Jump to content

Brother Rando

Psalm 34:20 - "He is guarding all his bones; Not one of them has been broken."

Recommended Posts

In order for the following prophecy to be fulfilled, "He is guarding all his bones; Not one of them has been broken." (Psalm 34:20)  Which method of death is true?  A or B?

A or B..jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John 20 v 25 Thomas said :-

But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.” 

Now did Thomas know exactly how Jesus died ? Because he said Hands and Nails. Both of which are plural.

It would seem to me that the GB / Watchtower were just looking for another way to be different to Christendom. But they messed up by having the scripture as 'hands' and nails' :) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, the Greek word 'hélos' is translated a nail in singular.

    Hello guest!
 2247. hélos 
    Hello guest!

Strong's Concordance

hélos: a nail

Original Word: ἧλος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hélos
Phonetic Spelling: (hay'-los)
Definition: a nail
Usage: a nail.

😃

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

Actually, the Greek word 'hélos' is translated a nail in singular.

    Hello guest!
 2247. hélos 
    Hello guest!

Strong's Concordance

hélos: a nail

Original Word: ἧλος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hélos
Phonetic Spelling: (hay'-los)
Definition: a nail
Usage: a nail.

😃

So why in the New World Translation did they use, or the GB allow use of, the word NAILS = PLURAL ?

Deliberately confusing people ? Or, as i believe ,they are not guided by God's Holy Spirit, and they do not have a clue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you were polite you would have been given understanding and would have received forgiveness.  But your sin stands and will be counted.

Look at the picture above again.  Can one nail make two prints?  Look again at the placement so that no bone would be broken.  Do I have to show you an x-ray so you can decieve you own eyes? 

 

 

 

Wrist.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Brother Rando said:

If you were polite you would have been given understanding and would have received forgiveness.  But your sin stands and will be counted.

Look at the picture above again.  Can one nail make two prints?  Look again at the placement so that no bone would be broken.  Do I have to show you an x-ray so you can decieve you own eyes? 

 

 

 

Wrist.jpg

Wow, now you think you have been given authority to judge me. However you do not answer my question :) 

The GB either translated as such, or allowed to be translated as such, Nails plural and Hands plural. 

If they had thought it was one nail through the wrists I'm sure they would have said so in the NWT.. 

It's not terribly important but just shows another instance of Luke 16 v 10

 The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.

It shows that the GB are unfaithful and therefore unrighteous. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same ones who deny the prophecy at (

    Hello guest!
) have no understanding because they have already been Judged.  "Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." (
    Hello guest!
)

After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.  If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.” (

    Hello guest!
)

Prophecy fulfilled....  "Hear this, you foolish and senseless people: They have eyes but cannot see; They have ears but cannot hear." (

    Hello guest!
)

Hand Cuffs or Wrist Cuffs.jpg

Hand Cuffs or Wrist Cuffs?  Aren't the Hand Cuffs placed on the wrists to bind the (hands) in plural???  You stumbled yourself into Gehenna, but I won't allow you to stumble others... go on your way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

The same ones who deny the prophecy at (

    Hello guest!
) have no understanding because they have already been Judged.  "Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." (
    Hello guest!
)

After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.  If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.” (

    Hello guest!
)

Prophecy fulfilled....  "Hear this, you foolish and senseless people: They have eyes but cannot see; They have ears but cannot hear." (

    Hello guest!
)

Hand Cuffs or Wrist Cuffs.jpg

Hand Cuffs or Wrist Cuffs?  Aren't the Hand Cuffs on the wrists to bind the (hands) in plural???  You stumbled yourself into Gehenna, but I won't allow you to stumble others... go on your way.

Oh so you do think you have the right to judge me. Maybe you think you are anointed too... 

Dream on.

Any one of the anointed would never support the JW Org. The Child Abuse,  the misuse of scriptures. The false prophecies. 

The GB falsely claiming to be the Faithful and Discreet slave. the GB telling others of the anointed not to make contact with each other. 

The GB telling Elders that they can tell deliberate lies and claiming it is spiritual warfare. 

The GB / Elders threatening the congregants with disfellowshipping if the congregants dare question the GB's rules or decisions. 

What you have in reality is a dictatorship by the GB. Only now they are being shown up for who they really are.

God, who's name may be Yahweh or Jehovah, has given Jesus Christ the authority to judge. And it looks like the judgement has started within the 'household'.  I don't know if God will use the JW Org after cleansing it, or if He will wipe it out and use a different Org.  But God demands that His anointed servants be perfect. 

As for us earthly class, I don't think we were supposed to fully understand the scriptures. A scripture that says about' ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' and saying 'we will go with you people as we know God is with you people' (not exactly quoted but near enough to get the meaning). I know that the 'Jew' means spiritual Jew, but it would refer to the whole anointed not just your 8 men in America. 

You may well be guided but its not by God's Holy spirit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exposing your demonic denial of the prophecy at (

    Hello guest!
) has been a pleasure. 
    Hello guest!
  The demons love making people deaf and dumb to the truth which has been rendered onto you.  I was waiting for you to blaspheme against Holy Spirit to expose and count your sin publicly. 

Your quote: "You may well be guided but its not by God's Holy spirit.

After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.  If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.” (

    Hello guest!
)  Therefore, your sin has been retained and there is no escape for you.  Dying the second death is an everlasting destruction and one that begins with the weeping and gnashing of teeth.  "And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."  (Matthew 12:32)

come.come.wolf.jpg

Changing the subject because you been pummeled doesn't get you any points.  Consider Yourself Disfellowshipped..... you're not coming back legion....  no matter how hard you try... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

Exposing your demonic denial of the prophecy at (

    Hello guest!
) has been a pleasure. 
    Hello guest!
  The demons love making people deaf and dumb to the truth which has been rendered onto you.  I was waiting for you to blaspheme against Holy Spirit to expose and count your sin publicly. 

Your quote: "You may well be guided but its not by God's Holy spirit.

After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.  If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.” (

    Hello guest!
)  Therefore, your sin has been retained and there is no escape for you.  Dying the second death is an everlasting destruction and one that begins with the weeping and gnashing of teeth.  "And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."  (Matthew 12:32)

come.come.wolf.jpg

Changing the subject because you been pummeled doesn't get you any points.  Consider Yourself Disfellowshipped..... you're not coming back legion....  no matter how hard you try... 

You are one very sick person, you need medical help. 

You don't even know what it means to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

Like I've said dream on. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

 

Apparently so do many here. Especially those that claim they are in search for the truth, all while their hearts have become stone.

In ancient times, the wrist was considered part of the hand, or an extension of the hand. Simply feeling your own wrist will give a misunderstood conclusion that many have. The wrist is actually the 7-8 bones back area of the hand, not the area that is commonly associated between the hand and Ulna and Radius bones. Does this mean nails weren’t used? The body weight of a heavy person could sheer off so a rope was used.

Instead of viewing the nail in the void between the ulna and radius, go up about a centimeter or 2 to a little void right up to the hand. Then both inferences of hands and wrist by Christian and non-Christian writers are correct. What is not correct, the depiction of Christ nailed by the PALM.

The argument about, when the cross beam was used in Ancient Rome is the only viable discussion for debate.

Once again as indicated by James Thomas Rook. Drivel is irrelevant. Ad-holmium attacks are less relevant.

However, Rando, don’t look for civility from those that have openly dissociated themselves from the truth in search for areas to prove the Watchtower wrong, rather than satisfy a lingering discontent in their own personal lives. The devil work is never done. With some, given the chance, child abuse has become a thorn on their side. Numbers 33:55 I guess satisfaction won’t be achieved until they drive the Watchtower out of their lands. Russia succeeded, whose next to hear the shouts of, crucify them! With people from the inside supporting them, saying yes! Crucify them!

A sad event that plague’s us all, and has become a banner of hate (T) for others.

The context in John is often misunderstood. While some disciples were giving John an account of Jesus death, John was claiming UNLESS I SEE IT, I WILL NEVER BELIEVE IT. This is a denial by John, Christ had been killed in such a way. However, what did Jesus tell Thomas 8 days later? BELIEVE. Not only had Christ been killed in such a disgraceful way but had arisen.

What would a modern man say when confronted with such a supernatural event with the disbelief of modern times. Most likely, I drank too much, I took too many pills, I don’t believe what my eyes are seeing, DENIAL.

All except for Mormon Joseph Smith apparently.

KID you have been trained well by the GB and their JW Org. 

Picking parts of quotes to make yourself look good and make others look bad

But of course everyone on here can look back on the topic and see why i said what i said. Whereas you try to mislead people.

So do you agree with Rando and I quote him  You stumbled yourself into Gehenna, but I won't allow you to stumble others... go on your way. ... Therefore, your sin has been retained and there is no escape for you.....  Consider Yourself Disfellowshipped..... you're not coming back legion....  no matter how hard you try...  

There you are Kid, Rando at his best don't you think. And you agree with him ? You think he has been given that authority ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/5/2017 at 5:08 AM, Brother Rando said:

In order for the following prophecy to be fulfilled, "He is guarding all his bones; Not one of them has been broken." (Psalm 34:20)  Which method of death is true?  A or B?

Another new topic on the same subject already debated a hundred times?

What does it matter, the way he died? Can we move on?

Because there are only Jehovah's Witnesses to make a fuss about this.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2018 at 7:53 PM, Brother Rando said:

The same ones who deny the prophecy at (

    Hello guest!
) have no understanding because they have already been Judged.  "Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." (
    Hello guest!
)

After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.  If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.” (

    Hello guest!
)

Prophecy fulfilled....  "Hear this, you foolish and senseless people: They have eyes but cannot see; They have ears but cannot hear." (

    Hello guest!
)

Hand Cuffs or Wrist Cuffs.jpg

Hand Cuffs or Wrist Cuffs?  Aren't the Hand Cuffs placed on the wrists to bind the (hands) in plural???  You stumbled yourself into Gehenna, but I won't allow you to stumble others... go on your way.

Actually, the handcuffs bind the wrists, not the hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2018 at 1:26 AM, Brother Rando said:

Actually, the Greek word 'hélos' is translated a nail in singular.

    Hello guest!
 2247. hélos 
    Hello guest!

Strong's Concordance

hélos: a nail

Original Word: ἧλος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hélos
Phonetic Spelling: (hay'-los)
Definition: a nail
Usage: a nail.

😃

Really, the word used is hēlōn (ἥλων). hélos (ἧλος) is a nail. Now, I am not speaking greek, but couldn't be that hēlōn is the plural of hélos?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have made some research, and found that:

ήλος is singular, as you said, Rando.

ήλων is plural.

    Hello guest!

So, Thomas is speaking about nailS.

It is not honest to take what suits us and change the word of God.

The Watchtower is not consequent in that matter. Sometime they mention nail, other time nails.

    Hello guest!
: Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands.

    Hello guest!
: his hands being held, one upon the other, until the spike punctured and tore through the flesh

Now I think that will put an end to that story and that we can move on to something more important. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Baruq JW said:

I have made some research, and found that:

ήλος is singular, as you said, Rando.

ήλων is plural.

    Hello guest!

So, Thomas is speaking about nailS.

It is not honest to take what suits us and change the word of God.

The Watchtower is not consequent in that matter. Sometime they mention nail, other time nails.

    Hello guest!
: Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands.

    Hello guest!
: his hands being held, one upon the other, until the spike punctured and tore through the flesh

Now I think that will put an end to that story and that we can move on to something more important. 

It does not put an end as to why the GB / JW Org / WT put the picture in the Bible Teach book with one nail through the wrist. 

And I think you yourself said it was NAILS = PLURAL 

So it seems the W/t  GB, JW Org have no idea what they themselves believe. 

And is it also showing that Rando as being a deliberate lier ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And is it also showing that Rando as being a deliberate lier ?

Who am I to say that Rando is a deliberate lier? I cannot judge, I don't know him personally.  It may be that he speaks in good faith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It does not put an end as to why the GB / JW Org / WT put the picture in the Bible Teach book with one nail through the wrist

They said that "This is only an artist’s conception"

    Hello guest!

Maybe they don't believe it themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Similar Content

    • Guest Kurt
      By Guest Kurt
      Was Jesus Crucified on a Cross NO..mp4
       
    • By Anna
      Maybe this is not completely relevant to the discussion, but has anyone noticed in today's WT study (WT January2017 ) the illustration of Jesus on the stake, with the nails going through his wrists rather than through the palm of his hands? I haven't noticed this before, perhaps we have always drawn it this way and I just didn't pay enough attention. I remember reading somewhere some technicalities about the actual physical possibilities or impossibilities, and one argument was that the victim could not be nailed to a stake through the hands as the weight of the body would rip through the palms (sorry, this is so morbid) and the only way it could be through the palms is if the downward weight was distributed with the arms tied to a cross beam and the then the palms nailed (I guess for added anguish). In any case, when Thomas needed confirmation of Jesus' resurrection he said at John 20:25 .....“Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.” Is this a case of a broad usage for "hand"? And could it mean anything from the fingers to the wrists, including the wrists? In some languages the translation of hand can be a little confusing because it can also mean the whole arm in another language. Only the context can give a clue as to what is meant, whether it is a hand, and arm, the forearm or the whole arm including the hand...This also got me to thinking about the translation of stauros, could that also encompass  not just a vertical beam but some horizontal beams?
    • By Ann O'Maly
      The following post quotes originally came from this thread: 
      Rather than take the thread totally off topic, I thought I would make some comments in a new one.
      I'm commenting on this post, likewise not to create a firestorm, but to flag up how we ought to check sources of information rather than automatically taking on trust that what is written is sound.
      Regarding information on the internet, the August 15, 2011 Watchtower put forward some criteria by which we can critically assess its factuality:
      "Before trusting it, ask: (1) Who published this material? What are the author’s credentials? (2) Why was this published? What motivated the writer? Is there any bias? (3) Where did the author get the information? Does he supply sources that can be checked? (4) Is the information current?" - p. 4 
      It's good practice to apply these basic principles to anything we read - even material produced by the Organization. 
      It's also worth remembering Christians do not claim Jesus was executed on a crux ansata or ankh-shaped cross (think of the practical problems for a start). But let's look at how the Reasoning book approaches the wider question of whether Jesus was executed on a cross at all.
       
      "(2) ... Is there any bias?"
      Absolutely. The Reasoning book's quote from the Imperial Bible Dictionary is chopped up, and omits key information that would allow the reader to understand that, while stauros originally had one meaning, by the time of Jesus the word had evolved and was understood differently. The omitted parts from the quote are in red.
      "The Greek word for cross, [stau·ros′], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek-speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part."
      The quote continues to cite Seneca's (4 BC-65 AD) eye-witness testimony about 3 different kinds of crucifixion regularly employed, the last of which was where the victim's arms were extended on a patibulum. The dictionary then adds:
      "There can be no doubt, however, that the latter sort was was the more common, and that about the period of the gospel age crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood." - p. 376
      You can read the Imperial Bible Dictionary article for yourself here:

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. So why do Watch Tower publications show Jesus on a stake with hands over his head instead of on the traditional cross? Reading an extended quote from the Imperial Bible Dictionary makes the reason for Watchtower's divergence on this matter unclear.
      There's no problem with this section as crosses were made of wood from trees. Not only that, but trees had branches upon which arms could be outstretched either side of the body, above it, upside-down or however the executioner wanted to position the poor victim. 
      Of course, the Org. no longer translates Jesus' mode of execution as 'impaling' because, well, he wasn't impaled; he was suspended from a stauros by being nailed to it. Impaling is an entirely different kind of torturous end. 
      This reference, then, doesn't help explain why Watch Tower publications depict Jesus on an upright stake either.
      "(1) ... What are the author’s credentials? ... (3) Where did the author get the information? Does he supply sources that can be checked? (4) Is the information current?" 
      Not only is this another outdated source, but psychical research enthusiast J.D. Parsons does not provide references for his comments here (
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ). Historical, linguistic and gospel evidence contradicts him. It's a pity he didn't consult works like the Imperial Bible Dictionary before he wrote his book. "(3) Where did the author get the information? Does he supply sources that can be checked? (4) Is the information current?" 
      This is another old work, this time one edited by E.W. Bullinger. Appendix No. 162 does supply some sources, but it also repeats some of Alexander Hislop's and others' mistaken ideas, e.g. the Babylonian sun-god cross. Not only that, but Bullinger (or whoever the author of Appendix No. 162 was) was evidently unaware of the Oxyrhyncus discoveries which showed that the understanding of stauros as being a two-pieced cross shape occurred in 2nd (and possibly 1st) century Christian writings.
      See the Companion Bible entry here:
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. In fact, many of these old publications the Org. uses as support, and that are contemporaneous with one another, seem to feed off each other's sources, regurgitating them in their own works. The Two Babylons was published in book form in 1858. It's always good to keep this in mind when reading older references after that time because it often influenced other theologians' work - especially if their theology was less mainstream. Vine's Expository Dictionary's entry on 'Cross' is another notable example (see below).
      That's assuming that all the available evidence has been presented to the Reasoning book reader. As we've seen, it hasn't but has been cherry-picked from flawed, out-of-date works, which often recycle the same sources, in order to force a predetermined conclusion. When we dig into those sources a little deeper, we find that Watchtower's rejection of the cross and adoption of an upright stake to depict Jesus' execution is based on insubstantial grounds. If we research the subject more thoroughly, although we will never be certain what shape stauros Jesus died on, we will find that the weight of evidence indicates the opposite view to that of the Organization. 
       
      What does this have to do with how Christians regard the cross? Cross shapes occur in different cultures, times and contexts. Whatever significance non-Christians placed on cross shapes (4 cardinal points, 4 year markers, 4 key stages in the Sun's apparent seasonal or daily paths around the Earth, circle of life, etc.) has nothing to do with any symbolism Christians attach to the cross Jesus was believed to have been executed on.
      "(2) ... Is there any bias? (3) Where did the author get the information? Does he supply sources that can be checked? (4) Is the information current?"
      Vine's comment about the two-beamed cross's Chaldean origin actually came from Hislop (Two Babylons, p. 197-8). It is false. 
      Hislop was rabidly anti-Catholic and grasping at anything to discredit it, no matter how outlandish. However, in doing so, he was undermining aspects of biblical Christianity too. So, yes, one could say he was biased - so much so that he imagined ancient pagan-Catholic connections everywhere. He provides no historical evidence that the Babylonian god Tammuz was represented by a Tau and besides, the Babylonians didn't write in Greek! Their writing was logographic and the signs for Tammuz (Dumuzi) don't look anything like crosses. 

       
      On the other hand, the Paleo-Hebrew script has a letter tav. Guess what it looks like:

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. # Shocking, hey?
      "(3) Where did the author get the information? Does he supply sources that can be checked? (4) Is the information current?"
      Again, a 19th/early 20th century work. Tyack doesn't provide any sources for his statements. However the concepts seem to be from the Two Babylons book. These connections between the cross and Tammuz plus other ancient near eastern deities don't go back beyond the 1850s and Hislop's book - not that I've been able to trace, anyway.
      Around and around we go. This information is straight out of Two Babylons! Look:

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Please pay particular notice to the references in the footnotes on that page.
      I'll post separately about all those cross symbols and the conclusions Hislop jumps to.
      Again, what does this have to do with how Christians view the cross Jesus is believed to have died on? 
      This is a quote from the same Bullinger work discussed above.
      Now, this is a whole different issue.
      And is it a matter of degree? Remember how obsessed many JWs are nowadays with the JW.org logo, maybe because of its associations in the JW's mind with true worship, brotherhood, divine blessings, etc. They put it on anything from tiepins to cake. Likewise, many Christians associate the cross with Jesus' love for humankind, victory over death/Satan, hope, etc., and so they like to have a symbolic reminder of that or use it as a visible expression of their faith. I guess it depends on whether one considers a line has been stepped over between expression of faith and worshipful veneration, and there is a certain level of subjectivity in that assessment.
      Here we go again. An allusion to Hislopian baloney.
      And an upright stake is NOT phallic?
      'Some commentators' - who? The Reasoning book doesn't enlighten us.
      While I agree that idolatry is against biblical principles, the Org's reluctance to entertain at least the possibility that Jesus historically died on a cross is based on deeply flawed, outdated, and circular reasoning.
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Regarding Hislop's discussion of various cross shapes on p. 197 of the Two Babylons book:
      Fig. 43 shows 5 different cross shapes.
      No. 1 is the familiar crucifix shape and comes from Kitto's Biblical Cyclopedia, Vol. 1, p. 495 (viewable online - as with all of these references, just Google). This reference is just a discussion of 'Cross' and Lipsius' various pictures/descriptions of this means of execution.
      No. 2 is similar to No. 1 but slanted. The pic comes from Sir W. Betham's Etruria, Vol. 1, p. 54 (viewable online). This references the Etruscan alphabet. Hislop's picture is just one of the letters he's picked out.
      No. 3 is like No. 1 except with a slightly curved crosspiece. This is from Bunsen's Egypt's Place in Universal History, Vol. 1, p. 450 (viewable online). Hislop's picture is one of the Coptic letters of the alphabet - a tei. He doesn't bother with the other cross-shaped letters in the Coptic alphabet on pp. 448-450 - not even the tau on p. 449!
      No. 4 is similar to an ankh. Hislop thinks it's a cross (the sign of Tammuz) attached to the circle of the sun (p. 198). He provides no reference for this one.
      No. 5 is a cross within a circle. This is used as another example of Tammuz being associated with the sun and the picture comes from Stephen's Incidents of Travel in Central America, Vol. 2, p. 344, Plate 2 (viewable online) where an indigenous person's belt is decorated with the symbol.
      Hislop uses these sources and cobbles together isolated cross symbols - an instrument of execution, letters of the Etruscan and Coptic alphabets, an ankh and the belt decoration of a Central American Indian. These all form the basis of his argument that,
      a) The Christian cross is not a Christian emblem.
      (He only establishes that cross shapes occur in all sorts of places and contexts.)
      b) The cross originates from the mystic Tau of the Chaldeans and Egyptians.
      (An unsupported assertion pulled out of the air - none of his examples are linked to Chaldea.)
      c) The letter T is "the initial letter of Tammuz - which, in Hebrew, [is] radically the same as ancient Chaldee" (p. 197).
      (It's already been discussed on this thread that, while Paleo-Hebrew indeed has a cross-shaped Tav, the Babylonians wrote in cuneiform and their logographic signs making up the word Dumuzi/Tammuz do not resemble a cross.)
      d) Tammuz was identified with the sun.
      (Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of Babylonian deities knows that Shamash was the god identified with the sun and Marduk may also have had solar connections - not Tammuz. Tammuz was a shepherd-god of agriculture, fertile lands, food and vegetation.)
      Hislop's conclusions about how the Christian cross originates in Babylonian worship are therefore founded on ... nothing.
    • By Jack Ryan
      "The story of God" shows His blood trickle down through the rocks into Adam giving him life.
      What was the origin of this teaching?




  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Posts

  • Topics

  • Members

    • TrueTomHarley

      TrueTomHarley 3,698

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • 4Jah2me

      4Jah2me 471

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • JW Insider

      JW Insider 4,997

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Arauna

      Arauna 1,425

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • jpl

      jpl 18

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
  • Recent Status Updates

    • Claud's Lst  »  misette

      Bonjour Misette comment ça va. Merci beaucoup pour ton travail que tu as fait et continue de faire. 
      Nous avons pas reçu le joyau pour cette semaine, dis nous si il y a un problème. 
      Merci que Jéhovah continue de te benir. 
      · 1 reply
    • Isabella

      Good ideas 
       

      · 0 replies
    • 4Jah2me  »  Srecko Sostar

      Hi Srecko. I hope you can see this photo. This is my daily driving car. It is outside a Dance Studio where  I have danced and hope to go dancing again, John 

      · 2 replies
    • Tennyson  »  Queen Esther

      Hello my sister, i have not head from you long sice. I hope you are wel. Hope to hear from you soon. Agape.
      · 0 replies
    • Doryseeker  »  4Jah2me

      *** it-2 p. 7 Jehovah ***
      The Codex Leningrad B 19A, of the 11th century C.E., vowel points the Tetragrammaton to read Yehwahʹ, Yehwihʹ, and Yeho·wahʹ. Ginsburg’s edition of the Masoretic text vowel points the divine name to read Yeho·wahʹ. (Ge 3:14, ftn) Hebrew scholars generally favor “Yahweh” as the most likely pronunciation. They point out that the abbreviated form of the name is Yah (Jah in the Latinized form), as at Psalm 89:8 and in the expression Ha·lelu-Yahʹ (meaning “Praise Jah, you people!”). (Ps 104:35; 150:1, 6) Also, the forms Yehohʹ, Yoh, Yah, and Yaʹhu, found in the Hebrew spelling of the names Jehoshaphat, Joshaphat, Shephatiah, and others, can all be derived from Yahweh. Greek transliterations of the name by early Christian writers point in a somewhat similar direction with spellings such as I·a·beʹ and I·a·ou·eʹ, which, as pronounced in Greek, resemble Yahweh. Still, there is by no means unanimity among scholars on the subject, some favoring yet other pronunciations, such as “Yahuwa,” “Yahuah,” or “Yehuah.”
      Since certainty of pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems to be no reason for abandoning in English the well-known form “Jehovah” in favor of some other suggested pronunciation. If such a change were made, then, to be consistent, changes should be made in the spelling and pronunciation of a host of other names found in the Scriptures: Jeremiah would be changed to Yir·meyahʹ, Isaiah would become Yeshaʽ·yaʹhu, and Jesus would be either Yehoh·shuʹaʽ (as in Hebrew) or I·e·sousʹ (as in Greek). The purpose of words is to transmit thoughts; in English the name Jehovah identifies the true God, transmitting this thought more satisfactorily today than any of the suggested substitutes.
      *** it-2 p. 7 Jehovah ***
      The Codex Leningrad B 19A, of the 11th century C.E., vowel points the Tetragrammaton to read Yehwahʹ, Yehwihʹ, and Yeho·wahʹ. Ginsburg’s edition of the Masoretic text vowel points the divine name to read Yeho·wahʹ. (Ge 3:14, ftn) Hebrew scholars generally favor “Yahweh” as the most likely pronunciation. They point out that the abbreviated form of the name is Yah (Jah in the Latinized form), as at Psalm 89:8 and in the expression Ha·lelu-Yahʹ (meaning “Praise Jah, you people!”). (Ps 104:35; 150:1, 6) Also, the forms Yehohʹ, Yoh, Yah, and Yaʹhu, found in the Hebrew spelling of the names Jehoshaphat, Joshaphat, Shephatiah, and others, can all be derived from Yahweh. Greek transliterations of the name by early Christian writers point in a somewhat similar direction with spellings such as I·a·beʹ and I·a·ou·eʹ, which, as pronounced in Greek, resemble Yahweh. Still, there is by no means unanimity among scholars on the subject, some favoring yet other pronunciations, such as “Yahuwa,” “Yahuah,” or “Yehuah.”
      Since certainty of pronunciation is not now attainable, there seems to be no reason for abandoning in English the well-known form “Jehovah” in favor of some other suggested pronunciation. If such a change were made, then, to be consistent, changes should be made in the spelling and pronunciation of a host of other names found in the Scriptures: Jeremiah would be changed to Yir·meyahʹ, Isaiah would become Yeshaʽ·yaʹhu, and Jesus would be either Yehoh·shuʹaʽ (as in Hebrew) or I·e·sousʹ (as in Greek). The purpose of words is to transmit thoughts; in English the name Jehovah identifies the true God, transmitting this thought more satisfactorily today than any of the suggested substitutes.
       
      · 1 reply
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      62,823
    • Total Posts
      122,587
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      16,660
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    IPS Temp Admin
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.