He says reflects a consciousness of being Deity?

 

Keep in mind that what follows is NOT an exhaustive study, but just a brief expose of the topic.

 

In Mark 2:5-10 we read: “When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’ Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, ‘Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?’  Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, ‘Why are you thinking these things?  Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'?  But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins....’"

 

When the paralytic was lowered through the roof by his four friends, Jesus did not respond with a comment about the man’s physical condition or his need of healing. Rather, his initial comment was, “your sins are forgiven”. The reaction of the scribes indicates the meaning they attached to his words: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

 

What we have is a strong statement of divine authority, and the context shows that it was a blasphemous assertion IF HE WAS NOT GOD! Notice that He does not answer their charges with a "Hold on now! I am not claiming to be God! I am claiming something less!"--not at all!

 

The reaction of the Jews shows that they interpreted Jesus’ words that He was exercising the prerogative that belong to God alone (see Isa, 43:25). Here was an excellent opportunity for Jesus to correct the scribes if they had misunderstood the significance of His words. Note that He did not. In fact His response is highly enlightening for He goes on to claims that He has that prerogative of God, notice also how Jesus knew their thoughts; only God can know the thoughts of men (Acts 15:8; 2 Chron. 6:29; 1 Kings 8:38). More can be said but I’ll leave that for another time. <><

 

 

 

 

 

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Matt 28:18: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.... John 5:22: "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,..." Hi Cos. See

One of the most striking features of the teachings of Jesus is that He was constantly talking about Himself. And to enter into the Kingdom depends on how we respond to Him personally; He even called t

What we have is nothing of the sort. It's a good thing you didn't write any of the Bible. What a dull book it would be. I guess they were about to learn a thing or two, weren't they? Not

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13 hours ago, Cos said:

But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins

Matt 28:18: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth....

John 5:22: "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,..."

Hi Cos. See you are still battling on. These scriptures don't really need exposition do they?

By the way, I see you are referenced as female on the forum somewhere. Is that a fact or a misunderstanding? 

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On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

What we have is a strong statement of divine authority, and the context shows that it was a blasphemous assertion IF HE WAS NOT GOD!

What we have is nothing of the sort.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

He does not answer their charges with a "Hold on now! I am not claiming to be God! I am claiming something less!"--not at all!

It's a good thing you didn't write any of the Bible. What a dull book it would be.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The reaction of the scribes indicates the meaning they attached to his words: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

I guess they were about to learn a thing or two, weren't they? Not only can God do it - his Son can also.

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On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

One of the most striking features of the teachings of Jesus is that He was constantly talking about Himself. And to enter into the Kingdom depends on how we respond to Him personally; He even called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom”.

OK.

Also, Isaiah 9:6, Daniel 2:44, Daniel 7:14, as well as the interesting bit from Zechariah in regards to the Copper (Bronze/Brass) Mountains - in regards to what Jesus said in John 18:36.

We also have to remember that Jesus, the Messianic King, is God's chosen Christ and the one to be seated at the throne, or in this case, the throne of David (hence God's promise of a descendant of King David)

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

This self teaching of Jesus is one of the first things that set Jesus apart from the other religious teachers of the world. Jesus points people to Himself saying “I am the truth; follow me” No other founder of the world religions would dare say such a thing and expect to be taken seriously.

True, but you have to take into account of Jesus' very command to his Disciples, who in turn, to their students share this information with them as well, hence the early Christians, the early Church. We cannot be ignorant and ignore such things totally - for, it is in the very scriptures itself.

We must also take into account also that the Teachings of Jesus is not of his own, nor did it originate with him. Jesus, representative of the Father by means of Shaliah Principle, is the flesh, the man who teachings the Father's Spoken Word, for Jesus himself speaks the Word, that comes from the Father, hence him being in union with his God/Father in Heaven.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The personal pronouns that Jesus uses force us to pay attention.

"I am the bread of life…” (John 6:35)

"I am the light of the world…" (John 8:12)

"I am the resurrection and the life…”  (John 11:25)

The great question on Jesus’ teachings about Himself leads to Him asking, “Who do you say that I am?” (Matt. 16:15).

Jesus had such a strong opinion of Himself, it is not surprise that he should call people to Himself, “Come to me” and “Follow me”.

What needs to be taken into account is what the verses actually cross-reference to. Also, without further explanation I will just post them as is:

Cf to John 6:35

  • John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
  • John 7:37 - On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.
  • Revelation 22:17 - The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

Note: The very expression is used twice in scripture, we see it in this verse, 35, and we see it again in verse 48. In this context, life has an obvious reference, and it makes refers to everlasting/eternal life - John 6:40, 47, 54. In this discussion, Jesus refers to he  himself as the bread from heaven as we see in John 6:32, and in verse 33 we see the bread of God in John 6:33, and lastly, we see the living bread in John 6:51. We see that Jesus himself points out that the Israelites were given the manna as a source of food while in the wilderness, which we can clearly read here at Nehemiah 9:20. We also know that, if we are to be honest with ourselves to be aware of this passage, that this provided food, manna, did not sustain their lives for very long -  John 6:49. In comparison, the followers of the Christ, faithful and true, have the availability heavenly manna and or bread of life -  John 6:48-51, 58, which makes it totally possible for them to sustain their lives, thus living forever. They eat of this bread by exercising faith in the power that is redeeming in Jesus’ flesh and blood that he sacrificed.

Cf. John 8:12

  • Isaiah 9:2 - The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shone.
  • Isaiah 49:6 - he says: “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.”
  • Matthew 4:16 - the people dwelling in darkness have seen a great light, and for those dwelling in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned.”
  • John 1:5 - The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
  • John 1:9 - The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
  • John 12:35 - So Jesus said to them, “The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going.
  • John 12:46I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
  • 1 Peter 2:9 - But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
  • 1 John 2:8 - At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.

Note: Jesus, in regards to the main verse, is using a metaphor - the light of the world. He used it to describe he himself may have reminded his listeners about the four giant lamp stands in the Court of the Women:

The court of the women (Hebrew: עזרת הנשים‬ Ezrat HaNashim or עזרת נשים‬ Ezrat Nashim) was the outer forecourt of the Temples in Jerusalem into which women were permitted to enter. The court was also known as the "middle court," as it stood between the Court of the Gentiles and the court of Israel, i.e. the court of the men.

which were lit during the Festival of Booths , take a look at John 7:2. The light  illuminates the surroundings to a greatly and in addition, pertaining to what Jesus had said, light of the world, equals to passages from the foretells of Isaiah, of which spoken of a great light that would be seen by those dwelling in the land of deep shadow and that the one referred to as Jehovah's/Yahweh’s servant (Servant of Elohim/YHWH) would be a light of the nations - Isaiah 9:1, 2 and 42:1, 6 and 49:6. Now let us get on to the Sermon on the Mount. There, we learn that Jesus used the same metaphor when he addressed his followers, saying: You are the light of the world. - Matthew 5:14. That same expression fits smoothly like a puzzle piece in regards to Isaiah’s words about the Messiah, the man who is the Christ, Jesus, being a light of the nations. In Acts 13:46, 47, we learn that both Paul and Barnabas affirmed these prophetic words we see in Isaiah 49:6, practically a command to all followers of the Christ to continue to serve as a light to all the nations. Jesus’ preaching of the gospel and that of his followers would enlighten and show the people spiritually and rescue them from the likes of false religious and or accursed teachings.

Cf. John 11:25

Psalms 13:3 - Consider and answer me, O Lord my God; light up my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death,

Matthew 9:24 - he said, “Go away, for the girl is not dead but sleeping.” And they laughed at him.

Acts 7:59, 60 - And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6 - Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.

Note: This one is pretty straightforward, I am the resurrection and the life (also before this it is I know He will Rise and Fallen Asleep). Jesus’ own death and resurrection enabled that the dead can return to life. After Jesus was resurrected, His Father, Yahweh/Jehovah, granted him the power not only to resurrect those among the dead, but also to impart eternal life - John 5:26, for just like the Father who has this ability to do so in regards to giving life, he granted such to the Son also, hence what is said in this verse. At Revelations 1:18, Jesus calls himself  as the the living one, who has the keys of death and of the Hades (Sheol, Hell, Pit, etc.).Therefore, Jesus is indeed the hope of both the living and the dead. For Jesus promised to open up the tombs and give those in death one thing - life during the time of the new creation, in this case, the new heavens and the new earth whereas Jesus will do as such alongside those who will co-rule with him, under the rule by his heavenly government and the Messianic Kingdom.—John 5:28, 29 and  2 Peters 3:13.

Also we cannot forget, that Jesus had God given authority and power. We know this by reading Matthew 28:18:

  • And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

We also get to see it as such as it is referenced here, I believe last time we debated I mentioned this to you and rook, anyways, Ephesians 1:20:21 and Philippians 2:9, 10, which reads as follow:

Ephesians 1:20:21

Thanksgiving and Prayer

(20) that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, (21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Philippians 2:9, 10

Christ's Example of Humility

(9) Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, (10) so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The great question on Jesus’ teachings about Himself leads to Him asking, “Who do you say that I am?” (Matt. 16:15).

Jesus had such a strong opinion of Himself, it is not surprise that he should call people to Himself, “Come to me” and “Follow me”.

Actually in Matthew 16:15 he was covering with his disciples, to which he was talking about who the people think the Christ is whereas Peter made his response, since Peter was the only person to bring up said response on the following verse, 16 (Matthew 16:16).

His response as followed: Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

We also know that Jesus was also teaching a lesson to his disciples as well in the majority of this chapter, and into what the church actually is.

Summarized:

  • The Pharisees and Sadducees Demand Signs 1-4
  • The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees 5-12
  • Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ 13-20
  • Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection 21-23
  • Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus 24-28

Outlined:

  • Pharisees and Sadducees ask for a sign from heaven (16:1-4)
  • Jesus warns against leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees (16:5-12)
  • Peter identifies Jesus as the Christ (16:13-17)
  • Jesus gives Peter the keys of the Kingdom (16:18-20)
  • Jesus foretells his death and resurrection (16:21-23)
  • Requirements of true discipleship (16:24-28)
On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

Jesus offered Himself as someone in whom His contemporaries should put their faith in and to whom they should offer their love to. People are to believe in God – Jesus urged them that to have eternal life people are to believe in Him (John 3:36).

Yes, pretty straightforward to: One who exercises faith in the Son will get eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, pretty much not getting the reward that is eternal life, and in situation, they will instead have the wrath of God the Father upon them which will remain.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

So when we look at the biblical evidence for the true Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ one cannot help noticing Jesus’ own self-consciousness witness of Himself, in other words, His self-understanding…what did Jesus think and believe about Himself?

Shaliah Principle and that the Word of which Jesus peaks originates from the Father, for what Jesus does is because the Father is with him.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

Let’s have a look at what Jesus says about Himself and whether what He says reflects a consciousness of being Deity?

Keep in mind that what follows is NOT an exhaustive study, but just a brief expose of the topic.

OK.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

When the paralytic was lowered through the roof by his four friends, Jesus did not respond with a comment about the man’s physical condition or his need of healing. Rather, his initial comment was, “your sins are forgiven”. The reaction of the scribes indicates the meaning they attached to his words: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

What we have is a strong statement of divine authority, and the context shows that it was a blasphemous assertion IF HE WAS NOT GOD! Notice that He does not answer their charges with a "Hold on now! I am not claiming to be God! I am claiming something less!"--not at all!

We also cannot ignore Jesus immediate response after what was said in Mark 2:7. When such was said, we see that in the following verse, we read, Mark 2:8:

  • And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts?

By his spirit in himself  and or in his own mind - for Jesus, if we take into account what the Greek says, is in reference to Jesus’ perceptive abilities, in this sense. For he was quick to discern what was said. We also know more about this in regard to what Jesus was able to discern by means of thinking, reasoning, and motives of others - John 2:24, 25.

Plus those men, if you check for cross-references were referring to the laws of the land. This is why this very verse (Mark 2:7) points to 2 other verses we are aware of: John 10:33 and Acts 6:11:

  • John 10:33 - The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself a God.
  • Acts 6:11 - Then they secretly instigated men who said, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.

There is no question without a doubt that these men were not totally unaware of the laws of which they follow as well as knowing who their God and Father is, since we know in the laws of Moses how forgiveness of Sin went down, bu in the New Testament we know that Jesus, the Son of God, is capable of Forgiveness of Sin also, for we know what and who the Christ is and what is his role, so it is safe to say that these men themselves knew that Forgiveness of Sin requires things such a s burnt offerings and the like, but were obviously astounded by this man called Jesus.

Jesus was claiming to the law of the Jews if you are referring to what I think you are, no law indicates a man is and or a God, but rather, a god and or godlike for that is what the Most High had called his children in heaven, as well as on earth, as well as the Jews who abide by these laws, so the reaction of some is no surprise.

Anyways the continuation of Mark 2:9-12 it reads:

  • (9) Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? (10) But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— (11) “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.” (12) And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!” (see Matthew 9:33, John 7:31, and John 9:32)
On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The reaction of the Jews shows that they interpreted Jesus’ words that He was exercising the prerogative that belong to God alone (see Isa, 43:25). Here was an excellent opportunity for Jesus to correct the scribes if they had misunderstood the significance of His words. Note that He did not. In fact His response is highly enlightening for He goes on to claims that He has that prerogative of God, notice also how Jesus knew their thoughts; only God can know the thoughts of men (Acts 15:8; 2 Chron. 6:29; 1 Kings 8:38). More can be said but I’ll leave that for another time. <><

Yes, but we should be aware of the reaction itself and not think it to be something entirely different, for instance when Jesus quote what is written when the Jews wanted to stone him to death and the like, as well as their so called influence.

Also 2 Chronicles 6:29 speaks of a request for favors in regards to Solomon’s prayer of inauguration, 1 Kings 8:38 in regards to Solomon’s prayer of temple dedication, Isaiah 43:25 is in regards to a people bringing a case against each other. Other then that, it would have been wise to take a read at the references of Acts 15:8 on your part, which is correct, but those point to verses like 1 Chronicles 28:9 and Jeremiah 11:20 to name a few.

(I myself will double check the other ones, for they seem odd to be references in your response, but I agree with you on Acts 15:8 for it is, in the realm of hermeneutics, spot on and correct regarding God the Father, however, there are separate verses pertaining to how Jesus also having such ability in terms of reading one's heart, as well as those who acquire discernment and understanding - so I wouldn't say it is limited to God and or Jesus, per-say.)

Jesus can understand the thinking, reasoning and the though of men, just like his Father is able to do so as well as those with the ability of discernment to find understanding, something of which that is acquired by an obvious means.

I will quote myself from my previous response whereas the following is said: Jesus was able to discern by means of thinking, reasoning, and motives of others - John 2:24, 25.

The verses state the following:

Jesus Knows What Is in Man

  • (24) But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people (25) and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man.

Jesus has such an excellent ability to do as such because he was able to discern the thinking, reasoning, and motives of humans, in this regard, regardless of the sex, age, background, experience, status, etc. of said person. This was foretold by the prophet Isaiah, who spoke about the Messiah, for he said: "And the Spirit of the Lord [YHWH] shall rest upon him (A), the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord [YHWH]. And his delight shall be in the fear of the Lord [YHWH]. He shall not judge by what his eyes see, or decide disputes by what his ears hear," - Isaiah 11:2, 3.

  • [A] Isaiah 42:1, John 1:32, and Acts 10:38

We already seen this in action as to what Jesus' actions were in Mark 2:8, now lets take a look at Matthew 9:4, which reads:

  • But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts?

So it is safe to say how and why Jesus was able to discern such men who said such things, for the bible teaches such and it can be read in the very scriptures.

The truth has been given, do what you will with said truth.

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On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 6:15 AM, Gone Away said:

Matt 28:18: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth....

John 5:22: "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,..."

Hi Cos. See you are still battling on. These scriptures don't really need exposition do they?

By the way, I see you are referenced as female on the forum somewhere. Is that a fact or a misunderstanding? 

Hello Gone,

 

You changed your pseudonym I see, if you don’t mind I’ll just call you “Gone” from now on as it’s a lot easier, OK?

 

Firstly, I’m happy to hear that you are still following along on the other thread, stay tuned as there is much, much more evidence coming.

 

Like the names Jamie or Chris, my name can be applied to both sexes. So is the person calling me a sister correct? For me it really is irrelevant. You know I could also ask, because you hide under your own nom de plume, are you male or female? Does it really matter anyway?

 

Back to business; Jesus come as a man (John 1:14), and in doing so lay aside His former prerogatives (Phil. 2:6-8). This is clear from the Scriptures, Jesus is fully man, and therefore things such as authority must be given to one who is as much man as you and me. This is not in dispute.

 

But you missed the fact that Jesus does not deny the inner thoughts of the scribes, instead He claims that very privilege of God for Himself, and that is what my post is getting at. Remember Jesus called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom” and tells His contemporaries to put their faith in Him, and to Him they should offer their love. Bold words from someone you say is a creature. <><

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On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

What we have is nothing of the sort.

Mr. Harley

 

Please provide your reasoning for why you say that. I did! <><

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On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:59 AM, JW Insider said:

So we should think like the scribes?

Hello JW insider,

 

Did the scribes reason correctly is what you are getting at, right? As I told “Gone” the fact is Jesus does not deny their inner thoughts, He nowhere rebuffs what they were thinking, which He could have done. I hope that helps. <><

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Folks,

 

The Scriptures show that Jesus claimed other prerogatives of God as well. Jesus even made direct claims. We note, in examining the Gospels, that the claims become more explicit in the latter stages of His ministry. In the beginning He allowed the people to draw inferences about Him from the power of His moral teaching and His miracles. In the later portions, however, the focus is much more upon Himself.

 

In Matthew 25:31-46 He speaks of judging the world. He will sit on His glorious throne and divide the sheep from the goats. The power of judging the spiritual condition and assigning the eternal destiny of all people belongs to Him.

 

Certainly this is something which only God can exercise.

 

The authority which Jesus claimed and exercised is also clearly seen with respect to the Sabbath.

 

The sacredness of the Sabbath had been established by God (Exod. 20:8-11). Only God could abrogate or modify this regulation. Yet consider what happened when Jesus’ disciples picked heads of grain on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees objected that the Sabbath regulations (at least their version of them) were being violated.

 

Jesus responded by pointing out that David had violated one of the laws by eating of the bread reserved for the priests. Then, turning directly to the situation at hand, Jesus asserted: “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath; so the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27-28). He was clearly claiming the right to redefine the status of the Sabbath, a right which belongs only to God. <><

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Your assertions seem to lack logical and scriptural substance.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

Remember Jesus called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom” and tells His contemporaries to put their faith in Him, and to Him they should offer their love. Bold words from someone you say is a creature

Why would the boldness of these words have significance? And what connection does this have with nature of the one uttering such words?

David, a creature, who ruled in Jehovah's name and sat on Jehovah's throne referred to that Messianic kingdom as "my kingdom". (2Sam.3:28)

The Israelites put faith in Jehovah and in Moses, a creature, (Ex14:31) and this at the encouragement of Jehovah himself! (Ex.19:9)

Jehosaphat, a creature, encouraged the inhabitants of Jerusalem to put faith Jehovah's prophets , other creatures. (2Chr.20:20).

Peter, a creature, encouraged fellow Christians to have love for the whole association of brothers (creatures) which included himself. (1Pet.2:17)

And of course, the Lord Jesus made it clear that love for fellow Christians, creatures, which he exemplified, would identify his true followers. (John 13:34-35).

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On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, Cos said:

The Scriptures show that Jesus claimed other prerogatives of God as well. Jesus even made direct claims. We note, in examining the Gospels, that the claims become more explicit in the latter stages of His ministry. In the beginning He allowed the people to draw inferences about Him from the power of His moral teaching and His miracles. In the later portions, however, the focus is much more upon Himself.

You have to be more specific, otherwise this cannot be taken seriously. If I am not mistaken others have done miracles also and believed in the teachings that originated from the Father, which are indeed bible accounts and or passages, in addition to that, even false ones have been able to do the same thing in terms of so called miracles - we know this because of Matthew 24:24, which reads:

For false christs and false prophets (cf. Mt. 7:15, 2 Pe. 2:1) will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (cf. Mt. 7:22,23;2 Thess. 2:9)

On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, Cos said:

In Matthew 25:31-46 He speaks of judging the world. He will sit on His glorious throne and divide the sheep from the goats. The power of judging the spiritual condition and assigning the eternal destiny of all people belongs to Him.

Certainly this is something which only God can exercise.

  • Matthew 28:18 - God Given Authority and Power
  • Hebrews 1 - Jesus Christ having been exalted by God the Father

and several other verses, which have already been mentioned.

If God gave Jesus said authority, surely God the Father is capable of doing such also, which seems to be the case, expressed heavily in the Hebrew old Testament, for instance, God's authority and power in regards to the situation with Moses and the family of Korah, God's actions against those who do bad things, those who practice bad things, Ahaz for instance, and how by means of his authority and power, as well as applying His Justice, and the like - even to young Jews when they recite the Old Testament, they learn of who God is and what his Authority and Power entails, and such was a practice into the days of Jesus, after his death and even in present day.

In the same case, if the Boss of a company gave an very experienced employee the authority and power to hire and fire someone, change the shifts and tasks of someone, even down to pay raises and promotion, it does not make the experienced employee who has such a position higher than the Boss, who in turn, can and will do those things regardless, for he is, of course, the boss.

The same thing applies to God the Father, Yahweh/Jehovah to the Son, His Son, Jesus/Yehoshua.

On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, Cos said:

The authority which Jesus claimed and exercised is also clearly seen with respect to the Sabbath.

The sacredness of the Sabbath had been established by God (Exod. 20:8-11). Only God could abrogate or modify this regulation. Yet consider what happened when Jesus’ disciples picked heads of grain on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees objected that the Sabbath regulations (at least their version of them) were being violated.

And then what is a missed here is the mention of the New Covenant, which came into affect after the death of the Christ.

We know this because of what God had announced, by means of Shaliah Principle, by means of the prophet Jeremiah, that there would be a new covenant - Jeremiah 31:31-34; and Hebrew 8:13. Years later, on the basis of Christ’s death, the old covenant was canceled out, thus paving a way for the new one - Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:12; 9:15 and Ac 2:1-4.

God, our creator and Father in Heaven foretold this himself - we must not ignore The New Covenant.

On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, Cos said:

Jesus responded by pointing out that David had violated one of the laws by eating of the bread reserved for the priests. Then, turning directly to the situation at hand, Jesus asserted: “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath; so the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27-28). He was clearly claiming the right to redefine the status of the Sabbath, a right which belongs only to God. <><

What?

This is what these 2 verses means. Jesus uses and applies the expression (Lord of the Sabbath) to himself, we know this because of these verses:

Matthew 12:8 - For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:5 - And he said to them, “The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Which pertains to Mark 2:27 and 28.

With that knowledge, it is an indicating that the Sabbath was at his disposal, for the work he was commanded to do - a command that he followed of which the Father, his God, had commanded the Christ to do, we know this because of what we see here:

John 5:19 - So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

John 10:37, 38 - If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don't believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father."

And we know the teachings of Jesus was not of his own, but of the one who sent him, His God and Father in Heaven, as Jesus said in

John 14:10 - Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

On the Sabbath, Jesus performed some outstanding miracles, which included healing those who are sick - Luke 13:10-13, John 5:5-9, 9:1-14. This is a total foreshadowing of what he, Jesus Christ, will bring during His Kingdom rule, to a similar degree, like a sabbath rest:

Hebrews 10:1 - For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and He came to fulfill the law not break it.

Jesus and Disciples Pluck and Eat Grains on the Sabbath

The Law is concise about the Sabbath (Leviticus 23, Deuteronomy. 5) and makes a general statement not to work. Plucking grains on your neighbor's property was permitted by the Law (Deuteronomy 23). Reading the Law at face value, the disciples were not breaking Biblical law, but Rabbinical Law. Reaping is one activity forbidden on the Sabbath based on the Misna Shabbat.

David Eating the Showbread

Jesus states that David eating the showbread was unlawful, as it was lawful only for priests for eat the showbread regarding Biblical Law. One can either read this passage as Jesus then condoning breaking Biblical Law because David was hungry or that Jesus was highlighting the inconsistency of His opponents. Since Jesus came to fulfill the law and obeyed God in everything He did, it is more likely that the latter reading is accurate, especially considering how serious God took priestly matters.

With this interpretation, The Pharisees revered David and possibly did not condemn him for his eating of the showbread. Jesus asks then why they condemn Him and his disciples when they did not break the law.

Both King Saul and King Uzziah were punished by God for acting as priests. It is clear that God showed mercy on David in that situation. Nothing in Samuel indicates that David was esteeming himself as a priest by eating the showbread but rather eating due to hunger.

Priests Working on Sabbath

Jesus is speaking with hyperbole saying that the priests profaned the Sabbath by working on the Sabbath to point out that even all work was not forbidden on the Sabbath. The priests and Levites were assigned altar duties, and later in Numbers, God calls for a Sabbath offering - Numbers 28.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath

As Jesus often does in addressing others' questions or comments towards Him, He uses this situation to make a statement about Himself or the kingdom of God. Jesus declares that He is greater than the temple and is "Lord even of the Sabbath." Yet as Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus does not break the Law or condone breaking the Law. Jesus clearly had respect for the Law - Matthew 5:18.

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

In short:

  • Jesus and His disciples were not breaking Biblical law by plucking grains to eat and satisfy their hunger in the moment. The Sabbath law required some interpretation since it was general, and Jesus interpreted it as allowing the actions of Him and His disciples.
  • David's action was unlawful to eat the showbread, but he did claim to keep himself and men holy beforehand. God had mercy on David in this situation.
  • God permitted some types of work, priestly work, on the Sabbath, and even Rabbinical law accepted saving someone's life as permitted on the Sabbath, thus medical work for saving a life would be allowed by their strict interpretation.
  • Jesus states that He is greater than the Temple and Lord of the Sabbath, which only God can be. He is more capable of interpreting Sabbath law than the Pharisees.

Note: Regarding John 5:18, in the mind of the Pharisees, to them, Jesus was breaking the Sabbath , and John is informing us that at least that is their charge against Him, Jesus. In addition, pertaining to this verse we know about Jesus' healing on the Sabbath, in which, the Jews would help someone in need on the Sabbath, and that is what Jesus is doing exactly in John 5:18.

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On 4/25/2018 at 3:01 AM, Gone Away said:

Your assertions seem to lack logical and scriptural substance.

Why would the boldness of these words have significance? And what connection does this have with nature of the one uttering such words?

David, a creature, who ruled in Jehovah's name and sat on Jehovah's throne referred to that Messianic kingdom as "my kingdom". (2Sam.3:28)

The Israelites put faith in Jehovah and in Moses, a creature, (Ex14:31) and this at the encouragement of Jehovah himself! (Ex.19:9)

Jehosaphat, a creature, encouraged the inhabitants of Jerusalem to put faith Jehovah's prophets , other creatures. (2Chr.20:20).

Peter, a creature, encouraged fellow Christians to have love for the whole association of brothers (creatures) which included himself. (1Pet.2:17)

And of course, the Lord Jesus made it clear that love for fellow Christians, creatures, which he exemplified, would identify his true followers. (John 13:34-35).

When you tell someone something in one ear, it goes out the other. The same can be said when it comes to critical hermeneutics of bible scriptures.

Sadly people with this type of reasoning results in stuff like this - making those who read the bible and understand, and applying it, are made to look like a joke because of the actions of others, who also read the bible but are not up there in hermeneutics  and understanding, and or lack biblical understanding of things:

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    • Joshua 2 ---> 1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. 6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them. 7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper withersoever thou goest. 8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest. 10 Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying, 11 Pass through the host, and command the people, saying, Prepare you victuals; for within three days ye shall pass over this Jordan, to go in to possess the land, which the Lord your God giveth you to possess it. 12 And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to half the tribe of Manasseh, spake Joshua, saying, 13 Remember the word which Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, saying, The Lord your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land. 14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and help them; 15 Until the Lord have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the Lord your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the Lord's servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. 16 And they answered Joshua, saying, All that thou commandest us we will do, and whithersoever thou sendest us, we will go. 17 According as we hearkened unto Moses in all things, so will we hearken unto thee: only the Lord thy God be with thee, as he was with Moses. 18 Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.
    • 6 Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in. 2 And the Lord said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour. 3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days. 4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets. 5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him. 6 And Joshua the son of Nun called the priests, and said unto them, Take up the ark of the covenant, and let seven priests bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the Lord. 7 And he said unto the people, Pass on, and compass the city, and let him that is armed pass on before the ark of the Lord. 8 And it came to pass, when Joshua had spoken unto the people, that the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns passed on before the Lord, and blew with the trumpets: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord followed them. 9 And the armed men went before the priests that blew with the trumpets, and the rereward came after the ark, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets. 10 And Joshua had commanded the people, saying, Ye shall not shout, nor make any noise with your voice, neither shall any word proceed out of your mouth, until the day I bid you shout; then shall ye shout. 11 So the ark of the Lord compassed the city, going about it once: and they came into the camp, and lodged in the camp. 12 And Joshua rose early in the morning, and the priests took up the ark of the Lord. 13 And seven priests bearing seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the Lord went on continually, and blew with the trumpets: and the armed men went before them; but the rereward came after the ark of the Lord, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets. 14 And the second day they compassed the city once, and returned into the camp: so they did six days. 15 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they rose early about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times. 16 And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the Lord hath given you the city. 17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the Lord: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. 18 And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it. 19 But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: they shall come into the treasury of the Lord. 20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. 21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. 22 But Joshua had said unto the two men that had spied out the country, Go into the harlot's house, and bring out thence the woman, and all that she hath, as ye sware unto her. 23 And the young men that were spies went in, and brought out Rahab, and her father, and her mother, and her brethren, and all that she had; and they brought out all her kindred, and left them without the camp of Israel. 24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the Lord. 25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho. 26 And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the Lord, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it. 27 So the Lord was with Joshua; and his fame was noised throughout all the country.
    • As referenced in the Bible Book of Joshua
    • 19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. 4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. 9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. 10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. 12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: 13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it. 14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law. 15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. 17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. 18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. 21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. 22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. 23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; 25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. 26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. 27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord: 28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace. 29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt. 30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. 31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. 37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. 38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
    • 3 Now Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned twelve years. 2 And he wrought evil in the sight of the Lord; but not like his father, and like his mother: for he put away the image of Baal that his father had made. 3 Nevertheless he cleaved unto the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, which made Israel to sin; he departed not therefrom. 4 And Mesha king of Moab was a sheepmaster, and rendered unto the king of Israel an hundred thousand lambs, and an hundred thousand rams, with the wool. 5 But it came to pass, when Ahab was dead, that the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel. 6 And king Jehoram went out of Samaria the same time, and numbered all Israel. 7 And he went and sent to Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, saying, The king of Moab hath rebelled against me: wilt thou go with me against Moab to battle? And he said, I will go up: I am as thou art, my people as thy people, and my horses as thy horses. 8 And he said, Which way shall we go up? And he answered, The way through the wilderness of Edom. 9 So the king of Israel went, and the king of Judah, and the king of Edom: and they fetched a compass of seven days' journey: and there was no water for the host, and for the cattle that followed them. 10 And the king of Israel said, Alas! that the Lord hath called these three kings together, to deliver them into the hand of Moab! 11 But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the Lord, that we may enquire of the Lord by him? And one of the king of Israel's servants answered and said, Here is Elisha the son of Shaphat, which poured water on the hands of Elijah. 12 And Jehoshaphat said, The word of the Lord is with him. So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat and the king of Edom went down to him. 13 And Elisha said unto the king of Israel, What have I to do with thee? get thee to the prophets of thy father, and to the prophets of thy mother. And the king of Israel said unto him, Nay: for the Lord hath called these three kings together, to deliver them into the hand of Moab. 14 And Elisha said, As the Lord of hosts liveth, before whom I stand, surely, were it not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, I would not look toward thee, nor see thee. 15 But now bring me a minstrel. And it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him. 16 And he said, Thus saith the Lord, Make this valley full of ditches. 17 For thus saith the Lord, Ye shall not see wind, neither shall ye see rain; yet that valley shall be filled with water, that ye may drink, both ye, and your cattle, and your beasts. 18 And this is but a light thing in the sight of the Lord: he will deliver the Moabites also into your hand. 19 And ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree, and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones. 20 And it came to pass in the morning, when the meat offering was offered, that, behold, there came water by the way of Edom, and the country was filled with water. 21 And when all the Moabites heard that the kings were come up to fight against them, they gathered all that were able to put on armour, and upward, and stood in the border. 22 And they rose up early in the morning, and the sun shone upon the water, and the Moabites saw the water on the other side as red as blood: 23 And they said, This is blood: the kings are surely slain, and they have smitten one another: now therefore, Moab, to the spoil. 24 And when they came to the camp of Israel, the Israelites rose up and smote the Moabites, so that they fled before them: but they went forward smiting the Moabites, even in their country. 25 And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone, and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees: only in Kirharaseth left they the stones thereof; howbeit the slingers went about it, and smote it. 26 And when the king of Moab saw that the battle was too sore for him, he took with him seven hundred men that drew swords, to break through even unto the king of Edom: but they could not. 27 Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall. And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.
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